Relic Quest is pure Crap, i am done with it SE.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Honestly, my problem with Relic is that for the work involved to get one, it should ALWAYS ALWAYS be best in slot, no exceptions. At least 10 iLVL over the next weapon choice and NOT the other way around as it is now.

Yes, there is work involved in getting the coil weapons, especially for the third coil...but groups are clearing this stuff fairly quickly. We're not talking the elite of the elite..we're talking anyone with any competence and 7 friends of similar ability. The only thing keeping players from getting better and farming it up and getting all the gear they want is the weekly lockout. (and artificial wall)

In short, the hours you have to put in to study/figure out the third coil and acquire the current BiS weapon (at 135) is not at all on par with the amount of hours required to get the current relic (iLVL125).. therefore why would you ever waste time doing relic unless you just want to have the item for glamor.

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Grind should never trump skill. Also, I'm glad you're an expert on the time involved to learn and clear coil given you haven't even completed T5 (or any Primals for that matter... why do you need an i135 weapon again?).

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

The problem is, Yoshida doesn't want to "stress" the playerbase... Which result in decisions like "grinding your casual contents while adding ton of RNG related to it", meanwhile for less rng involved we could had got things like "killing all ex primals, Nael, fcob turn X, etc" in order to finish the last steps of our relics.

You guys and girls have to understand something simple :p It's either :
a) huge grindfest on easy and casual contents + deep gils sink.
b) challenge on midcore/raider contents, once a time completion, only skill involved, proving to the game that you are "worthy" to own your reward.
c) a decent mix of both.

So, what do you prefer? Huge RNG grind-fests or to be a bit "stressed" and have to work into endgame contents for side quests like relic weapons.

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without a second thought.... B, A and C are simply artificial way to increase the time we will spend for get it. if they don't want the relic to be the best in the slot (that the case actually) they need to add the relic under this form... it must be a quest with a progression with challenge outside of the classical stuff we do.

by the way, if they want to give reason people for do stuff like fate and such... they need to make them worth the time spend to do it. the GC stuff didn't evolve since the release, indeed we can get craft mats and venture token.... but seriously, i'm must'nt be the only one with tons of GC seal unused....

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Originally Posted by Avin00

I just love how people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to Xi. That was a grind on a whole different level. It took people years to acquire the necessary items to create one relic with the help of a huge amount of people and you are complaining about the grind needed for this? Get out go back to Xi for a few days and really remember what it was like, and make sure you take your glasses off.

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Sure, but what did you get at the end of it all? A unique weapon skill, a weapon which could occasionally deal TRIPLE the normal damage, and even a bonus special effect on top of that such as dealing additional damage based on HP in the case of Excalibur. It wasn't just another dime-a-dozen weapon, it was special and that's why it was so highly coveted.

Another point to articulate is that the relic quest was far more involved. You had to enter Dynamis and fight difficult boss fights to obtain many of the key items necessary to finish it, there was no endless repeating of low level activities when it was first introduced, and dynamis itself required a massive team effort. Though, admittedly not so much any more that they've heavily nerfed Dynamis to the ground.

Compare and contrast to FFXIV "relics" which are just another weapon. There's nothing unique about them aside from their appearance, and the novelty of that is clearly wearing off as I've seen many relic users glamor them anyway. The quest involves doing the SAME missions we've been doing ad nauseum and killing the same enemies we've been killing since day one. There's nothing really new or exciting to look forward to during the grind.

You know, as I said I gave up when it asked me to meld materia as I'm too cheap to do so.

Give how much of a pain in the behind it was to get my SMN relic to that stage, so much grinding, and the fact that I never was a fan of its design, with the availability of UATs from ST, it pretty much killed my interest in it.

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

what a troll!

if i want to do it its easy but, i may need to do it 20 times to get the drop, and i got better things todo rather than aurom vale, things that can be fun todo.

will i ever do it one day? maybe if they change the later part of quests to something other than old dungengs/fate/instace, then it will be worth it if this is the end of the low level grind. otherwise i am done with this.

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You call him a troll, when he is not one, what he said is pure truth if it is no fun for you to do 20x AV then dont do it and dont do your relic, pretty simple...unless I dont understand why you are complaining and in which case I would love you to clarify for me what is your real grief ?

When something ceases to be fun, you dont do it anymore...pretty easy and simple and if I were you I woudl take his advice, dont do it and find something else that you like better to do.

Mei

The good thing about relics are that they guarantee you a good, relevant weapon to use regardless of what new content is thrown at you, this is including final coil. It's a long grind and whether its worth iis up to the individual.

At least with relics you make constant progress. Even if you beat T13 and have it on farm, there's no guarantee you'll get your i135 weapon to drop. You'll spend weeks just waiting to have another shot. Might as well pick up a relic while you're waiting.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

The good thing about relics are that they guarantee you a good, relevant weapon to use regardless of what new content is thrown at you, this is including final coil. It's a long grind and whether its worth iis up to the individual.

At least with relics you make constant progress. Even if you beat T13 and have it on farm, there's no guarantee you'll get your i135 weapon to drop. You'll spend weeks just waiting to have another shot. Might as well pick up a relic while you're waiting.

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Or you can just run ST a few times for an UAT and a sands.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You had to enter Dynamis and fight difficult boss fights to obtain many of the key items necessary to finish it, there was no endless repeating of low level activities when it was first introduced

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There was an endless repeating of Dynamis though... Farming currency for a Relic was possibly the worst grind ever conceived, I'd much rather do a variety of content than the same piece week after week...

Currency farming is, without a doubt, the main reason I loathed SE for making Mythics utter crap. The Mythic questline was amazing compared to the Relic one, such a shame the weapons didn't end up being worthwhile (then again I was a mage, my ultimate weapons were obtained at Lv51 for some idiotic reason). Yoshida should really aim to make XIV Relics more like the Mythic questline and throw in endgame content. We don't have to be doing the top endgame content here to obtain a Relic, but if the current quest had us doing First Coil for the new crafting materials? That wouldn't be too bad, and it would be a massive improvement on "Go do Aurum Vale". Why the hell didn't they at least tie in Crystal Tower to the Relic questline? It's casual as hell, but a raid is a raid. Relics could have been the weapon "drops" for Crystal Tower that way, too.

As much as I hated currency grinding as well, it certainly is an improvement on RNG. All RNG parts of the Relic quest should have functioned like XIs ancient currency; You can get lucky and have a 100 piece drop, but you're guaranteed to get plenty of single pieces which can be traded in for an 100 piece as well. Every FATE drops an Atma Shard, 100 Atma Shards = 1 Atma, and you can still get lucky and get an Atma to drop from a FATE. Oh look, RNG as something which benefits the player, rather than pissing them off.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Don't worry, Atma got nerfed. You have to be now a very unlucky person if you don't get 12 atmas within 1 week

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Took me about 2hrs overall to get ATMA for my alt SCH after 2.4.

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Originally Posted by Avin00

I just love how people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to Xi. That was a grind on a whole different level. It took people years to acquire the necessary items to create one relic with the help of a huge amount of people and you are complaining about the grind needed for this? Get out go back to Xi for a few days and really remember what it was like, and make sure you take your glasses off.

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In XI days, it took me around a year to get Amanomurakumo as I was the #3 SAM in our group. The grind for the relics there was, to me, the true essence of grind. Earning the currency alone was a PTIA, let alone farming pops for money drops. This quest line in XIV does take a while, but shouldn't it? The easiest we had it in this line is farming lights, aside from that we just sink our time into it. Choose to or not to do it. Simple as that.

http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...42214_atma.png
http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/..._atmacolor.png
http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...mnilexatma.jpg

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

the whole RNG thing is just a way to slow everyone down and also keep low level content viable so new players aren't stuck in no mans land...

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This is the reason why relic quest is the way it is currently, its just there to keep dead(old)content alive. Also the "casual" aspect comes from that you can do it solo, and by solo i mean you are not really forced to have static for raids/ex primals or generally relying other players 24/7. I dont love nor hate the quest chain, its just good way to actually have something meaningful to do besides raids and pvp.

You know what I would like to see for the final relic phase? A midcore raid that drops whatever you need for your current phase, including mobs/bosses from atma books during the run.

OP you realize all the dungeon runs you do to get the drops is what will help you buy the soldiery items? And drops that can be turned in for GC seals? Are people really so blinded by rage that they cant see this lol.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Don't grind. Take it slow. You are not in a hurry.

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Unfortunately as fast as SE makes the weapons obsolete, you can't afford the time to "take it slow". Your always several steps behind. So if your going to go slow, it is best just to not do the quest at all, and spend your time learning the primal Ex that are current and getting their weapon. I started to feel left behind when I switched from hardcore > Casual after my novus was complete. Now its like it's easier just to go get a shiva ex weapon then it is to worry about getting past the next 2 steps of the quest(let alone starting from the beginning). I'll admit I've recently ramped up my grinding on relic significantly lately, but just thought I'd point that out.

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OP you realize all the dungeon runs you do to get the drops is what will help you buy the soldiery items? And drops that can be turned in for GC seals? Are people really so blinded by rage that they cant see this lol.

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I'm surprised you don't know that a great deal of players don't even realize all the money they are losing out on, by not selling GC items. It was like this back during the brayflox spam for relic as well. People kept wondering where I was getting all my gil, I was like um duh? There was even a thread I saw last week I forget which but some guy commented on how he handed in all his old AF/coil gear in order to get GC seals for his new relic quest. And I'm sitting here thinking........ I did that forever ago, where has this guy been? The ignorance of some of the easiest methods to making gil is staggering. And I shouldn't complain right, sense it helps me get more gil?

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

I used to play FFXI.

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Allow me to doubt that

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Originally Posted by Pterois

OP you realize all the dungeon runs you do to get the drops is what will help you buy the soldiery items? And drops that can be turned in for GC seals? Are people really so blinded by rage that they cant see this lol.

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Exactly this. The grind really isn't so bad now that I'm done with it. I got 90% of the soldiery and GC seals I needed while grinding dungeons for the relic items. It meant that once I got everything I needed, I only needed to put a minimal amount of extra work in to actually finish the quest. I only needed 800 more soldiery at the end of it. I'd say that out of all the different relic quests barring the initial one with chimera and hydra, this step has been the best designed step out of them all in the sense that while grinding dungeons you're completing all your other objectives at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

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My point was not about "skill vs. grind"- it's about the sheer amount of hours involved to clear one piece of content versus another. The hours are incredibly unbalanced unless you're saying it took you that long to figure scripted fights.

Not sure what my character's experiences in the game world have to do with my own knowledge about the situation.

Lack of interest =/= ignorance about what's involved.

(Also having friends who have completed the raids and being able to tell you, in concrete terms, what is involved helps. Sounds like "not a lot, just have to learn the scripted fights like always")

I feel like people are ignoring OP's point. It's not about "Relic is just an option, get over it". It's about content that's being done at end-game over the course of like many, many, many patches that isn't even designed to be enjoyable or helpful for the players who are doing it, but rather for new players. You don't think that's problematic? I'm all for helping out new players and providing incentives, but we already have mechanics in-place that are supposed to do that in the form of Low, Trial and High Level roulette. We didn't need 4 different steps of massive grinds to funnel people into extremely irrelevant content for a ridiculously long period of time, that's just obnoxious. If the Roulettes aren't incentive enough for people, then buff their rewards or provide some other SEPARATE incentive to go back into these dungeons. Don't just make an entire quest-line literally "Go and do things you otherwise would never want to do and receive no other benefit from".

The entire quest-line is designed to basically be as unappealing as possible while rehashing as much content as possible because in SE's shortsightedness to just make dungeons and all these other crap instances only relevant for a few months they didn't realize that nobody was ever going to touch them again if they had a say in it. The Relic quest line deserved to be new content (Especially the way it was hyped up), not a way for SE to cover up their horrible design of content progression.

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

I used to play FFXI and i like their system

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I stopped reading there. FFXI's relic upgrade system was an awful slog with very very little variability. It was just one giant grind for tokens. You're just another XI fanboy who always thinks XI did it better.

In one game the grind was better when it was a long slog of gather coins from dynamis but in this game you get some variability to keep it interesting and that's somehow worse? Your opinion fails the sniff test.

I started my Atma with 2.4's launch. I'm currently half way through the alexandrite phase. If this was FFXI I would have run dynamis, gotten 2 coins, and completely given up by now. This is a far better system that is easier to progress through.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...42214_atma.png
http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/..._atmacolor.png
http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...mnilexatma.jpg

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Oh, how I miss nom nom. :(

As a completist - I really hate the relic quests. Why? Because if I only do the relic quests - I personally won't have enough time to do coil. So I end up sacrificing coil in thought that I can go back to Coil later at a higher level and completely plow through it. The relic quests I would still need to go back to and grind for all of eternity. Thus as a completist I'm pulled towards this awful grind.

Ha - I realize this is my fault (I'm probably crazy). However - I wish these quests had multiple paths (such as do coil to skip "some" of the grind). At least that would provide a crazy such as I incentive to do something else with my time.

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

*Continued*

SE, unless i see somethign remotly challanging in the relic quest, i will not do it again. my PLD nexus was finished a few days before shiva's weapons were upgraded to the same level. its clear we dont need relics anymoe, and its pure crap to do them. ilevel 125, and its only +1 dmg over the wep u get by beating t11. i am done with this. i beat t10 in 3 raid attempts without even having a raid grp for final coil and i heard t11 isn't much harder there is no dps check either. so easier to get tome weapon rather than do lvl 2 fates for 6 months.

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I feel the same way with a lot of these relic quests. Like another poster put also these things are time consuming, also you have to choose between coil or doing these since they take up so much time. Now there's plenty of people with lots of time on their hands who have both i'm sure. These relic quests are only good for people like me because I can jump on and start instantly on it. Other things I would have to put party finder up, wait for people or wait for DF to come up. If I had the time I would of done things differently, not done relic and would of just pushed to progress in coil, obtained the items there and call it a day. Now i'm so invested in it, that only way I will stop doing it when I stop paying for the game..which depending on 3.0 & a few other things might be sooner than I thought.

I'm in agreement with the OP, if the content that you had to grind for relics was even remotely challenging it would be a lot more fun to me but pretty much everything after base relic is a joke (base isn't hard anymore but I remember when titan hm was a lot harder).

Grinding fates and dungeons you've already done hundreds of times that are not even a little bit challenging is not fun to me and while the zodiac weapons are cool I really wish they would put more effort in than "do this old content you've already done until your eyes bleed". I get that some people enjoy grinding, but even they must wish that they got to grind something different or more challenging for a change.

I agree with OP, relic should require unique boss fights, etc. Something different then old content over and over.

The devs should invest as much, if not more time in the relic then they do for coil.

When you see someone with a so called legendary relic, the first thought should be "wow!!! This person actually has a relic!!" Not "oh...they must be lucky with rng"

You guys do realize that the point was not to be challenging right? Want a challenge and a high level weapon do the coil. Want it without entering coil do the relic upgrade. It was supposed to be the every man option. Where it was just a time/money sync and anyone could get it regardless of skill level. Asking for it to be more challenging is literally missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You guys do realize that the point was not to be challenging right? Want a challenge and a high level weapon do the coil. Want it without entering coil do the relic upgrade. It was supposed to be the every man option. Where it was just a time/money sync and anyone could get it regardless of skill level. Asking for it to be more challenging is literally missing the point.

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Naw, yoshida himself said that in 2.0 he was surprised how fast people were completing titan, and that he wished he made it more of a challenge.

Of all the things in FFXIV that are basically handed to players.

Level 50 a few day,
Gear sure 450 a week cap but still handed to players, you do a little grind you get.

Then relic, Something you need to work for. Something you feel good about finishing OMG. Every time I finish a stage of my relic I'm happy my weapon is better and I know I'm going to make it better yet.
If you don't like it don't do it. I personally love the relic quest line as it give me something to work for vs just spamming END game.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You guys do realize that the point was not to be challenging right? Want a challenge and a high level weapon do the coil. Want it without entering coil do the relic upgrade. It was supposed to be the every man option. Where it was just a time/money sync and anyone could get it regardless of skill level. Asking for it to be more challenging is literally missing the point.

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It could at least be new content, not new conditions for doing old content or content that nobody ever did to begin with. Something on par with CT/ST tier difficulty instances wouldn't be unreasonable, nobody is asking for this to be Second/Final Coil 2.0 but the fact that it actually -is- "Low Level Roulette and Garuda HM/Turn 4 Spam - The Quest Line" is ridiculous. It's not the difficulty (Or complete lackthereof) that bothers me regarding the Relic Quest. It's the fact that there's nothing new about it at all, it's just a barely hidden attempt by SE to put people back into low level content because there's no other reason to do or care about anything like that once you're 50.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Of all the things in FFXIV that are basically handed to players.

Level 50 a few day,
Gear sure 450 a week cap but still handed to players, you do a little grind you get.

Then relic, Something you need to work for. Something you feel good about finishing OMG. Every time I finish a stage of my relic I'm happy my weapon is better and I know I'm going to make it better yet.
If you don't like it don't do it. I personally love the relic quest line as it give me something to work for vs just spamming END game.

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Whenever I finish a new stage, I don't feel like i'm stronger. I feel like it's just another hurdle to get each stage for a mediocre weapon. Until they make relic on par with the raid weapons, they simply are not worth it. Since the relic is reaching it final stage soon, I am simply turned off by the whole process. All that diligence and hardwork is pointless.

I agree with the thread title, but not the OP, due to the desynth requirement for the relic quest. That is what makes it pure crap right now IMO. I don't agree with the OP mostly because I need no excuse to dungeon crawl, I like the dungeons. But throwing the highest level crafting in there? No, go to hell SE, no.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

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I personally love the relic quest line as it give me something to work for vs just spamming END game.

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Spamming easy content ad nauseum isn't exactly "work". Most people play games to have fun not to do copious amounts of tedium. I'd much rather have fewer instances of harder content rather than what we have now. At least multiple ways to obtain the items we need would be a welcome relief. Why does the item, for example have to come from Aurum Vale? Why not *any* dungeon in the low level roulette? Why does it have to come from AK? Why not any dungeon in the high level roulette? At least then you're not doing the same exact dungeon over and over. But I digress. I stopped caring after the books... by the time I get even near finished with Novus, I will be able to buy the i120 poetic weapon with tomestones from CT in 2.5 =p

I don't mind the grind at all. I also LOVE the glows. That's actually the main reason I don't bother with other weps. No glow or a weak glow. Idk why so many people hate it, but just to appease those of you who do, why not have SE implement a toggle function that's makes all glows visible/not visible to you. That way I keep my glows and you don't have to see it. Can't wait to see how the 135 version glows! :D nexus glow was amazing!

OP, You'll get it done eventually. It's just another mainstream generic weapon no one will care about in a few weeks. There're already hundreds of them running around on Atomos, myself included, so meh.

Go do Coil OP, I want to hear you complaining about your weapon not dropping even after 20+ clears.

I'm on early T13 progression right now, and will have my Ragnarok within the next 3 days (maybe even today if I get really lucky with my last 3 dungeons and finding Sol bonuses in the Trial DF). It will be more than enough to help me through the turn.

But...I still have to wonder why people want, no demand, the best gear without doing the content required to get it. The relic grind is not hard at all, it just takes some time. No real skill involved. It does not deserve to be equivalent to the Dreadwyrm weapons at all

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Originally Posted by PArcher

But...I still have to wonder why people want, no demand, the best gear without doing the content required to get it. The relic grind is not hard at all, it just takes some time. No real skill involved. It does not deserve to be equivalent to the Dreadwyrm weapons at all

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Relic weapon will likely be buffed to be the same iLvl after FCoB is considered aged content, like Nexus was in SCoB. This is nothing new and was basically confirmed that they would never be initially the same level of relevance (At the time of release) so I'm not sure why people are still complaining about this so far down the line. If you aren't doing the hardest content you don't need the strongest weapon, it's a side-goal/trophy and for what it is that's fine.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

you have to choose between coil or doing these since they take up so much time

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Finished my Ragnarok between raid days.

I get that the relic quest is a convenient way for developers to get people doing old content again, but there has been a severe lack of quality in the quest line since the quest to get the relic itself. In that quest line, you fought a Chimera, a Hydra, and took on all three of the primals which at the time was a challenge itself. Why are fights like that not being integrated anymore? Why is fights like the EX primal battles not in? Or new boss fights? Weave them in between whatever grinds you feel the need to put in there.

If we get a new relic quest line in 3.0, I want to see something more creative than spam this content till you want to slam your head on the sidewalk.

To the OP, no need to be dramatic, it is an optional quest after all. Also, FFXI's relic quest is not a good example of this, it is just as bad in it's own way.

There's no instant gratification!

SE YOUR ENTIRE QUEST LINE IS TERRIBLE WAHHHH.

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Originally Posted by Meier

Naw, yoshida himself said that in 2.0 he was surprised how fast people were completing titan, and that he wished he made it more of a challenge.

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Has absolutely nothing to do with the relic upgrade path.