Suggestion for New Allagan Tomestone 2.2+. No more weekly cap.

There is pretty much no chance in hell that the new tomes won't have a time cap.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

"Casual players" are left in the dust right now anyway because "hardcore players" don't log in. The game is a dusty ghost town most days.

And it would cater to all players. Casual players can always play casually. It wouldn't prevent that. The whole cap doesn't assist players with less time. Even if players with less time to play get all the gear, they still need time to memorize fights. The cap is just placing a restriction on players who would much rather progress.

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Right now if you've played since launch even someone who can only play 2 hours a day max can be full i90 putting them nearly on par with everyone who's been raiding since the beginning and the only reason it looks like a "ghost town" is because all the "casuals" are in dungeons or leveling with their precious time rather than afk in town.

It does help them though how many casual players would be around if instead of the month it would take them to get fully geared now they suddenly had to spend all their time in game for 6 months, where they'd have a hard time finding groups because all the grinders have had full gear since the 1st month. Casuals want to progress too and if there are dps checks that require good gear you can pretty much count them out of endgame forever.

-_-

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Most of them are complaining because it took Months to get done and now SE is swooping in removing the lockouts on Coils and Myth. So now anyone can just spend a few days to catch up.

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But that's progression, isn't that what you want? Or do you only want progression that makes you look like a special snowflake?

How will not having a cap on new tones not make I90 gear obsolete as well?

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

"Casual players" are left in the dust right now anyway because "hardcore players" don't log in. The game is a dusty ghost town most days ON MY LEGACY SERVER.

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Fixed that for you. Behemoth is always busy.

The problem with the lockouts in this game is it can be done within a day or so and with the Duty Roullete they made it more easier, while in other MMOs that I played, it'll most likely take about 3-4 days depends on your playtime.

T1 - T5 can be finished within 1 hour.
You can farm 450 myth tomes within like 3-4 hours (200 from Coil, 70 from Duty Roullete, and a couple of CT runs to get your weekly desired loot + 50 myth at the end)

PS:
I don't like the idea of removing new tome caps even with the low reward of the new tomes, one way or another you'll see everyone already full decked and face-rolling T6-T9 within a week or two.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

But that's progression, isn't that what you want? Or do you only want progression that makes you look like a special snowflake?.

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I want to play this game! Is that so much to ask for? Yeah I could cap out like I do now on Mondays, Then what stand around the rest of the week doing squat.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

snip

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i90 everything in 2.2 is the same as i70 everything back in 2.1. We had a second-best level of gear for all other content in the game, and we had a best level gear that everyone aimed towards getting. There is no need to gear alt classes in those gear, because just taking 2.1 as an example, there is no content for alt classes that require them to have i90 gear.

Also you underestimate the grinding ability of Asian players. My server is mostly filled with Southeast Asian players, and I reckon my server is probably the only server where tome mats are going for 1.3k each, and 2-star HQ crafted gear is less than 20k a piece. None of the T4 materias are above 15k in price, except Vitality 4, even T3 materias are going for less than 2k (Savage Aim 3, which up till 2 months ago, was 17k a piece).

Sooner or later, someone is going to figure out a way to skip trash mobs and bypass some locks. For example, the "locks" in WP didn't do much good at stopping speed runners did it? Same for gating AK - just clear what you need to clear, ignore all treasure chests, and ignore all other mobs. 1 hr then becomes 30 minutes, and if Haukke HM was not an indication yet, 20 mins for 50 mythos is a pretty damn good rate of return.

I gear my alts with Allagan (I have a static, and for gears that people don't need on their main class, we Greed roll on them as long as we have that class at Level 50 at time of roll), and I've only fully outfitted my PLD with i90 gear about 4 weeks ago, so I am now only able to spend my Myth on my WHM. Which...outside of Coil, I can probably survive anything else with i70/i80 gear.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I want to play this game! Is that so much to ask for? Yeah I could cap out like I do now on Mondays, Then what stand around the rest of the week doing squat.

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I find it very hard to believe that you or anyone else will have t6-t9 on farm in the first two weeks, and if the release schedule so far is any indication, ct2 will be on it's way.

And you can play, I don't see solid 50's on that fancy sig of yours.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Fixed that for you. Behemoth is always busy.

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LOL you got some serious legacy envy. It's like a prejudice with you, an obsession even. If your server is so busy because it doesn't have legacy players, why do you have such an issue?

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

Estimates

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I would estimate thusly:

-For BC, you're claiming no wipes and T1-5. I'm not including T5 at all because 99% of players haven't cleared it at all, let alone moved into one-shot territory. 1 hour for T1-T4 is generous, including no setup or transition time or time for wiping. If you don't have a static, enjoy the hour-long wait for every turn, plus a few wipes.
-Average CT group takes an hour. Few will clear in 45 minutes unless you queue up 3 of your own alliances. You've also neglected queue time, which can be an additional 10-20 minutes depending on job.
-Dailies give myth tomes at random, and it averages about 6 myth tomes per day (2 myth quests, other 4 philo quests). There is no way you're completing 6 dailies in 30 minutes; running to the edge of Zanr'ak, waiting for the FATE to spawn, and then smacking the mob for 10 minutes is your entire allotment. You're going to spend that long on each of the two quest areas, moving to the quest NPC, getting the quests, moving to the quest areas, completing the quests, going back to quest completion area, then leaving to next task.
-EX primals, sure, if your static runs them. If you don't have a static for that, then you'll be dedicating 5 hours to getting the parties together to do it right.
-Roulettes are going to take 30-60 minutes per primary roulette, depending on the group, plus 5-10 minutes for the Guildhest, then up to an additional two hours of queue time (been leveling THM; low-level queue takes 25-30 minutes). If you aren't a tank, you can't control the pace of most runs, either, so you get shoved into a slow group and you'll be in Brayflox for 90 minutes. You are not going to push CM or Prae through in less than 30 minutes; get over it.

So in reality, it's likely to take you

~1-4 hours for BC T1-4
~6-8 hours to get your CT loot and cap myth
~1-5 hours for EX primals
~1 hour per day for beastman dailies, 7 total
~2-4 hours per day for roulettes, 14-28 total

= 29-52 hours per week to do everything, depending on your job and affiliation (neglecting skill altogether), doing absolutely no other leveling or exploratory content. No time but the grind.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

I really don't understand why people who can only put in a couple hours a week started playing mmo's. They ruined the genre for those who played then because it was a bigger time sinker than single player games.

It really baffles me why...

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Because we're more social people than the sad sods who hijacked our genre. Why don't you go back to Progress Quest or Cookie Clicker? You don't need any online functionality to just grind all day.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

The game is a dusty ghost town most days.

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Change servers. Hell, SE should just disband the Legacy servers in the first place and send everyone off to other servers. Their existence create 90% of the complaints on this forum. Complaints about housing prices? Legacy problem. Complaints about population? Legacy problem. Here's your dusty ghost town on Coeurl, the scene I logged into just minutes ago, at off-peak time on an off-peak day. This is as barren as it gets:

http://i.imgur.com/yUuQpp7.png

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Originally Posted by juniglee

snip.

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Here is what I said in the Op

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Originally Posted by Arkista

.I would even say make it so no one can speed run the new dungeons. Add barriers like you did to stop people in AK, Make it so people can't skip mobs by locking them out with boss barriers..

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So yeah SE could stop people from speed running dungeons if they wanted to. Do I really want that? No.

I just don't understand why people are so worried about how fast other people can clear content. There are always going to be people who can put more time in a game.

I also understand that there isn't any content once your capped out to use an Alt job on as people keep saying. That's not the point I'm sure there are other people beside myself who like gearing all jobs or as many as they can.

For myself I like using MNK for CoB, PLD for CT, BRD for Primals and DRG or w/e I feel like playing to run dungeons. Do I need to have each job capped out in the best gear? No. It's just how I like to play. But with the lack of content in the game, I can see why most people don't like having more than one job.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

I find it very hard to believe that you or anyone else will have t6-t9 on farm in the first two weeks, and if the release schedule so far is any indication, ct2 will be on it's way.

And you can play, I don't see solid 50's on that fancy sig of yours.

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I'm pretty sure I wont be having T6-T9 on farm in 2 weeks. As for my Sig that doesn't update pretty old.

7:20 pm is peak time

Got a pic of Limsa or Uldah? There are always ppl in that zone.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

7:20 pm is peak time

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9-10pm EST is where it is most populated here. I can get more groups at 12am than 7pm. I'd say we have more west-coast players or something, but I don't know any. Just happens that way, I guess. /shrug

//EDIT:

Here's Limsa. It's my home point.

http://i.imgur.com/7haqwFP.png

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Originally Posted by Arkista

So yeah SE could stop people from speed running dungeons if they wanted to. Do I really want that? No.

I just don't understand why people are so worried about how fast other people can clear content. There are always going to be people who can put more time in a game.

I also understand that there isn't any content once your capped out to use an Alt job on as people keep saying. That's not the point I'm sure there are other people beside myself who like gearing all jobs or as many as they can.

For myself I like using MNK for CoB, PLD for CT, BRD for Primals and DRG or w/e I feel like playing to run dungeons. Do I need to have each job capped out in the best gear? No. It's just how I like to play. But with the lack of content in the game, I can see why most people don't like having more than one job.

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The way I see it, just specifically AK:
1. The first gate, you can skip a few single Hippogryphs. There's a chest that contains the Demon Brick minion, but nobody ever goes that side of the map.
2. Before the Demon Wall, you could skip a few of the Teratotaur/Hound Light. In fact, I discovered something a few months back where, you could use a tank to lure all the Dullahan/Teratotaur/Hound Lights, and if you walk off the edge at the Demon Wall, provided they were close enough when you run off the edge, they'll follow you down there, and be stuck there. The battle song will the continually play through the dungeon, and if you look down the ditch they'll be casting skills, but they won't ever be able to hit you.
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...9/blog/611696/
3. Gather up mobs till the 2nd Succubus, then for the stretch up to the 3rd Succubus, have the tank pull them all to the 2nd last Dullahan. The tank then dies in a separate corner of the room from the rest of the team, gets a Raise. When he's back up. Kill that second last Dullahan (or if safe, ignore it), and provoke the third Succubus. This opens the door. Then just ignore the last 2 Dullahans and go for the boss.

For your alt classes, i80 gear seems good enough. Matter of fact, my BLM is quite geared, but I've not spent a single point of Mytho on it. Just purely Allagan drops. You can get free i90 weapons and accessories from EM primals now too (some of which are also BiS for their classes). You don't *need* to have them, it is nice to, but I wouldn't make it something of an expectation. I too would like to gear my DRG in i90 Myth gear too, even based on looks. But as it stands, the lockouts exist, and I decided to gear my WHM, because I know I won't be getting Allagan healing loot anytime soon, as my static just got a new WHM.

Does anyone else not see the irony in players carrying around the standard of casual players but complaining they hit the weekly cap too fast and have nothing to do for the rest of the week?

These design concepts come from the fact that the mmo players of last decade have lives and jobs now and not much time to grind. They have something to do for the rest of the week they have other games to play or a family and life to spend that time with. The whole point of caps are so these people can just play a few nights a week and not get horribly outpaced in gear by people who spend every waking moment logged in. Tome gear is casual gear, and it's capped so the progression crowd doesn't just exploit the ease to obtain and gear stomp everything in a week.

Being against caps is being anti-casual.

And one last thing, some of you say that you have players logging in all week, w/e. But when I do pf even on a Wednesday, I wait a long time. PF pulls from all servers. When I queue Pf on Monday, instant access.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

PF pulls from all servers.

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LOL NO.

party finder is YOUR server. If you mean Duty Finder, thats from your Data Center, and if I remember correctly, all the legacy servers got grouped together.



Also, infinitely better Idea than no cap: MORE caps!

Leave raid lockouts as they are to get people to focus on a job, but have a tome cap per job, and make it so vendors only show you gear for your currently equipped job.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Does anyone else not see the irony in players carrying around the standard of casual players but complaining they hit the weekly cap too fast and have nothing to do for the rest of the week?


Being against caps is being anti-casual.

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No, it is not. Having all my jobs geared instead of 3 or 4 does not hurt or affect casual players at all. If anything, it would help because I would be able to fill empty PF slots with other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

And one last thing, some of you say that you have players logging in all week, w/e. But when I do pf even on a Wednesday, I wait a long time. PF pulls from all servers. When I queue Pf on Monday, instant access.

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DF(which i'm assuming you mean because Party Finder* is defiantly only your server) does not pull from all servers it pulls from the data center you're on, as far as i know(I have a feeling that's wrong and it only pulls together 4-5 servers but data center makes more sense). Also it matters a whole lot on what class you're playing and what the peak time is for your data center(not your world). In Behemoth if you que as tank it's always been instant for me and if you que as dps it's 40min to an hour depending on the time of day but pretty much everyday of the week.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

No, it is not. Having all my jobs geared instead of 3 or 4 does not hurt or affect casual players at all. If anything, it would help because I would be able to fill empty PF slots with other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

At 15 tomes per run that is 334 runs to get a full set of Tome gear assuming 1hr per run that's 334hr in a week???

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Using this as an estimate to gear all your jobs you'd need to spend 3000 hours grinding dungeons, which is 4 months, assuming you don't need to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, wait for que's or work to pay your sub and you spend all your time in game grinding.

I can't speak for everyone but that does not sound like a fun time.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

No, it is not. Having all my jobs geared instead of 3 or 4 does not hurt or affect casual players at all. If anything, it would help because I would be able to fill empty PF slots with other jobs.

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I'm curious how many "must be i85 or above" parties did you see in October?

I think the best solution is to have each job have its own cap.

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Originally Posted by Draucant

I think the best solution is to have each job have its own cap.

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I'd really like this but you'd have to make it so you could only use the tombs on that class otherwise you'd have ppl with every job, max one of them on the first week.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

These design concepts come from the fact that the mmo players of last decade have lives and jobs now and not much time to grind. They have something to do for the rest of the week they have other games to play or a family and life to spend that time with.

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It's funny how developers before would try to make sure you only play their game. Now developers design the game so that you can play other games in parallel. Killing one own's success??

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Originally Posted by Royze

I like the general theme of the OP. Artificial lockouts and cool downs are intrusive and lazy.


5. Make Twintania drop 250 of the new tomes every time she is killed. (Only twintania)

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Ew, no. Basically every group that can beat twintania can just fight her over and over again and have their new highest ilvl gear in a day or two?

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Originally Posted by Archulak

I'd really like this but you'd have to make it so you could only use the tombs on that class otherwise you'd have ppl with every job, max one of them on the first week.

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just make it so vendors only sell your currently equiped jobs gear.

2.2 new coil- 3rd tomestone.. previous lockouts lifted
2.3 new ct.. previous lockouts adjusted
2.4 new coil- 4th tomestone (and final unless that little line is not a 3D effect on the tomestone icon).. previous lockouts lifted
2.5 new ct.. previous lockouts adjusted
3.0 expansion new (??)stone, new coil or other endgame raid, previous lockouts lifted
rinse and repeat

the patterns in 2.0 are obvious and given the time it takes for any changes to actually go into effect it would probably be more beneficial to request changes in regards to the next expansion then to 2.??'s life-cycle, especially given the fact that they are currently working on 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Draucant

I think the best solution is to have each job have its own cap.

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People suggested this back before 2.1.... I wouldn't mind each job having its own cap, But I think it might be to difficult for the DEV Team to make a system to keep track of all tomes for all jobs and that's why they haven't added a feature like that. /wink

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Originally Posted by chococo

It's funny how developers before would try to make sure you only play their game. Now developers design the game so that you can play other games in parallel. Killing one own's success??

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I don't know how accurate the current sub rate is, So I really can't comment on success or failure. But I can say that if FFXIV took up more of my available play time then I wouldn't be spending a lot of money on other games.

This game is coming down to just resubbing every 6 months when they remove Content Lockouts and catch up in a week.

TBH I really don't want dungeons that only give 15 tomes, I just want to play the game without lockouts. I'm not worried about who can gear up faster than me or if I can gear up faster than others. A game is suppose to be enjoyable, And I only find about 45% of this game fun. SE knows what they need to do to make it better, It's going to take time, But in the mean time there are things they can do to make the game fun.

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Originally Posted by joshsecret

2.2 new coil- 3rd tomestone.. previous lockouts lifted
2.3 new ct.. previous lockouts adjusted
2.4 new coil- 4th tomestone (and final unless that little line is not a 3D effect on the tomestone icon).. previous lockouts lifted
2.5 new ct.. previous lockouts adjusted
3.0 expansion new (??)stone, new coil or other endgame raid, previous lockouts lifted
rinse and repeat

the patterns in 2.0 are obvious and given the time it takes for any changes to actually go into effect it would probably be more beneficial to request changes in regards to the next expansion then to 2.??'s life-cycle, especially given the fact that they are currently working on 3.0.

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So pretty much like I said come back every 6 months to catch up.

We are at the end of the patch cycle where people have full ilvl cap gear and can clear T1-5 in 1 hour. It took several months for people to get to this point, took the best groups 3 months too full clear eveything. When we get new content it is going to take people a couple months to learn new fights get enough gear to be able to full clear the whole raid in an hour.

So there doesn't need to be some huge grind with no cap.

Currently I have 3 full ilvl 90 with almost a 4th job geared in full ilvl 90. Probably by the time 2.2 comes out I should have about 5 full ilvl 90 jobs, so the lockouts work just fine if I can gear this many jobs before the cap is removed and new content comes out.

This will literally never ever happen so I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

Caps are in place for a reason, because without them people will chain run 4-mans until they become physically ill and will be geared out in full i120 two weeks into the patch. Then they've got 5 and a half months until a new raid tier comes out with no character progression to work towards. Use your imagine to figure out what this will do to retention rates.

Caps stink but they're here to stay unless Square Enix can figure out the magic secret to developing new raid tiers every three weeks. Considering not even the mighty Blizzard can do this, I think it's safe to say the current content release schedule will be maintained.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

They have already announced a new tombstone

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tombstone

tombstone

tombstone

It has been six months. Get your act together.

it should be a combination of tome and rare items required to get the new armors.

you can farm as much tomes as you want, but you'll need a semi rare item drop from the dungeon as well to trade for it. The dungeon can be designed to have split routes where you can only choose to get one rare item from a specific route per run.

the tomes can be used to trade for craftable materias for the next level of crafted i90-100 gear, or used to trade from items that can spawn mobs that drop other stuff, sorta like ffxi's abyssea.

I just hope it 100 myths + 30 of the new tomes for dungeons and maybe even a +40 on top of the 30 for DR?

My prediction is that the NEW Tomes will only drop on the Amdapor Township and T6-9.
T1-5 with have a LOOT lockout of one piece per turn kind of like CT.
New iLv gear will be 110.

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Originally Posted by chococo

It's funny how developers before would try to make sure you only play their game. Now developers design the game so that you can play other games in parallel. Killing one own's success??

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SE doesn't care if you play FF 5h/day or 5h/week as long as you pay your monthly fee.
Actually it's better for them if you play less because:
-it's less charge on servers
-you might buy other games they release (yes FFXIV is not the only game SE)

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Originally Posted by Arkista

.

Half the people on these forums complain because FFXIV is a Monday game.

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yes but with no cap at all or a per job cap, like some other people ask, it will be a updatemonth game (where people sub 1month then unsub)

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Originally Posted by juniglee

i90 everything in 2.2 is the same as i70 everything back in 2.1. We had a second-best level of gear for all other content in the game, and we had a best level gear that everyone aimed towards getting. There is no need to gear alt classes in those gear, because just taking 2.1 as an example, there is no content for alt classes that require them to have i90 gear.
/.../

I gear my alts with Allagan (I have a static, and for gears that people don't need on their main class, we Greed roll on them as long as we have that class at Level 50 at time of roll), and I've only fully outfitted my PLD with i90 gear about 4 weeks ago, so I am now only able to spend my Myth on my WHM. Which...outside of Coil, I can probably survive anything else with i70/i80 gear.

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and what prevent you to do your weekly coil with an alt class? afraid of failing because it's not full 90 yet?

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

sound to me like its time to put on the big boy pants and suck it up. Making grinding more rewarding than actually raiding defeats the entire purpose of having raids.

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This. Not to mention that systems like tomes need pacing mechanisms. When they're connected to the best gear available, stuff like a weekly cap is pretty much a given.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

and what prevent you to do your weekly coil with an alt class? afraid of failing because it's not full 90 yet?

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If I was pugging I'd go in any role I like. Since I'm in a static, we lot gear based on who needs it, and we have a certain level of trust. So there's no need to Need roll on items, so no reason to play an alt class in Coil now I guess? Similar to EM Primal Greed runs. You say upfront which gear you'd like to Greed on, and everyone respects that, so you just go in with your main class. That is not to say that you will fail on an alt class, but it gives you reason to at least go on your main class.

Once T1 - T5 is part of DF, I might play any role I like.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

If I was pugging I'd go in any role I like. Since I'm in a static, we lot gear based on who needs it, and we have a certain level of trust. So there's no need to Need roll on items, so no reason to play an alt class in Coil now I guess? Similar to EM Primal Greed runs. You say upfront which gear you'd like to Greed on, and everyone respects that, so you just go in with your main class. That is not to say that you will fail on an alt class, but it gives you reason to at least go on your main class.

Once T1 - T5 is part of DF, I might play any role I like.

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disagree
wanting to play an alt is enough reason to go as long as you can still get a set-up able to clear the content.

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this before, but my suggestion would be to make tomes a soft-cap...

So basically keep them the way they are now: 30-50 tomes per dungeon, bonus from daily roulette, etc., etc.... and the cap at 450.

But once you reached that weekly (soft-)cap they get drastically reduced: 3-5 per dungeon, 5 per daily roulette (once every day after you reach the cap) 1-2 per primal or treasure hunt...

I mean, if i.e. a head piece cost 495 tomes, you'd need to run 99 dungeons for it. If you take like 45 min to do one, that's 74 hours (over 3 days) of nonstop running dungeons. That's one hell of a grind...

I usually cap tomes at monday or tuesday, i consider myself neither casual nor hardcore (i play about 4-7 hours every day but i didn't beat T5 or EX primals yet). I would do a duty roulette and maybe 1-2 extra dungeons every day, and end my week with maybe 550-600 tomes that way. That's by no means an amount that would "leave casuals in the dust", and even if some hardcore players run 10 dungeons a day and end up with 2 pieces of gear every week... IMO for putting that much time into the game, they deserve them.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

disagree
wanting to play an alt is enough reason to go as long as you can still get a set-up able to clear the content.

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And so if I meet the iLevel requirement, I will go and play on any class I want.

I don't PF Coil since I have a static. For the most parts, I conform to the wishes of my static. I can play any class, if they wish me to play tank, then that's what I will play. If they wish me to play Paladin specifically (my static's T4 strategy involves 2 Paladins), then that's what I will do.

If I were to PF/DF Coil instead, I'd do it on any class I feel like.

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Originally Posted by Ninix

Caps stink but they're here to stay unless Square Enix can figure out the magic secret to developing new raid tiers every three weeks. Considering not even the mighty Blizzard can do this, I think it's safe to say the current content release schedule will be maintained.

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Any amount of money says blizzard could do this if they just made 4 bosses per raid tier and only one version of the fight.

Caps are there for a reason people. tomb based gear is supposed to be to help fill in the gaps that you dont get in drops from the max level content. The problem is there are only 8 drops possible a week, 6 for most. Im not really counting primals because primals didnt drop max ilvl till 2.1 so it will probably be the same middle level gear from new ones. So for most that doesnt make a drop per person and tbh i think most groups consider it good when half or more of it is actually an upgrade for main classes.

Caps suck but they do there job give us more bosses per raid tier at start so ppl arent dependent on tombs for gear.

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Originally Posted by Rednight

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this before, but my suggestion would be to make tomes a soft-cap...

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I hate to be vague and pessimistic, but that sounds like a cousin of the fatigue system that we had in 1.0...