Adrenaline skill balance

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Originally Posted by Domira

I call out and mark targets all the time, rarely anyone ever assists.

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If there's a Pld in my group, before match start I tell them i'm using /assist to target their target, and it'd be great if they'd go around stun-locking exposed enemies.

Even as blm though I get mixed results because I'm usually the only DPS who bothers to do it, and alone my burst is not fast enough to kill before the enemy escapes, is healed, or killed by an opposing faction. But if just 2 more dps (of *any* class) were to follow suit, we'd be a murder machine.

One reason I enjoyed Secure so much: the teams split and had a primary job. You occasionally ran into 3-way battles but for the most part, those teams had one other GC to deal with and the kills you got were 95% of the time yours. Kill stealing has got be one of the most horsecrap things ever to have so much weight on a gametype.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Steal kill is an ineffective gamble, but from I've seen it's the only method PUG is interested in. Heaven's forbid a PUG group would use a 1 marker or an /assist macro for easy and coordinated targeting.

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Yeah you're right, it is an ineffective gamble. Conversely, a team could focus fire a target and push out thousands of damage to have the kill credit snatched by a third party.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

Except this is the issue, melee dps for example has the same exact cast time as Blade Dance, while black mage is supposed to have the same cast time as sky shard and it doesn't, it's faster, significantly this combined with latency makes it imposible to dodge, don't confuse the nodes AoE attack with the BLM LB because it's not the same, first the diameter covered by the blm AoE is very large and the nodes is smaller,

If you check the video I posted, the guy Mr Happy is nearly at the edge of the AoE moving as soon as the marker pops and can't dodge it and the time he does because he was nearly at the rim of the marker he still gets hit by it.

It seems to me that a lot of people are confusing the nodes AoE attacks with the Black Mage LB.

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True, latency can kill. That's why I start or insta-cast a Medica II everytime I see a BLM AoE. A medica II is usually all you need to heal through it. The Adrenaline LB itself is not that powerful.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Yeah you're right, it is an ineffective gamble. Conversely, a team could focus fire a target and push out thousands of damage to have the kill credit snatched by a third party.

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Not likely. If you're bursting properly their health should be going straight to zero so there is zero chance it can be stolen or that they can be healed.

..edited for quotation

additonal edit:

I really swear by /assist. I want to maximize my dps, and with how crowded it is up top, trying to target a specific enemy turns into a complicated game of click the pixel. The more time I spend trying to find my target, the less time I have to actually deliver damage. (and it's critical time lost as well, as they are at any moment going to be healed, break range, or be killed by opposite faction).

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

If there's a Pld in my group, before match start I tell them i'm using /assist to target their target, and it'd be great if they'd go around stun-locking exposed enemies.

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Target marking has always been one of the unspoken duties heavy armored classes have to do in mass pvp, its been like this in nearly every mmo I've played. I just wish the many dps players new how to target the marked enemy and burst them down.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

True, latency can kill. That's why I start or insta-cast a Medica II everytime I see a BLM AoE. A medica II is usually all you need to heal through it. The Adrenaline LB itself is not that powerful.

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If only I wish Divine Seal Medica 2 and Medica I spam was enough to make my group survive a cometeor swarm.

The single AoE damage is not the issue, it's the several of them that's the issue.

Here's how it works:

Black mage see a group of people at half health, he casts cometeor kills say, 4 of them, his adrenaline bar is instantly filled up again, he casts cometeor, multiply this by the fact that as of late there's 6 black mages/summoners rolling on parties, it's a infinite spam of cometeors, and 2 in a row are enough to kill most classes, except tanks and anyone that maybe had stoneskin up.

First, the rate in which adrenaline bar fills up is a huge issue, as much as the comment that B-b-but Melee LB is stronk, it is, however, one melee LB cast on a successful kill isn't going to refill your LB bar, unlike caster in which you can get into a infinite cycle of casting cometeor.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

If only I wish Divine Seal Medica 2 and Medica I spam was enough to make my group survive a cometeor swarm.

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It would be enough if it was just one. But then there is two incoming, then three, then four, then five. Then 10 seconds later there is another barrage of cometeors incoming lol. Funny thing is, testudo and tank lb minimizes the damage of cometeor to the point were its negligible. I think it hits for around 500 dmg? Maybe less. Unfortunately the uptime of testudo and tank lb is small in comparison to how often cometeor can go off.

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Originally Posted by Domira

Target marking has always been one of the unspoken duties heavy armored classes have to do in mass pvp, its been like this in nearly every mmo I've played. I just wish the many dps players new how to target the marked enemy and burst them down.

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Four out of fives times though my PLD will insist on focusing their dps on center node x_x. . .

Seriously pld you would do more good towards getting the Node kill claim for our faction if you went around stunning the enemy melee dps

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tell your group to make an /assist "Corvus Lament" macro. As i mentioned a couple post up, trying to target manually via tabbing or click on can be difficult and time-consuming due to how crowded the fight is.

As a healer one time i saw my bard chasing an enemy almost into melee range. I could tell it's because he was controller and was trying to spam 'A' button to target closest enemy in line of sight.

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Originally Posted by Domira

It would be enough if it was just one. But then there is two incoming, then three, then four, then five. Then 10 seconds later there is another barrage of cometeors incoming lol. Funny thing is, testudo and tank lb minimizes the damage of cometeor to the point were its negligible. I think it hits for around 500 dmg? Maybe less. Unfortunately the uptime of testudo and tank lb is small in comparison to how often cometeor can go off.

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Exactly, it baffles me how even though it's been confirmed by a Comunity Rep that Cometeor cast time is faster than intended and should be the same as Skyshard, there's are people in hard denial that it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

Exactly, it baffles me how even though it's been confirmed by a Comunity Rep that Cometeor cast time is faster than intended and should be the same as Skyshard, there's are people in hard denial that it isn't.

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What I like to point out though is that the increased casting time isn't going to change the situation. That alliance has an instantly refilling LB bar, they've already won the match. Whether they're melee or caster, as long as they continue to land their LBs successfully, they will get to keep on repeating them. Slaughter is the name of the game, literally.

Increasing cast time WILL make a major difference. People will be able to dodge it. The blm my only hit 1-4 I stead of 8+ because cast time is slower. They can still aoe sleep etc but that only goes so far. Increasing cast time will balance things out a lot more than people think

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

Exactly, it baffles me how even though it's been confirmed by a Comunity Rep that Cometeor cast time is faster than intended and should be the same as Skyshard, there's are people in hard denial that it isn't.

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I don't think anyone is denying the cast time is faster than intended. I assume that gets fixed tonight.


What I'm saying is cometeor is not as OP as you're making it out to be. Divine Seal and Medica II are fine to handle healing through 2 in a row even if people don't move. You also have Focalization which a lot of PvE healers are forgetting to use. If it’s more than 2 in a row then you’re probably going against a pre-made and you’ll be lucky to win the match anyway. If both healers die or have to self-heal then it's because they were standing too close together. You can say the same thing about the group getting mezzed and then hit. Spacing, positioning, and reactive healing are very important. And for Pete’s sake, it is marked on the ground where it's going to hit. MOVE! Even if you get hit by the first one you should try to avoid the next.

By the end of this month, BLM’s are going to be nerfed into the ground because melee players just aren’t used to them being able to cast. That’s it. Melee players have dominated so long that the mere idea of dying to a BLM’s strongest AoE is absurd to them. Even though it is completely rational. Meanwhile casters die all the time to melee LB’s and for the most part suck it up and play.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

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Exactly, however this is what people isn't accepting, that the cast time is not broken, the skill it self is not OP that much is obvious, you said it yourself, the whole discussion is raised around the fact that it is unavoidable due the fast cast time and people is in denial that it isn't, nothing else, like someone pointed out, they have sleepga to fix people in place quickly and cast the LB, that's an acceptable stratergy, what's it's not acceptable is that with minimal effort just stacking cometeor has become the sure fire win, and dependant is in what group has the most black mages as the winning determinant. It's the entire fact that it's fully unavoidable, unless you have Bruce Lee reflexes it's totally unavoidable.
You can even be running around in circles with the intention of anticipating it and unless you are right at the edge, you will not avoid it, especially since the path you probably followed most likely has another 4 cometeors on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

the skill it self is not OP that much is obvious, you said it yourself, the whole discussion is raised around the fact that it is unavoidable due the fast cast time

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But I do think it's avoidable. At the very least, multiple hits are avoidable.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

But I do think it's avoidable. At the very least, multiple hits are avoidable.

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back in the original secure, people dodge my lb constantly, I usually had to SC Freeze, followed by sleep on the circle to hit more than one individual. Again, the Blk shouldn't be nerfed, theyre perfect as they are, I have to agree people are not used to dying from their aoe yet. The issue does lie in the great advantage the team with the highest lead gets their bars filled up, which is cyclical bc more lbs mean more kills for them meaning more lbs. the bonus increase a point lead gives to lb fueling needs to be address, not the classes themselves

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

back in the original secure, people dodge my lb constantly, I usually had to SC Freeze, followed by sleep on the circle to hit more than one individual. Again, the Blk shouldn't be nerfed, theyre perfect as they are, I have to agree people are not used to dying from their aoe yet. The issue does lie in the great advantage the team with the highest lead gets their bars filled up, which is cyclical bc more lbs mean more kills for them meaning more lbs. the bonus increase a point lead gives to lb fueling needs to be address, not the classes themselves

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Unfortunately using logic around here is pointless, players like evtrai wont be happy until they log in the game with full gear and achievements waiting for them. Player skill means nothing anymore and only participation badges are allowed because of "fairness"

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

I realized that now.

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Just the fact I have gotten under your skin so bad you have to take cheap shots proves you have no leg to stand on. Thanks for the easy win and proving you have no clue what your talking about.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Unfortunately using logic around here is pointless, players like evtrai wont be happy until they log in the game with full gear and achievements waiting for them. Player skill means nothing anymore and only participation badges are allowed because of "fairness"

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Dude lmao, what Iagainsti is saying is exactly the oposite of what you are saying or have been saying, I agree with what he is saying " the team with the highest lead gets their bars filled up, which is cyclical bc more lbs mean more kills for them meaning more lbs. the bonus increase a point lead gives to lb fueling needs to be address"
and why does it fill at absurd speeds? because of the cometeor spam and how people is adopting playing only black mages, please learn to read properly before trying to "speak sense into people" because you seem oblivious at understanding what's being discussed.

If you think I'm worried because this is affecting me at any degree, you are wrong, I'm from the imortal flames and part of the current problem, my win ratio out of 77 matches last week was 78% on first place, so yeah, I'm not being a victim of this, in fact I benefit from it, I'm just seeing it as a ruining factor in diversity and fun.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

But I do think it's avoidable. At the very least, multiple hits are avoidable.

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I thought that too until a pre-made stacked Cometeors with atleast 2 of them hitting a sleep which staggers you long enough to make it virtually impossible to dodge and I consider myself a very careful player. Even when I'm sure I've dodged it, there's been countless time where I still took damage. You don't move fast enough to consistently dodge it in it's current form. Think of the videos where people used to struggle with Titan Hard mode because the screen didn't accurately output what was actually going on so people who clearly dodged Landslide still get knocked back and die.

I don't think slower cast time is gonna fix the problem either, honestly but we won't know what they intend to hotfix until they do it.

Everyone knows slaughter in it's current form is BS but it's the flavor of the month as far as PVPers are concerned so as rational as it'd be for people to start queuing up for Secure until the mode gets fixed, not a lot of people are doing it because the queue times aren't as fast. I want to boycott Slaughter personally but I want Wolf Marks so I'm kind of in a bind as far as that's concerned.

Honestly, I personally feel that the proper move that players should do is to make their own pre-mades because pre-mades are the ones who come up with the strategies that people eventually follow and right now, on Aether Data server, the only ones who came up with effective strategies are the Flames which is why they're dominating right now. I have my own LS but I don't have enough people who play regularly enough to inspire a change in my GC so I'd have to keep recruiting until I find that mix.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

" the team with the highest lead gets their bars filled up, which is cyclical bc more lbs mean more kills for them meaning more lbs. the bonus increase a point lead gives to lb fueling needs to be address"

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Im just going to leave this here
Combat rank bonuses will now affect the rate at which the adrenaline gauge fills.

Rank Bonus to Adrenaline
1st None
2nd Fills 1.25 times faster
3rd Fills 1.5 times faster

taken right from the patch notes.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...735b3d4280abe6


Im tired of arguing with people that have proven many times they have no clue how to play the game.

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Originally Posted by OlgaFlow

I thought that too until a pre-made stacked Cometeors with atleast 2 of them hitting a sleep which staggers you long enough to make it virtually impossible to dodge and I consider myself a very careful player.

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This is the only really problem with caster LB but its not the LB its the fact its a premade, most people in this thread would not have issues with caster LB but because caster lb is "slightly" easier to coordinate its the go to set up. once its nerfed to hell, which is will because the OF always gets its way, they will be back complaining about how a team of 6 mnk/drg/nin is unfair and they need to nerf thier LBs now.

What SE really needs to do is separate premades like in wolfs den, or make an 8 man wolves den and keep frontlines to solo queue only.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

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What does this actually prove of the nonsense you seem to believe that is correct? You know what you posted actually is right?

This is the rate the gauge naturally fills up by itself by doing multiple actions, you know when in Titan Hard mode on the relic days people just waited auto attacking to wait for the LB bar to fill up, that's what that you just posted is, This doesn't include the adrenaline bonus gained by the kill rate, this does not include the Battle high bonus that is gained by killing players in a row, here let me enlighten you with the same source you posted:

Battle High: Damage dealt increases by 20%, and the adrenaline gauge fills 1.5 times faster

Battle Fever: Damage dealt increases by 40%, and the adrenaline gauge fills two times faster.

"Im tired of arguing with people that have proven many times they have no clue how to play the game." L O L

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

"Im tired of arguing with people that have proven many times they have no clue how to play the game." L O L

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Some people enjoy talking with themselves, since they are the only one who would agree with how great and wise they are.

For the most part, everyone else has been relatively respectful towards one another. Of course most people who can exercise a bit of reason, agrees that cometeor is in need of a change. Even the devs agree with it and said its current cast time is a mistake. So I don't understand what is to debate about it.

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Originally Posted by Domira

Some people enjoy talking with themselves, since they are the only one who would agree with how great and wise they are.

For the most part, everyone else has been relatively respectful towards one another. Of course most people who can exercise a bit of reason, agrees that cometeor is in need of a change. Even the devs agree with it and said its current cast time is a mistake. So I don't understand what is to debate about it.

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I enjoy discussions, because they end up giving ideas that developers can see what the source of discontent is, I have just never seen a person, that agrees, then contradicts his own opinion in less than 30 mins, it's majestic and stupefying at the same time.

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What SE really needs to do is separate premades like in wolfs den

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You realize that they arnt separated at all? there is just a queue for party vs party

You can still make a party and stomp randoms, but you get penalized

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

L O L

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It proves you have no clue what you are talking about, I replied to what YOU think, YOU think the team as a whole gets a faster bar just by being in 1st which like everything else you say is wrong. And I know how to read, I know battle high and fever, I have it for most of the fight, but why would I tell ppl like nins to save their LB and use it on those walking billboards that have battle fever. If the other team has multiple casters with it and you have melee dps you deserve to have comet spam.
so again.

Im tired of arguing with people that have proven many times they have no clue how to play the game

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Originally Posted by Zagam

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You are so sad, first, if any spelling error was made, my native language isn't english, and I'm afraid to say that when I read what you post, you seem to have the spelling and the writting skills of a prep school child.

First you agreed, when someone else said that the rate the LB bar is filling up is broken and how it was logic I wasn't willing to understand, then I state I agree with his opinion and suddenly it's like NOPE, I'm gonna contradict myself to prove Evtrai wrong, it's actually funny.

I'd love to see this stratergy of yours in action, I'd pay to see this in execution just for the sake of amusement

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

I enjoy discussions, because they end up giving ideas that developers can see what the source of discontent is, I have just never seen a person, that agrees, then contradicts his own opinion in less than 30 mins, it's majestic and stupefying at the same time.

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Before slaughter mode was implemented, these same people will say how they own on their BLM and never lose to melee unless they are zerged. Who ever loses to a melee as a BLM is a baddie.

Now since slaughter mode came out and BLM/SMN are overpowered, they will say how casters were useless in secure mode. (So this means they were losing before slaughter mode came out). And who ever loses to BLMs spamming cometeor are baddies. Narcissists are always right in their own minds.

Anyhow, yeah I agree about what you said. The cool thing is one of the threads about slaughter mode is being monitor and they are going to give our feedback to the devs. Thats great that the devs actually listen, in most games they do not.

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Originally Posted by OlgaFlow

Honestly, I personally feel that the proper move that players should do is to make their own pre-mades because pre-mades are the ones who come up with the strategies that people eventually follow and right now, on Aether Data server, the only ones who came up with effective strategies are the Flames which is why they're dominating right now. I have my own LS but I don't have enough people who play regularly enough to inspire a change in my GC so I'd have to keep recruiting until I find that mix.

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/threadhijack

I'd like to take a moment to applaud you for not being butthurt like others seem to be lately concerning the use of premades. The name of the game is organizing and strategizing, God forbid people succeed at it. Since you're on Sargatanas, I might be able to point you in the direction of some good Maelstrom players if you're interested.

/endthreadhijack

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Originally Posted by Domira

Some people enjoy talking with themselves, since they are the only one who would agree with how great and wise they are. For the most part, everyone else has been relatively respectful towards one another.

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No, some people are just tired of the game getting nerfed to hell because of the incompetence of the OF population. Caster LB is fine, melee LB is fine, if you want to nerf caster then you better nerf melee as well. The first week lots of ex pvp casters got to go back because for once we don't get gang raped just walking into a post, on top of actually being useful the more you have, now a week later caster lb is not the be all and end all, the smart players can sneak in/jump/dash and LB the battle fevered blm instantly stopping the comet spam but that seems to be a strat that is far to advanced for most around here.

As for civil? im not the one so butt hurt I need to make gifs to make myself feel better. They clearly cant have a discussion without crying.

The debate isn't about the cast time, if you seriously think these threads will be gone next week you're sorely mistaken.

Its not about spelling its about you saying things I didn't say. And I was agreeing with "back in the original secure, people dodge my lb constantly, I usually had to SC Freeze, followed by sleep on the circle to hit more than one individual. Again, the Blk shouldn't be nerfed"

which I will concede I did not quote properly in my reply.

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

You realize that they arnt separated at all? there is just a queue for party vs party

You can still make a party and stomp randoms, but you get penalized

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No, i was under the impression it was ONLY premade vs premade. which it should be......

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Originally Posted by Zagam

nerfed to hell. Caster LB is fine, melee LB is fine, if you want to nerf caster then you better nerf melee as welltop of actually being useful the more you have,

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Let me see if I understand, Melee LB is fine, understanding that lowering the adrenaline bonuses as per kill is fine, because that would balance both the Melee and Caster LB, apparently you are happy and content that the groups are fine with 6 black mages and the other classes left out, that's a little selfish but oh well.
Smart players sneak/jump/dash in the middle of the enemy cluster and apparently have enough time to use LB, mmm that doesn't seem to click, unless the oponents are a bunch of zombies with no awareness, which this usually means victory for the oponent.

Glad you mentioned about nerfs, because it seems you think that only black mage was the class solely that was adjusted.

[/QUOTE]Now since slaughter mode came out and BLM/SMN are overpowered, they will say how casters were useless in secure mode. (So this means they were losing before slaughter mode came out). And who ever loses to BLMs spamming cometeor are baddies. Narcissists are always right in their own minds.

Anyhow, yeah I agree about what you said. The cool thing is one of the threads about slaughter mode is being monitor and they are going to give our feedback to the devs. Thats great that the devs actually listen, in most games they do not.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for others, but I did own on my BLK pre slaughter. It was just a day in the life to rack up 7-8 kills and do 70k + dmg a match, I was referring to ppl dodging caster lbs when assaulting flags. TBH, I do not enjoy slaughter as is bc I am expected to head to mid and tab target scathe for kills till my LB is up and then spam sleep/LB, rinse repeat.

As to the name calling going on here, I agree with points from both sides, but let's get mature here plz. Anyway, I believe Slaughter would be much better if they took the mid out of the map for starters, so that groups would have to utilize the outer circle to engage, less loading and cluster-f*ckery and again, the issue of the speeds LB bars fill up when any team gains a substantial lead over the other two.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

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I do know this is for a fact true, In secure I had in my group several times this black mage Ceourl'o Ninetails I think? and this guy was insane, a lot of times he was running by himself around murdering people like nothing, effectively using blizzard, lethargy and sleep, manawall, etc, and just quickly dropping people easily, when the scores came up he was usually the top damage and killer, I can't remember a single time I had to be actively healing him or much less raising him, unless it was a zerg and full group wipe.

I do know this is for a fact true, In secure I had in my group several times this black mage Ceourl'o Ninetails I think? and this guy was insane, a lot of times he was running by himself around murdering people like nothing, effectively using blizzard, lethargy and sleep, manawall, etc, and just quickly dropping people easily, when the scores came up he was usually the top damage and killer, I can't remember a single time I had to be actively healing him or much less raising him, unless it was a zerg and full group wipe.[/QUOTE]

I bet he was, Blk CDs are amazing especially when I have both the fire/thunder proc loaded, and some foolish dps decides to give chase, easily pull him out of his healer's range, SC freeze, Phantom Dart>fire3>fire3>thunder3>sleep>Blizzard>Lethargy>blizz1 till dead.

Though to be completely honest, Mnks and Brds are always a pain to solo, props to Evtrai. Keep up the PVP ppl, the more the merrier!

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I can't speak for others, but I did own on my BLK pre slaughter. It was just a day in the life to rack up 7-8 kills and do 70k + dmg a match, I was referring to ppl dodging caster lbs when assaulting flags. TBH, I do not enjoy slaughter as is bc I am expected to head to mid and tab target scathe for kills till my LB is up and then spam sleep/LB, rinse repeat.

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I think both sides should try to understand that each side has some truth to it and that negating their perspective by calling them baddies or pulling the learn to play card isn't the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

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Both LBs are fine yes, I have never said either should be touched, 1 is a insta kill single vs possible multi player damage but no kill. You CANNOT nerf the caster lb (reducing damage further or making it single target) or the melee LB will be miles ahead, right now they are the same. Each are useful and each have drawbacks. Adrenaline SHOULD stay the same, if a blm is smart enough and quick enough to multi kill then so be it, the counter is to melee dps that player dead, even if it means SACRIFICING the dps to do it.

Right now people are getting used to the new game, this week is VASTLY different from last week as people learn how to manage the new rules. Every single job has a place and is actually useful as opposed to secure where tanks and casters were pointless.

And I know a few jobs got nerfs but no job other than blm is a complete 180 from how its played in pve.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Right now people are getting used to the new game, this week is VASTLY different from last week as people learn how to manage the new rules. Every single job has a place and is actually useful as opposed to secure where tanks and casters were pointless.

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/facepalm ... Straigus, where are you?