Requirement for Coil Not needed for Expansion But...

Yoshida stated that Coil will not be required for anything related to the expansion. All expansion material will be separate from the older stuff.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

I just don't like people who stonewall others by forcing them to watch a video or read a text guide.

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You probably shouldn't be playing an MMO that takes teamwork.

Really they should just add a chatroom to FFXIII and all these kids would be happy.

Really...you can't expect to beat content in less than 3 tries unless you're buying. Or, like someone else posted earlier, unless you're lucky enough to be carried by an overgeared group needing one person.

You realize Turn 5 used to be a lot harder? People still beat it. It took a lot of time and effort, but it was doable. 3 tries is just...unrealistic. People worked for weeks to beat it. 3 tries wasn't even half a night to my group...we used to run 3-4 hours, 3-4 times a week, and when we beat it we had gone every day that week because we knew we were close.

If you don't want to put the time and effort into beating it, then raiding isn't for you. This game is generally geared towards more casual players, and there is plenty of other things to do outside of raids. I get lore is important to you, but if you really won't put the time in, then just look up the cutscenes. There are plenty of copies on youtube.

But, if you are willing, join a PF learning party. Or do what you did before and create your own, just don't expect to win in a few tries. Hell, even join a DF pt. I saw new players in the DF all the time while trying to gear up my alt.

I mean really, you CAN'T expect much after three tries. I can't stress that enough. That's in no way enough time to learn mechanics and beat the last boss of first coil. T6-9 is a whole lot harder than T5. So, if you're not willing to put the effort in...I'm sorry, but don't complain to us about it.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Even ppl who play on console use voice chat via phone or laptop

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I realize that. I was commenting more on an attitude coming out of that era of gamer. When I played XI, I remember people in my linkshell threatening to flat out quit if we even had an OPTION for people who wanted to, to use vent. We weren't even requiring it. Baffling.

In FFXI beating older content was never a requirement to start on the new expansion. There were a few side quests that required it for extra bits of story, fun fights, and cool gear like the Apocalypse Nigh storyline, but they were always added after the fact, and never part of the main storyline, or required in order to move on to a new expansion. You didn't even have to finish the main storyline, or any of the previous expansions to be able to start on new ones with the exception of Zilart, the first expansion, which required a certain amount of progression in the main storyline, but far from completion. I would assume that they would do the same thing with FFXIV, especially considering that each main storyline addition to FFXIV after 2.0 has not required that you even beat hardmode Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan to be able to start on them. They may put in hard-ish raiding content that required coil be cleared, but the main storyline will probably be open to anyone who picks up the game.

It honestly baffles me why people still complain about not being able to clear this fight.

Firstly, If you can't do this, You have no chance in Turn 6 and beyond.

Secondly, It couldn't be any easier to clear it now. You have 20% echo, No lockout so experienced players can enter and help you, Plus searching for 'FFXIV Turn 5 Guide' on Youtube yields 40,900 results. Hell you can even pay for a win if you're that keen to fail at the content it unlocks for you.

It's laughable that despite all of the above, people STILL complain about it being too hard. If you haven't beaten it by now and take the game seriously, There's a very good reason. There's a solution for any excuse you bring to the table of why you lack the clear.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

If you can't beat Turn 5, you're going to have huge problems with any new raid content being added.
Turn 5 is VERY easy compared to the The Second Coil of Bahamut.

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Melusine and Nael maybe, but I beat Rafflesia as the off-tank the first instance I ever set foot in T6. Without a VoIP program either. (Instance as in "we wiped a few times but did not leave between first entry and killing the boss"). And while I haven't got there yet (Melusine's first set of adds are hell on earth to tank) my Legacy friends who're -way- ahead of me consider T8 so easy that when I brought it up they referred to it as "free loot". Comparatively it took me -months- to finally clear Twintania as WHM/SCH. Even with the Echo I'd rate her as the third-toughest boss in the game, or even second-toughest, after Nael and possibly Melusine.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Melusine and Nael maybe, but I beat Rafflesia as the off-tank the first instance I ever set foot in T6. Without a VoIP program either. (Instance as in "we wiped a few times but did not leave between first entry and killing the boss"). And while I haven't got there yet (Melusine's first set of adds are hell on earth to tank) my Legacy friends who're -way- ahead of me consider T8 so easy that when I brought it up they referred to it as "free loot". Comparatively it took me -months- to finally clear Twintania as WHM/SCH. Even with the Echo I'd rate her as the third-toughest boss in the game, or even second-toughest, after Nael and possibly Melusine.

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You can kill Echo'd Twintania with 4 people. I wouldn't rank that as the 3rd hardest boss personally.

And in case you don't believe me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ckBlM5K3I

Raiding in general, requires patience and the willingness to learn/adapt/improve/evolve.
If you're lacking in any of those areas, you will hit a wall and it won't be a fun experience for you.
Raiding is typically separate from casual content, however. Specially in FFXIV. So I do not see it as a possible requirement for future expansions.

If you really want to raid, though, follow the above requirements.
You may have to start your own group or join a learning party if you're having issues with the mechanics.
T5 is a fun fight once you learn it. But everyone has to be on the same page to clear it. There are no handouts, unless your group is good to the point they don't need you and leave your body on the floor to prevent additional weight (IE; You failing at Twisters/Divebombs/Liquid Hell. Which would innevitably get others killed).

I went in with fc group (6 people to be exact including me. The other 2 were filler to get us in the door and they left) and we downed it in 4 tries with me lagging and it was super bad lag too. We were in TS and we were laughing at how I was teleporting during divebombs. That was my first session and I did it on monk. Currently making attempts with tank so I can help others through. It's all atittude and desire. If I can do it lagging hardcore with only 6 people you can too. Just practice.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

...Just practice.

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thats the exact opposite of what this person wants to do.

"i didnt win my first 3 tries, make it easier so i can win without the effort other people have put in" is what the topic of this thread boils down to.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Melusine and Nael maybe, but I beat Rafflesia as the off-tank the first instance I ever set foot in T6. Without a VoIP program either. (Instance as in "we wiped a few times but did not leave between first entry and killing the boss"). And while I haven't got there yet (Melusine's first set of adds are hell on earth to tank) my Legacy friends who're -way- ahead of me consider T8 so easy that when I brought it up they referred to it as "free loot". Comparatively it took me -months- to finally clear Twintania as WHM/SCH. Even with the Echo I'd rate her as the third-toughest boss in the game, or even second-toughest, after Nael and possibly Melusine.

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It's not exactly an easy fight to someone new to it, but the mechanics are fairly easy to learn.

Most parties originally struggled with it mainly due to their gear or not knowing their jobs properly.

Others just struggle with mechanics, but to Rank T5 as a "truly difficult boss fight" is laughable at best.

You seem more intent on having SE nerf the encounter, instead of learning the fight yourself. You said you tried a total of 3 times, and stopped because you didn't beat it. That's just plain silly. Do you really think these raid encounters were meant to be learned and killed within 3 tries?

Even Collision doesn't beat fights, that they're new to, in 3 tries. Put forth the time and effort to get your kill, or stop bothering with it. T5 is far from difficult. It's entry-level now, thanks to echo. If you can't get T5 down due to lack of patience, there's no way you'll stand a chance in SCoB.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Comparatively it took me -months- to finally clear Twintania as WHM/SCH. Even with the Echo I'd rate her as the third-toughest boss in the game, or even second-toughest, after Nael and possibly Melusine.

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What you learnt from Twin carries over to SCoB. In fact, for us, Turn 9 took us the least amount of tries overal, compared to 6-8 to clear. Due to what we had learnt from previous turns. Most of T9 mechanics are a variation of mechanics from previous turns, including BCoB.

The OPs post makes no sense :D Main story and side storys (aka Coil and CT) will end with 2.5. Expansion will be a totally new main story with new zones and new end game content. Coil itself will end with 2.4 and the final BCoB.

off topic: I think would be fun if they did a "Hard Mode" of the three coils set at the expacs new max level, with new mechanics. As an optional raid. Even if the rewards are slightly lower Ilvl than the new raid/s. Minimal dev time to create additional end-game content and allow new players with the xpac to actually run coil, as with level cap raise, no-one will be running them.

What made it even more interesting for me was it was my first time doing it. I had watched a couple of videos but to be honest wasn't able to retain a lot of the information gleaned from them. That coupled with the lag made for a very, different, shall we say run through. I explained to my FC leader that I had no experience and was facing lag issues as we had previously set up raid time for after SCOB runs that night. I was watching their stream as best I could to try and learn what I could in the event I ever started SCOB. Well the stream wouldn't keep up so I decided to turn it off and just goof off for a bit. So comes the time for T5 and he's telling me not to worry about the lag, they'll carry me. That they wanted to see if they could 6 man it now with gear upgrades. I told him I didn't want a carry that I wanted to learn it and to do the best I could given the circumstances. After four tries we got it down and even though I died a couple of times on the final one (clear) I was able to adapt to the lag somewhat so I could time the divebomb dodging as well as conflags and liquid hells.

Ultimately, like I said in my previous post, you have to want to get it down (desire) and you have to be willing to fail to get there. No one ever learned from being perfect and when you stop learning is when you are dead. The drive to keep trying (attitude) on top of not blowing a gasket because you didn't one shot it will make the process much easier. Cooler heads prevail in the end.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

What made it even more interesting for me was it was my first time doing it. I had watched a couple of videos but to be honest wasn't able to retain a lot of the information gleaned from them. That coupled with the lag made for a very, different, shall we say run through. I explained to my FC leader that I had no experience and was facing lag issues as we had previously set up raid time for after SCOB runs that night. I was watching their stream as best I could to try and learn what I could in the event I ever started SCOB.

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Took me a couple of tries for divebombs when we were learning t5, just wouldn't click at first. Then it did after a few wipes XD MAde turn 9 DBs easier after going through that learning experience previously.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

What made it even more interesting for me was it was my first time doing it. I had watched a couple of videos but to be honest wasn't able to retain a lot of the information gleaned from them. That coupled with the lag made for a very, different, shall we say run through.

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Exactly this. The main reason I don't want to continue trying is because of the jerks in the community that keep asking if you've watched videos, know the strat, etc. I'll always say "I've watched videos / read guides, but I don't remember half the strategy." They'll kick me immediately. I'm being hoest, I don't like not being honest.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Exactly this. The main reason I don't want to continue trying is because of the jerks in the community that keep asking if you've watched videos, know the strat, etc. I'll always say "I've watched videos / read guides, but I don't remember half the strategy." They'll kick me immediately. I'm being hoest, I don't like not being honest.

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If it's a "clear" group that has a "kill experience" only requirement, you shouldn't be applying.
Those groups want things done quick due to time constrains or because they plan to farm; not to teach. You need to join a learning group.

We are not asking you to remember half or all the strategies, but if you make more than one "progression" parties in PF (you start them so it's your rules, gbye jerks) - yes it will take more than 3 attempts into one session.

It takes some peeps Months to clear it.

If you are not ready to invest the time, as this game is a time investment no matter what you do, I have no choice but to side with others and.. you might end up having to pay for T5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13. (Might toss in a few EX Primals)

I am pretty sure you can find decent people that are willing to take the time to go by phase, then you wipe, then next phase since you learned the first one etc..

Me and my FC mate just cleared it 2 weeks ago. Not because we had a hard time by ourselves, it was harder to setup a whole group to progress and kill.

So roll up your sleeves, get into it, and you shall prevail and get your win, and comeback to brag about it right here! ;)

Good luck to you.

Here is my question, you say you have no interest in doing T5 and beyond, so why do you care about clearing it? There is nothing in the game other than second coil that requires T5 to be killed, and you don't plan on doing it, so why does it matter? How can you expect people to know what the DEV team is planning for the SECOND expansion, when we already barely know anything about the first?

Coil is geared towards the more hardcore type players, the ones who want a challenge. If you don't have the desire to try to learn the fight, then you don't deserve to beat it, plain and simple. Especially because it isn't roadblocking you from anything other than more coil, which would inevitably leave you in the same situation. If you really want a win that badly for whatever reason, i suggest you save up for a carry. The only thing i could see you wanting to clear it for are the cut-scenes, and there's youtube for that. (insert 'don't tell me to watch youtube' rant here) Plus, once you see the T5 cutscene, you're going to want to see 6-9, which getting a carry for those may end up a little pricey. ;)

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Exactly this. The main reason I don't want to continue trying is because of the jerks in the community that keep asking if you've watched videos, know the strat, etc. I'll always say "I've watched videos / read guides, but I don't remember half the strategy." They'll kick me immediately. I'm being hoest, I don't like not being honest.

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If I could help you I would however the best I can do is offer advice. In all seriousness/fairness to your situation as well as others situation I say this: Make a PF group listing stating that it is a learning party. Also make it clear you have some minor experience to the point that you reached and someone (preferably the tanks or healers or both) with clear experience (possible multiple clears) would be greatly appreciated to help iron out the proverbial wrinkles. Sometimes honesty will set people off but you are more likely to catch more flak from dishonesty especially in Coil runs.

You may not get a group tomorrow or even this week but what have you got to lose? If you are adverse to that tactic you could, and I say this only as a last resort, use DF for experience. Now it is true that you'll be more likely to NOT get the clear you will however be more likely to run into those that have experience with it. You may very well get vote kicked. But that is a gamble on any instance/raid. Not everyone is a asshat. Sometimes what holds you back is your own concern that it won't go the way you hope or people will be rude (see vote kick/asshats) but is that really any different from real life in general? If you learn better from first hand experience like I do, while it may not be ideal, DF would actually go a long way toward your goal of getting the clear. At the very least you would get a better hands on idea of do's and do not's.

You are the master of how you proceed from here. T5 really isn't that difficult to get the hang of it is just menacing because of the content it is associated with and the amount of mechanics you need to learn. Which for the most part isn't that much if you watch what you are doing. Honestly the toughest thing I had to deal with was timing on dreadknights as a monk. Conflags, twisters, liquid hells, neurolinks, divebombs, etc. are just watch/timing mechanics that come with practice. The more you encounter them the easier it becomes to adapt to them.

Wait you get to hatches and liquid hells? That's basically a clear. Seriously... It took my team and myself quite a while to get each phase down good and then the transition to twisters.
Now we even have one that got hit by DBs 99% of the time(and he has issues due to lag since bad ISP and as far away as possible from the servers) not getting hit once...

Took us a few months with atleast once per week a 90 min session of training and learning(at times even 4 hours). It helps to get to know the people you are playing with,
how they will react, what can go wrong for each person and so on. Now atleast a couple of us have 5+ clears with the rest getting there as well. And we will be starting on t6 this friday.
Hell we even managed to carry someone at one point(and I do mean they were dead most of the fight).

Unlike the rest I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying it takes effort, focus, coordination and will to do it.

It took me 4 sessions to clear titan ex... it took me probably a dozen sessions over 2 months to clear garuda ex and it took me one session to clear iffy ex(in DF no less).

Best you can do is start your own LS and invite people that you do stuff in PF that you see can handle themselves and invite them there. That way you will always have a decent pool of people to call upon for help.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Then why not pull a demon wall, like said above? I'll be honest, the dreadknights and snakes are the only reasons why I'm no good with it, as well as the 5x liquid hell. Already tried turn 5 three times, one of which was with a static of someone else's, which failed completely (Twice)

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almost took me 2 months to beat t5 1st time and never gave up

and you want to beat it in 3 tries?

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

See opening post.



Same, especially in open world pvp MMORPGs like WildStar, World of Warcraft, RIFT. I will be transferring to the Mateus World in the meantime, and see if I can't complete it with DF only.

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No offense, but I don't think server changing will do anything more than waste your 18 dollars in this case, using DF, you'd get put into the same pit that you'd get put into where you are now, I -just- beat T5 myself, and most my FC is still struggling with it, it's something you just have to bash your head against over and over and over again, don't give up, keep trying, try some more, you will eventually get it

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

almost took me 2 months to beat t5 1st time and never gave up

and you want to beat it in 3 tries?

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That's about how long my FC has been at it now, I only beat it because a friend's group needed a replacement healer so I went along with them to help them clear it out

Not surprised nobody wants to let you join their PF with the attitude you've got.

The thing is, I think there are quite a lot of OP-minded people, which of course is sad to say the least. I am more interested in what led to this mindset. It would help SE create endgame content because I have a feeling SE creates content to please 2 groups. We end up having medium-difficult content: too hard for some, too easy for others. I still vouch for two modes.

The only thing I agree with OP is that it's hard to ask others for help, at least it is a pain for me to ask for help. But to say that echo doesn't help and SE need to remove mechanics such as twisters or divebombs is plain dumb. I cleared coil 5 just recently due to big help from echo that makes dreadknight phase super short and practically you just only need to be able to avoid divebombs and twisters now - all dps checks are long gone already in T5.
About "casual players having hard time in endgame content" - I literally am staring mouth open at some of my fc members that beat content like monsters now though even 2 weeks ago they derped at everything they did. People that actually try as best they can to learn at least from their own mistakes - they do beat endgame content and get more skilled and self confident for the next content to come out.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Your expectations are not consistent with reality.

But they DID just release an easy-mode Coil for you, specifically.

- Go to www.youtube.com
- Type into the search bar: "FFXIV Turn 5 kill BLM perspective w/cutscenes"
- Get an old mouse/keyboard or controller and make sure that they are disconnected from your computer or playstation
- Hit "Play" and "Full-screen"
- Go ahead and press the buttons as you normally would, the game will correct your errors for you.

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Can you please design the next MMORPG? I like your vision of content.

lol yes you will need to down t5 before you can walk into a store to buy the expansion.

I thought everyone knew that.

They check your achievement at the door.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

The thing is, I think there are quite a lot of OP-minded people, which of course is sad to say the least. I am more interested in what led to this mindset.

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Nothing led to it - FF gamers just haven't been exposed to proper progression raiding like many who came from other mmos. It didn't exist in XI. Sure there were interesting nms, but by the time it all came to the US they were largely figured out by the JP community, nothing was challenging as far as having shifting phases such as we see here, and there wasn't a whole lot of dodging necessary for things.

I've got my own opinions about SE's designs, but 3 tries isn't even a warm up to some of the raiding guilds I have run with. I'm stuck on turn 5 as well, but not because I refuse to bang my head against the boss. I'm stuck because it's been hard to get 7 other people who have progression raiding in mind and will do pull after pull after pull and not drop party after 1 wipe.

I'm actually disappointed in this community. This isn't the group of people who got pwned by a rabbit outside of Sandy shortly after character creation, picked themselves up and ran back in for more. I don't even recognize this group.

No wonder you can't clear it, with that kind of attitude. Go ahead, do yourself and the rest of us players a favor and just unsub. If you're not willing to put any effort into something, then you deserve to get and have nothing.

No one else think that this is a troll post? A pretty bad troll post at that.

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Originally Posted by Beyondgrave

No one else think that this is a troll post? A pretty bad troll post at that.

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Why do you think we are contributing? Some nice entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm actually disappointed in this community. This isn't the group of people who got pwned by a rabbit outside of Sandy shortly after character creation, picked themselves up and ran back in for more. I don't even recognize this group.

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fear the rabbit!

http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/int.../imgs/im11.jpg