[REQUEST] Remove coil weekly lockouts

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It does not resolve the issue of people getting carried through it. Its the hardest content in the game, you should learn it and beat it that way.

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SE agrees with this as well. While they're not going to make selling runs against the ToS, they want to minimize the amount of people who clear and get the gear to those who put in the work and effort, at least until 2.4.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It does not resolve the issue of people getting carried through it. Its the hardest content in the game, you should learn it and beat it that way.

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Why does it matter? And the lockout system does not resolve it either it only slows -all- runs through it. FC on my server sell runs.

I'd rather have a few people helped through the system than the content being poorly locked. I say poorly because the negatives (imo) outweigh the positives of such a system.


Edit:
Also to your concern that the gear obtained will then be used to beat the content even easier (which absolutely happens already), you could just level and gear sync the dungeons to make that a moot issue.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Is wasting your subscription to be able to do meaningful content only once at week that fun?

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Sounds like a personal problem if you're unable to find anything else to do with the plethora of things to do in this game.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Decouple Savage mode from the normal mode and I'll be happy.

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This needs to happen by 2.4. A big reason my group hasn't even tried Savage yet is we're still missing items from earlier turns and don't want to waste anymore than the limited time we have per week to wipe on Savage turns a few times just to resign to clear it on normal.

As for the subject at hand, I think the only compromise that could be made for taking off attempt lockouts while content is still cutting edge is if anyone in the group has already looted for the week that no loot will drop upon beating the turn. I think this is the only way the devs can ensure things stay fair in terms of selling runs and such.

http://m.memegen.com/kq5ahw.jpg

People only see it as 'to help others', sorry, theres another side to the story I rather not have, and thats people begging me or other experienced people to do runs with them to get the clear, the lockout at the moment and also with other mmos, reduces the begging, begging occurs more often then you think, remove the lock out and you will get people that only want the clear and not care for your time and energy which will beg. There are people that simply dont want to help, and this is their choice to make and their right, not yours.

Removing the lockout will upset all the special snowflakes.

Yes please, I don't know why everyone is so dumb! Remove the lockout from Coil next Coil addition. We want half the server to clear turn 10-XX within 2 weeks. It doesn't matter if an MMO has zero gear with value to it.

Or in short: this topic again :/

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

I understand I want to play with my friends. I understand if one my friend ask me "wanna clear T6 together?" I can tell him "Yeah, sure, let me help ya". I understand that I want to log in during the weekend look at PF without feeling depressed because "Oh.. cannot join that. A shame, I would have liked to try T7 as a SMN once. but lockout!." I understand some people are willing to feed on any bullshit SE gives them, even if the game turns into a 8-men game.

If the prices to pay is to have people sell T6-9 to casual then let them have, who gives a shiet.

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You could have just said, "I don't know.".

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Originally Posted by Fendred

The only reason the lockout system is the way it is today is to promote static groups. The problem is that forming a static group is a job that requires a ton of work... which isn't all that fun.

Step 1: Advertise, advertise, advertise...
Step 2: Weed out any candidates who aren't fit for the runs.
Step 3: Repeat steps 1 and 2 until group is created.
Step 4: Base plan for progression on the ability and schedules of the current players. Be prepared for disappointment, because its always slower than anyone initially expected.
Step 5: Replace any members who fail to show up on time repeatedly...

Steps keep going on and on. You essentially become a boss and have to make painful decisions on who stays and who doesn't. The process forces the raid leader to throw a chunk of his humanity out the window because he has to be an asshole to a lot of people to make the static work.

Frankly, after ten years of it, I think I'm done. I don't want to play a game where I have to do that to people again.

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The alternative is, never beat anything. Hard choice.

The only reason the lockout system is the way it is today is to promote static groups. The problem is that forming a static group is a job that requires a ton of work... which isn't all that fun.

Step 1: Advertise, advertise, advertise...
Step 2: Weed out any candidates who aren't fit for the runs.
Step 3: Repeat steps 1 and 2 until group is created.
Step 4: Base plan for progression on the ability and schedules of the current players. Be prepared for disappointment, because its always slower than anyone initially expected.
Step 5: Replace any members who fail to show up on time repeatedly...

Steps keep going on and on. You essentially become a boss and have to make painful decisions on who stays and who doesn't. The process forces the raid leader to throw a chunk of his humanity out the window because he has to be an asshole to a lot of people to make the static work.

Frankly, after ten years of it, I think I'm done. I don't want to play a game where I have to do that to people again.

I'm now under the belief if I don't enjoy the game, I will move on to something else, especially when the developers have staunchly noted this will be the game design for years to come. Which is fine - this is bigger than a glitch or hack, it's not something that can be decided over night (although with their approach to the Hunt, I'm wondering if they just were like "Eff it - do it")

They finally changed FFXI's design after a few years to cater to the current community. It'll be the same for this game and the best and most notable thing about this game is that the mechanics are so turn-based and "jump-rope" I think any returning players can ease into it fine.

So unfortunately, you need to speak with your wallet - unsub and send a message.

Edit: I'm not trying to sound doom and gloom but trying to convey the message that many MMO's will adjust the structure of their game play depending on the current state of the community. The cheesiest comment I can give is YES, taking a break and coming back to see if there is any added welcome change for you personally is ACTUALLY healthy, especially if you're beating your head day in and day out.

With that said, I am one that would like to see loot lockout PER CLASS versus TURN lockout. But until this happens, I can just wait.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

The alternative is, never beat anything. Hard choice.

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And this is what I'm talking about. You are implying that treating others purely as tools for the acquisition of a few virtual items-- that the quest to be the first person at the front of the gear treadmill totally justifies walking over other's backs to get there. Its despicable behavior and shouldn't be tolerated, let alone encouraged in an MMORPG where you are supposed to be working constructively with other people.

This is why so few people raid. Its has nothing to do with skill and has everything to do with being a decent human being, which is worth a ton more than a few virtual items whose value will be depreciated as is the status quo in vertical progression theme parks. You just haven't played these games long enough to see that yet.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Yes please, I don't know why everyone is so dumb! Remove the lockout from Coil next Coil addition. We want half the server to clear turn 10-XX within 2 weeks. It doesn't matter if an MMO has zero gear with value to it.

Or in short: this topic again :/

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Gears have zero value in this game. Do you realize in 2 months they are throwing level 110+ gears at us?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

You could have just said, "I don't know.".

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What a shitty answer, jesus. Then again, what to expect to some who defend a mechanic like lockout.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

The only reason the lockout system is the way it is today is to promote static groups. The problem is that forming a static group is a job that requires a ton of work... which isn't all that fun.

Step 1: Advertise, advertise, advertise...
Step 2: Weed out any candidates who aren't fit for the runs.
Step 3: Repeat steps 1 and 2 until group is created.
Step 4: Base plan for progression on the ability and schedules of the current players. Be prepared for disappointment, because its always slower than anyone initially expected.
Step 5: Replace any members who fail to show up on time repeatedly...

Steps keep going on and on. You essentially become a boss and have to make painful decisions on who stays and who doesn't. The process forces the raid leader to throw a chunk of his humanity out the window because he has to be an asshole to a lot of people to make the static work.

Frankly, after ten years of it, I think I'm done. I don't want to play a game where I have to do that to people again.

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Very good post.
Personally I'm done with statics, it just creates frictions among FC members who can't play together because lockouts. Better play casually. It's not like T6-8 are hard anyway, they are simple scripted fight with 1-2 mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

This is why so few people raid. Its has nothing to do with skill and has everything to do with being a decent human being, which is worth a ton more than a few virtual items whose value will be depreciated as is the status quo in vertical progression theme parks. You just haven't played these games long enough to see that yet.

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You're right, I haven't played any games with pure vertical progression. Yet I don't really care about this foolish notion about "decent human being". I think it's irrelevant to the topic. If people are holding you back, you get rid of them or you leave yourself. It's not fun to lose 100% of the time. Might be fun for the first 80% but then frustration kicks in and one must remedy the situation.

Although, after you've defeated a turn, you can just go with other people the following week. That's assuming you actually care about the gear and only about the experience.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

What a shitty answer, jesus. Then again, what to expect to some who defend a mechanic like lockout.

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I will always defend lockout if it prevents percentage drops from end-game like in other games. I'm, and more than likely others, are not keen on fighting a boss for 12 minutes and it dropping nothing but gil. But you continue to fight against lockouts if you're in favour of that kind of thing. But I'll give you, and that other guy, the reason since you seem to ignore it. Lockouts are logical where there are multiple raids. Currently FFXIV does not have such a thing so it seems that the lockout method is pretty foolish. However, it's teaching everyone that lockouts are a part of the game and it will happen until the game dies. So it leads to imply that SE will make multiple raids all with their own timed lockouts and then it'll make sense. Since this game is apparently like World of Warcraft, that seems to be the system they will use. Until they change it so the chests are akin to chests in the current expert dungeons, with a high chance to drop crafting mats and low chance for gear, I hope the lockout stays.

So here the reason why I've arrived at the conclusions I have. I come from Aion Online. There was lockouts there, no one minded them because there was something else that had many more people's attention: PvP. In the current patch of 4.5.2, there are a myriad of instances with varying lockout timers. They used to be much longer in 4.0.3, some ranging for 2 days to 7 days, but since PvP took up much more of a focus than PvE there was no qualms about the lockout and who you went with. The issue in that game, however, was succeed or fail, you always get lockout out of the instance. This was ontop of the fact that item drop rate was a low percentage, and then getting the item you wanted was akin to what we have now. 6 months later, they lowered the time between lockouts so more people could access them. Funny how that's the same road map as SE, don't you think? Basically, I'm not stranger to lockouts, I'm not delusional enough to believe that they are there for no reason (which some people give the impression of), and this is my last post regarding this matter. I'm not going to convince die-hard anti-lockout people, this is only an informational for on-lookers who are sitting on the fence not sure what side to choose, or simply not informed.

Aside: I've asked in-game and there are very few people, on Behemoth, who think removing lockouts is a good idea so it must be a vocal minority who want them removed.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

The alternative is, never beat anything. Hard choice.

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Without a static? Are you that bad that you can't beat content outside of Second Coil without your group? Sucks to be you I guess.

Maybe you should go back and help others get to the point you are at.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Without a static? Are you that bad that you can't beat content outside of Second Coil without your group? Sucks to be you I guess.

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Why you gotta strawman me, bro?

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Something something, don't make outrageous blanket statements then?

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Context is hard.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Why you gotta strawman me, bro?

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Something something, don't make outrageous blanket statements then?

Just create learning party PF groups for the turns.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Context is hard.

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Hyperbole is ridiculously easy, your point?

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

The shunners of this idea are ignorant to mechanics and difficulty of T6-T9.
Although it is to be expected that the lockout will eventually be taken away in 2.4, There will be NO harm in removing it in 2.35. IMO, T6-T9 is carry proof unless the other 7 people are super uber geared that have dps pushing 500+ DPS throughout an entire fight.

Removing the lockout will balance out the hunts and bring back interest into raiding and those who are already i110 have a reason to actually the play the game (High Allagan Weapons)

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Refreshing to see polite and educated people who are civilized and share a good opinion. I fully agree with this post. plus not everyone buys runs or sells them.

Practice makes better.

Hunts have made second coil almost pointless. The only thing as that is of real value in the new coil is the weapons. Other then that you can get sand / oils daily from just hunts alone.

On that note I don't see anything wrong with an unlock of the second coil. If they had not released hunts I would say keep the lock but, atm it's virtually pointless to keep it locked.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

Hunts have made second coil almost pointless.

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I assume the "almost" means this doesn't take the phrase "Best in Slot" into consideration. The sanded soldiery gear is good stuff, but it might not be as effective as the drops in second coil for a specific job. I won't go into detail, but your logic is perfectly reasonable to a solo player.

Anyway, to the topic.
Nah. Don't remove the lockout until the new 2.4 content comes out. 2.4 comes out, wait a couple weeks, add an echo buff, etc. Same with T5. The latest and greatest endgame content in any MMO community isn't something meant to be casually approached by pick up groups. In the context of this game, I think that it was meant for otherwise solo players to reach out to their community and make static groups rather than waiting around on a duty finder for a possible carry or a series of phase 1 wipes.

Why can't people not just wait unil 2.4?
SE would not remove the weekly lockout from Coil2 before 2.4

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Originally Posted by Felis

SE would not remove the weekly lockout from Coil2 before 2.4

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This.

SE won't remove the locks. Once Third Coil comes out, Second Coil will be unlocked. After that, when Coil is over and the next equivalent raid comes out, Third Coil will be unlocked and the new raid will be locked. SE probably doesn't care if it makes people unhappy. The lockout forces people to do Coil every week in hopes for their drop. It keeps the players who would spam it until they got all of the gear still playing, still paying to play. It makes people keep their subs up longer. I know of many people who would have probably spammed Second Coil until they got all of their gear, quit the game, then re-subbed once Third Coil is released. It's nothing personal against players, it's business.

I personally don't like the lockout system or agree with it, it's just very obvious why it is in place and that reason makes it very unlikely they'll ever make the current hardest raid just a free-for-all.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Why does it matter? And the lockout system does not resolve it either it only slows -all- runs through it. FC on my server sell runs.

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Then working as intended. Point of lock outs is to slow down and prolong the content.

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I'd rather have a few people helped through the system than the content being poorly locked. I say poorly because the negatives (imo) outweigh the positives of such a system.

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That is what 2.4 is for when they release the new tier of content. If said person isn't willing to take the time to form or join a group, put the amount of time and practice others do, and overcome the hardships, then they don't deserve a win till the next patch no matter what their circumstances are.

Only negatives I see of the lock out systems are ones that can be justified.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

SE won't remove the locks. Once Third Coil comes out, Second Coil will be unlocked. After that, when Coil is over and the next equivalent raid comes out, Third Coil will be unlocked and the new raid will be locked. SE probably doesn't care if it makes people unhappy. The lockout forces people to do Coil every week in hopes for their drop. It keeps the players who would spam it until they got all of the gear still playing, still paying to play. It makes people keep their subs up longer. I know of many people who would have probably spammed Second Coil until they got all of their gear, quit the game, then re-subbed once Third Coil is released. It's nothing personal against players, it's business.

I personally don't like the lockout system or agree with it, it's just very obvious why it is in place and that reason makes it very unlikely they'll ever make the current hardest raid just a free-for-all.

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While i agree with and understand the reasoning behind parts of this statement it only covers half of the argument.

If the coil lockout is designed to keep people playing and subbed etc by forcing them to continue running it for weeks on end, then what about the subs being lost by the players who log in, clear coil once for the week after reset and are done, only to do the same the following week and eventually coming to the conclusion after repeating the cycle a few times that outside of coil they aren't doing anything else in the game (on the level of coil) and just quitting?

Or, What about the subs being lost from the players who have tried repeatedly to deal with the static formation issues that the coil lockout system is promoting by its restrictive nature and are leaving the game because they feel they can't progress or play with the people they wish to play with?

Now there is a new group that has chosen to forgo coil entirely by simply spamming out hunts in an effort to feel like they're making some sort of progression and are burning themselves out by taking the fast track to ilvl 110.

There are way too many posts that simply state "Well lockouts are good for subs" without looking at the full picture or considering alternatives.

You can have content that doesn't have an attempt lockout on it without resorting to low percentage RNG for drops, Token systems have worked in both the history of this game and many others when it comes to this sort of content, and that's just one example.

It would be more productive to recognize that a significant number of the playerbase has been talking about this issue for a long time, and rather than acting like it's a choice between lockouts and RNG it would be a better use of time to discuss viable alternatives rather than crying that it cannot be done, because it has.

The issue here goes beyond gear, because lets face it coil doesn't gear you up for anything but the next coil. You have to wait 3 months between releases to even attempt it and during that time due to the RNG currently in place (because yes it exists) you could very well go those 3 months without receiving a single coil drop, which btw will be immediately invalidated by the next patches ilvl increase.

What the majority of people who bring this issue up are trying to express is that the heart of the problem is the lack of freedom and ability to be able to play with the people you want to, when you want to. There is no acceptable reason that in an MMO (a genre that is intended to promote playing with other people) you are forced to pick and choose which players you will be allowed to do the only endgame content with, this is 2014 and other games have solved this issue years ago.

You could retitle this thread "please remove lockouts so we can make new threads about how people are selling 6-9." Or could also rename it to "Please allow groups who did their best and put in a lot of effort to carry me through coil as well because I don't want to put a group together because it annoys me."

I mean come on. Either these people that have this no lockout idea want to have friends who are nice and have cleared go with them (ie get carried), or are delusional and somehow think that the clear groups would suddenly want to help teach all new players to 6-9 because the lockout is now off. Lol.

Its a rare thought for this game but....Did anyone ever consider having your friends level multiple characters so they can raid with you too?

Oh, I guess it's not that important then...

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Originally Posted by Codek

Its a rare thought for this game but....Did anyone ever consider having your friends level multiple characters so they can raid with you too?

Oh, I guess it's not that important then...

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Right? I made another character to help or do whatever I wanted on. It is pretty fun and doesn't take long at all.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Then working as intended. Point of lock outs is to slow down and prolong the content.

That is what 2.4 is for when they release the new tier of content. If said person isn't willing to take the time to form or join a group, put the amount of time and practice others do, and overcome the hardships, then they don't deserve a win till the next patch no matter what their circumstances are.

Only negatives I see of the lock out systems are ones that can be justified.

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Which is why I said loot lockouts, social lockouts in an mmorpg is counterintuitive at minimum.

You go onto groups and practice but this thread has explained why the social lock ruins that prospect for many.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Which is why I said loot lockouts, social lockouts in an mmorpg is counterintuitive at minimum.

You go onto groups and practice but this thread has explained why the social lock ruins that prospect for many.

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You can practice with a group as many times as you like. Very likely if you need practice on T9, you have overcome the other turns and have that week to do it. If you don't have the time to practice that week, then please look forward to the next patch.

Loot lockouts do not solve the entire server beating it much...much faster if it was a thing and then people complaining about they have nothing to do till the next Coils hits. There is suppose to be content that not everyone can beat at it's prime, that is the intention of the design and from I see, it is working pretty well. I would hate seeing people walking around in High Allagan weapons if they did almost nothing to deserve it. Granted you can do that now if you are willing to leave your 8th member out that week, but most groups don't carry in someone. It would definitely be a thing however if they released the locks.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Which is why I said loot lockouts, social lockouts in an mmorpg is counterintuitive at minimum.

You go onto groups and practice but this thread has explained why the social lock ruins that prospect for many.

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There is no actual type of lockout. As mentioned, the only lockout you experience is from someone not wanting to make another character. If they really wanted to play with their group and another group this is so easy to do, especially now with easy ways to gear up quickly.

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Originally Posted by Makado

There is no actual type of lockout. As mentioned, the only lockout you experience is from someone not wanting to make another character. If they really wanted to play with their group and another group this is so easy to do, especially now with easy ways to gear up quickly.

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The time investment alone makes it unfeasible as an option. In the process of trying to level a second character you'd end up falling behind with your current character because current end game is designed as a massive time sink. The only reason to make a new character is to casually try out other race models or for mules to hold onto items.

At this point, with hunts, they could just remove coils lockouts completely (and, eventually, implement a loot system limitation like the one in the CT/ST).

Lockouts were fine when people at 50 were only playing for coils, but I'm pretty sure it's no longer the case for most people who are still playing FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You can practice with a group as many times as you like. Very likely if you need practice on T9, you have overcome the other turns and have that week to do it. If you don't have the time to practice that week, then please look forward to the next patch.

Loot lockouts do not solve the entire server beating it much...much faster if it was a thing and then people complaining about they have nothing to do till the next Coils hits. There is suppose to be content that not everyone can beat at it's prime, that is the intention of the design and from I see, it is working pretty well. I would hate seeing people walking around in High Allagan weapons if they did almost nothing to deserve it. Granted you can do that now if you are willing to leave your 8th member out that week, but most groups don't carry in someone. It would definitely be a thing however if they released the locks.

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The issue with the social lockout is that it drops those people from practicing from the actively sought practicing list, this is particularly hurtful for FC with not exact numbers- someone is bound to be left out (compounded when they actually want to use that knowledge). Forcing players to wait weeks till the next new content so they can do old content shows how bad the lockout system is. Besides its not like all these people who have trouble forming a static, for the number of reasons will actually decide that content is for them, being able to decide if it is for them is important- "wow this stuff is hard! Waiting till Echo baby" "lol this is awesome, thanks for the invite, that was so challengingly fun!". Carrying someone in the hardest content in the game is not really an issue for except the most generous and skilled groups, or groups selling runs. If selling runs hurts SE feels they can stop it without setting up social locks. If helping others is an issue then I don't know why this is called an MMO, should call it an MSO with really well made AI to abuse at your convenience, if you can meet their erroneous time schedules and social locked drama.

Loot lockouts do keep the loot 1 per week, or small other variations as suggested. People running through the content faster per week is not an issue, a few more people getting in earlier may happen but that should not be an issue*. Sure a few more people will not be left out but that - is the point -. As said before and said your self, most groups will not accept a dud player because it isn't that easy to drop people - at least until they are geared from the content themselves, which you showed issue to them helping others. Just make that gear synced down then, "but the point is for them to use the gear to make their own runs easier, not anyone elses- never share".

*I thought it was a joke before, but it seems like what a person said a few pages ago is actually closer to the truth- its the snowflake lock system, it seems the most popular issue against removing lockout but implementing loot lock is that they want systems in place to prevent others from joining in. I will never support the snowflake ideology. It is sad, imo, that the main proponent against removing the lockout but keeping a system that ensures SE has dev time for content is "I don't want other people to be able to do what I'm doing" - considering that every person that has a group is not available for another group, and that having static practice times across the globe of players is like trying to walk a cat. Why require the social stress for something that doesn't need to be, except to apparently make it so less people can do said content... I'm not impressed.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

At this point, with hunts, they could just remove coils lockouts completely (and, eventually, implement a loot system limitation like the one in the CT/ST).

Lockouts were fine when people at 50 were only playing for coils, but I'm pretty sure it's no longer the case for most people who are still playing FFXIV.

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That the solution to the problem is to create another character shows how bad the system is. Also this shows the flaw to the system that a loot lock would -fix-. If you run with a set of mains and a set of alts, then the mains can focus roll on gear getting more of what they want concentrating the loot. Vs a loot lock system where it wouldn't matter, there is a set standard of speed. Seems to me loot locks are superior socially and mechanically.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

The time investment alone makes it unfeasible as an option. In the process of trying to level a second character you'd end up falling behind with your current character because current end game is designed as a massive time sink. The only reason to make a new character is to casually try out other race models or for mules to hold onto items.

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It's a bit counter intuitive that a player has the time to run multiple groups through coil, but not the time to run multiple characters through it.

This is simply a players choice to ignore work-arounds to the lock-out as it's not convenient. Just as it's not convenient to wait a few more months for basically the same effect.

It all comes down to the same idea, that participating in relevant endgame involves a massive time sink and this is completely intended.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

snip

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Wouldn't the idea of special snowflake in this case be the ones who want an easy way out of beating content (aka your idea)?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Wouldn't the idea of special snowflake in this case be the ones who want an easy way out of beating content (aka your idea)?

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Are we using different definitions of snowflakes?

Snowflake (imo):
Wants to be special and the only one, unique.
Does not like to share, wouldn't mind content being exclusive /after/ they have it.
Or variations of the above.

My idea is strictly against that. And inserting that it is the easy way out is a false proposition, hardest content in the game, would like to party with anyone - therefore I must want it handed to me in an explosive candy pinata right? No..

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Originally Posted by Codek

It's a bit counter intuitive that a player has the time to run multiple groups through coil, but not the time to run multiple characters through it.

This is simply a players choice to ignore work-arounds to the lock-out as it's not convenient. Just as it's not convenient to wait a few more months for basically the same effect.

It all comes down to the same idea, that participating in relevant endgame involves a massive time sink and this is completely intended.

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There is a massive time difference between the two activities. Raiding Coil takes at most two, maybe four hours a week on average. Raising a new character all the way to lvl 50 and gearing him/her up from scratch is in the upper double digits range for hours played. They are no where near comparable activities in terms of time. Also, a raider needs to do other things on his main to acquire resources, and there are many other activities to do in the game outside of raiding.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Raiding takes at most two hours a week.

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This is completely ignoring the time commitment it takes for people to learn the fights as a group. This is the artificial time sink imposed by character lock-outs that was intended by the developers.

If everyone is clearing coil in 2-hours, then they clearly don't need help from others...