[dev1079][Poll] Do you want CAPPED dungeons, or uncapped?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaide

I want the unwritten third option - enemy levels that increase based on average player level. If four rank 50's want to spend an hour fighting challenging enemies for rank 30 gear then more power to them. Their time would better be spent in the rank 45+ dungeon for the amount of effort they'd be required to put forth in both situations.

Also, my highest rank is 43 by the way - so I currently only qualify for the 25+ dungeon.

---

thats what the difficulty slider i keep suggesting would be good for, which is something already implemented in the game and wouldnt require but to make it work with the mobs in the dungeons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

we arent talking about rank 50 gear here!

---

I know that. I'm not talking about rank 50 gear either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Because the easy prey mob may not reward me with good SP, but it doesn't change the loot that it drops.

---

And hardly anything drops equipment except for skeletons and the R30 NMs. There isn't anything you can do about open-world mobs due to their very nature of being open-world. Nobody kills the R30 NMs on rank 30 classes unless they have to, which diminishes the value of the NM gear.

But you can fine-tune dungeons to give rewards appropriate to the effort required.

before going to say that it steamrolling with R50's, ask your self this, Are you or your buddy doing that? and since is an Instance, everyone can go in, regardless who and what rank they are. but only can be entered as a party, meaning majority of ppl here would probably have their own LS runs or something right?

Then it will be not much of a problem then for those team-players do run through that instances, regardless the cap rank/lvl

I dont understand why its it is so difficult to understand why certain players want it capped. As it stands, there is not *much* to do in this game, and certainly nothing that could constitute as challenging. By Se leaving these dungeons uncapped, they are already invalidating one of the could be challenging contents in the game.

I say that they should be capped, like BCNMs, so it can be FUN, and give us something to do, other than mindless leve grinding and behest failing.... or is it the other way round?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

What is the incentive for someone with all their levels above 40 to run a r30 Dungeon?

---

-Exploration
-Killing the NM boss (with Difficulty)
-Puzzles ( since i'm hearing that there's going to be puzzles of some kind)
-Killing other NM's that are possibly there aside from End Dungeon boss
-If Capped, You can Actually SP there and still enjoy that particular area and its surroundings

Probably more to that list I haven't thought of yet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kidkaze

I dont understand why its it is so difficult to understand why certain players want it capped. As it stands, there is not *much* to do in this game, and certainly nothing that could constitute as challenging. By Se leaving these dungeons uncapped, they are already invalidating one of the could be challenging contents in the game.

I say that they should be capped, like BCNMs, so it can be FUN, and give us something to do, other than mindless leve grinding and behest failing.... or is it the other way round?

---

on the same level is it so hard to understand why it shouldnt be forced, but an option to cap it?
or that its even easier to add the difficulty slider to it like leves to make the mobs harder?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

I say please leave them uncapped.. I like the sense that I can solo, duo , or trio them at a higher level..

Making the capped will make it like ffxi, which would cause waiting for party members and such... no thanks.

---

From what the dev's have said, it sounds like you need a full party for the higher dungeon and a 4 man party for the 25-30 one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Lets tackle one issue at a time please!

---

Sorry Durti! Not intending to derail your poll. I just think an enemy scaling option is a compromise we're more likely to see, and it would both prevent higher ranks from streamrolling through content and the need for SE to implement a player cap. We already have this mechanic in the game now when choosing leve difficulty so it would be easy for them to add.

Another issue is that the rank requirement gap between the two is quite large - so people are going to be doing the 25+ dungeon long after they've passed the optimal range. Capping the players just removes their sense of accomplishment for ranking up. Just for this reason, if you're only going to give me the original two choices, I'd vote for no cap. I think we can have both no cap and challenging content, however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

-Exploration
-Killing the NM boss (with Difficulty)
-Puzzles ( since i'm hearing that there's going to be puzzles of some kind)
-Killing other NM's that are possibly there aside from End Dungeon boss
-If Capped, You can Actually SP there and still enjoy that particular area and its surroundings

Probably more to that list I haven't thought of yet

---

-Help friends/others without making the dungeon "too weak"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

-Exploration
-Killing the NM boss (with Difficulty)
-Puzzles ( since i'm hearing that there's going to be puzzles of some kind)
-Killing other NM's that are possibly there aside from End Dungeon boss
-If Capped, You can Actually SP there and still enjoy that particular area and its surroundings

Probably more to that list I haven't thought of yet

---

I can do all of that at rank 50, except for the last one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

I respect your opinion, however I feel that Leaving them uncapped with just encourage the High Ranks/levels to Steamroll through them, and then after awhile it will just get old and people will complain how the Dungeons were to easy where's the "difficulty" blah blah blah. In the end.. it will just be another Arguement to add to the Forums ( Calling it)

---

Then what would be best is to have them uncapped and enable us to adjust difficulty.. there are more cons than pros if they are capped.. or maybe there should be an option to cap or not...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meph

-Help friends/others without making the dungeon "too weak"

---

As long as the Dungeon still has the "Difficulty" feel to it I wouldn't mind.

In my Opinion, I think they should have a "Rank Range" 25 being the start and like R40 is the cut off point (but what about the R41-45?) I just think it should be capped to 30 imo Just the R30 dungeon that way it will stay difficult ( I know the Streamrollers will disagree) but in the endit will make this game "Slightly" more Challenging than it is now..... :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I can do all of that at rank 50, except for the last one.

---

"Within a Dungeon" not outside of it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

"Within a Dungeon" not outside of it

---

What? If I am level 50, I can't gain anymore SP, even when capped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

As long as the Dungeon still has the "Difficulty" feel to it I wouldn't mind.

In my Opinion, I think they should have a "Rank Range" 25 being the start and like R40 is the cut off point (but what about the R41-45?) I just think it should be capped to 30 imo Just the R30 dungeon that way it will stay difficult ( I know the Streamrollers will disagree) but in the endit will make this game "Slightly" more Challenging than it is now..... :/

---

I agree with you, what i meant was that if the dungeon is capped at (let's say) 30 i can still help friends/other with a lvl50 and the dungeon is still challenging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

Then what would be best is to have them uncapped and enable us to adjust difficulty.. there are more cons than pros if they are capped.. or maybe there should be an option to cap or not...?

---

Look lets face reality ( even I have too), This game is way too easy for us all, by keeping the R30 dungeons uncapped the R50's will steamroll they'll do it a couple hundred times ( Most will do this imo), The Dungeons will get old to them, and then the Flame wars will start anew with a Brand new frontpage headlines ( SE WHAT ARE YOU THINKING KEEPING THESE UNCAPPED) inside it will probably enclose along the lines of this: With R30 Dungeons uncapped "There is no Challenge at all"

What's the Purpose of the R30 Dungeon? Just to sit there to be steamrolled or to look pretty?

Look all i'm saying is it really should be capped to creat as sense of Difficulty in this "easy mode game"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meph

I agree with you, what i meant was that if the dungeon is capped at (let's say) 30 i can still help friends/other with a lvl50 and the dungeon is still challenging.

---

Another words, Stay on the side lines and "if" by chance they need assistance you come plow that enemy away? Well, I suppose you make a good Battlewarden =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

What? If I am level 50, I can't gain anymore SP, even when capped.

---

Not being cocky or anything but, "Who's fault is that that they rushed to R50" just a friendly joke don't take it literary =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Another words, Stay on the side lines and "if" by chance they need assistance you come plow that enemy away? Well, I suppose you make a good Battlewarden =)

---

I think he's talking about actually participating as a rank 30 char, delevel-synced from his rank 50 character.

cap it! Gwahahahaha yes. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

As long as the Dungeon still has the "Difficulty" feel to it I wouldn't mind.

In my Opinion, I think they should have a "Rank Range" 25 being the start and like R40 is the cut off point (but what about the R41-45?) I just think it should be capped to 30 imo Just the R30 dungeon that way it will stay difficult ( I know the Streamrollers will disagree) but in the endit will make this game "Slightly" more Challenging than it is now..... :/

---

Hey Star, I feel like people are going to be doing this dungeon frequently from 25 - 45. If we cap people at 30 then the satisfaction they get from 15 rank ups will be cancelled out while they wait to meet the requirements for the higher level dungeon. Caps worked in XI missions like CoP because you went through it once and you were done. These dungeons sound like something they intend for you to repeat many times to meet all of the objectives. They may even be preferable to leves if the rewards are higher. I think an automatic level scaling feature (like with leves, but not set by the players) would allow people to play with their new uncapped ranks but not allow them to plow through all the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Not being cocky or anything but, "Who's fault is that that they rushed to R50" just a friendly joke don't take it literary =)

---

But there-in lies my issue. I want to run content that is challenging for my level. A r30 dungeon is 20 levels below my main, level cap or not.

These dungeons clearly aren't meant to be some hugely game changing thing. It literally was created simply to add content and something more to do other than grind. The SP is presumptuously on par with that you can get in competitive linked levequests.

Capping dungeons is a miserable tactic that clearly did NOT work in XI. Why? Because you couldn't get anything done in XI. Capping dungeons made it so no new players could progress through the game without begging or even paying other players to come with you. Remember those five hour long looking for party sessions? Yes, those excruciating and masochistic looking for party sessions were partly due to the fact that everything in XI was capped, and nobody wanted to re-clear the content.

Capping dungeons or even story mode missions prevents players from experiencing content and continuing to play the game. Will these dungeons eventually get replaced or go unused? Probably, but you could say that with any content in any MMO. The fact of the matter is, when they do go unused what happens to the players that want to experience them or get past the requirements of beating the dungeon to unlock a future one?

One of the most important things SE should have learned from XI is that capping things is a bad idea and prevents future players from staying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I think he's talking about actually participating as a rank 30 char, delevel-synced from his rank 50 character.

---

ah thats what I thought, but the way he worded it I didn't quite understand lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

on the same level is it so hard to understand why it shouldnt be forced, but an option to cap it?
or that its even easier to add the difficulty slider to it like leves to make the mobs harder?

---

No it is not, but for the sake of making more than ONE thing in this game challenging (I reserve the right to remove this word when the dungeons come out!) I would implore SE to consider capping. No one loses anything by having the dungeons capped anyways

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I think he's talking about actually participating as a rank 30 char, delevel-synced from his rank 50 character.

---

Yes i do ^^ Thank you Renta

(Sorry for the bad english ><)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tibian

These dungeons clearly aren't meant to be some hugely game changing thing. It literally was created simply to add content and something more to do other than grind. The SP is presumptuously on par with that you can get in competitive linked levequests.

Capping dungeons is a miserable tactic that clearly did NOT work in XI. Why? Because you couldn't get anything done in XI. Capping dungeons made it so no new players could progress through the game without begging or even paying other players to come with you. Remember those five hour long looking for party sessions? Yes, those excruciating and masochistic looking for party sessions were partly due to the fact that everything in XI was capped, and nobody wanted to re-clear the content.

Capping dungeons or even story mode missions prevents players from experiencing content and continuing to play the game. Will these dungeons eventually get replaced or go unused? Probably, but you could say that with any content in any MMO. The fact of the matter is, when they do go unused what happens to the players that want to experience them or get past the requirements of beating the dungeon to unlock a future one?

One of the most important things SE should have learned from XI is that capping things is a bad idea and prevents future players from staying.

---

That's what made FFXI challenging, because it was capped I hate games on "easy mode"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meph

Yes i do ^^ Thank you Renta

(Sorry for the bad english ><)

---

Haha, not a problem =), and Yesthat means your in favor of the "Rank Restriction" Just you or anybody that wants to help with an R30 Dungeon as a R50 you will be reduced the that rank Temp. I get it now =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Haha, not a problem =), and Yesthat means your in favor of the "Rank Restriction" Just you or anybody that wants to help with an R30 Dungeon as a R50 you will be reduced the that rank Temp. I get it now =)

---

Exactly ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tibian

Remember those five hour long looking for party sessions? Yes, those excruciating and masochistic looking for party sessions were partly due to the fact that everything in XI was capped, and nobody wanted to re-clear the content.

---

Err, these dungeons are designed to be done more than once, so unlike the missions in FF11, you won't have trouble finding people who want to do it again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tibian

Remember those five hour long looking for party sessions? Yes, those excruciating and masochistic looking for party sessions were partly due to the fact that everything in XI was capped, and nobody wanted to re-clear the content.

---

This was partly true depending on the job that you were playing, at what time of day/the week you were seeking party etc as with anything. You could usually find higher level people in your LS to help out in capped mission fights though, well they would in mine anyway ^^
However, then SE introduced Level Sync into FFXI and this capping of players levels to that of the party leader pretty much resolved this issue. (It brought about some new ones granted due to the way in which skill points worked etc but that's a different matter and not applicable to FFXIV at this moment in time). Therefore not all capping is bad :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tibian

One of the most important things SE should have learned from XI is that capping things is a bad idea and prevents future players from staying.

---

I would use the same argument saying the complete opposite. If they would have kept the caps I would think about going back to play FFXI instead of this joke of a game. Caps is what made it possible for higher level to help lower level and still not ruin de game for them. Removing the cap just promotes easy-mode, to me that doesn't keep people playing, when the game gets too boring, you quit. When rewards are given to you so easily people just quit because it just that boring.

And clearly, if we go with the poll, people are more in favor of caps than not. I think the Dev should listen to the majority as it probably reflects what the players really want.

Don't cap it like a max level, but like scaling down every class to the dungeon level. A R50 class would be like a R30 Class in the dungeon. Downscaled equip is ingame, they need now only to scaling down the ranks, atributes and action points.

cap and scaling down is pretty much winning out. /comfort

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Look lets face reality ( even I have too), This game is way too easy for us all, by keeping the R30 dungeons uncapped the R50's will steamroll they'll do it a couple hundred times ( Most will do this imo), The Dungeons will get old to them, and then the Flame wars will start anew with a Brand new frontpage headlines ( SE WHAT ARE YOU THINKING KEEPING THESE UNCAPPED) inside it will probably enclose along the lines of this: With R30 Dungeons uncapped "There is no Challenge at all"

What's the Purpose of the R30 Dungeon? Just to sit there to be steamrolled or to look pretty?

Look all i'm saying is it really should be capped to creat as sense of Difficulty in this "easy mode game"

---

The purpose of the R30 dungeon is to give the R30s something to do. Seriously does it matter if some R50s get some mid-rank gear? We all know that the R50 gear is going to be the best. If you want difficulty do the R50 dungeon. Anyone who wants a challenge would obviously do the R50 dungeon. Also the level to get into the R30 dungeon is 25+, this could mean the difficulty of the mobs could range from R25-R45 in that dungeon depending on which path you take and each path could take you to different rewards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Don't cap it like a max level, but like scaling down every class to the dungeon level. A R50 class would be like a R30 Class in the dungeon. Downscaled equip is ingame, they need now only to scaling down the ranks, atributes and action points.

---

which is what capping does.... ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaide

Hey Star, I feel like people are going to be doing this dungeon frequently from 25 - 45. If we cap people at 30 then the satisfaction they get from 15 rank ups will be cancelled out while they wait to meet the requirements for the higher level dungeon. Caps worked in XI missions like CoP because you went through it once and you were done. These dungeons sound like something they intend for you to repeat many times to meet all of the objectives. They may even be preferable to leves if the rewards are higher. I think an automatic level scaling feature (like with leves, but not set by the players) would allow people to play with their new uncapped ranks but not allow them to plow through all the content.

---

im glad you understand the difference between what cop was, and what these are


missions for story driven content is way different then dungeons meant to be used as "content" for leveling and gearing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Seriously does it matter if some R50s get some mid-rank gear?

---

It matters if all we need to do to twink our R30 classes with strong gear is to steamroll a dungeon a few times (as it also screws crafters out of selling us normal gear until we are able to get raid gear). If you want good raid gear, earn it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Engineer

I say please leave them uncapped.. I like the sense that I can solo, duo , or trio them at a higher level..

Making the capped will make it like ffxi, which would cause waiting for party members and such... no thanks.

---

No you cant solo them as you cant enter them solo, Cant duo them as you cant enter with 2 ppl, cant trio them as well same thing cant enter with 3 ppl

In favor of a level restriction being imposed on dungeons and liked the appropriate post.

Pretty much all the reasons for this have been well documented by other players so no need for further elaboration.

I'm fairly certain the numbers will speak for themselves.