Time to bring back 1.23 multi-job relic style dungeons

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Originally Posted by Millerna

That's because AV and SV are level synched, whereas Hullbreaker is not. If they'd sync your iLvl down to the recommended iLvl for Hullbreaker, it wouldn't be quite as easy.

As for changing jobs within a dungeon.. There were already lots of people excluded from groups because of not having a certain job levelled in 1.x . In ARR it would be far worse.

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Actually it wont, ARR leveling to stupidly fast. The average already have 3 jobs siting at i85 or better so this would work just find IMHO.

So, what I am hearing is that the OP wants to bring back one of the worst aspects of 1.xx into this game? Okay.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Run run run, sleep the frog, run run run, stand on circle and sleep. repeat until getting to a boss, change job and kill it.

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This sound like good old Dzemael, the first lv50 dungeon ^^
From entrace until mid boss it was possible not to kill anything

Cutters Cry and Aurun Vale were a bit trickier.

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

It seems T3 with a boss fight.
Were these dungeon really meant to be like this?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiTgSNsjMXw

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

That was how it did work due to the lack of speed run prevention; more of an issue of old XIV engine that is no longer an issue in ARR.

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It was not because the engine. SE designed the 1.0 dungeons for speedruns. There were even rewards for speedruns.
A extra chest at the end with the possibility to be a darklight body gear in it (20 minutes or less) and 100% dropchance for the relict quest item (17 minutes or less)

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I can see it now in Party Finder:
XXX Run: Must have WHM, PLD, BRD, and BLM leveled, no exception! Will check and kick!!!

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Soooo what's the difference in what OP is suggesting then some in DF saying " must x-I level or the two strike rule when everyone's knows that people have lag issues off and on. This would be different. I'd say it would be to see it ARR, would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Genyi

Soooo what's the difference in what OP is suggesting then some in DF saying " must x-I level or the two strike rule when everyone's knows that people have lag issues off and on. This would be different. I'd say it would be to see it ARR, would be nice.

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Pears and apples.

@Rogue Not sure if you know but any class lower level than your highest (<50) gets a 50% bonus exp from kills, add there full runs + pretty much a full level from low level roulette every day means that with your amount of time played you could have all battle classes level 50, for DoH all you need is leves, you can pay someone to craft you leve items, it wouldn't take more than a couple hours to hit 50 on any crafting class, DoL is somewhat similar in terms of speed as long as you have leve allowances. Leveling in this game is a joke.

That said I completely disagree with OP.

I would like to see this making a return too. Kinda missed how multi-jobs playing from old version.

It's not actually really hard to pull this off back then. Just need to invest some time to get better gears. GC gears back then could provide fillers until you get Darklight stuff, as long as you met minimum stat required to pull this off. And it's actually fun too, you get to learn performing other jobs quickly too.

I have to admit that current dungeon settings are too monotone, felt lacking of varieties. Plus the funny thing from old version is that you can also change to DoH class too, for repairing most of the time though, and this is also already addressed in current version with players can auto repair them as long as they have required level to do that.

Kinda funny that some replies here felt like they were a bit reluctant, worried that these would create the old problems back.

As I have said over and over again, XIV 1.0 are my 1st MMO experience, and I do find things happening in 1.0 are quite enjoyable. Would it be that players who happens to play alot of MMO before this one, are more comfortable with other (old) MMO rules in which some of them are forced into XIV-ARR rather than experience something that's outside their comfortable zone? And people who are new to MMO are more enjoying changes than old ones?

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Originally Posted by Felis

It was not because the engine. SE designed the 1.0 dungeons for speedruns. There were even rewards for speedruns.
A extra chest at the end with the possibility to be a darklight body gear in it (20 minutes or less) and 100% dropchance for the relict quest item (17 minutes or less)

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Actually it was a instance engine issue. They wanted to move people through instances ASAP to prevent overload of the server so they added time limited and gave incentives.

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Originally Posted by Genyi

Actually it wont, ARR leveling to stupidly fast. The average already have 3 jobs siting at i85 or better so this would work just find IMHO.

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Levelling speed makes no difference.. If someone doesn't like monk for example, and doesn't want to spend time levelling/gearing it, but certain fights basically require multiple monks, that person will be excluded from parties. And I do believe that a large amount of players don't want to level jobs they don't like.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Interestingly enough, someone revived an old JP thread that talked about how meaningless current endgame is setup, when avoiding instance wipes is more important then having actual strat to defeat a boss.

I believe this is the right time to request YoshiP to bring back the 1.23 relic style dungeon that we enjoyed so much.

Instead of spearheading down the path where all the "static" groups wants from you is BiS with only one job, reintroduce the 1.23 style dungeon runs where we must be able to effectively perform multiple jobs to complete a multi-phase dungeon.

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Your first clue that this was stupid was reading when they say "more important to avoid instant wipes then have a strategy to defeat the boss." Read that a few times and think about it. Lol.

So you're saying I MUST have more than one class leveled to play? Heck no. Don't force leveling multiple jobs to 50 on people.

I have a friend in my FC who is probably one of the most dedicated players of this game I know, and he still only has Black Mage at 50, with the other classes only levelled to pick up his cross-class skills.

It isn't a matter of time like some people have said, it's a matter of enjoyment and if he enjoys playing Black Mage and only Black Mage, why should he be forced into levelling other jobs just so that he can participate in content?

While I admit that I would find this fun, as I have every battle class levelled to 50 except Archer/Bard, I just don't think this is in keeping with the accessible game that Yoshi-P wants ARR to be.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Yeah, not everyone can devote their entire life to playing this game.

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Unless you play this game for only 2 hours a day...there's a good possibility you just choose not to level other classes or gear them up. ARR makes it so painless if you "devote your life to it" you're doing something horrendously wrong.

Hate to say it, and I know many of you likely will get PO with this remark, but it does seem that most of you are short sighted, and likely will not play ARR for a long period.

Seriously, just how long are you going to play a single job for? Days, weeks, months? ARR has been out for over an year, and many of you are still having issues about leveling a 2nd job to 50?!? Yet, people reached lvl 50 in 2-3 days during the initial release weeks when we had to wait 4+ hrs just to log in. Gear? You can get ALL your DoW/M jobs to iL90 in <8 hrs of game play. IOW, moot issue. Yes, I understand some of you do not play a lot, but if that is true, then being able to do all of the end-game seriously shouldn't be your focus anyway, and SE will only nerf the contents as they move forwards with their patches anyway.

Issues w 1.x speed run? That was the 1.x engine, and it is no longer an issue with 2.x; therefore, I don't see that being a problem unless SE wants to design a given dungeon as such.

In a very simplified overview, ATM, other then the fact that each boss looks different, they all pretty much just requires your whole party to be in almost perfect sync, and it is the same 1T:1H:2DPS scheme for them all.

Think people, do you really want SE to keep rolling out the same dodge/move/avoid/instant death content for years to come?

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

I believe this is the right time to request YoshiP to bring back the 1.23 relic style dungeon that we enjoyed so much.

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Being forced to speed run Dzemael Darkhold fighting as little as possible was not fun. Imagine if the entire game was nothing but the Brayflox speed runs everyone did before 2.3. That's the wonderful "1.23 style dungeon" the OP is remembering with rose-colored glasses.

But, there are some aspects of 1.23's instanced dungeons that deserve to be brought back:

1. Full parties
2. Challenging boss fights -- Remember the Deepvoid Slave (now known as Taulurd) and Batraal in 1.18? They are complete jokes today compared to back then. And it had nothing to do with animation lock or interface lag. Those fights were 100% well designed challenging mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Imagine if the entire game was nothing but the Brayflox speed runs everyone did before 2.3. That's the wonderful "1.23 style dungeon" the OP is remembering with rose-colored glasses.

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Correction, that was what all those sees the "bad" of 1.2x and didn't want it back mention. I didn't mention a word about speed runs in the OP. And I clearly have stated later in post 7 this problem has already been addressed with the 2.x engine.

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2. Challenging boss fights -- Remember the Deepvoid Slave (now known as Taulurd) and Batraal in 1.18? They are complete jokes today compared to back then. And it had nothing to do with animation lock or interface lag. Those fights were 100% well designed challenging mechanics.

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^^ This ^^, is what 1.2x offered, that 2.x currently lacks.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Hate to say it, and I know many of you likely will get PO with this remark, but it does seem that most of you are short sighted, and likely will not play ARR for a long period.

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Hmmm... Someone once told me something about assuming things...

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Yeah, not everyone can devote their entire life to playing this game.

Seriously, how anyone can have all classes/jobs at 50 while still working/sleeping/eating/having any sort of social life is beyond me.

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I'm not a legacy player and I've logged about the same number of hours as you have and I have every class to 50. All of em (DOW, DOM, DOL, and DOH; main geared to i107, no battle class under i86). It's less a function of time and more a function of what you chose to do in the game.

To the OP's point, I'm going to echo the other posters in saying that the alternate classes is meant to give you flexibility in content, not something that should be required to run content.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

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2. Challenging boss fights -- Remember the Deepvoid Slave (now known as Taulurd) and Batraal in 1.18? They are complete jokes today compared to back then. And it had nothing to do with animation lock or interface lag. Those fights were 100% well designed challenging mechanics.

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^^ This ^^, is what 1.2x offered, that 2.x currently lacks.

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and this have nothing to do with being able or not to change job mid dungeons.
actually being able to change job lower challenge of the dungeons.

Jumping rope on one job is the exact same as jumping rope and changing between 3 different ones. Job design in game currently is so simple it wouldn't be hard for someone to be able to play every job. What you suggest isn't part of being challenging or difficult, it's just tedious and eliminates choice from the player and the current job system, which is already quite limited.

I have played quite a lot. I could indeed level and gear everything out, but I chose not to, there's no reason for me to play something I don't enjoy or don't have fun with. Yeah the game could make use of the ability to have multiple jobs better, but not this way. This doesn't make use of it, instead it forces it upon you. If anything about this game is true, it's that player choice is a big thing. That's something I personally appreciate, it's nice to have a choice.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Seriously, just how long are you going to play a single job for? Days, weeks, months? ARR has been out for over an year, and many of you are still having issues about leveling a 2nd job to 50?!?

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Maybe they are spending their time raiding and learning challenging content, the hardest thing you have cleared is garuda em. They enjoy that this game isn't a grinding snoozefest that requires no skill.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

2. Challenging boss fights -- Remember the Deepvoid Slave (now known as Taulurd) and Batraal in 1.18? They are complete jokes today compared to back then. And it had nothing to do with animation lock or interface lag. Those fights were 100% well designed challenging mechanics.

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The heck are you talking about. Deepvoid Slave, tank in corner, don't stand behind him, DPS use BRD or Blm to avoid ghost spawns. Burn him down like the chump he was,
Battraal was just kill adds avoid laser, tank as far away from healers as possible... Simple as you please (and if SCH had been around Battraal would have been even more of a cake walk). The only thing "hard" about DH after your first one or two clears was pumping out enough DPS to meet the extra chest Speed Run time.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

The heck are you talking about. Deepvoid Slave, tank in corner, don't stand behind him, DPS use BRD or Blm to avoid ghost spawns. Burn him down like the chump he was,
Battraal was just kill adds avoid laser, tank as far away from healers as possible... Simple as you please (and if SCH had been around Battraal would have been even more of a cake walk). The only thing "hard" about DH after your first one or two clears was pumping out enough DPS to meet the extra chest Speed Run time.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

The only thing "hard" about DH after your first one or two clears was pumping out enough DPS to meet the extra chest Speed Run time.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

The only thing "hard" about DH after your first one or two clears

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

after your first one or two clears

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Imagine that...getting better at something by practicing it multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

That doesn't really help your argument though.

Plenty of groups wipe on Turd and Batraal on their first runs because they don't know what to do.

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Haha, I'm not the only one that calls it Turd.

Of course some people wipe on them (ha, wiped on Turd). But ask yourself this: How many people cleared Darkhold v1.18 on their very first run with zero wipes? How many times on average did people wipe to Deepvoid Slave before their first kill compared to Turd?

I cleared Darkhold in ARR the first time with no wipes. I have never been in a group that has wiped to Taulurd or Batraal in 2.x. The most challenging part of today's Dzemael Darkhold is that cliff area after the first boss with the gigantoads that can knock you off if you're out of position and don't dodge or stun Labored Leap. When trash mobs are more of a challenge than the boss, something is wrong with the design.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

So yeah...run past everything. BRD/BLM on Cyclops, Monk on Mistress.

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Yeah, that's the other part some people seem to be forgetting about the "multi-class" experience of 1.23 (which is what I was hinting at when I was talking about it being like Brayflox HM speed runs). It was BRD or BLM onry and lolmnk loldrg no thanks, just like Mythflox.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Imagine that...getting better at something by practicing it multiple times.

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That doesn't really help your argument though.

Plenty of groups wipe on Turd and Batraal on their first runs because they don't know what to do.

Funny thing about speed running dungeons in 1.23 was that it became a prerequisite to getting your relic. I can't remember exactly now, but I think you had to do
Darkhold, AV and Cutters in sub 7 minutes to spawn the chest for Salts, Ore and something else.

So yeah...run past everything. BRD/BLM on Cyclops, Monk on Mistress.

It's hard enough to find players that can play ONE job effectively. Finding someone that could play 3-4 jobs effectively would be a near godsend.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

That doesn't really help your argument though.

Plenty of groups wipe on Turd and Batraal on their first runs because they don't know what to do.

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...Yeah it's hard to get out of indicators.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

...Yeah it's hard to get out of indicators.

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Harder than standing in the same spot for the whole fight, yes.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

2. Challenging boss fights -- Remember the Deepvoid Slave (now known as Taulurd) and Batraal in 1.18? They are complete jokes today compared to back then. And it had nothing to do with animation lock or interface lag. Those fights were 100% well designed challenging mechanics.

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Hmm, they were already with 1.21 easy after CC and AV gave you better gear. Implementing of the job system also made them easy.

I played 1.0 and I thought the dungeon experience was not very good at all. I did all 3 dungeons, dark hold, arum vale and cutters cry.

1.0 had forced you to do speed runs to get loot. Yoshi P already said they would never go back to this. Dark hold for example consisted of following a tank as he runs through a bunch of leashing mobs and having blms sleep stuff like frogs and the hippocerfs when you have to stand in circles to unlock doors. There were only a few mobs you had to kill to spawn extra chests. Other then that it was run run run train mobs don't fight stuff.

AV on the other hand you still trained a lot of mobs but there were several more mobs required killing to get all the chests. Only DPS allowed where blms who could change to monk and 1 bard for ballad because you needed to have 2 whms keep aoe regen on the group because the zone had a constant poison gas that would drain HP. Anyway everyone had to go on blm and people changed to monk for the malabro boss because he was weak to fire and monk had fists of flames which did the most damage out of any dps. If you didn't have blm and monk leveled too bad you won't be getting a group for this dungeon as a dps.

Anyway I didn't like the whole idea of running though as many mobs as you could and trying to be in such a huge hurry all the time. For those of you who didn't play 1.0 you should of seen the people rage when they failed a speed run and didn't get all the chests. The name calling over a failed speed run, and yelling was far worse then 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Hmm, they were already with 1.21 easy after CC and AV gave you better gear. Implementing of the job system also made them easy.

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What was that quote pirating ?

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Originally Posted by Felis

Hmm, they were already with 1.21 easy after CC and AV gave you better gear. Implementing of the job system also made them easy.

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Attributing what I said to someone else, and also selectively ignoring where I said "1.18". Double fail.

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Originally Posted by lololink

What was that quote pirating ?

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To be fair, you are wearing a pirate hat.

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Originally Posted by Felis

fixed it, sorry ^^

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Your hat is kinda piratey, too.

Multi-jobs and switching jobs is something unique to FFXI and FFXIV. It should be something they should be trying to market.

I think this is good to revive as a new category of dungeons.
If job-switch dungeons are coming back, then weapon/magic resistances need to come back too.
It may be harder to do, but at the moment I think all they need to do is "remove crafting material" or slightly boost the token rate and people will do it.

"Savage Roulette", yes please.

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Originally Posted by lololink

What was that quote pirating ?

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fixed it, sorry ^^

This whole concept would be terrible for the game as a whole. People who like tanking could play only tanks, people who like healers could only play healers but then damage dealers would have a bare minimum of 3 jobs (Bard, Black Mage, Monk) and some people might not like even one of those.

The balance between jobs right now (while it could use a tweak here and there) is pretty good and that system would make said balance take a huge step back. Dungeons could indeed use more difficult challenges, more depth to the encounters but this proposed system is absolutely not the way to go.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Nope, Yoshi doesn't want to force players to play multiple jobs.

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Well as is stands some people are required to play multiple jobs. Especially when certain fights have very viable one-tank strategies

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Well as is stands some people are required to play multiple jobs. Especially when certain fights have very viable one-tank strategies

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Also needed for cross-class abilities, like Quelling Strikes on BLM.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Well as is stands some people are required to play multiple jobs. Especially when certain fights have very viable one-tank strategies

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If you are a tank and you have no other jobs leveled and want to use a 1 tank strat you can still just go sword oath or take off defiance and focus on dps.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If you are a tank and you have no other jobs leveled and want to use a 1 tank strat you can still just go sword oath or take off defiance and focus on dps.

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That undermines the whole purpose of having a one tank strategy.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

That undermines the whole purpose of having a one tank strategy.

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A few people actually uses OT with strength accessories in one tank strategies. It actually does decent damage (they can break the 300 with the appropriate gear) and can switch to MT in case the other MT dies for whatever reasons.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Unless you play this game for only 2 hours a day...there's a good possibility you just choose not to level other classes or gear them up. ARR makes it so painless if you "devote your life to it" you're doing something horrendously wrong.

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Well, my average daily playing time since I started the game is ~2 hours. :P