Titan is hard because your camera isn't zoomed out, not because of server-side delays

Am I the first one to ask...

Who uses their keyboard for movement?!

I'd say this is the reason you're dying in Titan more than anything. Learn to move with the mouse and leave your hands off WASD. Then your camera-type is pretty much a non-issue, and you instantly run in the direction you point the camera at. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

I have never had this issue in other MMOs, including both American and Korean ones.

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Of course you wont, beside Tera, there is no MMO that demanding character positioning and much less room for error as this one.

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Originally Posted by Vapes

This made me lol and facepalm.

Granted, I don't have a lot of problem with Titan personally, but I won't use my ability to adapt to a terrible situation to try to justify that situation.

How long are they going to put their head in the sand about the delay issue and not acknowledge it exists?

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seen as the 300ms latency is something they are probably not going to be able to fix they will probably just keep blaming other things.. i learnt how to pre-dodge and force location update (by casting when leaving an aoe) none of this was fixed the second i zoomed out lol.. if anything you cant zoom out far enough on titan

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Originally Posted by Allyra

You are not going to see the person move during a lag spike, or sometimes my fc people will see me run in place instead of actually moving out. The lag means that the servers aren't registering your movements, so the game is obviously not going to display those movements to the others playing the game.

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But i'm not getting any lag spikes and I clearly see them trying to get out of the plumes are landslide or whatever. I see clearly that they are not out of the clear but low and behold, their first response was "man that lag sucks". I'm not saying it doesnt exist because I do see it but people are using it as an excuse when they do get hit way to often when it's actually not the case to save face.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

How can you even know that's true? Just because it doesn't happen to you?

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I can tell when someone is lagging, and when they're just not moving their asses. It's especially obvious when it comes to Landslide and what direction they fly in when they're hit. In my experience, better than half the time a person blames "lag" for being hit, they're just using that as an excuse and hoping no one questions them.

That's not to say people don't lag. Like I said, I've seen it. But it isn't as common as some would like to have us believe.

If someone turned off your screen before a WotL, certain players who are extremely good can still avoid it, but nobody would consider this to be justification for turning off your screen before a WotL. You can avoid this stuff if you're either good enough or you have workarounds, but the game is still at fault for basically showing you a completely out of date view of the battlefield that forces you to need either extreme reflexes or memorize the pattern since you cannot trust your screen to tell you the right thing.

Yea titan is hard when ur fully zooned in but its altest its a challange.

Legacy controls help so much in that fight or if you are used to the standard controls like I am you strafe.
The only times I have ever died to plumes has been in bad positioning where everyone decides its awesome to surround me and i litterally have no escape. Or i mess up on bombs by either running in to soon or to the wrong place. regardless these were my fault. One thing i do notice and explain in titan fights is to the people who think its awesome to turn with their wasd then try to run out which gets them killed. I explain how strafing or legacy makes it easier to run out of danger and not have to waste time spinning their char to then move to the direction they want.


Many caster try taking chances to finish a cast then dying to plumes to it. people admitting they did not see the other plumes close by or bombs because they didnt zoom out. Titan is a joke a real joke when you know his rotations its darn easy and if everyone cooperates into positioning, plumes is nothing of a problem. It easy to blame lag or latency when many people have beaten titan.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So you're telling me that I'm being willfully ignorant because i don't suffer from lag issues that prevents me from beating Titan? (3rd relic in progress btw.)

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I have two relics too, that is completely irrelevant. The point is because it doesn't happen to YOU, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It seems east-coast friends aren't having this issue, but those on the west coast/EU are.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Yeah, I've been in groups where someone in the party gets hit by landslide and automatically they bust out "Man I was totally out of that" when me and other people noticed that in fact they moved to late. With that said, I don't doubt some people have lag issues but people blaming the lag when they clearly messed up is getting out of hand.

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You do realize that maybe on their screen they moved and then the server has to update and it shows them still in and running at the wrong moment? It still lends evidence of server lag. Ive seen cases in AK where someone was purely running all the time and still got hit, thier char was rubberbanding before our eyes.

So yes, there is an issue. Im sorry, its just an elephant in the room. But im glad you can get through it all with no issues. I however KNOW that people are having legit probs.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Unless you mean to say your connection has been running fine up until the moment Titan uses Landslide, Ifrit uses a Plume, Garuda uses Mistral Shriek, etc. etc. and that the game decided to suddenly screw you at the moment of that attack...multiple times in a fight...across many runs...

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No, but those are the ones other players are going to notice it. My lag happens during stomps, but who is going to notice it besides me, when I wouldn't be moving out of it anyway? There are several times where everyone (mob/pcs) stops moving with landslide up, and I will run to completely the other side and still get hit. Equally, sometimes the lag happens JUST BEFORE titan turns around for landslide. I could recite the rotation in my sleep, but it's a gamble to run because I know once things catch up I either ran out of LS, or ran into an LS. I have counted titan runs where I got the rubberband effect 10 times.

A good example of this is demon wall. I had once where I moved to the center for the push, didn't get pushed back. After everyone ran back, I stayed in the center and only went to the outside when purple spawned, and THEN got pushed off the ledge.

(sorry for all the multiple posting, stupid character limit is stupid.)

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

You do realize that maybe on their screen they moved and then the server has to update and it shows them still in and running at the wrong moment? It still lends evidence of server lag. Ive seen cases in AK where someone was purely running all the time and still got hit, thier char was rubberbanding before our eyes.

So yes, there is an issue. Im sorry, its just an elephant in the room. But im glad you can get through it all with no issues. I however KNOW that people are having legit probs.

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Look, I didnt say it's not an issue, all I'm saying is that alot of people are using it as a crutch. You going to tell me that simply isnt true?

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Of course you wont, beside Tera, there is no MMO that demanding character positioning and much less room for error as this one.

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Anything with PVP does. And that's usually my number 1 priority in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

But i'm not getting any lag spikes

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This is irrelevant. You see what the game sees, the game isn't seeing these people moving because of the spike, so you won't see it either.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Look, I didnt say it's not an issue, all I'm saying is that alot of people are using it as a crutch. You going to tell me that simply isnt true?

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I can tell when someone is lagging, and when they're just not moving their asses. It's especially obvious when it comes to Landslide and what direction they fly in when they're hit. In my experience, better than half the time a person blames "lag" for being hit, they're just using that as an excuse and hoping no one questions them.

That's not to say people don't lag. Like I said, I've seen it. But it isn't as common as some would like to have us believe.

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And yet... we still have alot of people coming onto the forums and complaining about it. Why come on the forums to complain about it if they are just using it as an excuse for their incompetence? Seems like and awful waste of time to me.... *eyerolls*

I have no doubt that thers a "Few" that use it for just not reacting fast... but im willing to bet, judging on the number of complaints about this... and the 1000+ post about it floating around here somewhere.. that its kinda an se issue.

Edit: Wait! found the post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-fix-something. Enjoy.

I can't say it's 100% one way or the other, nor can any of you. We know it's an issue, and I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt until the issue is resolved rather than trying to guess at the statistics.

fwiw, it seems like EVERYONE in Southern California are getting routed to that Tata Communications. That is shown by people posting their tracert in the like ten million threads on the issue.

So I think that it's happen to a lot more people than some want to admit.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

I have two relics too, that is completely irrelevant. The point is because it doesn't happen to YOU, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. .

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Yes, it may exist but the thing is people are blaming SE - If it was on SE's side everyone would have the problem, everyone. You wouldn't have 2 relics, I wouldn't be working on another and I sure as heck wouldn't be able to dodge even a coblyn's shatter attack, let alone Titan if SE's servers were truly at fault.

The one thing, as I said earlier, many people still refuse to do is check with their ISP to see if they throttle P2P type traffic - A lot of people in Europe has this problem because a lot of European ISPs for sure throttles P2P - Yes, your internet is flawless, but you're not P2P constantly using the internet unless you're torrenting (generally), so people who say "everything is fine on my end and i still get hit" did they really check if everything is fine? Lag happens, it's part of online gaming but the fact as someone said you can see which way they get hit if they truly did move..is the biggest indicator.

If I see you get hit backwards and you say "i moved"...you lied.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

No, but those are the ones other players are going to notice it. My lag happens during stomps, but who is going to notice it besides me, when I wouldn't be moving out of it anyway? There are several times where everyone (mob/pcs) stops moving with landslide up, and I will run to completely the other side and still get hit. Equally, sometimes the lag happens JUST BEFORE titan turns around for landslide. I could recite the rotation in my sleep, but it's a gamble to run because I know once things catch up I either ran out of LS, or ran into an LS. I have counted titan runs where I got the rubberband effect 10 times.

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This example is unlikely to be a server issue and more likely to be an issue with your own hardware. Keep in mind that everyone uses the same server hardware on SE's end, so if it's a server issue, it should affect your entire party in one way or another at the same time.

For example: If seven of you are in the danger zone for Landslide and everyone makes it out but one guy, and that guy calls lag, would that not indicate that he either failed to move in time or that the lag issue was on his end? The other six of you made it out of the way of Landslide just fine, but little Jimmy Dragoon gets sent flying like the bra of an Ul'dah hooker on a Saturday night? Doesn't sound like the server is to blame for this, and this is the majority of scenarios you will encounter with other people getting hit by these things.

Again, not saying the issues don't exist from time to time, but if the common denominator between all players is the server, and some players rarely have issues while others are constantly getting hit, I think it's time to examine the hardware/ISP/Skill of the player rather than constantly blame the servers.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yes, it may exist but the thing is people are blaming SE - If it was on SE's side everyone would have the problem, everyone. You wouldn't have 2 relics, I wouldn't be working on another and I sure as heck wouldn't be able to dodge even a coblyn's shatter attack, let alone Titan if SE's servers were truly at fault.

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No where did I put the blame on anyone, all I said was it exists. There are people in the thread claiming it doesn't exist. Not that it's not SE's fault or an ISP issue or w/e. They are saying it's all a lie and an excuse. And I take huge beef with that because I see it with my own eyes.

With that said this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ta#post1504742

Gives a good reason as to why we need to put pressure on SE whether they are to blame or not. Because they are more likely to get tata to fix their issue than we are.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

This example is unlikely to be a server issue and more likely to be an issue with your own hardware. Keep in mind that everyone uses the same server hardware on SE's end, so if it's a server issue, it should affect your entire party in one way or another at the same time.

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It is the ISP, not my hardware.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

If I see you get hit backwards and you say "i moved"...you lied.

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For you: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-fix-something.

Big elephant in the room, i tell ya.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

This is irrelevant. You see what the game sees, the game isn't seeing these people moving because of the spike, so you won't see it either.

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I've seen people dying out of the Weight of the Land, flying in wrong directions after the Land Slide, getting bombed while at my side...

Honestly, I don't judge anyone who dies there. The netcoding's slugginess really shows at that place.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Honestly, I don't judge anyone who dies there. The netcoding's slugginess really shows at that place.

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Ya that's all I ask for when it comes to players. Rather than pointing fingers and just claiming "you suck!" Better to actually add your voice to our issue and help us push where we need to push to get this resolved. Getting it fixed will also help those that don't get the lag because it means less titan wipes. :3

I don't lag on Titan, if my FC did 10 Titans in a row we most likly wouldn't lose any.

While it is possible to have ISP issues, or people who live in Europe and are not near the FFXIV servers. Lag often isn't the cause to why people don't win this fight. More often its a lack of understanding on the fight. Memorize Titan's pattern so you can be better prepared for what is coming up and know rock patterns. If I join a random DF group I see a lot of people who have no clue what they are doing, they lack familiarity with the fight. They just have no reflexes to move out of stuff.

People who play fast paced fps and action games are much better at reacting to stuff like Titan then people who only play slow paced games. A lot of the problems on Titan boil down to a skill issue rather then a lag one. That is why I get tired of people blaming lag that most of the time is a excuse.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

The "delay issue" is a problem with ISPs, not the game. A number of people, including myself, dont have any lag.

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Yup! And that is exactly why every single game i play online does not have this issue, just FFXIV. Next excuse please!!! :o

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Yup! And that is exactly why every single game i play online does not have this issue, just FFXIV. Next excuse please!!! :o

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The way players connect to each game maybe different. Some isp might not handle some games well, but others better.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Yup! And that is exactly why every single game i play online does not have this issue, just FFXIV. Next excuse please!!! :o

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XIV's data is handled as P2P traffic, most other MMORPG's data is not, including XI.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

The "delay issue" is a problem with ISPs, not the game. A number of people, including myself, dont have any lag.

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I live in new Zealand playing on US servers , if I can do titan with the lag I have, then anyone can .

Lag is not the problem , its not knowing the patterns and to not be moving before they hit.

DPS have no excuse at all for dying , Ive seen them standing around waiting for cast to finish while getting hit by plumes , instead of stop casting and moving .

Problem is latency issues happen with the location of players especially Australian players. There are programs (battleping) to lower and control your ping during instances. You can also predict when plumes are coming next and pre-move it works 100% of the time when perfected. If you can't dodge plumes get your HP up and eat one.

Zoomed out camera I don't think so....
Also when I went with my friends on their first relic they wiped multiple times. Then I told them about the "legacy" walking setting and they dodged no problem.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

XIV's data is handled as P2P traffic, most other MMORPG's data is not, including XI.

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So, i pay to play this game and have this issue. But free to play games i don't pay for doesn't have this issue? What am i missing here? DCUO has HORRIBLE servers, and even in that game, when you're out of a circle, you're out of a circle....

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Originally Posted by Felis

Fix is coming with 2.1

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Is there a source for this? I hope you're right but I haven't read any such claims that they intend to let us zoom out more.

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Originally Posted by SuP3R_Ch1cKeN

FYI.. that's how all games work.. Not just localized to FFXIV..

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FYI you either have a horrible connection or have never played any other AAA title. I get higher pings in WoW and GW2 vs this game (80 in wow vs 20 in realm reborn) and every action in WoW is virtually instantaneous. I don't get any noticeable delay. I can pretty much mount up in this game while running and it doesn't even cancel until the cast bar is almost 100%. Even starcraft in the 90s on dial-up didn't have the latency this game does.

I bet once S.E puts in ilevel for the fight, players will start beating it more.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

The "delay issue" is a problem with ISPs, not the game. A number of people, including myself, dont have any lag.

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This just isn't true. We all experience this lag and it is definitely NOT an ISP problem. It's how the game handles the data and this lag has been confirmed for everyone. I guarantee that if you recorded and posted a video of how your game runs, it would be the same exact lag that we all suffer through. This is how it was in the launch for FF14, and even how it is and always will be and has been in FF11.

There have been dev posts citing this exact delay issue which acknowledge its existence, as well as say that they will not fix it... whether or not it's true that they won't/can't fix it for ARR though I can't say. :)

Lag is a legitimate issue. I would think the 1000 some odd people (remember, this number represents only a small amount of players who don't even post, so the problem is probably more widespread) posting in the mega thread in the technical support forums would affirm this.

Monday night (when everyone logs in to cap Myth/run Coil) I was receiving 5-10 seconds of lag in between actions regardless of whether or not I was in an instance or out in the world gathering. I confirmed it's not on my end because my speedtest report was where it should have been and I was maxing out my download on Steam. (not while I was actually trying to play) It seems like when so many people are sending packets to the game servers that it really bogs things down along the route I have to take to get to the game servers.

Basically, don't discount lag as a legitimate problem. Several people might try to use it as a crutch when it's really not the issue, but it's still an issue for some people nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

And yet... we still have alot of people coming onto the forums and complaining about it. Why come on the forums to complain about it if they are just using it as an excuse for their incompetence? Seems like and awful waste of time to me.... *eyerolls*

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Not saying the lag issue isn't prevalent, because it really is, but there will always be bads who make excuses. Like the ones who whine for class nerfs instead of trying to learn to play.

Typically, though, the majority of these players are PVPers. This game has no PVP at the moment. When it gets some, I expect to see a small rift of sorts.

Then I will giggle, because it's funny making bads cry!

Died in three separate Titans tonight to Wank of the Land. EVERY time I was well clear of the aoe, yet it still blew me up. Sort this out please SE.

Btw : Playing from the UK, on Excal server. 80-120ms ping typically.

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So on standard setting, when you press S, you do that slow backpedal thing away from whatever you're facing. On legacy setting when you press S, you turn around and run at normal speed towards the camera.

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I never run backward, I always strafe to dodge.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

You are not going to see the person move during a lag spike, or sometimes my fc people will see me run in place instead of actually moving out. The lag means that the servers aren't registering your movements, so the game is obviously not going to display those movements to the others playing the game.

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This. I don't know what to say but on my connection sometimes it's super smooth and other times well not. What do I do? I know the rotations and make sure I'm ready to move just before they start so I shave off that little bit of time between me seeing the animation and my body responding. On those nights I have to do that, I'll notice tons of people getting hit by landslide but when I look at their health bars they're fine. Then all of a sudden their character moves really fast out of the way. Can't see how it can be my connection cause I normally only notice this in dungeons. Not when I'm out doing normal fights out in maps like fates or chimera.