Ramuh?
http://i.imgur.com/s1MGZvX.png
about egi's models
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10-10-2014, 12:37 PMmyahele
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10-10-2014, 12:45 PMAlukahThat one has been around probably since launch, but those are arbiters, not sure if they will re-use the same design for Ramuh-egi.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
Forgot to reply to this, the thing is they will try to follow the same design choice for all egis, for the sake of consistence, it would look odd if new egis look like a scaled down version of the real primals while these three egis remain the same, either new egis will follow the same or they will have to change the first three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
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10-10-2014, 01:08 PMwinxbloom61better being bad with grammer than someone like you who kisses up to devs you probely the same type that kissed up to teachers in school huhQuote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
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10-10-2014, 01:15 PMDwillThis guy. Comedy gold right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by winxbloom61
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10-10-2014, 02:00 PMExstalI believe you kissed up to them, that's why you got away with writing like you're in grade 6. But enough about the pissing contest, if you're going to make asinine suggestions on a public forum be prepared to face heavy opposition. Especially when your suggestion has been beaten to death for a very long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by winxbloom61
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10-10-2014, 04:31 PMLaerune
I think every developer who wants to introduce a summoner class in their mmorpg, should take a good look at Aion Online. Aion Online might have failed as a P2P, but the summons and their transformation is one of the best things that they did.
Might be a good idea to take a look at Blade and Soul aswell, the summons there (kitties) have the same emotion as the player characters and they react to the player. A fine example, if you dance, they will dance with you, you cheer, they cheer. If your sad, they will come and comfort you, the same is when your summoning them, they will show up and crawl on to your side, like real life cats. -
10-10-2014, 05:33 PMRenikI did but your mind is unable to get it, it happens a lot in these forums, ppl ask for reasons, you give them, they read what they want and make their own interpretation. You may think your numbers are correct, but you're wrong, first, not everyone listed as a smn is a smn and not everyone listed as something else is a "non smn", this is your first mistake. The second is claiming we are minority, because only those who complain are in the forums; there are several reasons to register in these forums, first, if you want to post or like a post, if not, you just read w/o registering, theorycrafting, feedback, some will just come to rant a bit but they are far from being a majority, if i had to say who are the real vocal minority, i would say, anyone who likes forums, in other words, darama lovers, white knights and trolls, those are the real vocal minority, and they have little or nothing to do with the game, they just enjoy, opposing, correcting grammar, analyzing posts to counter them with nosesnse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
I will admit, the op is ranting, and she/he is not acting correctly, but that doesn't makes his/her point invalid, and i will go further, the reaction of the op is understandable, the OP looks like a firstimer in the forums, is not used to treating with the stress the people like you cause in others.
Before you say something about not being reasons to support my stance in my post.
- Your numbers are wrong.
- You are not majority here nor in the game.
- You used semantics and wrong numbers to invalidate my point instead of posting your opinion about the topic.
- This is a FF game, and FF fans are used to more detailed summons, i understand the size issue tho, a reduced size is needed for an MMO like this one.
- I said i have talked with a lot of ppl about this inside of the game, and even if the wrong bases made up in these forums tell you that a very reduced portion of the playerbase is not important, it's indeed a scaled representation of a whole group.
- Since the launch of SMN, there have been complains, from SMNs, yes those who play the job, a portion of the playerbase who sees this bad design as an issue, and want to register and post in the forums, in other words, a "scaled representation of a whole group."
And my final point, that i will define as a personal attack to ppl like you, whenever a feedback thread is made, i can recognize some names, people who post repeatedly on a thread trying to invalidate other's opinion making them look like a minority, and liking the posts of those with the same destructive mentality, but in the end, a vast majority supports positively the feedback threads, the reason they look like a minority is because they post an opinion and leave. Don't get me wrong, there are real opposers as well, but they do the same, post an opinion and leave.
If you were really saying the truth you would just post your opinion and leave, instead of attacking ppl with the overused statement of the vocal minority, semantics and made up or wrong numbers, leave your opinion here and let the devs and the real community decide. -
10-10-2014, 06:10 PMDwillI just love how you say the numbers are wrong when you either willingly or just skimmed over this part:Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
No matter how much you repeat it, the numbers are there and they aren't on your side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
You also said:
We already clarified that Most = majority and we've already established that you've got zero, zéro, cero, nada, rei, ling, form of data to back up such a claim therefore it is an invalid claim. At least my claims at least has some form of data to back it up. Anecdotal evidences (such has talking to people in game) are also nigh-worthless because they are an easily malleable and biased form of data. So unless you magically stumble upon data that would support your point of view, you are indeed part of a vocal minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
Your whole argument is based on my numbers being wrong yet you have no way of proving as much and you repeating over and over they are doesn't make it true by any stretch of the imagination.
The real community seems awfully familiar. Though, I will admit that it's quite funny to see you call me on semantics when your posts are filled with fallacies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
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10-10-2014, 06:25 PMRumpelstiltzkin
I don't play summoner, but I honestly think they really could do with some kind of rework both from a visual standpoint as well as gameplay-wise. Maybe as the summoner gets more powerful (higher level) their summons evolve as well. So when the new expansion comes out with a higher level cap summoners above 50 have their summons look a little more like primals and are a little bigger like OP suggested. Also, no this is not a "I want XI summoner" post, this is about making it up to par with pretty much any other game out there that has a class similar in style.
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10-10-2014, 06:35 PMDwillI guess this will need to be posted every page of this thread at this point :Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvinire
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10-10-2014, 06:36 PMereskigal
Couldn't agree more Dwill name pops up in every thread of some make about smn just look at his post history. Almost like he trolls any post that wants any change to smn. Anyway I for see changes to sch/smn come 3.0 when you can take 8 sch in a 8 man trail and win with easy something is wrong. SE biggest problem was they need to make the game have a more FF feel at 2.0 and putting smn at lunch help but they also needed a second healer what we end up with was rushed smn and sch should have never branch off same class. I personally don't think we will see anther 2 job that branch off class.
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10-10-2014, 06:39 PMRenikguess what, part of the purpose of my post was a bait, to know if you're insane enough to be in these forums for more than 12h w/o resting, and you passed it, this proves, why a person like you have zero credibility, i have explained why your numbers are wrong, i have explained why i think most people is not pleased with the design of the egis, and you keep trying to impose your wrong data an opinions calling mines a "lie" with nothing more to backup your stance than your impulsive "naysaying."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
I'll stop it here, i really hate using the forums the way you make me do it, ppl like you just make me sic and i can't avoid being a trolling-counter troll.
Edit: Dwill, please ignore me from now because you have been placed on my ignore list and i won't be seeing any of your posts. -
10-10-2014, 06:54 PMDeceptionsWrathNo idea where you got your percents from, but i think it'd be the other way around. Not sure why anyone would even argue about making them look better. But whatever makes you sleep better i suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
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10-10-2014, 06:57 PMDwillDisagrees with something I agree with = must be a troll. Flawless logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ereskigal
Why am I not surprised to see you resort to Ad Hominem without even knowing me in real life. Well, in the end, that just shows that you really had no leg to stand on. Good job on discrediting yourself with your endless sea of fallacies. By the way, this might be useful to you since it still seems that you haven't learned its meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
<1% of the playerbase posts on the forums. Not even the whole forum agrees that they should change. I've never seen nor heard of anyone complaining about the egis in game so while 1% seems lowish, it's not a far fetched number.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath
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10-10-2014, 07:06 PMDeceptionsWrath
I sure would love to see where everyone is grabbing these percents from. Now only 1% of players post on the forums? Source?
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10-10-2014, 07:15 PMAtomniumThe sake of consistence isn't mandatory, they totally can revamp the first three egis. SE proved in the past to be able to dramaticaly change things if needed : at FFXI release, game design of some monsters was really horrible and wrong looking, they changed it later. On FFXIV, 1.X was "too heavy for a customer's machine" and other stuffs we all know, they discarded Tanaka and we got Yoshida + 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
Consistence and Square Enix seems to not work together, which is a nice and a bad thing for us. -
10-10-2014, 07:28 PMDwillWe have 500,000 confirmed daily login which would be even more if you included people who only login once every few days.. Excluding said people who only login once every few days, you'd need at the very least 5,000 different players posting, which is obviously not the case on the english boards, which is the most active one of the lot. Now, let's say that there would be 5000 players posting on here, to say that at least 1% of the dailyplayerbase agrees with you, you'd need every single one of those to agree with you in the first place which is obviously never going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath
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10-10-2014, 08:57 PMAlukahYou can make a new thread per day with that quote if you wish, but that wont change how people feel about this, that wont stop people from giving feedback and hoping for a change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
Oh I know they can, the last part of my post reads as "or they will have to change the first three."Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
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10-10-2014, 08:59 PMDyne_FellpoolNo, but it does mean the horse is officially dead. Please stop beating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
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10-10-2014, 09:01 PMAlukahIf the recent housing issue taught people anything, should be not to trust quotes that are 1 year old (or older).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool
It's not like you are being forced to read or participate in this discussion either so... -
10-10-2014, 09:48 PMRumpelstiltzkinBecause developers can't ever change their mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool
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10-10-2014, 10:41 PMAkiza
They should change the look of the Egis so they are on par with other mmorpgs summons
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10-10-2014, 10:55 PMExstal
Unless the change is reasonable, I'll always be there to tell you why it's a stupid idea.
Quote:
Please look forward to it.
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10-10-2014, 11:14 PMAtomniumI wasn't meant to be aggressive to you sir, saw the last part of your post :p I just wanted to show examples of what SE did in the past about games and revamps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
I would most likely be more aggressive after reading things like below though.
On a side note I respect your opinion Dwill even if it seems to not be the same of some people in this thread (myself included) but yeah... you seems to get pleasure at trolling people who want to see SMN getting revamps/improvements either on the dot side or/and the egis-look side...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
Not wanting to see the job changing the way it work is totally understandable and it's absolutely your rights but I don't get why you would attack people about a cosmetic change on egis... Let's pretend you re in love with garuda-egi style (huh?!) would you say no to something more Garuda related? (and not what we have right now : a diseased and glowing green bird). -
10-10-2014, 11:16 PMParodine
Yes, the egi models are underwhelming. Visually SMN is rather unimpressive. But it does its DPS job well, so the design team sees little incentive to redesign things aesthetically.
Hopefully they got the message and future egi designs look more detailed. Or they implement a future system as SMN levels the designs change, etc. But that's all we can hope for at this point.
Or future modding makes it possible, dunno.
Everyone wants their opinion to be substantiated, but unless you actually do a player-wide poll, either side guessing at statistics is silly. Since not complaining out loud =/= Happy with the design.Quote:
<1% of the playerbase posts on the forums. Not even the whole forum agrees that they should change. I've never seen nor heard of anyone complaining about the egis in game so while 1% seems lowish, it's not a far fetched number.
Being shouted down as a 'vocal minority' is so dumb regardless of the topic for this reason. -
10-10-2014, 11:23 PMExstalI don't understand this. Why is telling people that unfeasible changes that could cause more people to be angered than pleased..trolling? I believe that Dwill and I have nothing against QoL changes to any class that doesn't require tripling the work devs already have. Put forth a good idea and you'll find even people like us to agree (and in some cases disagree anyway). Put forth a stupid or wasteful idea and may your god have mercy on your soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
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10-10-2014, 11:56 PMhaseo0730
Been playing as SMN main for almost 8 months. Yes, I do want that, what the OP is stating
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10-11-2014, 12:31 AMAtomniumSince when replacing a model and its textures is unfeasible and even hard by a dev to a game? It can be done to the customer client by an amateur! And how would it broke the game at a point that people would flame the forum because egis would actually look better? (please don't argue about garuda-egi style, this poor thing look so wrong).Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
On a side note : Who re you to actually tell people that their ideas re wrongs /unfeasibles or will lead to angers, since neither you nor me have a clue of what will really happen... It's all up to the dev team, all we can do as players is to give "ideas" right here.
Right, would you agree to make garuda-egi actually looking like more garuda or at least being relevant to the main model? And not like a glowing green vulture!Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Also, please don't use the "onoes, poor devs got already so many works to do /sadface, let's not make them focus on useless changes /emo-eyes" If they can spare development times for new mounts and fluffy minions design every d*mn patches... They totally can revamp 3 existing models to something better with littles efforts. -
10-11-2014, 12:39 AMwinxbloom61
im perfectly fine with them not being like the primals but at the very least they should look similer as some one said before a example of whati mean is the chibi ramuh's in the fight. the only egi we have that looks any where near what they should is titan and thats only the white things on him
personally id prefer a time system on summons instend of them being out till they are killed but thats just me ~_~ -
10-11-2014, 02:52 AMCGMidlanderThey probably would, except make the egi mono-coloured like the other egis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
Titan Egi for example, is a shiny, tiny, yellow version of the granite gaolers. -
10-11-2014, 03:03 AMAlukah"Unfeasible changes" is your opinion, don't forget that, you cannot decide what is wasteful either, you don't know what devs can or cannot do, you don't know how much work it would take to change this. I think it would be better to focus our agreement and disagreements on the change itself and let the real devs worry if it can or not be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
And that reply was specifically for Dwill, not Dwill and you, Dwill has pretty obvious posting habits, it doesn't even require a deep analysis to his post history to see it. -
10-11-2014, 03:15 AMDwillIt has nothing to do with trolling. That word has become so horribly misused that it seems everyone has forgotten its meaning. I'm just stating my point of view and said point of view seems to anger people because it disagrees with theirs. That's not trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
In a MMO, something that is terribly broken (Warrior on release) or hated to a degree big enough (Atmas) will create waves of complaints. The amount of complaints if something really was broken with summoner would be much worse than they are now. So yes, it is a vocal minority, whether you like it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parodine
Exactly. I disagree with some people, agree with some. If someone brings forth genuine, well thought ideas, I might agree with them, even if they warrant a change in playstyle for the class. I will actually respect people with a different opinion (if it looks like they have a clue) than mine. A lot of people should take a page out of Spellbinder's book. While we don't agree on all the same thing for summoner, he at least brings forth his arguments to back up his claims and I respect the guy for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
It's not a matter of hard, long or costly. Changing something that is aesthetic can be a dangerous thing to do since it can create just as more harm than it would try to solve. Yes there are people who despises the Egis. But there are also people who likes them. Everything here is in the eye of the beholder. Changing something like in game model of summons isn't trivial. You'd need to redesign the whole models, more than likely change their animations. To know what to change them to you have to have meeting with your art team to get their insight, with your regional teams to get the feedback they have in various region, with your lore team to make sure what the other two team have can be implemented with breaking the lore. Once all of this is done, you have to coordinate with your project manager to assign people to the project, assign an time table to said team. Before all of this can begin, Yoshida would have to give his okay for the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
All of these things share one thing in common: time. With all the projects and ideas Square Enix have for this game, time is an extremely valuable resource. It's one they cannot afford on spending on something that might a specific subset of player happier. For all we know, they could make it even worse than it actually is. Square Enix doesn't want to cross that line, especially since it seems to be working just fine as it is now because let's be honest, it is impossible to please everyone no matter how awesome things might look or how a game might feel.
People have to see this from Square Enix's perspective. Not everything is as simple as it seems, especially in a business like a gaming company.
On my own point of view for the Egis' appearance, I think it would help tremendously if they could have HD textures. I think it would help alleviate a lot of the issue players have over their looks while using a resource that the rest of the game could use as well. The thing is that I think changing them is a waste of the developers' time when it could be used on much better things that affects the playerbase as a whole but in the end, if they do end up changing them, I won't even be mad over it.
Read the little wall-o-text above this quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
Yes, I disagree with a lot of people. No it's not a secret. Yes people hate it. No I don't care because the people's approval is not what I'm looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alukah
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10-11-2014, 03:27 AMwinxbloom61
if people like the way egis are they need to get seriose help because there ugly as hell look at the game everything perfect looking graphics and all then looka t the egis and then go back and play all the other final fantasy's. The people who say they like the egis now are probley the same people who dont even play as a summoner most the time so they just dont care its not that they like the way they look.
in point the people are like i dont care and they are fine the way they are seriosely hasnt played any other final fantasy probley quit wow and saw this was a online game so joined. -
10-11-2014, 03:50 AMgamesmartI don't think we're ever going to change OP's stance on this matter. That said, I still don't mind the look of the egis - aesthetic appeal is subjective, after all, and I'd rather it be "ugly" than lore-breaking. It's not like Ifrit and Titan are all that handsome in their full form anyway. (Yes, I have played previous FF games, and yes, I do play SMN from time to time. That doesn't change my opinion, which is just that - an opinion. And no, I'm fairly certain I don't need help.)Quote:
Originally Posted by winxbloom61
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10-11-2014, 03:54 AMParodineHowever you define a 'majority', I guess. Not quite enough data to be representative either way for me. Certainly not for either of us to say based on anecdotes and vague measurements of forum posts. A bit odd of a point considering most of yours are fairly logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
I don't think the majority of the complaints are that SMN is 'broken'. Just that, aesthetically, it could use some work. Whether or not the design time eventually deems that worthy is up to people posting and 'making waves' as you say.
But yes, anyone complaining SMN is 'broken' is more than a bit daft. It performs it's job very well. -
10-11-2014, 04:02 AMNintenPyjak64I like the Egis how they are now. Reason being is I don't play for graphics. I play for gameplay. I don't need serious help because it's my OPINION. It does not matter in the least bit how they look. The ONLY thing I don't like about them is how little use Ifrit has to Garuda. The only reasonable change I'd like to see would just be a reevaluation of Ifrit's skill set and survivability.Quote:
Originally Posted by winxbloom61
Redesigning the Egis is just a waste of time and resources for more important things. The devs already gave their response to the matter. -
10-11-2014, 04:03 AMwinxbloom61
making them look BETTER DOSNT BREAK LORE if you make them as strong as the primals that breaks lore sure but appearces never break lore im sorry but its retarded to say oh if u change the way this look it breaks lore A LOOK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LORE PERIOD and you joking right Ifirt is sexy as a primal i mean titans ugly but not as ugly as the egi I dont like titan that much myself Id marry Ifirt in a heart beat and be his wife cuz his primal self is sexy as hell
let me make this clear them looking the way they do kinda breaks the lore of summoners in general
sure they shouldnt look as primals in size or power shouldnt
as someone quated the dev we have a percent of there power so in that they should be the size / or ewight of the primal or age (in ramuhs case) however THIS IS NOT A EXCUSE FOR THE DEV TEAM TO BE LAZY AND NOT EVEN TRY TO CREATE A DECENT LOOKING EGI FOR THAT primal 1% of power ive doodled better looking ifirts than the ifirt we got -
10-11-2014, 04:15 AMwinxbloom61
wasnt talking about what you said nin
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10-11-2014, 04:16 AMNintenPyjak64I apologize for that then. Using the quote system can go a long way in terms of misinterpretationsQuote:
Originally Posted by winxbloom61
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10-11-2014, 04:22 AMwinxbloom61
but as for not playing for looks sure alot of people do that but final fantasy does have a large base of people who are roleplayers who do play for the way things look
thats a reason for not caring either way but not a reason to opesse them being fixed as for time and resources THEY HAVE TIME TO CREATE USELESS MINIONS which dosnt effect game play what so ever so they got time to remodel