Monk- general discussion and feedback

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Originally Posted by Esmian

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You don't have to maintain stacks of a buff as a drg, imagine for a second you have to go through three full rotations to get the heavy thrust buff and achieve max dps. The buff drops everytime between trash and sometimes on boss fights between phases and such. It kinda sucks.

I think what most people are looking for in a ranged attack is a way to MAINTAIN the Greased lightening buff between pulls or decrease the rate at which it decays over time.

Example:
Maintain Balance: 30 second CD, Locks Greased lightening duration in place for for 7 seconds OR Adds 7 seconds to the current Greased lightening duration.

Or

Chi Blast: 30 second CD, Deals X Damage based on Current TP. Add's one stack to Greased lightening.

I think the silence should be removed from AotD completely. It absolutely destroys your DPS on fights like ADS having to hold opa for any length of time to insure it's up.

Suggestion, Add a CD and silence effect for One Ilm Punch to be on par with other silences from other jobs.

I agree with having Greased Lightning stacks fall off one at a time. That sounds ideal to me. Also, having the buff from Twin Snakes last a little longer would help with fitting True Strike into the rotation more often at lower Skill Speeds.

I believe Shoulder Tackle and Perfect Balance are fine the way they are. I haven't had any trouble with the two of them yet.

I don't think Monks should have a Chi Blast (not as their first ranged move at least). Rather, seeing as chakrams were a thing in 1.0—granted, I don't know to what extent since I didn't play that version—throwing them could be a good ranged move for us to have.

The suggestion someone brought up about Arm of the Destroyer spreading Touch of Death and Demolish DoTs across enemies sounds like an amazing idea that would make the TP cost reasonable.

As a final thought for now, I believe that Fists of Wind could use an additional bonus that can be put to use during battle other than getting out of AoE's more quickly. Like slightly more Skill Speed or faster auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by Vensaval

As a final thought for now, I believe that Fists of Wind could use an additional bonus that can be put to use during battle other than getting out of AoE's more quickly. Like slightly more Skill Speed or faster auto attacks.

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Or, maybe, TP regen, howewer I never suffered of TP lost because of DRagoon's Invigorate

I think the GL needs to be changed as well or something that helps with having to build just to do similar DPS to other classes. A ton of people saying perfect balance needs to be changed, I don't see it. Using perfect balance after finishing a DoT rotation then using twin snakes and spamming snap punch until it wears off is the best. Depending on the mob and gear but a rough example would be 300 damage no crit and 540-600 damage on crits. Can get snap punch off 4-5 times before perfect balance wears off, I only use it on bosses and after I have full stack GL for max damage.

No to everything in the OP except #7.

MNK needs absolutely no buffs to damage-dealing ability. I will agree that a skill like One-Ilm Punch should be reworked to actually have a use.

Perhaps the TwS buff increase from 12s to 15s is also worthwhile, even if only for the similar reason that TrS is pretty much not worth using otherwise.

For the most part though, I am entirely against most of OP's list. We seem to have a battle dev team with good heads on their shoulders now, so I would suggest you give up on those changes, too. They're not gonna buff MNK and make it the only preferred DPS job at endgame, save for perhaps a singing BRD or an obligatory BLM/SMN for magic damage targets in specific content. Not to mention, DRG mains would just get laughed at if MNK got any better.

I agree with Noctis. No on everything except #7, It's kind of weird I use pretty much every single move on my list except One Ilm Punch.

GL changes , emnity dump and a ranged attack that grants GL (chi-blast?).

Otherwise I think things are fine.

I think people aren't understanding this completely. It's not a cry for more monk damage, it's for a better play experience. It is extremely frustrating to see your GL wear off while you stand around helpless because the boss is off somewhere else making tea or whatever it is they do. It's just stressful to hit a quick dps check starting from scratch when 12 seconds ago you were dpsing at full speed through no fault of your own. Then to top it off, several of our abilities are useless because of the monk rotation time constraints or just sloppy design.

I agree with 1-7, except I do use AotD for specific things, like bugs in WP (lol). I feel like it doesn't do enough damage for the amount of TP it soaks up.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

...It is extremely frustrating to see your GL wear off while you stand around helpless...

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Also agree with this completely. Even on trash mobs it's annoying to lose GL on every group of mobs or be forced to pull yourself when the rest of the party isn't ready. "Resheph, stop pulling!!" "Greased Lightening, bro, gotta go fast!"

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

I think people aren't understanding this completely. It's not a cry for more monk damage, it's for a better play experience. It is extremely frustrating to see your GL wear off while you stand around helpless because the boss is off somewhere else making tea or whatever it is they do. It's just stressful to hit a quick dps check starting from scratch when 12 seconds ago you were dpsing at full speed through no fault of your own. Then to top it off, several of our abilities are useless because of the monk rotation time constraints or just sloppy design.

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No, I understand it quite fine honestly. It's common for people to immediately think someone must not be understanding them if they don't agree, but unfortunately that's not nearly as often the case.

A MNK sustaining GL3 will outshine every DPS job in game right now. Every. Single. One. Granted the fight lasted long enough that you can ignore the wind-up to a certain degree.

The DPS a GL3 + DK + TwS + FoF MNK puts out is outstanding. It also does this with a relatively long-lasting TP pool due to low costs are on all bread & butter native skills. You can see it in the design of the job, coupled with content, that it was expected for MNKs to lose their GL3 buff every now and then due to mechanics and have to spend time winding up again.

GL3 is a massive buff to DPS, and the core problem here is that naturally every MNK player just hates losing the buff. It's something that just gets hard-coded into you from the minute you unlock GL at early levels of PGL, and only worsens as you unlock additional stacks. You're dishing out the damage and then for whatever reason you lose GL3 and feel like you're going to have a stroke. You hate it. I hate it. We all hate it. Doesn't mean there's a problem in class design, because what most people don't understand is it's not something we were ever meant to keep up full time. It is a buff that is to be kept up full time ideally.

A MNK does not need to keep up GL3 to match their dps with another equally geared DPS job. A MNK that keeps up GL3 does greater dps than another equally geared DPS job. What a MNK can do to optimize their DPS is maximize their GL3 uptime for any given content, first and foremost.

So no. GL3 does not require any changes. An extension to GL3 buff time, or a change to make it lose stacks at a time instead of fully dropping it, etc all extend a MNKs ability to keep up GL3 and in turn increases their content-specific DPS.

When balancing DPS jobs, one does not take the top performer and make it better and/or easier.

Noctis is pretty much right on the money. If they wanted us to always have GL 3, it'd be a passive, not a buff. You all are treating it like its a passive always on ability that just drops off for no reason.


No GL - Good Damage
GL 1 - Better Damage
GL 2 - Much better Damage
GL 3 - Best Damage mixed with basically 2.0 s GCD

If you're always at the top end of your DPS, then you're always dishing out your buffed damage at all times. As opposed to every other class that waits on CD's throughout parts of the fight where they lose their buffs. We just top out and stay topped out the whole fight? What kind of mentality is that? The majority of the fights we always have an XX% DMG buff going on. Losing GL3 isn't the end of the world. When bosses disappear everyone has to ramp back up to their top damage. It's not like this is something that we solely get affected by.

So all you're really asking is to make Monk more overpowered. Don't forget that not a single DPS job stays at their optimum DPS throughout an entire fight. We all deal with cooldowns and buff upkeep, along with proper DoT usage. Some of them just have it a bit easier than others(bard) but it's not like said class is staying at their current place. It's also not like the fights aren't being tuned to be more melee friendly to begin with.

Add all that together and by the end of the patches we'd just be taking bards place.

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

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Making Greased Lightning practically permanent goes beyond a quality of life change.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

I don't think anyone is asking for buffs. Just simple quality of life changes. #1 issue is the complete uselessness of one ilm punch. The only fight I can think of that it might be useful for is the boss in Haukke but due to level sync you don't even have it.

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Well yea, I think we can all agree that One Ilm Punch needs work. However, just about everything else in OPs list shouldn't be touched.

One Ilm Punch either needs work or some usefulness in content.
Shoulder Tackle can be tweaked. I'm fine either way.
Twin snakes buff extended 2-3s so you don't need skill speed to include it.

That's it. No one *likes* losing GL3, but monks are clearly based on MOMENTUM. Once we're balanced around losing GL3 sometimes, what's wrong with that design?
Monk isn't perfect, but what it needs are tweaks not redesign.
Short buffs are part of the base design.

What I would like (and this is for all classes, sort of) is more unique class utility. Some abilities that no one else has, that your party notices and values.
Mantra is nice, One Ilm Punch *could* be one if there was anywhere it was functional.
It doesn't need to destroy balance. Something small where people are like "hey, we have a monk, that makes things a little easier".
But nothing that would justify stacking monks.
We don't buff anybody else so no one is particularly happy to see us in a party. I'd like a change to THAT more than any increased buffs or decreased cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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On the flip side, monk requires GL3 because of their low base damage abilities. This is the reason they are able to compete with other DPS. They aren't going to win the day hitting between 130 and 180 potency attacks to DRG's 150-300. I would completely agree that if monk had access to higher potency attacks then GL3 wearing off would be no issue (and in need of a nerf at that) but that is not what is happening. Monks naturally don't hit as hard, and GL is the difference maker. So it is just very frustrating when it wears off through no fault of your own. No other class loses that much DPS or takes as long to get it back. I'm not saying that all classes should be the same, or that monk shouldn't have some ramp up time. I picture Monks as something of a train, takes awhile to get going but then you can't stop them... expect you can stop them by teleporting away for 4 seconds.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

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I agree with this. Monk does great damage while losing stacks multiple times throughout a boss fight. It does suck to lose all of your stacks and I feel like a longer cooldown, ranged attack could be a solution to two problems (the other being one ilm). 60-180 second cooldown (I'm not a balance dev clearly) ranged attack that resets timer but does not give a stack could give us that decision in a fight; when do I need to keep my stacks. Put haymaker in one ilms place and change one ilm to wave fist (Tactics woot). My $.02.

OIP isn't useless due to the skill being UP, it's useless due to the lack of interesting mobs who self buff and other shenanigans.

There's similar problems with abilities like Blunt Arrow that have incredibly niche situational use.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The key point is, GL3 puts MNK dps well above every other job. Thus, losing it a few times is expected in terms of balance.

The misconception going around is that MNK needs GL3 up all the time to be competent in DPS. No. A MNK with GL3 up all the time has no competition in DPS in a sustained fight.

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Your not getting what I'm trying to saying. I might not be coming across correctly. I'm not trying to focus on the damage output, those numbers can always be changed and likely will at some point. I'm talking about the fight experience. It is stressful to lose a chuck of your damage going into a burn phase and have to spend time ramping it back up. Keeping up your stacks through rotation, knowing when it hit demolish last second so it doesn't fall off but also not overwriten by your last one so you lose you stacks... that's fun. That's why I play monk, for the mini game of "what can I squeeze in my rotation". But what's not fun to me, is losing that mini game because I'm a monk and this battle says so! No one else has that. It needs tweaking.

If your looking for my opinion on how to balance it, I would do this
Replace GL3 with GL5, gain a stack every 10 levels. GL5 = GL3 buff wise. Same duration, lose 2 stacks per when it goes to wear off. It would slow monks down at the start a bit, but help them keep up pressure after non-damage phases.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Your not getting what I'm trying to saying. I might not be coming across correctly. I'm not trying to focus on the damage output, those numbers can always be changed and likely will at some point. I'm talking about the fight experience. It is stressful to lose a chuck of your damage going into a burn phase and have to spend time ramping it back up. Keeping up your stacks through rotation, knowing when it hit demolish last second so it doesn't fall off but also not overwriten by your last one so you lose you stacks... that's fun. That's why I play monk, for the mini game of "what can I squeeze in my rotation". But what's not fun to me, is losing that mini game because I'm a monk and this battle says so! No one else has that. It needs tweaking.

If your looking for my opinion on how to balance it, I would do this
Replace GL3 with GL5, gain a stack every 10 levels. GL5 = GL3 buff wise. Same duration, lose 2 stacks per when it goes to wear off. It would slow monks down at the start a bit, but help them keep up pressure after non-damage phases.

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I see. I get what you're saying, and it's basically what I mentioned earlier which is that it just sucks and feels bad to lose GL3. However, the point is to make sure you don't lose it. There are parts in content where it is unavoidable, so no point stressing there.

However, the dps isnt an issue. You agree. We've established that. The rest is opinionated, and I for one disagree entirely.

No tweak needed.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I see. I get what you're saying, and it's basically what I mentioned earlier which is that it just sucks and feels bad to lose GL3. However, the point is to make sure you don't lose it. There are parts in content where it is unavoidable, so no point stressing there.

However, the dps isnt an issue. You agree. We've established that. The rest is opinionated, and I for one disagree entirely.

No tweak needed.

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Those parts that are unavoidable only pertain to monk though and it has no counter play. It just happens. If only one class is being heavily affected by a fight, there is something off.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Those parts that are unavoidable only pertain to monk though and it has no counter play. It just happens. If only one class is being heavily affected by a fight, there is something off.

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However, their dps is balanced so that MNK is expected to lose GL3 during those, therefore nothing is off as the dev team considered that.

Remove the 2.5 GCD on Monk/Pug skills (or lower it) and have them all on their own set of cooldowns, i hate this 2.5 GCD worst mechanics i've ever dealt with, different classes need Different GCD

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

However, their dps is balanced so that MNK is expected to lose GL3 during those, therefore nothing is off as the dev team considered that.

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Again, it's not a DPS issue, it's a quality of life issue. I understand they are balanced for losing GL from time to time, that is NOT the point I am making.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Again, it's not a DPS issue, it's a quality of life issue. I understand they are balanced for losing GL from time to time, that is NOT the point I am making.

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No, I understand you're trying to present it as a quality of life issue. What I don't see is any reasonable argument as to why it can be considered a quality of life issue.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Greetings. After some discussion of monk's skills and mechanics I want to try to make a summory. I hope, that other monk_players and then developers will pay their attension to this thread:
1) Increase duration of GS up to 20+ seconds or make fading of each stack 1by1 but not all stacks
2) Increase duration of TwSn buff up to 15+ seconds
3) DEcrease duration of Perfect Balance CD till 60- seconds
4) DEcrease duration of Shoulder Tackle CD till 60- seconds
5) REmove AotD out from rotation and increase CD up to 25-30 seconds6) DEcrease duration of Howling Fist CD till 5-7 seconds and decrease damage till 130-140
7) Greatly change skill ONE IIm punch because it is a fully USELESS skill

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1. Monk DPS is currently balanced around GS not always being up. If they made it so you could always keep up GS, they would have to nerf MNK's already amazing dmg. Honestly keeping GS as a mechanic that you have to actually try to keep up at times ( primals for example) is actually fun. Removing it just makes me think you're bad and just want to dumb down the game more.

2. Again, the rotation is already easy and it's balanced around having to fit it in every other combo. Why do you want to change it? It doesn't make MNK any more fun to play it doesn't make it any more interesting. Really I don't see the point in making this suggestion at all other than you're too bad to keep it up.

3. Why? You can already put out more AOE damage than almost any other class when you use this skill, and you want to have it more often? Are you even thinking? I mean honestly... Why don't we just ask for bazookas attached to our hands so we can just oneshot everything.

4. Ok, I like to shoulder tackle, it's fun, being able to shoulder tackle would be more fun. This suggestion may actually make sense... so 1/4 so far.

5. Why...? Are you asking for the silence to be ready every 25-30 seconds? Do you really want to be silencing ADS in BC?

6. Again.. WHY!? Howling fist is great even on single target, if you decrease it's damage anymore it won't be useful at all. You have heard of a thing called Rock buster right!?? MNK has great AOE, I don't understand why you think making all these changes are necessary...

7. Yeah, maybe it will be useful in pvp, but maybe it will be used in crystal tower. Who knows... but I don't think it should be anywhere near the top of the list as far as class changes.

Maybe next time you post some suggestions you give some reasons. I could make a list of ridiculous changes to the game ( like bazooka fist weapons ), but without a reason for the suggestion, the actual act of making a suggestion is pointless unless you assume the changes are so obviously necessary there's no point in providing a reason... and there would be no need to make the suggestion in the first place, as you're assuming they already are aware of what you're talking about....

Trait for reduced Sprint CD would make them seem more Monk like.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No, I understand you're trying to present it as a quality of life issue. What I don't see is any reasonable argument as to why it can be considered a quality of life issue.

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One class is affected far more then others by being unable to attack from between 3 and 9 seconds, building frustration. That is my quality of life argument. There are few places were player skill is involved, there is nothing you can do to keep your momentum in what I view as a momentum based class. Maybe it's my fault for viewing it as momentum based in the first place, but that's just how it feels to me.

I have 2 simple examples

Titan HM.
Bombs: You have to run away from bombs, bad monks lose their stacks, good monks keep going on the bombs. Skill = GL stays up
Heart: Chances are you are going to lose your stack during the jump, but not always, I've managed to keep it a few times. But that was more luck than anything else. Anywho, You lose your stacks during a heavy DPS phase, You can then either PB and get them back within 3 abilities and start your rotation then, or build up normally. Then poof, get rocked and lose stacks again, and possibly PB depending on if you used it or not. So while your mindset is "I have X amount of time to put out as much damage as possible" through no fault of your own, the fight is knocking your GL off based on RNG. GL = Luck and RNG. (Also im not talking about the loss of DPS while your in the rock itself, that is a non-issue, it's that your delayed getting your damage out yet again in a damage intense phase)

DRG(the other melee, not comparing with ranged classes as that's an unfair comparison) does not have to deal with this. This is purely a MNK issue. While they also have buffs and debuffs to keep up, they aren't based on running through 9 abilities to keep your DPS up/above with others.

Solo play.
As we all know, most of monks abilities are positional based. While your out soloing, those abilities lose a fair chuck of their potential, meaning GL is a little more important to keep your damage up while soloing. If the mobs are even somewhat spaced apart, you will lose GL. This one seems pretty simple to me.

TLDR: For a momentum class, it grinds to a halt far quickly.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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Momentum by its definition requires a constant increase in speed. Obviously there's a stopping point since we can't just keep getting better, so that's GL3.
The primals disappear at certain points. I don't see any way we could still have any momentum waiting around for 5 seconds. So we've got to build that back up.

I hate it, and it's great like that. I feel like a fighter being forced to put my fists down for a second.
Then it's all the more sweeter and I'm at GL3 in overdrive again. It only feels like overdrive BECAUSE you cooldown so easily.

I understand that may not change how you feel.
But I like it. I don't see why it should change when the damage balance is there. People can learn to appreciate it for what it is, can't they?
I certainly do. I like building back up from nothing. I like sometimes avoiding having to do that with skill as well.

I really hope they don't change it.
The OP changes might as well remove GL3 completely and just give us a trait that increases damage by 21% and skill speed by 15%.
Even if it dropped GL one stack at a time, it'd be the same. Plus it doesn't make sense.
When you lose momentum like in a fight like that, you lose it all. Your fists are building momentum.
If you're not hitting anything you're not slowing down, you ARE at a halt.

Your definition of momentum is a bit off., it does not require a constant increase in speed. It's motion of mass and velocity.

This is the example used by Wiki (the greatest of sources!)
"For example, a heavy truck moving fast has a large momentum—it takes a large and prolonged force to get the truck up to this speed, and it takes a large and prolonged force to bring it to a stop afterwards."

There is no large or prolonged force bringing a monk to halt, it just stops.

Using your fists example, the force that is slowing down their momentum is the enemy face. If they didn't have momentum they would just halt instantly and do no damage. It's the momentum via the follow through that does the damage.

Also your real fight example doesn't work in a video game setting. Yes you are at a halt if your not punching at that moment, BUT you also don't just magically do less damage when you start back either, it doesn't take you 9 punches for you punches to hit their hardest.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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All I'm getting from all that is your issue with it is entirely due to your own perception. You begin by suggesting that it effects MNK far more than any other job. We've already established it does not hamper MNKs ability to perform. Please tell me how else it effects the job more than any other, because I don't see it.

What it appears to effect, based on your posts, is your vision of how MNK should be played. Unfortunately, that vision may not be the vision the dev team had when designing it, or a vision you share with fellow MNK players.

It is not a quality of life issue. It is a matter of preference. Unfortunately, the suggested fixes will in fact effect the balance that is already set and make MNK over-powered.

To actually answer your particular points regarding the various DPS jobs, yes... some fights like Titan introduce RNG elements into MNK's ability to DPS. Such mechanics may lead to MNK, a job otherwise not built with RNG mechanics within its rotations, having its DPS effected by RNG.

BLM DPS is RNG based. BRD DPS is RNG based. DPS jobs are no strangers to a bit of RNG as it is. Overall, the effect is not monumental.

As for DRG and SMN.

SMN has a long windup and due to it being DoT based and pet-based, DPS in general is greatly favoring sustained battles over burst ability.

DRG is a job without RNG. It is easiest to compare to MNK, yes. Ok, DRG will not suffer big drop from their top DPS mode due to losing buffs due to RNG either. However, on the flipside, a DRG going balls to the wall with DPS and playing absolutely perfect will lose in DPS to a MNK that just sits on the same target's flank and hits DRK > TwS > Snap Punch over and over again doing absolutely nothing else. The difference in the DPS ceiling between MNK and DRG is staggering. So much so, that DRG has some buffs coming in 2.1. It still won't compare to MNK though, as the devs likely consider their ability to increase BRD DPS as well.

This is why I'm saying that MNK isn't actually being effected more than DRG. DRG simply comes with reliable, consistent ST DPS. MNK, over the course of the same fight will have its highs and lows based on GL stacks, etc, but will still avg out at least as good as that DRG. In fact, as I've suggested before, MNKs currently perform far better than DRGs even when they drop their stacks a few times.

I would like to see:
1. like previously stated GL to lose 1 stack at a time from 3-2-1 instead of from 3-0.
2. Have Fist of Fire give 10% damage increase instead of 5% like it did in previous test phrase.

For me I feel that Mnk is well balance with regards to the other skills.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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You're right that momentum does not have to include acceleration. I just used that in relation to the class.

In my fists example, momentum cannot be used literally. Otherwise, monks would be doing *less* damage over time cause they would be slowing down.
Momentum I'm using is in terms of fighting momentum. You fight, you build a rhythm and you get more into it thus you do more damage.

You stop for a little while, you lose all of that. You've got to build it back.
This makes sense to me. It *feels* right.
And that's what we're talking about right? Feelings. Cause we can all agree the damage is there.
Also, yes I think in a real fight that your punches at the start hit softer than your follow through punches.
Maybe it's not always 9 like it is for the monk, but the general concept is there.

I also think it makes more sense that dragoons don't suffer this.
That's because they're supposed to be dragon fighters. They should be more accustomed to waiting to get in range to attack.
It's more natural for them to face an unreachable enemies.

EDIT
There are drawbacks for every class. BLMs can't move a step without a dps loss unless a proc is up.
I made monk my main because of that (and because BLM was a bit too simple).
What I DIDN'T do is demand the devs change BLM to cast on the move cause it was frustrated being planted or losing a lot of damage.
Why? Because I understood that BLMs were balanced around that.
Balace-wise, they hit like a truck so some interruptions balance it out.
Design-wise, they require full concentration to summon that power....to hit like a truck.

I can appreciate that. Sometimes I still play it, but it's not the same as my monk.
All classes have their frustration. If you really love this class, you should appreciate it's weaknesses as well.
Short term buffs are clearly base class design.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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Again, for the last time, The DPS output isn't the issue, it is the hard halt to rotation through no fault of the players and nothing skill can overcome. It is not a tide, a give and take, a flow of battle. It is a ramp up, then a sudden cut off. It's climbing a mountain, then teleporting down.

Let's turn this around a bit. In a fight where you can keep GL up the while time, isn't that a bit unfair to other DPS? The monk will outperform them. On the other hand, no fight should be made and them go "oh the monk will keep GL... lets throw a vanish in there to wipe it off" That's lazy class design.

I guess what it boils down to is that the game is removing my GL, It's not falling off because I screwed up somewhere, It's off because the game says so via RNG or fight mechanics. That leads to more pressure during fights to get it back up, a harder time soloing, a harder time during trash portions of dungeons (I know trash doesn't matter but time = money and all that jazz). I think that is sloppy and can be improved. I'm not sure how exactly. There are several ideas, some would result in monk being OP, others are at least on the right track.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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And again, it's a matter of your personal perception. As long as the DPS balance is there, there's really no need for them to break a working design and fix it for something so subjective.

I don't get why the mechanic is causing you so much stress/pressure but ultimately I don't see anything wrong with how GL works right now.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

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I like the idea of rhythm, and I 100% agree with alot of what you said there. There is a feel too it, and GL is like finding your stride in a fight. I 100% agree with that

Which is why when the enemy gets a shield around it for 3 seconds and you lose your GL that it doesn't feel right to me.

It's like a dance almost, you get into the groove then someone cuts the music. It's annoying and yea you will spend a few seconds getting back into the groove of the track again once it starts. But atleast for me I wouldn't just stop and stand there like I was at attention, it would be a slow down, a shift to a small shuffle while I waited.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

And again, it's a matter of your personal perception. As long as the DPS balance is there, there's really no need for them to break a working design and fix it for something so subjective.

I don't get why the mechanic is causing you so much stress/pressure but ultimately I don't see anything wrong with how GL works right now.

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Because the balance won't always be there. There will be fights were you can keep GL up all the time, and there will be fights when it will be extremely hard to keep up. That is part of the reason I would like to see this adjusted in the future.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

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That's all just personal preference though. Not "lazy design".
You don't attack Garuda while she's doing her wind attack. You hide behind a rock because the game made you.
Is that lazy design? Because you couldn't keep attacking?

You lost GL3 while hiding. What's the difference? The boss just said they were better than you. If you tried to keep your flow of battle, you'd die in one shot. Just accept it. There's no flow if you're hiding behind a rock or waiting to be geocrushed etc.
So you start getting back into the flow after with the persistence of a monk!

Don't blame the design just cause you feel frustrated and can't appreciate it.
I think a sudden drop off is appropriate. It's not always about skill to keep it up. Sometimes there's nothing you can do.
That's life, right? Well, virtual life. We have to hide behind a rock sometimes when we'd rather be bashing Garuda's face in. That's virtual life too.

They may improve the base design of the monk in future patches. But first they need to build on what they have so the monk role has a chance to find its place.
Then they can improve on the base to really bring out the monk job in relation to other classes.
What we've got is what we have to go on. So I hope you all stop trying to make it something it isn't just because you can't appreciate what it is.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Because the balance won't always be there. There will be fights were you can keep GL up all the time, and there will be fights when it will be extremely hard to keep up. That is part of the reason I would like to see this adjusted in the future.

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Assumptions.

SE devs designed the jobs and balanced them. SE devs designed the content. They are going to continue to do so. Up to even the most recent communications from SE that involved upcoming adjustments to various jobs, they mention tweaking content so that melee DPS are less punished.

They design content with all jobs in mind, or at least strive to. No real issue currently that hasn't been addressed.