Please be considerate to newer players!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

There are no wicked elitists here trying to stuff all the allegedly helpless newbies into the Eorzean ghetto, cruelly locking them out of all DF content now and forever.

---

I just arrived.

The peasants shall only look at us from beyond their deteriorating fences. Gaze upon our High Allagan coats with envy for they will never attain such riches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tauu

I feel sorry for newbie tanks who attempt that content. It's far too stressful.

---

If I were tanking an unfamiliar dungeon and had the DPS or Healer consistently refusing to play reasonably by speed running ahead and ignoring direction after I'd made friendly attempts at communication, I'd flat out refuse to continue.

If I'm healing or DPSing a dungeon and watching paint dry as my ultra-conservative tank gingerly pulls one mob at a time, I'll let them know it's okay to be a little more aggressive. I might go so far as to pull an additional mob on top of the 1 or 2 so that I can help AoE effectively and illustrate the point, but I won't actually run ahead of the tank or consistently force him/her to play my way. If the tank really wants to be slow and careful, I'll respect that choice even if it puts me to sleep by the end of the dungeon.

To sum up the sentiment in this topic
"Don't tell me to speed up, but let me tell you to slow down"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ziddyt

To sum up the sentiment in this topic
"Don't tell me to speed up, but let me tell you to slow down"

---

If the player wants to control the pace, they can be the tank since it's pretty much that role's job.

I hate it when people purposely pull extra mobs when i tank. When a healer does it i dont mind since it shows they can more or less handle extra pulls.

Regardless it is rude. A simple message to pull more plz goes a long way.

Paladin tanking is a much higher skill cap than Warrior and should never be compared between the two.

First of all - Flash spam does literally nothing compared to Overpower, and no one ever teaches a Paladain that they should cycle through targets with Savage Blade and Rage of halone to maintain aggro.
It's never taught unless it's given out of word of mouth.

For example, I was in an Ampdapor Keep party a few weeks ago and I thought that the Paladin, who was roughly ilvl60 while I was ilvl100+ SMN, was just a piss-poor tank until I noticed he was maintaining aggro on the main target he was focused on. I couldn't steal it unless I intentionally tried to. As soon as I noticed I was like "I think I see what you're doing wrong." and his reaction was along the lines of "I'm spamming Flash as much as I can."


I blame SE for failing to make Flash adequate enough. If you're going to advertise it as an ability to maintain aggro you should atleast make it work more efficiently, especially since it doesn't have the added bonus of damage Overpower does.

My main job (DRG) currently is i105. Frequently (just about every time) when I queue for expert roulette, the tank is new or undergeared compared to the DPS. This is no big deal, really.

(As a DPS) I'm prepared to eat damage and even die if I step out of line or accidentally hit the wrong thing because the tank didn't mark. I should think that any geared/overgeared/decent DPS should also expect this to happen occasionally.

I would never get angry at the healer for choosing to heal the tank over me on trash. During boss fights, I'm more careful so I shouldn't be ripping hate off the tank.

DPS doing their jobs (dealing damage) isn't being inconsiderate. It's how they go about it. If they keep ripping hate off the tank, let them bleed. They really don't have the right to get angry about it if the tank truly can't keep up with them. If they see that they aren't going to get as many cures, they'll hold off on the damage if they know what's good for them.

Maybe it's just because I'm a (lol)DRG and used to eating dirt anyway that I feel this way. :3

On the note of speed runners. They get what they deserve. Death. Don't stress it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

If I were tanking an unfamiliar dungeon and had the DPS or Healer consistently refusing to play reasonably by speed running ahead and ignoring direction after I'd made friendly attempts at communication, I'd flat out refuse to continue.

If I'm healing or DPSing a dungeon and watching paint dry as my ultra-conservative tank gingerly pulls one mob at a time, I'll let them know it's okay to be a little more aggressive. I might go so far as to pull an additional mob on top of the 1 or 2 so that I can help AoE effectively and illustrate the point, but I won't actually run ahead of the tank or consistently force him/her to play my way. If the tank really wants to be slow and careful, I'll respect that choice even if it puts me to sleep by the end of the dungeon.

---

Sometimes I help out the cautious tanks by tanking a mob or two for em in a pull ;D

"DPS doing their job" isn't just tunnel vision and unleashing hell to take down everything fast, there is a reason why enmity bars are visible to everyone and not just the tank, there is a reason why BLM, BRD, SMN, DRG and WHM get a sort of enmity reduction skill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Even still, this isn't really a new player. Someone new to tanking, is starting off with 90 gear and starting on hard dungeons? Sounds a little fishy.

---

So does the dps with i110 gear which don't understand they are not the tank and should not have aggro, if they do have it, hold back a bit or use abilities to reduce aggro.

For those saying it can't be a new tank because he/she has i90 gear, you'd be surprised. My brother is currently leveling his WAR as his 2nd job (it's in the 30's somewhere right now), he already has a full set of i90 gear for when he hits 50 on WAR. Myth is so incredibly easy to get these days it's not even funny. Also you can buy i90 gear relatively cheap on the market board now too (compared a couple prices with the crafted i70 and i90, it varies widely. The i70 gear can be the same price as i90, if not more expensive. i90 gear can go for less than 100k now for the record. Chump change for some people, even if they're new).

On another note, yesterday I did Tam Tara (HM) with a WAR in about i75ish gear (half his gear was hoplite). Didn't have much issue with hate since the BLM (i90+) and I (BRD i92) weren't going all out with AoEs (though we probably could have, we didn't so it was less stressful on everyone. Just took a few minutes longer). We took it slow and told him to read the torn folios since it was his first time in the dungeon, was a fun run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by File2ish

For those saying it can't be a new tank because he/she has i90 gear, you'd be surprised. My brother is currently leveling his WAR as his 2nd job (it's in the 30's somewhere right now), he already has a full set of i90 gear for when he hits 50 on WAR. Myth is so incredibly easy to get these days it's not even funny.

---

It's even faster if they aren't currently in a part of the relic grind that hogs myth, too. If they skip upgrading the relic or are still on the ATMA part, they aren't spending myth on books or alexandrite maps and it accumulates very quickly.

I was being a bit of a jerk while levelling my BRD, I was starting pulls with full burst with a lower level tank, after a few pulls he just let me tank the one I pulled. At the end I apologized and said good on him for handling it that way. I main tank and that was something I never considered doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And with attitude like this, it is no wonder that people are not getting their practice, but instead getting leveled by by fates and geared by hunts.

---

I stopped queuing in the DF as a tank because of idiotic people, especially the "I rush ahead and get my face full" and "look at my DPSSSSSSWAAAAAHHHTANKHALP!!" types. I only tank for a static group now and I doubt I'll ever queue as a tank again. It's simply NOT worth the hassle.

As for healing? Those classes are "Forever 15" on my chars...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaquelleAvarosa

Carebear QQ

---

not sure what u talkin about, sending a tank into such situations is best for his "development", either as a 50 fate grinder goin to quit tanking or he started feeling he need improvement REAL FAST

If I were that tank I would have just let them die, laugh, and keep on progressing through the dungeon. DPS have quelling strikes which is mostly used for if you overgear your tank to begin with. The only DPS that has an excuse is MNK on single targets as they have no aggro reducer.

I have no sympathy for dead dps that take aggro from a newbie tank. :I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noshpan

As a DPS, I observe what my fellow party members can do. (And since I'm currently leveling up Bard, even more so.) If I notice that the tank had difficulty with me going pants-on-head crazy with Flares and AOEs, then I hold back. If the tank and healer can handle it, then I'm like "KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONESKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN!" Better safe than sorry, after all.

---

Got a giggle out of the Kilroy. But that's generally what I do. I access the situation first couple of groups of mobs and if unless they say they want speed run or not if their action go one way or the other I act accordingly. I don't go out of my way to be impetuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coatl

quelling strikes

---

Does your group kill trash mob packs for more than 2 minutes?

Once I was constantly taking aggro from Titan HM as BRD. When I stopped dpsing after another wipe, guess what happened next? WHM took aggro from tank, used SOS, and took aggro again after this.

Seen a bunch of new tanks and a few dps to lvl 50 dungeons. Well geared tanks are doing big pulls that the dps can't handle and we wipe when my mp runs out. Or one or more dps is over geared and ripes aggro off the tank and now I am healing up 4 four ppl. More than be nice to new people, respect those in the game that are playing something other than their highly geared main. I am hoping some civility comes back to the game in the upcoming 2.4 patch. On another note, I would hate to do any atma books after the patch for a while. 100 kills and god knows how many ninjas sitting there waiting for that 1 of 3 to spawn and be wiped from the map instantly. Any one remember the beginning of 2.0 when we all had to kill the same thing to move the story forward?

... I didn't know people still level up using fates. Considering dungeons give more exp points now.
And yeah, ilvl90 gears are too easy to get.
They could have saved myths and get them or greed in coil parties or something. (Haven't seen those in forever)

Even if the PLD isn't new to tanking, no amount of Flash can hold aggro long enough until he lose it.
(I know because sometimes I purposely made my friend lose his. :P Triple flare.)
WAR is better in terms of multiple mobs (overpower and steel cyclone).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaquelleAvarosa

character limit

---

but you are not a new player, you can keep the PT alive, he BLM & MNK trust in you ! so it s all good

There are a lot of douches in this game, and in this example it was the DDs, but more often I find the tanks being the real douches (mainly because they know they are more demanded and their queues are shorter and I suppose they somehow feel special). In my last Titan HM both tanks (one of them being almost full high allagan and the other one around i105) stood in front of Titan the entire fight. They were basically both on shield oath and competed for aggro the entire match, which meant 2 tanks getting rock bustered and mountain bustered every time. It was a clear example of the level of stupidity of some people. Problems healing them? Wouldn't have had any, but basically I refused to heal them, I don't like having to do extra work because someone is being voluntarily dumb. They were lucky the other WHM was a good guy and put up with their douche attitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

but more often I find the tanks being the real douches (mainly because they know they are more demanded and their queues are shorter and I suppose they somehow feel special).

---

Umm yeah, thats exactly right. Everytime I que up, I think to myself "well I got in no problem after less than a minute so I'm going to act like a "D" and make everyone bow down to me". Assumption is the mother of all "F" up's.

Could be just having to deal with your attitude. Did you actually try and talk to them and see whats going on? Or are we left to believe that you have the superior attitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Snip.

---

Eh you get it with all roles, was just doing a normal toto rak the other day leveling up DRG a bit, whole party was cool except one thing the healer did. Our white mage decided to do dps in addition to heals (always a good thing unless you let people die) and in order to squeeze out every last drop of dps they felt the need to run up to the mobs each and every one of them and use fluid aura... and repeated it nearly every time it was ready.

Yeah, tank got my commendation that time, for silently putting up with that level of annoyance.

There's a special place in MMO Hell reserved for people who spam Fluid Aura and pet knockbacks on non-immune targets.

hehe, this reminds me of what happened to me the other day while I que'd up for Whorleater Extreme in the DF for the very first time.

Once we entered the trial; I notified everyone that it is my first time here so anything that I should keep in mind or look out for? And the funniest answer I get was, "Oh Empress, you are most likely going to die."
and others were saying, "Won't need to explain, most of the time you will die a lot."

I said alright, LOL, fair enough but a bit of explaining would help. And they did not bother, o wells!

During the boss, I just observed and use my instincts, dodging this and that. Half way on the boss, everyone died after another except me and one other dps. After all, at least I wasn't the first one to die. Muahahahaha! Last one to die, Oh Empress, you are most likely to not die first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EmpressCelene

snip.

---

Probably the nicest thing they could have said was "Watch AoE patterns, kill adds, etc." It's impossible to explain multi-phase mechanics in DF fights since no one is going to wait for paragraphs of detailed instructions to be typed.

On the other hand, if DF is used to fill the group, no one can be too upset that a player came in without reading up on the fight or watching a video. Choosing to take the time to help that person sometimes saves time in the end.

Yes definitely, well I wasn't expecting them to explain an entire paragraph. I just thought that reply was quite hilarious because in all of my DF que's, it's the way they said it, you will die so PFF! So in my head I was like oh really? are you sure? hehe k I'll show you! I had a good laugh in the end but not a mean laugh like in your face but oh the irony...

square needs to rework Quelling Strike

It doesnt reduce enough enmity regeneration. With it on, as BRD, it will either drop my enmity by a rough 10% or does nothing at all and keeps my aggro in place for the duration.

But once its gone, and tank still hasnt build enough enmity, it sky rockets way back up.

I agree that people need to start being more inviting towards newer/less skilled players, but there's GOT to be a limit to the niceness, I'll use yesterday as an example.

I was leveling my whm in dungeons, got to the Dzemael Darkhold range, queue in with DF, get a warrior tank, the entire dungeon, I'm pulling off him just with my cures (NOT Cure II, or Cure III, or even medica, just regular Cure.) I'm baffled to this and trying to figure out why

Get to the second boss, realize they're not using Defiance. I ask why not, they tell me they never learned it. (O.o) I explain that they have to have learned it if they're a warrior, as it's the l30 job quest reward along with the soulstone. They say they don't see it in their actions, so I must be wrong.

I explain it's under the "Job" tab of the action menu.

This kind of thing is happening more and more and more and more frequently. I have no problem with people new to the game, new to the dungeons, new to the trial, raid etc, I always put on my PF "Newcomers welcome" no matter what I'm doing. But THIS? There is a problem in this game, and it's not just the "mean" players that are the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilitsa

I have no problem with people new to the game, new to the dungeons, new to the trial, raid etc, I always put on my PF "Newcomers welcome" no matter what I'm doing. But THIS? There is a problem in this game, and it's not just the "mean" players that are the issue.

---

Totally agree with you, people NEED TO READ!! the abilities, learn how to use the MENUS.... and take their time exploring and getting used to how things are done. Level other jobs to 20s-30s and use cross abilities. But yeah - above all there is serious READING problem among the player base and no matter what the developer does, this will not fix the issue. It's the player base problem, dumb and dumber keep flooding the game and refuse to take time and READ + figuring out how to chain those combos.

I have met many tanks who are level 30s and still has not unlocked their jobs.. or level 50 PLD who does nothing but auto attack and never understand what abilities are. There are way too many players who are too lazy to read and reconfigure their abilities buttons, let alone doing quests every five levels...

My "main" is a Scholar. I had this happen to me in Lost City of Amdapor. The tank charged in, grabbed two huge mobs, and my eyes instantly went O_O! The whole time I was screaming, "PANIC HEAL PANIC HEAL!" in my poor brain. I asked the tank to slow down and thankfully he was nice about it. He said, "Oh sh-t, I'm so sorry!" It was nice to be able to laugh it off.

I'm now focusing on my Summoner. I enjoy healing, but I find it too nerve wracking when it's content I'm new to. I can read as many guides and watch as many videos as I want, but my poor anxiety goes through the roof when it comes to the actual "doing" part. In other MMO's I was always DPS or Tank, and felt more comfortable in those roles while learning new things. So, for the time being, I'm going to DPS my way through new content before I heal through it.

It would be nice if people could be more like the tank I mentioned above. Not everyone likes to do speed runs, and even then, you gotta make sure your whole party can handle it. I feel like crickets are chirping each time I go into a party and no one says a word. It feels... so awkward.

I'm pretty sure this is about the dungeon roulette that my friend and I ran a couple nights ago. I was the ilvl 90 monk and my friend was an ilvl 103 blm. I remember that the tank said he was new to the dungeon, not new to tanking. There were many pulls where the tank stood in a bad spot and would aggro pat by mistake, so we have to use aoe quite often. The tank didn't end up marking till near the end of the run. Honestly, I didn't bother checking his gear until way in, so my fault on that. But once I saw that he was poorly geared, I wait for about 5 sec before dpsing but I still pulled aggro. We weren't farming or speed running. Heck, I don't even have my atma on my mnk yet. We did feel pretty bad at the end since the tank can't hold aggro and I know that he really tried. I did give him a commendation once the run was over.

It's the same for experienced tanks as well! When we ask them to use QS or to chill out we get the "learn to tank" reply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beyondgrave

I remember that the tank said he was new to the dungeon, not new to tanking.

---

I asked "you new to tanking?" at the trash mob before the first boss, he replied "yes".
We still had to teach him to use Flash at least twice.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt if they are inherently making the run go by slower. All you have to do is not be a jerk, hold your tongue and give them some helpful advice. It makes a world of a difference!

Some of them won't listen to you though and tell you off and that's when you kick 'em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilitsa

This kind of thing is happening more and more and more and more frequently. I have no problem with people new to the game, new to the dungeons, new to the trial, raid etc, I always put on my PF "Newcomers welcome" no matter what I'm doing. But THIS? There is a problem in this game, and it's not just the "mean" players that are the issue.

---

Sadly it is happening more and more and it is getting more common. This is what we get though when given a character growth and leveling system so dumbed down its intelligence insulting. Players ain't really pressured into learning how their roles work or how their abilities work from the bottom to the top. Just grind FATES or leves or hunts with auto attack. Equip easy to get ilvl 90 gear and just in case if they accidentally find their job trainer, their soul crystal.

If a player is new to a particular dungeon? Absolutely I will help that player to the very end and even stop the party so we can explain boss fights to them. If someone at level 50 say's their new to the class period, especially as a tank or healer and has ilvl90+ gear? That's when I'll look at them funny o.O

Is just getting hard for a i90 tank generate more aggro than a i110 BLM or any other DPS.

To be honest I'd feel more for the new healers in certain dungeon situations where the aggro is all over the place or people want to speed run. If the healer can handle it, sunshine and rainbows. But for example; the moment Brayflox came out I learned fast that(as WHM) it was almost impossible to keep up with the damage that tanks would take on the first pull without casting Medica II and Regen then switching immediately to cleric stance and getting in position to spam Holy and even using Benediction between Holy Casts if necessary.

You're unlikely to learn this in any dungeon whilst leveling, since you don't have all the skills at your disposable yet.

Most angry-fat-kid-rage-fits are due to a players lack of understanding of what someone else has to do in a situation and/or what is required of themselves to ensure success.

Leveling up in dungeons can teach you to communicate and explain things, some players won't say anything til it's too late and that's when problems are born. But to be really honest, if someone is getting angry in a 4-man dungeon or anything that isn't serious end game content...they need to take a break from themselves and chill out, lol.

If you've had a bad day, don't take it out on other people.

If an i110 dps grabs aggro in low duty it means he done it on purpose, because he enough expert to know how the game works, know how the aggro mechanic works, know what the aggro warnings are, and what an undergeared/underleveld tank possibilities are. Let him eat his mob and die if he were too much an assh... ehmm... careless. Teach him a lesson that he still haven't learned and don't heal him