why are minion drops so rare?

I think it's safe to say doing anything in this game is pointless, as it will be made much easier if you just wait instead lol. They should be encouraging people to play, not discouraging them.

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Originally Posted by zosia

So, there should be nothing worth working for in this game?

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I wasn't saying they should be easy to get, just replying to "Were there really any minions out of reach for most players"

Nutkin is out of reach of most players already, with verminion it will be much worse. I have done a few thousand Toadskin or higher maps, and about a hundred green maps from those, with 1 nutkin drop. A fraction of a percent drop from an 18 hour lockout isn't in reach of most players.

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Originally Posted by zosia

"I can finally have stuff because I am too lazy to work for it."

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/22884577.jpg

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So increasing droprates equates to them handing things out for free now, and mashing your head against a wall of rng qualifies as work?

What?

Still haven't seen the baby opo-opo drop :(.

Drop Rates suck, what else is new? Not like its guaranteed after the 30th run to get it. If there was a system to give you an item you never achieved from a level just to give it to you after completing the dungeon a certain amount of times that would be sweet, but who'd want that? I'd rather have my 5% chance split among 3 other party members. :/

I love collecting minions and worked hard to get the ones I have. I don't understand why a buff like this is needed for minions that aren't untradable. You may not get one from the dungeon RNG or win one from a roll even it it does show up, but you can buy most of them off the mb. You can also 2 man most of the older dungeons unsynced with i180-190 gear. Now WoD and other CT content that is no longer run as frequent...sure buff that drop rate or at least make them tradable.

For those that say you can't afford the mb prices:
level a retainer. (botany, miner, or battle)
send them on ventures (supplied from hunt or GC seals) for crafting mats (check you mb for things selling well. ie: gc turn ins, anything that is in a red scrips recipe).
put on sale.
Profit. (you can make over a 100k a day usually with very little actual work)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

I wasn't saying they should be easy to get, just replying to "Were there really any minions out of reach for most players"

Nutkin is out of reach of most players already, with verminion it will be much worse.

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because farming 5m gil is an impossible task? get one gatherer to 60 and you have it in less than 1 week if you gather the usefull stuff (adamantite, porcini, whatever)

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Originally Posted by zosia

well, there goes that. Were there really any minions out of reach for most players other than plushie and OST promo ones?


INC flood of all dungeon minions from heavensward, time to kick yourself for spending any gil on a minion before this change.

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I had to get my Swedish buddy to buy the Carbuncle because NA store has been out forever.

Cin is bff forever.

You aren't making 100k a day on a battle class retainer unless you have RNGesus on your side or can send them out every hour on the hour.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

I had to get my Swedish buddy to buy the Carbuncle because NA store has been out forever.

Cin is bff forever.

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eBay, found a seller in Japan who is selling both carbuncles. I'm in Australia so there is no hope of me getting it any other way XD.

LoL at people saying "you need to work for it!" with something RNG related. One person will get it on the first go, man, he sure worked hard for it. Another won't see it even after 1000 runs. He should just shut up and work harder for it, the filthy freeloader! Give me a break. RNG is not, never was and never will be hard or difficult. It is dumb luck and nothing else, completely independant of and unrelated to any actual work or effort you put in the game. Nobody is 'special' for having a rare minion, nor is anyone 'impressed' by you having one. It doesn't mean you're skilled at the game at all. It means you just had dumb luck and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

LoL at people saying "you need to work for it!" with something RNG related. One person will get it on the first go, man, he sure worked hard for it. Another won't see it even after 1000 runs. He should just shut up and work harder for it, the filthy freeloader! Give me a break. RNG is not, never was and never will be hard or difficult. It is dumb luck and nothing else, completely independant of and unrelated to any actual work or effort you put in the game. Nobody is 'special' for having a rare minion, nor is anyone 'impressed' by you having one. It doesn't mean you're skilled at the game at all. It means you just had dumb luck and nothing else.

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you don't need good rng to get most of these rare minions, just enough sense to buy them over fighting rng.

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Originally Posted by zosia

you don't need good rng to get most of these rare minions, just enough sense to buy them over fighting rng.

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And that equals hard work how?

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

And that equals hard work how?

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my point exactly, it is hardly hard work. You can make 1-2 mil a day easily, there is no reason to make minions have a higher drop chance. Glad we agree.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We’re planning to increase the rate in which you can obtain some of the rarer minions, so players can also use them to further enjoy Lord of Verminion in Patch 3.1.

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could you please make the CT minions guaranteed at least ? Since we can't trade them, it would be nice to at least not fight RNG to see them drop THEN on the dice roll. Not even counting the awful queues to enter the instance.

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Originally Posted by zosia

my point exactly, it is hardly hard work. You can make 1-2 mil a day easily, there is no reason to make minions have a higher drop chance. Glad we agree.

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So the truth comes out. You are against increasing drop rate because you won't be able to sell them for milllions after.

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Originally Posted by zosia

my point exactly, it is hardly hard work. You can make 1-2 mil a day easily, there is no reason to make minions have a higher drop chance. Glad we agree.

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And since it's not hard work, increasing the drop rates won't affect the hard work needed to get the minions either, since neither way to get them equals hard work, increasing the drop rates just makes both roads equally less tedious. Glad we've reached an understanding.

Honestly, if it works the way they usually do it with "easing of content", then they'll make most of the minions we can get now a lot easier to obtain and then have the newer/newest ones still be difficult to get. Depending on how long they wait until they actually make it easier and how long it'll take to obtain those minions, it could be pretty balanced. You'd reap the rewards of having a strong, new minion early and then later on down the line when there's a new hot minion set all the people that didn't work toward that previously good minion can get it easier.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

because farming 5m gil is an impossible task? get one gatherer to 60 and you have it in less than 1 week if you gather the usefull stuff (adamantite, porcini, whatever)

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There weren't even any Nutkins listed on the MB on my server the last time I looked. If I do see one (rarely) there's only ever one at a time.

Was about to goof on the people that care so much about minions but then I remembered I spent a crazy amount of time collecting cards in FFVIII even tho most of them would go unused

There is no long term goal if players just stop trying and ignore the pets!
There is no handing over and even then with the old dungeons where it always was in one chest you had to roll against others!
Collecting doesnt mean to gather the rarest things or to show who is better, its to get a Set of a certain thing...
To make it rare is only for "sellers" and not for "collectors"...
There is no meaning in making it too hard to get because it will not increase motivation to run older dungeons, it will decrease motivation to ever make that dungeon again when it finally dropped...
Worse: You have to force friends to come along the same old boring dungeon over and over again just that YOU getting an item - they will like you for that...

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We’re planning to increase the rate in which you can obtain some of the rarer minions, so players can also use them to further enjoy Lord of Verminion in Patch 3.1.

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Please leave them be..... Let people want things and NOT get them just because they decided to show up and do the event. Stop making participation prizes and start making things people lust after. The whole point of taking pride in having rarer minions is that they are RARE. If everyone had them then what is the point? Which is essentially much of the frustration with this game. Just because you do it doesn't mean you should get something for it, you should get a chance yes, much like ponies, but it definitely shouldn't be a high one. It makes all the frustration with wanting the ponies a far better pay off when they actually get them.

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

And since it's not hard work, increasing the drop rates won't affect the hard work needed to get the minions either, since neither way to get them equals hard work, increasing the drop rates just makes both roads equally less tedious. Glad we've reached an understanding.

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You point rest on a terrible premise that increasing drops rates will have no effect on prices. Good try though.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

Please leave them be..... Let people want things and NOT get them just because they decided to show up and do the event. Stop making participation prizes and start making things people lust after. The whole point of taking pride in having rarer minions is that they are RARE. If everyone had them then what is the point? Which is essentially much of the frustration with this game. Just because you do it doesn't mean you should get something for it, you should get a chance yes, much like ponies, but it definitely shouldn't be a high one. It makes all the frustration with wanting the ponies a far better pay off when they actually get them.

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That will be the death of this game. There is nothing compelling about a race where everyone gets the same ribbons and trophies. People just want their instant gratification and damn the consequences or implication. I completely agree with you and I have no idea why this dev team wants everything in this game to cater to the lowest common denominator.

We might as well just have our characters turned into premade characters with all the gear, minions, furniture, etc etc preloaded into our inventory and logs. What's the point of even putting any effort into this game? It's not a hyperbolic question at this point. Whats the point of putting effort into anything in this game when you can wait a few months and everything will be nerfed for the lowest common denominator?

Just more people defending the easy way out, per the usual around here.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

much like ponies

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maybe if minions followed ponies then sure. untradable which means unsellable so collectors can have their joy, and those only in it for profit cant get greedy.

knew a guy who rolled and won a pony he already had. couldnt even remove the whistle from his inventory permanently losing a slot. make this happen too

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

It is dumb luck and nothing else, completely independant of and unrelated to any actual work or effort you put in the game. Nobody is 'special' for having a rare minion, nor is anyone 'impressed' by you having one. It doesn't mean you're skilled at the game at all. It means you just had dumb luck and nothing else.

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You're skilled because you didn't just beat it ONE TIME and get it, then never do it again. Not only did you beat it to win the RNG, but you perfected it to essentially speed it or even do it flawless. Like the difference between horrible PUG groups and FC groups doing Ravana EX. RNG is what separated not a lot of content in 11, lasting for a very long time and being one of the largest dedicated playerbases of an MMO game in History, and SE's most profitable game of all time.

Just because it's in the game, doesn't mean you need to be the first one to get it because you pay your subscription...

Well with how much SE loves gil sinks, I recall one game where you could offer up items and cash to increase drops of a dungeon. Toss up X amount of gil to increase the odds of chests containing more gear or in this case the minions.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

maybe if minions followed ponies then sure. untradable which means unsellable so collectors can have their joy, and those only in it for profit cant get greedy.

knew a guy who rolled and won a pony he already had. couldnt even remove the whistle from his inventory permanently losing a slot. make this happen too

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I would agree with you, but quite frankly the market in this game is absolutely atrocious. There is nothing worth selling that people have a demand for. The only things that sell are, Glamour, Minions, and House Decorations. There isn't a point in purchasing anything else in this game, and to take away another means of profit for the market would just be horrendous. I'm not crazy about a player buying their way to exclusivity, but it is a necessary evil

I am kind of tired of rare things becoming common in this game. The whole point of having them is because they are uncommon. Sure, it's nice for everyone to have them, but if everyone was standing around with the same minion, it kind of takes the fun out of it in the first place.

Almost every achievement in this game becomes less and less appealing. Mounts, minions, completing raids and dungeons.. They all get nerfed or become easier to get. Honestly - why is it fair that someone spent hours and hours farming ponies for Kirin, and someone spent a day, yet they both have the exact same reward?

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I am kind of tired of rare things becoming common in this game. The whole point of having them is because they are uncommon. Sure, it's nice for everyone to have them, but if everyone was standing around with the same minion, it kind of takes the fun out of it in the first place.

Almost every achievement in this game becomes less and less appealing. Mounts, minions, completing raids and dungeons.. They all get nerfed or become easier to get. Honestly - why is it fair that someone spent hours and hours farming ponies for Kirin, and someone spent a day, yet they both have the exact same reward?

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Well I don't know about you and everyone else, but I don't care for minions because they're rare, I care about owning them because they're cool and cute. Come Verminion and I'll have even more reason to own them, not everyone is obsessed with obtaining things because they're "rare". I was upset that they absolutely butchered the relic quest with 3.0 at first, after spending hundreds of hours it was gut wrenching to find that my weapon was not only worthless, but the glamour was no longer something special, but I got over it. I realized that not everyone wants to spend 200 hours farming the same content over and over again, and I'm one of them. I have benefited from drop rates being increased, and I think the experience from those boosts are much better than without.

@Colorful, I'm not 'obsessed' with things because they're rare, but making things extremely common when they used to be hard to get takes away the incentive for some people. As I said, it is nice for everyone to own cute minions, but SE don't need to make everything easily obtainable. Some things should be kept rare, while some things can be easily obtained because they're nice to have. Not everything has to be easy to get.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

@Colorful, I'm not 'obsessed' with things because they're rare, but making things extremely common when they used to be hard to get takes away the incentive for some people. As I said, it is nice for everyone to own cute minions, but SE don't need to make everything easily obtainable. Some things should be kept rare, while some things can be easily obtained because they're nice to have. Not everything has to be easy to get.

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We don't exactly know if they're going to make them extremely common as of yet, so there's no need to jump the gun there. But it all depends, are these minions going to be incredibly powerful in Lords of Verminion? If the answer is yes, I believe the increase in drop rate it justified. As of now, they're not reasonable to farm. What's the drop rate, 5-10%? Not only do you have to deal with an abysmal drop rate, but you also have to put up with out rolling 3 other people. It's not hard to get, it's entirely reliant on RNG. Someone could run it 1 time and get it, another person can run it 1,000 times and never see it drop. What I'd like to see is the minion being an achievement reward, complete the dungeon 10-100 times and you get the achievement along with the minion. If it's reliant on RNG, I couldn't care less if the drop rate is increased.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

We don't exactly know if they're going to make them extremely common as of yet, so there's no need to jump the gun there. But it all depends, are these minions going to be incredibly powerful in Lords of Verminion? If the answer is yes, I believe the increase in drop rate it justified.

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lolwut? That is the opposite of MMO Value:Effort Reward ratio... If something is strong or really good, you don't increase the drop rate making it more access able to everyone... you make that thing hard as heck to get because it becomes a symbol of status and game dedication to have it... If we just handed out the best to people that show up, then it wouldn't be the best, it would be the standard... That is what it means to establish a dedicated fan base that plays consistently rather then only playing for a few weeks and unsubbing until the next big boon... I know WoW players don't get this, but 11 players know that philosophy of content is unsustainable...

@Colorful, I'm not just speaking about minions specifically, what I'm trying to say is they have already increased the pony drop rate to the point where people can get Kirin in a few days with very little effort, so I think something needs to be kept 'rare'. My point really is that if they made minions a common thing, I'd like to see some items that are uncommon. Some people just like the satisfaction of trying to get something rare and finally getting it, you know? I agree with you on the achievement thing aswell. It's a nice idea.

Also, if the rare minions are going to be powerful.. It makes more sense to decrease the drop rate, not increase it.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

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If it was a PvE environment I'd agree, but Lords of Virminion is entirely focused on PvP with PvE "training" modes. This is an issue that has plagued WoW's PvP for a long time, you go in as a newbie into a random BG and you're greeted with players that are twice as powerful as you. You could be significantly more skilled, but you will be obliterated unless they're downright awful at the game. This is why Frontlines has an iLVL cap, this is why they're getting rid of PvP gear with stats and turning it into mostly cosmetics in WoW's latest expansion. No one wants to go into the game and be destroyed because they're new, a competitive environment is meant to balanced and reliant on skill, not reliant on whoever has played the longest and has the best equipment. But if you don't understand that, I'm not going to bother arguing this. As stated, there is no fair grind in these minions, someone could get it on the 1st attempt, and someone else on their 1000th attempt.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

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Well I don't know about getting Kirin in a few days, set up several Titan parties where I waited 1.5+ hours for the party to fill, everyone got their ponies several times but me because someone had to leave. I'm putting the Kirin on hold for now, can't take that kind of frustration personally. I do agree there needs to be something that people can go after, right now there's only Fenrir. I want to see more things like Fenrir, they don't really on RNG (mostly, that can speed things up though), but with a guaranteed goal you can work towards, be it in one week or over the course of a year.

@Colorful, I mean RNG plays a huge part with Kirin but the drop rate is still massively increased compared to what it used to be. I agree with having more things like Fenrir, it's nice to have something to work towards. I have no problem with items being common but SE need to also implement rare items for the people who like a challenge and goal.

Why not just make it so that if you currently have the minion, you can only Greed on it, leaving the Need battle for those that don't already have.

I'm also in the group that can't roll on mount/minions to save my life.

.......Guessing most people never worked so hard for something they've overworked themselves to the point of anger and frustration. Minions are a perfect example of this. Running a dungeon 100 times, suddenly the minion drops. You roll a 98 and your teammate rolls a 99.... 'Table Flip'. There's a clear diffference between luck and effort. Effort with your sheer will and persistence you can achive something, luck, well you either get it or you never do, yes, never. You can give it a 10% chance doesn't mean 9/10 you'll get it, F%#$ whatever anyone says to you that'll never be true. If ANYONE actually finds getting a minion after 20-50 straight runs rewarding then I wonder what you consider a punishment. Maybe 400 dungeon runs of forced labor would be a vacation for you.

And we all know how Verminion will work, fairness in every minion no matter how rare, because if it was unfair with higher stat minions that'd only be proof that SE has a competitive bone in there body that they refused to show in PvP Frontlines. Its going to be pure strategy with a touch of RNG and I look forward to seeing how it plays out. Not like Chocobo Racing tournaments with Twitter Tweets....ugh...

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Originally Posted by Colorful

^^Refer to comment

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1. That is the whole reason why they are changing the matchmaking to be based on a rank system as opposed to the current system that plops you in regardless of it due to the queing by nation.
2. Exactly, which is why in a competitive environment, players learn the basics before they are given the BFG. If that was the case, why even make it so you have to earn anything in this game. Just make it so that you get to the level and instantly get delivered the BiS for that level in your inbox.
3. That is the point of "Gear Lust"! When you see a dude get something you've been killing yourself for it pisses you off because you're comparing yourself to that person and it makes you want to be better then them. Which incentivizes you to get it. If it doesn't then you're not competitive anyway and the gear treadmill is perfect for you. So competing for higher content doesn't matter and shouldn't be dumbed down.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Not everything has to be easy to get.

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Good way to make things hard to get: Louisoix minion as an automatic reward for clearing Coil.

Bad way to make things hard to get: make them entirely RNG based.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Not everything has to be easy to get.

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If you don't have a lot of RL $$$, there are about 7 or 8 that are next-to-impossible to acquire (in truth, it's fewer than that, as several have expired/been retired).