Why I stopped paying for FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Jilse

NO offense to you personally, but why are we constantly subjected to the why I am quitting threads?

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To let the company and playerbase know why the customer is dissatisfied.
It may turn out to be something beyond SE's control, but understanding why your customers stop paying you is definitely something worth knowing.

Dear, Whimsicalalien

I know you want a f2p FFXIV account because of your latency issues with the servers. However due to the simple fact of not everyone does and ffxiv is not just some random Japanese MMORPG. I therefor deem your account not free to play and suggest a new or more powerful internet or pc. I hope this helps with what you are wanting from Square Enix as I guarantee this game is worth a subscription and your problem is not linked to everyone that plays this game.

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Originally Posted by Siphon

Dear, Whimsicalalien

I know you want a f2p FFXIV account because of your latency issues with the servers. However due to the simple fact of not everyone does and ffxiv is not just some random Japanese MMORPG. I therefor deem your account not free to play and suggest a new or more powerful internet or pc. I hope this helps with what you are wanting from Square Enix as I guarantee this game is worth a subscription and your problem is not linked to everyone that plays this game.

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There are f2p accounts? Well that's news to me, and begging for one certainly wasn't my intention at all. I'm in the Oceanic region and the connection has to go all the way across North Pacific to reach Canada so idk really how I'm supposed to fix it. As I said I used WTFast to play this game and it gives me about 20-30% improvement but I still have the issue of delay/latency. I don't get this issue in other games I play, just fyi.

I play wired on a PS3, on an NA server, and I walked into Titan HM for the first time and only got hit by tumult. *shrugs* Usually if there is lag it's my end, especially after 2.1

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

Yes, I am bad, I'm sorry, I don't have 5 gold medals under my name. I will never have superhuman reflexes and a top notch connection/system. I will never get to have a go at bads on the forums telling them just how bad they are and how good I am and how I could come to their house to beat the encounter for them.

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The POINT is, it's not SE's fault. Your problem might be correctable, but it doesn't seem like you've really tried, nor asked for help in fixing it. If you liked the game emough, you would attempt to do something about this before coming in here with an I QUIT thread.

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You are just a whiteknight nothing more dude.

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A white knight is one who blindly defends something without reason. I am not a white knight. Do I think the game is perfect? No. Do I think there are issues that need to be fixed? Yes. Do I have any complaints about the game? Yes. Not enough to keep me from playing, but yes, I do have some complaints. I am SICK of "white knight" being thrown around at anyone who defends anything. It's only white knighting if there is no basis for the defense.

There is PLENTY of basis for defending SE on this- Some people will get lag. That's just how the internet is. To blame it on SE without any proof that the problem is on their end is ludicrous. If the problem was all on SE, than even VPN tools like battlepnig or WTFast would not help.

Like I suggested before, I quit threads are just a breeding ground for negativity. There is no good reason to announce to the world that you're quitting. Nobody else really wants to know. SE doesn't need to hear it either, they have plenty of data and statistics on their end.

Asking players to get a better setup/connexion (like Yoshida does) is ridiculous imho when said players are already fulfilling game requirements.

The game is absolutely worth paying the sub for, but on the condition that it's working properly. It can be played currently, but creates more frustration than enjoyment.
Getting told it was our setup's fault (when said setup satisfies game requirements) was just the last straw. Way to make us feel cheated by SE... As if it was not enough that playing in these conditions makes it feel like the game is cheating you.
I'll be very happy to pay it again if SE adresses the issue properly (ie not ignoring/avoiding the question, or saying ridiculous things like they don't know how to design difficult content for regular-to-be-expected latency).

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The POINT is, it's not SE's fault. Your problem might be correctable, but it doesn't seem like you've really tried, nor asked for help in fixing it. If you liked the game emough, you would attempt to do something about this before coming in here with an I QUIT thread.

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Please, keep on telling me what I did and didn't do/try to resolve the issue. Surely you know what I did better than I because internet mindreading is something you seem to do in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'll do one better: A possible response to these threads. Just replace every mention of WoW and Mists of Pandaria with FFXIV, and pretend the "Sad Quitting WoW Peon" is a "Sad Quitting FFXIV Roegadyn".

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LOL THIS...so much this.

that video perfectly explains how the general consensus on "i quit and here is my life story" thread. in the end of the day, you quitting isnt that important. next week after this thread is locked and stash away, no one will remember the OP. if lag is such a huge issue that you have to unsub, then do it and just go. SE is aware that the server are lagging quite hard. i sure they are more aware of what is the actual issue than you are.

the only people that actually care about what you are saying is those with their own personal gripes with the game and want to your thread as a proxy to express their views.even then OP, they dont care about YOU, they care about having a way to make a complaint.

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

Please, keep on telling me what I did and didn't do/try to resolve the issue. Surely you know what I did better than I because internet mindreading is something you seem to do in this thread.

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Please, tell US what you did, so that we don't have reason to make such assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

Please, keep on telling me what I did and didn't do/try to resolve the issue. Surely you know what I did better than I because internet mindreading is something you seem to do in this thread.

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Uninstall your network drivers and re-install the newest ones? Fixed every latency issue i had before, where i was getting bad lag, often 90k, not one since.

Thanks for telling us why. We all really wanted to know.

However, I think the latency has improved. I managed to heal Titan HM on wireless the other day without getting hit once. Although I will admit I had trouble on Titan extreme on wireless... so will definitely go wired for that. But apart from that, I've had zero problems with lag.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

L2VPN or pingzapper.com; it's not SE's fault.

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While network latency isn't Square-Enix's fault due to a wide number of factors, coding their software to be playable under these circumstances is their responsibility.
Nowhere on the box or on the official game website or any other promotional material does it state that VPN, Pingzapper or any other form of latency reducing service is required or recommended.

So if the solution to making part of the game playable is requiring a second (unlicensed 3rd-party) paid service, then it absolutely IS Square-Enix's fault.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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Well all you do is defending SE because you cant believe that SE has a horrible Server issuse. You make me laugh hard, sorry i cant even take your Posts serious.

Oh yeah you are right, SE didnt had Server issuses back in 1.0-1.23 they didnt had Server issuses back in release of ARR. Sure we dont have 90k Errors and with the release of the datacenters alot more People suffering under the Lag Spikes even more. So yeah you are so right it isnt SE's fault, but you know, why we dont have such lag Spikes on other MMOs out there, if its the Computer or Network from the People?

To be fair, you have no Basis for defending SE. For me it Looks like that you a just scared about the "I quit" Threads because you dont want that this game getting down in any way, but it wont even it only would have 100k subbing base in the future, Yoshi would never deal with the Blame on going f2p so please dont be scared.

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While network latency isn't Square-Enix's fault due to a wide number of factors, coding their software to be playable under these circumstances is their responsibility.

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They can't code their software to compensate for your lag. The only true way to do this is to make the client responsible for everything from movement to damage calculation to LOS checks to everything else, and if you do that it makes it a LOT easier to hack and cheat. Hence why the games that have this employ a battery of rootkit-like anticheat tools that don't really work. MapleStory has not just one but two resident anti-hacking programs and still people are able to dupe and cheat with little effort.

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Well all you do is defending SE because you cant believe that SE has a horrible Server issuse.

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I'm sorry, but not all (in fact very few if any) latency issues are server issues. Server issues are things like the set response time (Which was already reduced in patch 2.1 for boss fights like what the OP is complaining about and PvP and other parts of the game later). High ping and lag spikes are not server issues. Those are network issues, and most of them are not in any way SE's fault.

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To be fair, you have no Basis for defending SE. For me it Looks like that you a just scared about the "I quit"

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"to be fair"? that's not fair, that's you hating on anyone who is satisfied. Why would I be scared about I quit threads? I log on to a server that still has login queues periodically. I'm not "afraid" of anything. The lack of maturity displayed in your post just further reinforces the laughability of it.

FFS, these thread drive me nuts.

Everybody needs to get it through their heads that the issue these people are experiencing is not a latency issue. FFXIV has quite possibly the worst netcode of any online game I've ever played. For some reason their position detection is horrid, their client-side verification and position extrapolation non-existent.

Yes, I'm happy if the power of your smugness prevents you from noticing this. However, SE IS losing subs over this issue, and the only thing you're doing by sticking your fingers in your ears about this issue involves a gun and your foot.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They can't code their software to compensate for your lag. The only true way to do this is to make the client responsible for everything from movement to damage calculation to LOS checks to everything else, and if you do that it makes it a LOT easier to hack and cheat. Hence why the games that have this employ a battery of rootkit-like anticheat tools that don't really work. MapleStory has not just one but two resident anti-hacking programs and still people are able to dupe and cheat with little effort.

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So you tell me they can't do it and then go on to give an example of how they could do it. Am I correct in understanding that?

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

So you tell me they can't do it and then go on to give an example of how they could do it. Am I correct in understanding that?

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No. I give an example of the ONLY way to do it, and why that way isn't effective.

If you make the client responsible for determining everything and make the server merely a device that manages connections, it would make ping and lag less of a factor, but any integrity the game would have had goes out the window and cheating becomes incredibly easy. it would ruin the game.

Additionally, it makes how you see OTHER players much less precise, especially if they do have lag.

In other words, you can't do it without creating a plethora of unpleasant side effects.

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

Uninstall your network drivers and re-install the newest ones? Fixed every latency issue i had before, where i was getting bad lag, often 90k, not one since.

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I don't get 90k at all and my internet is working just fine. The problem is the distance between where I live(Oceanic region) and Canada. And I have tried the stuff that people have suggested on these forums pingzapper, wtfast, registry fix etc...

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If you make the client responsible for determining everything and make the server merely a device that manages connections, it would make ping and lag less of a factor, but any integrity the game would have had goes out the window and cheating becomes incredibly easy. it would ruin the game.

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Well it hasn't ruined WoW. Which is like the most successful MMO out there. And other games seem to get by fine. Integrity sounds like a poor reason not to make it client side.

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

I don't get 90k at all and my internet is working just fine. The problem is the distance between where I live(Oceanic region) and Canada. And I have tried the stuff that people have suggested on these forums pingzapper, wtfast, registry fix etc...

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I have people in my company that play from your region just fine. That said the only thing you can do if none of that stuff helps you is transfer to one of the JP data center servers with a high English population, such as Tonberry, as the latency would be substantially lower.

It's quite laughable that you're playing from a region as far away as possible from the servers you chose to play on and complaining about lag like it's SE's fault. There are closer servers with a larger community from your region on them.

Create a new character on or transfer to Tonberry (I think there were a couple others as well). Everyone says the population is mostly English. Then if you still have unbearable lag we can talk.

You can create characters on multiple worlds, so feel free to test it out. If you mentioned your location sooner, we could have gotten to this point a lot faster.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No. I give an example of the ONLY way to do it, and why that way isn't effective.

If you make the client responsible for determining everything and make the server merely a device that manages connections, it would make ping and lag less of a factor, but any integrity the game would have had goes out the window and cheating becomes incredibly easy. it would ruin the game.

Additionally, it makes how you see OTHER players much less precise, especially if they do have lag.

In other words, you can't do it without creating a plethora of unpleasant side effects.

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May I see your degree? I'm assuming you have one since you're telling me what exactly is possible or impossible.

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

May I see your degree? I'm assuming you have one since you're telling me what exactly is possible or impossible.

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Actually, I do have a BA with a computer science major from the University of Maine (Farmington campus), and I spent a fair bit of time studying networking as well.

The internet is an unreliable construct with huge degrees of tolerance needed in various areas for it to function. The very thing that makes the internet work (a complex web of redundancy and fault tolerance) is also one of the main things that makes lag a common problem.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

So you telling me i am hating everyone who is satisfied?

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It sure looks that way to me. People who are happy are either not going to post on a forum at all (the most likely), or express their satisfaction and good experiences in the forum.

Your implication is that by me saying I'm not having probelms and suggesting how other people's problems probably aren't the game's fault and that there may be ways for said users to fix their problems is I'm a white knight and anything I say should be written off just because I'm not upset, not having problems, etc.

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When you are not afraid about it, i have to ask you why you even post in this threads and tell People to stop posting such threads?

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Because they're annoying and serve no useful purpose? One thing I can promise you is that if and when the day comes that I decide to quit playing this game, I'm not going to announce it to the world. I'm j ust going to quit. I'm sure somebody at SE is smart enough to understand the possible reasons why somebody would stop playing their game. It's not possible to please everyone though.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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So you telling me i am hating everyone who is satisfied? When you are not afraid about it, i have to ask you why you even post in this threads and tell People to stop posting such threads?

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I knew it would come too :p

Not all of us can play like this person... if I did it like him, I'd be dead on the first Landslide. I have to be on the move before the marker even appears :(

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I like how he gets away with jumping (adds about 5 mins in). Pretty sure it's common knowledge location checks aren't very compatible with jumping (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...stments-to-PvP), yet this guy casually jumps out of plumes. What I wouldn't give...



P.S -- EvokerKeii, thank you :)

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Originally Posted by Priya

I like how he gets away with jumping (adds about 5 mins in). Pretty sure it's common knowledge location checks aren't very compatible with jumping (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...stments-to-PvP), yet this guy casually jumps out of plumes. What I wouldn't give...


P.S -- EvokerKeii, thank you :)

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Well, jumping isn't supposed to help you avoid attacks in the first place, and it also makes you move slower in the forward direction. It shouldn't take a genius to see that if you jump you're actually more likely to get hit.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I have people in my company that play from your region just fine. That said the only thing you can do if none of that stuff helps you is transfer to one of the JP data center servers with a high English population, such as Tonberry, as the latency would be substantially lower.

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When I began playing at launch the server I'm currently on was the only one that wasn't locked out of NA/EU. I picked NA/EU because I didn't know about this game's delay issues. I have played other MMOS from the US/Europe before and have never encountered such a problem so how was I to know. I noticed the delay while leveling but I assumed it's due to so many people being crammed in one spot and the game being new and I thought that surely they are going to fix this later on... Anyways I had the high hopes for the recent patch since they promised to add 0.1 sec to instances but it didn't do any difference to me at all.

Since you're already using WTFast anyway I'm going to suggest, like alot of people are already, to use pingzapper instead :)

Though it'd be nice if the people using these didn't have to use them at all lol

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Create a new character on or transfer to Tonberry (I think there were a couple others as well). Everyone says the population is mostly English. Then if you still have unbearable lag we can talk.

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After talking to people on these forums I had decided to try playing on a Japanese server to see how it is. I didn't know that Tonberry has a English speaking community and I rolled on another one, that server only had people speaking in Japanese and I couldn't find any Eng speaking FC. I had made the decision to quit because I don't want to transfer(even now that I know that Tonberry has Eng FCs still no) and I don't want to re-roll either because my current toon would be a waste of time and I hate leveling all over again just because SE decided to make it different from others in relation to how latency is handled.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If you mentioned your location sooner, we could have gotten to this point a lot faster.

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I have thought things through and considered all possible actions and decided to quit because I find the whole situation unenjoyable. When I made this post it wasn't my intention to talk about my location and why I'm having delay issues, I did not intend to discuss it here and only did so because too many asked/demanded I do and not particularly politely too but it's the forums so whatevs. I made the post to tell SE and others about why I'm leaving and the issues I've had and wasn't impressed with.

Funny.

The "fault" seem to be pretty changeable.

Reasons why it's OP's fault:
- You didn't do anything to solve the problem, so it's your fault.
- You did try to solve it? Then it's your location's fault.
- Problem happens to people who are not oceanic? Wonder what'll be the next party at fault.

Reasons why the fault is absolutely not SE's:
- The way the Internet works makes lag a common occurence, that's not SE's fault.
- Wait, didn't SE know that when they decided to make an *online* game? Yeah, but if they tried to code their game in a way that compensates for latency, the game would have cheaters and hackers.
- Oh wait... Don't we already have cheaters and hackers? Wonder what's next...

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I made the post to tell SE and others about why I'm leaving and the issues I've had and wasn't impressed with.

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You're not telling anybody anything they haven't already heard before, which is the primary reason I object to I quit threads in the first place. You're not doing anyone a service, even if you think you are.

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The "fault" seem to be pretty changeable.

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This was covered way back. There are many different causes of lag. The vast majority of them exist somewhere on the line between you and the servers. Not the servers themselves. The main server cause of latency-like issues was addressed for most things that matter in 2.1 and will be done for the rest of the game as soon as they're sure it won't strain the servers too much.

You make this silly post to discredit people defending the game but it's not working because you provide no valid explanations of your own, you're simply abusing logical fallacies to create what sounds like an argument where none exists.

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- Oh wait... Don't we already have cheaters and hackers? Wonder what's next...

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The means you have to cheat and hack are much lower than in a game that puts the client in charge of everything. The only thing you can do (easily, at least) most of the time is use scripts or bots to automate repetitive actions. If the client has full control you can use actual trainers and hacks to dupe items, modify your stats, kill stuff instantly, be invulnerable, and all kinds of stuff to trivialize any aspect of the game. Let me ask you, do you want stuff like that to be easily accomplished?

(That's not to say that the game never had any security issues, but the ones we know about have since been fixed)

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You're not telling anybody anything they haven't already heard before-

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But the more people bring up an issue, the more likely a company is to realize it's important to them.

Just because these threads annoy you personally doesn't mean they're useless.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

(That's not to say that the game never had any security issues, but the ones we know about have since been fixed)

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You just made my day.

Poor OP. The guy just wanted to express how he felt. There's no rule against that.

So what if other people have been complaining about the same thing? The redundancy might do some good. Like Gramul said:

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Originally Posted by Gramul

But the more people bring up an issue, the more likely a company is to realize it's important to them.

Just because these threads annoy you personally doesn't mean they're useless.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Latency has to be fixed. I m having same issue as OP. It blasts me even when I am out of red... nonsense.

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For everyone having "latency" issues, try watching this vid on how to fix it yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z37IY1XkLDI

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Well, jumping isn't supposed to help you avoid attacks in the first place, and it also makes you move slower in the forward direction. It shouldn't take a genius to see that if you jump you're actually more likely to get hit.

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Right. The guy in the video jumps like he's bored, and he doesn't get hit.

Why don't you try another route?

I had already unsubscribed, but I came back after I realised that after a few days I was already missing the wonderful world of Eorzea. So, decided to play the game MY WAY, ignoring the damn HM Primals etc. Accursed Titan may throw you out of a platform, but is that a reason to allow him to throw you out of the game too?

Once you decide that, you realise that there are so many things to do in the game (even simply walking around and looking at those breathtakingly beautiful places!) that the only problem is having enough time.

But of course, if you spend almost all your game time beating your head against the Titan wall or whatever, you are bound to get burned if you are not the kind of masochist player who actually likes that

Gear? You'll get more gear anyway than you need for that kind of gameplay.

Yes, I know it's not how Yoshida-san & C would have you to play the game. They will continue to cater mostly to the 5% minority and ignore glaring problems, as all MMO developers do. But we "casuals" should surprise them and REFUSE to be thrown out of Eorzea. It is OUR world too! :)

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

Why don't you try another route?

I had already unsubscribed, but I came back after I realised that after a few days I was missing the wonderful world of Eorzea. So, decided to play the game MY WAY, ignoring the damn HM Primals etc.

Accursed Titan may throw you out of a platform, but is that a reason to allow him to throw you out of the game too?

Once you decide that, you realise that there are so many things to do in the game (even simply walking around and looking at those breathtakingly beautiful places!) that the only problem is having enough time.

But of course, if you spend almost all your game time beating your head against the Titan wall or whatever, you are bound to get burned if you are not the kind of masochist player who actually likes that

Gear? You'll get more gear anyway than you need for that kind of gameplay.

Yes, I know it's not how Yoshida-san & C would have you to play the game. They will continue to cater mostly to the 5% minority and ignore glaring problems, as all MMO developers do. But we "casuals" should surprise them and REFUSE to be thrown out of Eorzea. It is OUR world too! :)

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You're just back because you didn't had better choices or alternatives. If TESO and wildstar was out, you was probably giving them a try instead of subscribe again.
Until they are available i agree, so far this game is the most beautiful available. And yes, i agree with your post: if back , pick a new route not giving a crap of what is supposed to be your gameplay (ex primals, coil etc).
Hours will pass, time to sleep, the game gave you some entertainment and some laugh on LS/FC chat. :)

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Originally Posted by snakey77

FREE LOGIN WEEKEND… hmm really there grabbing at straws to boost there slowly falling subs maybe??? i don't see many behemoth mounts running around if it was a winner i would have though there would be more my guess they may even be a FREE LOGIN WEEK by then:)

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Award winning post here...

So your BEST assumption for the free weekend is falling subs? Sorry you don't get ESO beta invites :(

So lots of us bought 180 day subs, guess what? Still time left on those before our renew time comes up and you need 270 days for behemoth. Which means you are going to see a flood of them soon enough.

WTFast.com fixed mine, since SE can't. Haven't gotten any lag at all since I tried it. Will probably sub after the free month.

The hit detection in this game is horrid. Personally I can't wait till they fix it.