So Second Coil has been destroyed

I wonder how many of the angry people in this thread are actually just run sellers, upset that they can only sell Final Coil now.

The OP's whining aside, I like how the ilevel requirements are overshooting what you actually need for once: it was really rare for someone to be i105 when people were first clearing t9.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

I wonder how many of the angry people in this thread are actually just run sellers, upset that they can only sell Final Coil now.

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I'm confident that I'd still be able to sell t9, DF still can't do t5 most of them time lmao.

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Originally Posted by Krr

Also, I don't see anything indicating the mechanics can be 'ignored', only that their punishment damage has been reduced from 'instant death' to what is likely 'severe'.

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At least you don't need to worry about getting rid of honeys in T6 now as they won't lead to bees spawning in last phase.

I feel sorry for one of our Coil teams that got T8 to 5% last night and is going to clear it on Thursday. They have been working on it for a long time now and were so close to beating it, and now they'll have to settle for the nerfed version. :( At least the only nerf in T9 is the echo.

Edit: Ironically, I'm also not sure if all the group members will be able to enter these last turns now in their current gear.

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content...en-Colbert.gif

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Originally Posted by Osmond

If ppl already beaten 2nd coil why complain that the mechanics you like isn't there? Why do ppl do that?

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You kinda answered the question already. I'm just sad because I can't really see the mechanic anymore. Missed out for taking too long :/

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

If players can't clear SCoB they won't clear FCoB anyways, why move players into content they have no business being in?

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I'm pretty sure this is why Turn 9 was not nerfed, actually, beside the slight echo bonus. Which is actually something I'm fine with. That's the one that actually locks Final Coil progression, and it's still going to be hell. There's also Savage Coil still, which yeah, I'm really glad has been completely untouched because I can still get the Crazy Batshit Version of the fights if I want. (Which I do)

Either way it remains to be seen exactly how deadly these mechanics remain (10 seconds of the entire party stunned due to Cursed Shriek, while not an instant wipe anymore, is still probably going to hurt like a bitch, and I fully expect that while Blighted Boquet won't one-shot you, it might still do so if you're not sitting at max HP or really close to it.)

Run selling is a real thing. It's broadcasted every day/night on twitch.tv. People from my server are broadcasting it, everyday, making serious bank off of it.

Besides, SE are the ones who can see the number of people clearing second coil.
They nerfed it, then obviously the numbers were low, maybe even more so on the console end of things.

This will help more of the community, and you've got savage, like everyone else has been saying all along...

nothing and cry, nerfing was no surprise, and there are still a challenge in the second coil it has been out for awile.
There are not many people who have downed Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage) t8 and t9 yet and T9 normal is difficult still.

This isn't a matter of prestige for me. I'm really upset they took one of the best designed fights in any MMORPG I've played and butchered it (T7). I'll never get to experience the original again.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

The OP's whining aside, I like how the ilevel requirements are overshooting what you actually need for once: it was really rare for someone to be i105 when people were first clearing t9.

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The requirements were a bit high, a tank with full 110 on the left side and pentamelded ruby accessories on the right side will not meet the minimum requirements for T9.


With the nerfs the hardest part of each turn will probably be getting through the trash.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

You kinda answered the question already. I'm just sad because I can't really see the mechanic anymore. Missed out for taking too long :/

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Im not really worried though, they know that they won't play 2nd coil anymore. Yeah, it does suck for those who do miss it, but it was annoying if ppl didn't get used to the mechanics yet....or maybe they didn't want it and just wait til the nerf.

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Originally Posted by zar

This isn't a matter of prestige for me. I'm really upset they took one of the best designed fights in any MMORPG I've played and butchered it (T7). I'll never get to experience the original again.

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That dish has been reseasoned by the best professional chefs and reserved to people like yourself, in savage mode. You even get a title for it.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

I'm confident that I'd still be able to sell t9, DF still can't do t5 most of them time lmao.

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Yeah I don't get the whinning, doesn't this mean a lot more people will be buying T9 now? OP should be happy.

Wow some of you are gonna be having a really bad time for probably the rest of this game's life then... Yoshi-P back in Beta and again after a few updates had already set up the precedents of nerfing outdated content when newer content pops up. This has been re-iterated so many times by him in the past. I don't see this changing any time soon unless they drastically change the way the game works (which may very well happen in 3.0, who knows but SE.) either way, this was no surprise at all.

Being REALLY late into the Coils game, I've only beaten T6 with a PUG last week. I'm just sad that T7 is nerfed before I can beat it, haha. I actually liked the mechanics for that fight...

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

The requirements were a bit high, a tank with full 110 on the left side and pentamelded ruby accessories on the right side will not meet the minimum requirements for T9.


With the nerfs the hardest part of each turn will probably be getting through the trash.

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I'd just switch when in instance haha, it's dumb that even SE thinks that higher ilevel is always better for tanks.

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Originally Posted by jlewiss

If you beat it already then who cares, move onto 3rd coil and stop going after people who are playing catchup still.

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She is a clear seller, something she has admitted to being in her own words on these forums. When take that into consideration it becomes apparent why she might hate this move by SE as it will potentially damage her profits made from selling clears on this content. The people actually against this are for the most part people who's egos depend on treating others like something they step on or they might lose some profits from selling clears on this content. Those people still have final coils and savage mode untouched, that is the newer content meant to challenge them and not this old content in second coil.

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Originally Posted by RadRyder

Being REALLY late into the Coils game, I've only beaten T6 with a PUG last week. I'm just sad that T7 is nerfed before I can beat it, haha. I actually liked the mechanics for that fight...

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Yea :p T7 was really fun, 1 mistake often = wipe raid if you petrify your tank or healers. Now, the petrify is shorter and no longer 1 shots if you get hit while petrified. And it mentioned Renaud getting attack nerf too? I'm not gonna get hit for 28k no more?

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

Wow some of you are gonna be having a really bad time for probably the rest of this game's life then... Yoshi-P back in Beta and again after a few updates had already set up the precedents of nerfing outdated content when newer content pops up. This has been re-iterated so many times by him in the past. I don't see this changing any time soon unless they drastically change the way the game works (which may very well happen in 3.0, who knows but SE.) either way, this was no surprise at all.

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Well, I didn't really expect such heavy nerfs to the mechanics of the fight, not right off the bat at least. I mean, t2 allagan rot still blows people to smithereens, right? Or maybe that was changed too (if it did, it definitely wasn't on the first nerf, I'm sure... I think)...

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

Yea :p T7 was really fun, 1 mistake often = wipe raid if you petrify your tank or healers. Now, the petrify is shorter and no longer 1 shots if you get hit while petrified. And it mentioned Renaud getting attack nerf too? I'm not gonna get hit for 28k no more?

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Oh yeah T7 and voice, counting down on TS

5 seconds until she casts voice again
3 seconds
ok people she's casting voice
Voice is on X, Y and Z

and then a couple seconds later me and the other tank get petrified.

I still have nightmares about T7.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, I didn't really expect such heavy nerfs to the mechanics of the fight, not right off the bat at least. I mean, t2 allagan rot still blows people to smithereens, right? Or maybe that was changed too (if it did, it definitely wasn't on the first nerf, I'm sure... I think)...

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First coil turns outside t5 can be done with a blindfold and your hands tied up. For t2 specifically people just enrage and spam heal. Turn 5 itself, I don't know if it received any nerfs but IMO the hardest part is knowing how to use focus target.

Second coild will just be as farmable as first coil, probably a bit less.

While T9 got no nerfs I guess the extra DPS from echo will help to get to / past golems fast and ghosts will be a bit less of a threat, though I highly doubt a DF group will even get to Heavensfall.

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Originally Posted by D-Gold

Personally I want to go through the same hardships of wiping and learning that others had to go through in order to progress. While I don't mind echo because I can turn that off I feel like I get cheated out of an experience with nerfs like this.

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No you don't. You are not cheated out of anything, do savage mode instead.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

The people actually against this are for the most part people who's egos depend on treating others like something they step on or they might lose some profits from selling clears on this content.

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This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

Edit: Me or my FC never have and never will sell runs. We organise learning groups instead.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, I didn't really expect such heavy nerfs to the mechanics of the fight, not right off the bat at least. I mean, t2 allagan rot still blows people to smithereens, right? Or maybe that was changed too (if it did, it definitely wasn't on the first nerf, I'm sure... I think)...

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I don't believe Allagan Rot was ever changed. That said show me turn 2 groups who still actually deal with Rot instead of going for the soft enrage method.

I liked doing scob, the /original/ mechanics were fun. Now I won't have fun anymore.

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Originally Posted by Taika

This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

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But we all know we not gonna keep playing that content overtime, teaching new players of the mechanics, positioning, etc. Mind you they do monitor what players do in the game and they know those who do complete that content do not go back unless there's a very good reason.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

First coil turns outside t5 can be done with a blindfold and your hands tied up. For t2 specifically people just enrage and spam heal. Turn 5 itself, I don't know if it received any nerfs but IMO the hardest part is knowing how to use focus target.

Second coild will just be as farmable as first coil, probably a bit less.

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Well yeah, but it wasn't a mechanic nerf; that was just people outgearing or maybe you could say just brute forcing it with extra heals (and echo later on, of course). There was only the paralysis change to lessen the need for a bard/monk silence as far as I remember.

Still, I could go back and handle the rot method if I wanted to.

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Originally Posted by RinKaen

I liked doing scob, the /original/ mechanics were fun. Now I won't have fun anymore.

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The mechanics aren't gone.

They're just not going to be instant full party wipes anymore. If they're so severely undertuned that they get straight up ignored it might be a problem (what ended up happening between gear and echo to Turn 1/4), but I suspect you're still really, really going to want the entire party not to be petrified for 10 seconds every 30 or so.

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Originally Posted by Taika

This is a load of bull. People who I know are against these nerfs, including myself, appreciate the value of clearing these fights unnerfed and don't want to take that chance away from people who don't happen to have as much time for the game, or a static, or whatever. Progressing slower than the top or even medium speed groups does not mean you're an incompetent player who needs all central mechanics removed or nerfed to be able to clear content. In addition, nerfs only do a disservice because they remove the valuable learning experiences these turns offered, the experiences that help the people who've been able to clear them to make progress in the following turns.

Edit: Me or my FC never have and never will sell runs. We organise learning groups instead.

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I do not believe you. You still have savage mode without the nerfs so whining about the non-savage version is for other reasons. Other than one main mechanic change on one coil the rest of the mechanics are pretty much the same only with reduced damage or less time debuffed on the original second coils but like said you still have savage version if the challenge was all you wanted.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

But we all know we not gonna keep playing that content overtime, teaching new players of the mechanics, positioning, etc. Mind you they do monitor what players do in the game and they know those who do complete that content do not go back unless there's a very good reason.

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I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what but I'd at least go back to any turn our members want to learn.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

I do not believe you at all. You still have savage mode without the nerfs so whining about the non-savage version is for other reasons.

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I don't think Savage mode is what majority of players are interested in doing. However, it's a good example in the sense that I haven't personally started clearing it and would be very disappointed if it would get nerfed before I'll have the time to do it. I know people feel similarly about normal Coil and I would feel too if I hadn't beaten second yet (and which is why I'm also focusing all my event time on FC now to be able to clear it before it gets nerfed).

Call me crazy, but I don't see the problem with allowing people to catch up on content that's 9 months old. The hardcore raiders have had that long to learn the mechanics for them, sell their turns, show off their high allagans, and now have the chance to move on to the more demanding raid content.

As with anything, it's going to be outdated and people are going to have to move on. I'm sure there are plenty of casuals out there, like me, who would like to experience and clear as much of this game's content as possible at some point. Just because you have access to a regular static group and the time to be able to put into dedicated weekly farming, doesn't mean everyone else necessarily has had that same luxury. I really wish some people would get over their sense of self entitlement with this game and it's offerings to *every*one who pays their sub.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

She is a clear seller, something she has admitted to being in her own words on these forums. When take that into consideration it becomes apparent why she might hate this move by SE as it will potentially damage her profits made from selling clears on this content. The people actually against this are for the most part people who's egos depend on treating others like something they step on or they might lose some profits from selling clears on this content. Those people still have final coils and savage mode untouched, that is the newer content meant to challenge them and not this old content in second coil.

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Not only has the OP actually done savage and cleared final, but most people complaining are actually people who were still working on second coil and are now unable to play the mechanics as they were originally designed. I think those people would prefer a gradual nerf through the natural gear inflation that comes with vertical progression over hard nerfs.

The only real good money in mercing is selling it when it is actually on lockout, nerfs don't do a thing to prices other than allow more groups to carry it and maybe drive prices down. A dead person still does zero with echo, and the easier you make something the worse people will play.

Wow, I'm surprised at how much people whine about this. You have had months to do Second Coil and even First coil, Its not like they just nerfed Final coil or anything. Calm your jimmies folks. Just go do savage or final coil, it has better drops now anyways.

And on a side note: Its not like we havent seen this before even in Square's older MMO. Older content has always been retouched making it easier for new players even back in XI. and While I am aware this is not XI, it has already happened in XIV before. For example, The first coil already was retouched, but not only that but the removal of certain tomes and the switch from Mythology to Soldiery. Yet I didnt hear many people complaining that they made it easier to get soldiery tomes....

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Originally Posted by Taika

Tsnip

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But surely you can understaind SE position here, they want more people to enjoy the new content, the current max challenge (well some say savage is harder that FCoB but that's another topic). The nature of this game is newer content will outdate older content, if you keep people gated behind old fights that normally can take weeks or months and aren't even rewarding loot wise then you will have less people doing the new content.

A way to solve this is difficulty tiers, no nerfs or minimal nerfs needed, but that may not happen until the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what but I'd at least go back to any turn our members want to learn.

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Im just being realistic. We know that they are going to do this and we know that they are making it easier for new players that are trying to get into the game, to progress to catch up. Why keep the old mechanics knowing that when new content comes no one is going to play it overtime?

Nerfs weren't required. Hello kitty island adventure is more to some of these players skill level

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

The mechanics aren't gone.

They're just not going to be instant full party wipes anymore. If they're so severely undertuned that they get straight up ignored it might be a problem (what ended up happening between gear and echo to Turn 1/4), but I suspect you're still really, really going to want the entire party not to be petrified for 10 seconds every 30 or so.

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/original/

I don't get these so called elitist. You can brag all you want that you beat the game with out echo... good job we commend you on that but did you ever think others want to play end game too / raids but due to their "REAL LIFE" issues/schedules they can't. SE is just being fair to others who want to play it. Besides you have turn13 down already so whats to the point in crying for the changes in scob? If you want this game to last long, we need this kind of change. Personally I only want to remove the lockout and that you can DF scob but not echo. But that's how it is deal with it.

Wait, people are getting mad that SCOB is being nerfed? Wtf? Must be all the elitists and run sellers. Now people have the opportunity to progress. Here is something else you may not have noticed.... T9 was not nerfed.... so why complain

As a person that hasn't done T8 yet..

All I can say is meh, I don't really care for these nerfs, I don't get why people complain about them, I'm only slightly sad that they removed the challenge of these..but hey Savage mode.

I just do not get why people are complaining..maybe the run sellers make less money, you have FCoB to sell, and arguably Shiva..T5..T9?..
Elitists, oh please..allow people to catch up..like me :|