Hunts were a terrible/irresponsible idea

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Except again, they are.

All the server is looking for Nael right now.

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They are not, that's we we are discussing, and about the weekly one, i agree, i have no idea what they were thinking, weeklies are supposed to be there for players who don't want to involve too much on the hunt, but they are actually worse than trying to share a rank S with half server in the same area.

And what i'm trying to explain is that the hunts are meant to be played by the players pursuing the monsters, not the whole server, and with that i'm mean players doing something different waiting for a shout in the ls, you can ask them to change the system, but don't say it's is broken, it's just not what you expected.

Who cares how it is meant to be played, the point is this is how it is going to be played because you can't mind control a server population of tens of thousands.

Anyone with foresight could of seen this coming, but they listened to the open world whiners and showed the obvious result when you have something that is open world, not a forced pop and not claimable. The fantasy of a group of people following clues and hunting monsters just doesn't happen with this sort of scale and you can't censor people's ability to share information, you need systems in place that restrict them.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Who cares how it is meant to be played, the point is this is how it is going to be played because you can't mind control a server population of tens of thousands.

Anyone with foresight could of seen this coming, but they listened to the open world whiners and showed the obvious result when you have something that is open world, not a forced pop and not claimable. The fantasy of a group of people following clues and hunting monsters just doesn't happen with this sort of scale and you can't censor people's ability to share information, you need systems in place that restrict them.

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easy solution = all hunts are rank b. and you can only get credit for one hunt per day. further, 1 hit = full points no matter what. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Lag? What lag? What kind of a rig are you running?

Used to be on PS3 and the lagfest was off and on there. I'm now plowing through everything with a PS4. Haven't had any problems since.

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There was a S hunt today that kept disappearing and I'm on PS4. Neither Odin nor Behemoth disappear but this hunt did.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

easy solution = all hunts are rank b. and you can only get credit for one hunt per day. further, 1 hit = full points no matter what. Problem solved.

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I actually thought that is how it would be with the bills posted, but you can just go around and get insane rewards for a limitless number of marks. It's really broken I didn't imagine they would just put this sort of stuff on tap.

My last post because i'm tired, just remove sands and oils from hunts, make them drop in CT or EX primals, problem solved.

That way you could say it in LS and get your friends to help you, because only those interested in having fun hunting will show.

You're asking for a rework now, more HP, attk, w/e, but once they implement new gear turning the sands and oils into something from the past, you'll have to fight monsters with lots of HP with only 5-10 players, then everyone will ask for a nerf.

I actually agree with that, one of the factors that makes this a perfect storm of bad design is that the rewards are items for bis gear, there would be no where near the drive to exploit this to hell if it wasn't the path of least resistance to the best gear.

But so many people actually requested that, they wanted open world stuff with good rewards. I agree that it would be nice if it was just there for people who love dangerous open world monsters, but in reality there are few that would enjoy doing it for the sake of it, and when I read all these requests on these forums all I see is a thinly veiled gimmie gear.

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Originally Posted by Renik

My last post because i'm tired, just remove sands and oils from hunts, make them drop in CT or EX primals, problem solved.

That way you could say it in LS and get your friends to help you, because only those interested in having fun hunting will show.

You're asking for a rework now, more HP, attk, w/e, but once they implement new gear turning the sands and oils into something from the past, you'll have to fight monsters with lots of HP with only 5-10 players, then everyone will ask for a nerf.

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Actually don't think that would necessarily be a bad thing. Would be cool to have a throwback to the old XI Land King type of mob... well, minus all the drama that went with claiming it.

As I posted in another thread... they should take some cues from how they eventually managed this in XI. Forced spawns, multiple spawn points with a cool-down spread out to thin out the big fustercluck mobs of people camping the spawn points. Maybe even throw in a mechanism to lock them to the party/alliance that spawned them so that everyone stood a better chance of getting credit?

I could even go for it being instanced for that matter (old-school BCNM/KSNM style arena perhaps).


Just rambling... but there are so many ways they could have handled this better out the gate.

.....I like the hunts....

I just ported to an S rank. took like 3 min to zone..... THREE MIN. by the time i got there it was dead.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

I'm calling it now. Someone gonna call us out for complaining as noobs or skilfulness peeps and the current design is made for ppl that wanted a challenge.

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here's the kicker to that one....the actual challenge is getting there before the rush or before it dies in a milisecond. XDD
too late. got ppl camping...
shoulda implemented a campfire with smores buffs since thats all youre going to be seeing is campers like we're in cod or something.
just pray n hope this gets fixed. i mean look at what they done with behe/odin.

oh wait...

Ok, I'm not saying that your complains are wrong because I haven't done any hunt for now.

But the thing I don't understand is : People asked for "open world Notorious Monsters" for months...in a game with no "claiming lock" on monster...what exactly were you expecting ?
And worse, if they put lock on hunt monster, you wouldn't even gain the small fraction of the reward that you can have today.

And for good measure, let me remind you what "open world Notorious Monsters" was, in FFXI: Horrible pop time and/or conditions, struggle to be the 1st to claim the mob, and very low chance to get any reward. Was that really better ?

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Originally Posted by Renik

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Takes me back to the days of FFXI HNM camping - a bunch of NM bots were stationed in areas 24/7 keeping a visual of the NMs when they popped and they alerted the linkshell. In those days though, it was a race against time to claim and HOLD the NM until you got your "posse" in full strength to take it down. Here it's a race against time to beat the zerg.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Ok, I'm not saying that your complains are wrong because I haven't done any hunt for now.

But the thing I don't understand is : People asked for "open world Notorious Monsters" for months...in a game with no "claiming lock" on monster...what exactly were you expecting ?
And worse, if they put lock on hunt monster, you wouldn't even gain the small fraction of the reward that you can have today.

And for good measure, let me remind you what "open world Notorious Monsters" was, in FFXI: Horrible pop time and/or conditions, struggle to be the 1st to claim the mob, and very low chance to get any reward. Was that really better ?

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

If you wait to let others get credit, you don't get credit.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

I've seen ten different... DIFFERENT A Rank monsters die as I get there because, guess what? People kill them because they don't care about other people.

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They're not necessarily being jerks, nor is it necessarily because they don't care about other people. You said it yourself. If they try to let everybody know where a monster is, the whole server shows up and nobody gets any credit.

I just had an instance where I found a rank A. Told a couple LS & my FC and did a shout about it. A few people showed up and started yelling about don't pull until X time. Then more, then this wave of people show up. I just pulled it because my group was small and I'll be damned if I was going to get no credit for the monster I found, so I pulled immediately as soon as I saw the wave show up. It dies in less than 15 seconds and a few people got mad at me because I pulled the hunt I found early. I still only got 12/20 for the rank A. Teaches me for trying to include others on the kill.

Best to avoid the hassle and just kill it if you can.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Clearly not.
"We want something wrong"+"We give you the something wrong you want" = "We don't want that something wrong" :p
A reaction I'd like to see would be "We were wrong to want that something" but no player will admit that ;)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Clearly not.
"We want something wrong"+"We give you the something wrong you want" = "We don't want that something wrong" :p
A reaction I'd like to see would be "We were wrong to want that something" but no player will admit that ;)

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For me, it is the Allied seals that is the sore point.

Daily marks, for mobs, you get 1 seal, 2 of tem need FATE pops, for 2 seals. The FATES hardly spawn and totally RNG. I actually camped 1 on the first day, 3 hours later 2 seals.

Now for the weekly ones you get a bonus of 20 seals IF you manage to catch its spawn timing and location and IF you can get a tag on it for contribution.

Now look at the rewards, for GC body, 1000seals. If ypu doing solely by hunt board 7seals per day, give and take 80seals per week. How long does it take to get it?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Clearly not.
"We want something wrong"+"We give you the something wrong you want" = "We don't want that something wrong" :p
A reaction I'd like to see would be "We were wrong to want that something" but no player will admit that ;)

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Specifically "We were wrong to want easier endgame gear." Because I think that is the core of the problem. If this is for the casual playerbase, why did they add Sands/oil/Alexandrite? You'd think they would have waited until the power creep made it so obsolete that few would want that except for vanity or to catch up.

I'll admit the initial implementation of this has been hardly perfect, but a lot of your exaggerations are a little ridiculous to be honest.

"one of the worst systems i have ever seen implemented into a game." Really? Of all the crappy stuff in games over the years, this, is the worst you've seen? I guess you've been very fortunate then.

OP you also complain about the system, despite your comments showing you've been doing it all day yourself. So basically you're upset about the zerg mentality of it...only because others are zerging there quicker than you. If you'd got the full credit on those Rank A marks and some other poor sap hadn't I'm sure you wouldn't be bothered then!

Fact is, people asked for open world notorious monsters, they got them. It isn't perfect, but I like it. Yes I've been beaten to a lot of them (and as someone else mentioned, I totally agree radar usage needs to be stamped out if that's going on) but I still enjoy it. It's fun when you stumble onto one yourself, also it gives people a reason to actually run around the world a bit instead of teleporting everywhere.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as the doom and gloomers on here seem to think.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Ok, I'm not saying that your co

And for good measure, let me remind you what "open world Notorious Monsters" was, in FFXI: Horrible pop time and/or conditions, struggle to be the 1st to claim the mob, and very low chance to get any reward. Was that really better ?

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Before you get started with FFXI. Take a good look at what the mobs in both games drop.

Find me 1 of the current FFXIV mob drop equal to Leaping Boots, Peacock charm, Karken club, Joyucse, etc.

BOTH are 2 totally different systems. FFXI drops are individual some what powerful items or mats.

FFXIV ones drop Allied seals and rare times drop stuff you can get from the said seals.

Hunts should be open world 8 person content. Other players shouldn`t be able to participate, just watch. End of the story.

B Ranks for solo players.
A Ranks for 4 man.
S Ranks for 8 man.

SE just ruined one of the best features ever in a FF game (mark hunts of FFXII). I droped from GW2 just because of this, mindless zergrushed content. We wanted open world challenge, no open world race to the monsters. As if both Odin and Behemonth weren`t bad enough.

It basically boils down to you having to be amazingly lucky to be in the right place at the right time, or it's a massive waste of time, and like others have said, there isn't really a way to improve at hunting. Either you're there, or you're not and even if you are there rewards aren't guaranteed

Well, they succeeded at making people interact more out in the open world... it didn't seem to occur to them that it would be in such a way as to make them hate each other. Forget Frontlines, this is where the real PVP in the game is happening- it's certainly not PVE when the players are having to expend much more effort in competing with each other to get credit for something, than is invested in actually doing it. And kiting enemies to an Invulnerable state to reset their HP isn't a strategy for defeating enemies, it's one for changing the distribution of rewards between other players and yourself.

Speaking of Frontlines and the inexcusably unsolved Withdraw problem impacting commencements, what would you bet at least 1 in 72 players is self centered enough to blow away that big of a DF queue every time they hear a notorious monster is nearby? And we all know the ratio of people willing to majorly inconvenience other players is much higher than that.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

FFXIV ones drop Allied seals and rare times drop stuff you can get from the said seals.

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Allied seals that allows you to buy items to upgrade your gear to the BEST one in game.

It's the same except that you remove the "random drop" part.

Sorry, but if the rewards for the Hunt were not as interesting as those drops in FFXI, no one would participate.

EDIT : Actually, it's not the same...in FFXI, after the long time it took to make one NM pop, only ONE party could ever participate in the fight, and for the most part, only ONE person could get a reward.
I think the Hunt is far more better, from this perspective

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

Before you get started with FFXI. Take a good look at what the mobs in both games drop.

Find me 1 of the current FFXIV mob drop equal to Leaping Boots, Peacock charm, Karken club, Joyucse, etc.

BOTH are 2 totally different systems. FFXI drops are individual some what powerful items or mats.

FFXIV ones drop Allied seals and rare times drop stuff you can get from the said seals.

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Also, it is a hell of a lot faster to get around in this game. Anyone can get anywhere in a matter of a few minutes at most.

Too bad most marks die within the first minute of the fight starting.

Ps4 is positively lag free.

Also your logic is flawed. If ONE mega event causes population to pile up then surely adding TEN more causes players to spread out as they're looking for different targets and not just behemoth.

But those 10 don't happen at the same time, so whenever one pops, the zerg will just make a beeline for that one.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Also your logic is flawed. If ONE mega event causes population to pile up then surely adding TEN more causes players to spread out as they're looking for different targets and not just behemoth.

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Actually I find 10 eliete marks at the same time a little preferable to one becuase the Zerg will spread out and lightening the lag on the zone (at the expense of added lag at other zones) It also increases the length of the fight and this the chance of getting the rewards, but that is less preferable a solution compared to say Making them able to last more than say 30 seconds?

the way they design hunt is retard
instead of getting majority of seal from daily,weekly quest (like how efficient dungeon roulette VS normal queue)
they instead put the efficient way in grinding (not to mention that by doing this, a 1-2 month sub worth of their wallet can be burn in 1 week)

i had a number in my mind before the patch went off, never thought that it 180 decree direction from what i expect

For the elite weekly markes they should just assign one(out of let's say 10) to each player that way 10% of the players participating would be after one mark, 10% after another etc... that would solve the issue with the weeklies.

But yeah if A and S are so zergable make them scale with how many people participate same as Odin.

has anyone else seen ppl jumping across the zone? It looks like the warpbots that rmt used to farm sheep with in coerthas ;x
Not sure if its just terrible lag on my part or if those bots are back and being used to get to the hunt mob quickly

They should have probably launched this alongside open dungeons or something to spread people out a little more.

In all this mentioning of hunts, why they're implemented in bad ways, and why people want to do them so much, I've found that one thing hasn't been mentioned at all: Tomestones of Mythology and Soldiery.

People aren't just going for these to get their Seals for *insert wanted item here*. They're also going for these because the LS' lets them obtain tomestones several times faster than literally any other avenue in the game. It's absolutely ridiculous.

But, let's talk about some suggestions.

1. Implement an aura that increases monster defense/HP in real time proportional to the current number of players attacking it. Alternately, just make them all beefier across the board.
An okay idea, to be sure. However, if SE was actually capable of doing this, FATEs would already be doing it. I'm not sure if this would ever happen. An alternate solution would be to institute the current system of FATE scaling: scale Mark HP proportional to the number of players who participated in the last kill. However, with the mobs of players we're dealing with, this would leave B Ranks un-soloable, which goes against the explicitly stated ideal of B Ranks being soloable.

2. Remove Sands/Oils from the possible rewards. Alternately, increase their price dramatically.
This is probably good. A possible compromise would be to just remove the Blood Splattered Logs from being buyable, attach them solely to S Rank Marks, and slightly increase their drop rate. This may reduce Zerging on A's and limit the mobbing on S Ranks only to those who are persistent enough to fight through low drop rates from low spawn rated monsters. I know we hate RNG, but if skill isn't going to be necessary, we need some RNG to reduce access to the highest tier of gear outside of obtaining them in raids.

3. One hit on the Mark = Full Credit. No in betweens.
A great idea in theory, but also quite abusable. There'd be no end to people popping all around the world, hitting every mark exactly once, and then sitting back and reaping all of the rewards.

4. (My own suggestion) Lower Myth and Soldiery Amounts, massively. Possibly do the same with Allied Marks themselves.
This one's about ratios. I can waltz around a zone, find a lonely B Rank Mark, and destroy it. I get 30 Myth and 10 Soldiery for this. For 3 minutes of work I performed alone, I obtained more Myth than the highest tier 8 man Extreme Primal fights, all of which take much longer... and don't even get me started on A and S ranks. They simply give far, far, far too much of these currencies for the amount of work necessary to kill the monsters. I'm not sure if the Allied Seals should be reduced, but perhaps they should at least be limited(Maybe 75-100 a day, or 750 a week?) when one considers that some people have managed to accrue enough for a Sands of Time in a single day.

5. (My own suggestion, deux) If you were not in the zone when a mark spawned there, you can not get credit!
Here's a controversial one. It'll kick Hunting LS's right where it hurts, but it will ensure that those who actually, well, hunted for a mark get their due credit. B's and A's would be just fine. S Ranks, being the creatures of "solve a riddle, do this specific thing, and then kill the monster" that they are, would simply need the coordination to get enough people into the zone before attempting the trigger. As for those poor LS', they'd go from a tool for zerging every hunt around the world to tools for communicating and coordinating the triggering of S Rank Marks.

Hunts are pretty fun, so long as you're not actually hunting them.

Wandering around the Sylphlands yesterday and a big ooze that could kick my ass started chasing me, ran away, shouted for help, help turned up, defeated it, had dance party. I guess the zerg must have been on here complaining at the time?

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Originally Posted by Raist

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

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The priblem is we can't hold the monsters here like we did in ffxi, back then you could hold it and wait for your LS because it had a lock claim system, right now the rewards are too good, and this is turning my favorite content in a server-wide zerge, because ppl keep telling the others about the monster like if they were odin or behe.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Lower Myth and Soldiery Amounts, massively. Possibly do the same with Allied Marks themselves

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I disagree with this one, i have been waiting for this kind of content because i wanted an alternative to dungeon tome farming, i really hate instances and this gives the game much more life at least for me.

In terms of numbers and time dungeons reward more tomes than marks.

Everyone asked for open-world content and NM's. They got them. Now it's all wrong. This is never-ending.

they should had made it like the treasure hunt - your own monster for you and your group. this is nothing else than fates that spawn randomly with no mark on the map and other rewards. i really hate the hunt system. i was hoping it will be a nice content for your FC - outside of dungeons. but it isn't. it's again content for one person... sure you need help to kill the big ones. but you don't want the help...

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Originally Posted by Shadowedge

Everyone asked for open-world content and NM's. They got them. Now it's all wrong. This is never-ending.

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Everyone asked for open world content, they got them. Most people are concerned with HOW they were implemented, not the fact that they were implemented.

Does simply giving what people want, excuse poor implementation? No. I'll say it again. They modified FATEs to factor in the amount of people doing them. It didn't mean walk in, wack it, bingo gold. You still would need to do a respectable amount, more so if solo. The biggest ask is..

Why have they not carried over these key tweaks into what is basically FATEs?

I don't think The Hunt was a bad idea, I think the execution was horrible meaning. If u gonna make elite marks tough for 1 person to beat whether it's on B, A, or S rank shouldn't 1 make the HP 30x(example) as higher then normal? If it requires many ppl to beat it would make sense to do it. So far it has been nothing but complaints of those getting claim and killing it, leaving others feeling frustrated and angry which I understand. That's something SE should've noticed it before launching this content knowing how ppl will do things in this game in a MMO. The only thing I can see it being fixed so that everyone can get a chance in receiving the bonus and feel not only relief, but more of a saying, "thank you, this is what I expect from it" is to adjust the HP and dmg taken from attacks.