Does Anyone Think Crafting is Too Slow?

I don't mind the slowness. The fact that there's nothing fun about it is a deal breaker though. They're streamlining it but not adding any actual gameplay in it is what really bothers me. Hey SE how about some games in my game? K' thnx bye.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

personal opinion. I like the mini games.

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What do you like about them?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I didn't play re gather change, but the motions look ok to me. Very fluid imo.

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Yes, they are very fluid but they were sped up in a previous patch. It suddenly felt like watching while pressing the Fast Forward button. ^^

But I haven't played DoL in a while. Maybe I should try it again tonight and see if it just feels normal now.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I don't mind the slowness. The fact that there's nothing fun about it is a deal breaker though. They're streamlining it but not adding any actual gameplay in it is what really bothers me. Hey SE how about some games in my game? K' thnx bye.

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from what I read the only fix is streamlining the recipies to have lesser ingredients. Like kinda how ffxi was a tad. in ffxiv I've noticed like in carp, you can syth something to the lowest point like woodchips from logs. They might take those things out to simplier format like log >> lumber>> xlumber +x arrowheads +flectings = arrows instead of branches crafted down to shafts then crafted up to make arrows.

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Originally Posted by Commat

What do you like about them?

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they are interactive instead of pressing mats and watching the character craft. I found that to be dull in ffxi and never took a craft higher then 40 (bonecraft). I can't sit and watch a game (minus cs) I need to be doing something. Which is why I really don;t wanna see Auto attack making a comback if it will end up similar to ffxi. The more activly I can play a game ther better for me.

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Originally Posted by Commat

What do you like about them?

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She's trolling. I personally don't hate the mini games themselves, but their mechanics seem to be made as an afterthought, not as a core mechanic and even less as a staple activity of the game. Doing them once is interesting, doing them twice is okay, thrice will pass, but doing them a thousand times trying to level one of the disciplines will cause a player to quit. It could perhaps be acceptable to do them once or twice per week.

Every idea of enjoyment related to crafting and gathering was gone for me the second day of beta. I could have trained my dog to craft and gather for me, had it thumbs to manipulate the gamepad, and i can't believe SE estimated our average intelligence to be low enough to be perpetually entertained by such mini games.

Chocobo Raising in FF7 was a fun mini game. Triple Triad in FF8 was another. Treasure hunting in FF9. Blitzball in FF10. Square has proven it can make entertaining mini games, so why do they think we like spamming the same exact craft a hundred times per day?

Digressing & Ranting mode: ON

Also, i think "leveling crafts" for the sake of it (grinding) is wrong, however it's also true that you can't keep up your DOH and DOL at the same level of your Disciplines Of War without grinding. I don't think a blacksmith would make a thousand hammers he doesn't need and can't sell just for training. Why? Because he doesn't have that many materials (and time) to waste and because training doesn't work that way. Crafting an item should give you experience points only the first few times you craft it and you should be able to level your crafting discipline at the same speed of your fighting class just by making the items you and your friends need. Crafting excellence and exclusiveness should be only determined by the difficulty of finding or processing materials, not by the amount of grinding someone does or by how advanced their grinding bots are. Furthermore, i shouldn't be able to get twenty marmot pelts ready for crafting when i'm not looking for them. Only someone with the tanning tools should be able to do so, for example (one would think that amidst all the low res cartoony environments and ugly characters WoW has people would see that it's actually such mechanics that made it big...)

Digressing & Ranting mode: OFF

Then again, i don't see SE ever changing the crafting mechanics in design, so maybe, if we're lucky, they'll speed it up or remove the progress bar.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

they are interactive instead of pressing mats and watching the character craft. I found that to be dull in ffxi and never took a craft higher then 40 (bonecraft). I can't sit and watch a game (minus cs) I need to be doing something. Which is why I really don;t wanna see Auto attack making a comback if it will end up similar to ffxi. The more activly I can play a game ther better for me.

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I'd like them too IF THEY WERE MINGAMES. They could so easily make it into something that requires skill by making it timing based "hit A when the bar is in the sweet spot" or just do whatever with them to make them feel like you're playing a GAME. Calling them minigames as they are is an insult to minigames everywhere. They don't require skill nor collecting materials from hard to kill/find mobs and there's nothing deep you need to know about how the system works and the result is always just as random.

I expect better quality from a company that made chocobo hot and cold minigame, triple triad, tetra master, all of the minigames in Final Fantasy Fables, mysterious dungeon card battle, FFX blitzball, FFX chocobo racing, IX sword fight QTE the list is almost endless.

I see indie devs create interesting simple minigames daily. I cannot understand how they decided THIS is better than have something entertaining.

Ideally ofcourse I'd like to see all the crafting jobs to have different gameplay. Is that really too much to ask from a company like SE? I don't think it is. People have just gotten used to how little content modern titles tend to have these days.

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Originally Posted by Kirith

Then again, i don't see SE ever changing the crafting mechanics in design, so maybe, if we're lucky, they'll speed it up or remove the progress bar.

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I believe in my heart that one day i will log on and the current mini games will be replaced with Angry Mog. Were i will shoot Moogles at Tonberrys for SP and crafted goods.

P.S. Kilta is many things but never a troll.

You guys have a very limited view on what a mini game is. the crafting are mini games. You pick a syth and there is a 1 in 3 change of a success or fail. Also based on what you do effects that item in a way. Like increasing the quality from the given base may result in an HQ. Personly speaking I was never fond of blitz ball. I didn't write SE a letter about it either. "Nor of various other mini games I disliked. The mini games are pefect tbh with how mmo work. When you have time effected action based button presses like the "sweet spot idea" it becomes hard for those who have nasty lag. (which i found to be a slight issue with the gathering mini games.)

Ypu guys really need to factor in mmo and lag when thinking of suggestions.


Also just because I like the mini games don't mean I'm trolling. Just because my insight on others is different don't mean i'm trolling either.

@ seif, most of what you stated had a random factor to it. Mini games do not need to have a deeper meaning either... That is kinda what I mean be thinking to much.

Anyway I'm not getting used to how limiting modern games are getting, nor have i really enjoyed it. I mostly been going after titles with more open world (the elder scrolls or fable) instead of games like dragon age where I can beat in a day or 2.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

@ seif, most of what you stated had a random factor to it. Mini games do not need to have a deeper meaning either... That is kinda what I mean be thinking to much.

Anyway I'm not getting used to how limiting modern games are getting, nor have i really enjoyed it. I mostly been going after titles with more open world (the elder scrolls or fable) instead of games like dragon age where I can beat in a day or 2.

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Not to get off track but you are so right. Dragon age was such a letdown. IGN told me for years that it was going to be the new baldur's gate, it was not...

It was a 20 hour friend that left after a mediocre weekend of going to a bunch of predictable places.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I love how people pull that. " get stuff to x number theb talk" Like my opinion is going to change.. It isn't dude I've been gaming for a long time. When you think about it, it does seem tedious. Try to have fun with it. This is hpw I make crafting fun, I try tp improve the quailty of the crafts I'm doing. Trying to see how high I can get it before failing or succeding. I also try to improve my overal craftinf by instead of just getting a syth right to having it succed.
There are infact 3 types of end results per syth. There is the doing it, succeding it, or failing. I do not just spam the same syth I try to use them in combination to get more successes then just crafting.

You guys pull the tedious card to much for your personal choices.

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As he said get a craft to R30 then give an opinion, Yeah crafting was fun as hell when i did 8-10 synths per level at level 8 and ranked up. But at 30+ you need something like 2-300 synths per level, yes it does become very tedious. Crafting however just like endgame is usually not for everyone. Things should not be dumbed down or eased up, a R50 crafter should be the cream of the crop for the simple fact they put the time and effort into finishing something that was not meant to be easy for the everyday person.

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Originally Posted by Commat

Not to get off track but you are so right. Dragon age was such a letdown. IGN told me for years that it was going to be the new baldur's gate, it was not...

It was a 20 hour friend that left after a mediocre weekend of going to a bunch of predictable places.

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tbh I didn't like baulders gate styled games.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

As he said get a craft to R30 then give an opinion, Yeah crafting was fun as hell when i did 8-10 synths per level at level 8 and ranked up. But at 30+ you need something like 2-300 synths per level, yes it does become very tedious. Crafting however just like endgame is usually not for everyone. Things should not be dumbed down or eased up, a R50 crafter should be the cream of the crop for the simple fact they put the time and effort into finishing something that was not meant to be easy for the everyday person.

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sorry but my opinion isn't gonna change no matter if i'm 10 30 or max. Get over it. please. I do not play games like you guys do and for different reasons. Which is why I like ffxiv and you do not.

PS one of my fave things about crafting are the animations. I started to laugh my butt off every time My lalafell did a rabid crp syth. I though it was fully to watch.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

sorry but my opinion isn't gonna change no matter if i'm 10 30 or max. Get over it. please. I do not play games like you guys do and for different reasons. Which is why I like ffxiv and you do not.

PS one of my fave things about crafting are the animations. I started to laugh my butt off every time My lalafell did a rabid crp syth. I though it was fully to watch.

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Really you like FFXIV and I do not huh... Funny that's why I have 2 DOL classes to 25, 5 Crafts Over 25, 1 Craft near 35, and all jobs over 20, Conj at 47, Glad at 35... But yeah I don't like the game right. Your and idiot Kilta, you come on here and for all your posts you either don't even play the game anymore or you choose to hide your character behind some bogus disclaimer. You have 2500 posts on a game you know absolutely nothing about, or have obviously played so little that you could not possibly have any coherent conception of what most of us are upset about. Many of us are here because we loved XI, we want XIV to succeed, and by using most of our esteemed and fairly deep rooted physical playing knowledge of the game, we are trying to get SE to properly prioritize said issues with the game. So once again stop posting invalidated crap to which you obviously know nothing about. Either put up or shut up, either way I don't give a damn what you say, type, or think.

It take time, because they not want all to be R50 easy, but the problem is that they shouldn't make it so easy-boring mini-game like this. They should make it more challenge so that you won't feel so tedious.

i'm still for an automated animation going on while crafting to speed up the craft process itself.
press standart/rapid/bold and get an instant reaction, not press s/r/b, wait for animation to finish and get a result.

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Originally Posted by rekijitsu

The title pretty much says it all... I have low level crafting, and I've spent the whole day catching up Carpentry and other crafts, and while it's someone easy to do with the weapon grips, it's *very* slow, and *very* redundant. I like the emphasis on crafting in this game, and realize there are only 50 levels of it, but it only gets worse as time goes on...

I just feel like to get crafts up to be useful for your fighting disciplines, you spend 100x more time to work on the crafts themselves than your main fighting discipline. I hate to make the game more casual, and like the difficulty, but does anyone think the war/magic disciplines level way too fast and the the hand/land ones way too slow?

I think the game would be much better if these two speeds were reversed, though I know some crafters enjoy it, the majority who just want a few crafts for them to be useful for your war/magic disciplines find it to just be an incessant grind.

I usually do the leves for them, this helps a *little*, but I think the rate at which war/magic levels with leves is waaaayyy faster than crafting leves.

Also, the recipes themselves are a bit silly. Fish glue is used in things like one of the first bows you can make... Isn't it a bit weird how they've designed it?

I think it might make sense to award a great deal more skill points based on what is being crafted. Maybe leave it as-is for things like weapon grips which are components, but actual equippable/usable items are usually harder to make and take more time to do so, so they should award more SP.

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Crafting in this game is terrible.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Still isn't slow in my book with the animations. It feels realistic in a sence. I like watching my lalafell work. I got happy I somehow hq'ed 2 of my maple lumber syths in a row :P And the animation it does.

I think personally ppl dislike it because it isn't instant like WoW or ffxi or (instert mmo here) I like feeling I'm actually doing something. I personally think this is a personal grievence and if ppl dislike it can easily just not do it.

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Yah but your low level and/or dont play, so you dont know what it like higher level when you need to chor out 500 synths and 80% of your time is spendwatching dumbass animations and hitting standard over n over because the synth is just too easy but you dont want to risk oneshotting it and losing it.

Crafting is as "slow" as it needs to avoid overcrowding of the market. To people that normally enjoy crafting, this system is one of the best in the MMO genre and involves some very clever pieces like the interdipendent skills.

The fact is simple, crafting is not for everyone, and *should not* be for everyone. If everyone crafts, there won't be a market. It's that simple.

if you want to craft quickly, there is a solution for you: It's called Hasty Hand.

It allows you to "all or nothing" every craft completely skipping the minigame at the expense of a lower SP rate (about half). Of course, if you have enough money for materials (and every self-respecting crafter should have tons), this still means that you're going to skillup MUCH faster than by doing it the normal way, considering that you get half the SP in 1/10 of the time.
Funny that most people that bash crafting in this game don't even know what it does, even more funny since you get it as early as level 15, but after all criticizing what one doesn't even know is a common occurrence in this game.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Crafting is as "slow" as it needs to avoid overcrowding of the market. To people that normally enjoy crafting, this system is one of the best in the MMO genre and involves some very clever pieces like the interdipendent skills.

The fact is simple, crafting is not for everyone, and *should not* be for everyone. If everyone crafts, there won't be a market. It's that simple.

if you want to craft quickly, there is a solution for you: It's called Hasty Hand.

It allows you to "all or nothing" every craft completely skipping the minigame at the expense of a lower SP rate (about half). Of course, if you have enough money for materials (and every self-respecting crafter should have tons), this still means that you're going to skillup MUCH faster than by doing it the normal way, considering that you get half the SP in 1/10 of the time.
Funny that most people that bash crafting in this game don't even know what it does, even more funny since you get it as early as level 15, but after all criticizing what one doesn't even know is a common occurrence in this game.

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fact is the market will be dominated with alot of 50 crafters anyhow wen the new players start so the eco is pretty much dead anyhow or one sided

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Originally Posted by sketch

fact is the market will be dominated with alot of 50 crafters anyhow wen the new players start so the eco is pretty much dead anyhow or one sided

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That must be why as a level 36 armorer I can easily turn an abundant profit (hell, I can even as a level 25 Leather, mind you)?

Level 50 crafters make level 50 stuff. They have no reason to make lower level equipment that sells for less. With the fact that this game encourages leveling up multiple classes there is and there always will be demand for lower level equipment.
If you think that "the economy is dead" or one sided, then you simply lack the ability to assess what sells and what doesn't, which is a requisite to thriving in any economy. Probably crafting isn't for you.

Anyway, the fact still stands. Want to craft faster? you can. You only need to know your basic abilities. Playing the game instead of the forums might help in that.

Funny thing is Yoshida is trying to make crafting more interactive and considering to remove the gauge, oh my... i wonder why? Could it be because crafting process is tedious and boring, could it be slow? hm... HMMMMMMM...

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Funny thing is Yoshida is trying to make crafting more interactive and considering to remove the gauge, oh my... i wonder why? Could it be because crafting process is tedious and boring, could it be slow? hm... HMMMMMMM...

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Ahem, yoshida is considering to remove the gauge only for crafts much under your level, basically having everyone using hasty hand automatically. 'cause you know, some people can't really understand how things work unless you slap it in their face, looks like.

if you think yoshida will turn FFXIV's crafting into a press one key and pray system, you are most definitely setting yourself up for disappointment.

I'm seriously amused by the fact that some people think that a system that includes absolutely no involvement (press one key and pray, then press the same key and pray for X million times) would be less tedious than one that at the very least involves a degree of strategy and active thinking.
But of course those would never admit the only true issue. That they want level 50 and profits to be handed to them (without even understanding that it would actually remove any profitability to the crafter game, the easier it is, the less it's profitable).

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Ahem, yoshida is considering to remove the gauge only for crafts much under your level, basically having everyone using hasty hand automatically. 'cause you know, some people can't really understand how things work unless you slap it in their face, looks like.

if you think yoshida will turn FFXIV's crafting into a press one key and pray system, you are most definitely setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Nope, never liked XI's crafting system either, i like the current system if i wants to HQ stuff, it gave me an illusion of control, although it's still pretty random. But, it is a fact that current 'minigame' isnt interactive and that (IMO) needs to change.

Why punish players just to 'slow' down the amount of crafters? Everything should be fun and people get to choose which fun things they want to do.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Why punish players just to 'slow' down the amount of crafters? Everything should be fun and people get to choose which fun things they want to do.

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Punish? If you don't enjoy crafting and still do it it isn't the system that's punishing you. You're whipping yourself all on your own. There are other ways to make a profit in this game, and afford the services of crafters easily if you don't enjoy it. The monetary relationship between crafters and non-crafters is actually very balanced in this game.

To have a working economy the amount of crafters needs to be limited. If crafting becomes for everyone, supply ends up heavily outweighting demand and crafting stops being profitable at all. Congratulations. You just created an actually dead market with an exaggerated oversupply that will never be purchased.

In any case, there's *no way* to create a crafting that's for everyone. No matter how fun and tactical the minigame is (and actually FFXIV's is one of the most fun in the market).
No minigame, no matter how clever, can survive the 1000th time it's performed, fun-wise, for most people. Repeatitiveness always comes into the picture. There's no way to avoid it. Even having no minigame at all can't escape from this simple rule (and is actually worse, since it's much more repeatitive).
People, for instance, praised a lot Vanguard's crafting minigame. That's the ones that didn't actually craft much, because that (very well designed) minigame becomes a serious chore (even more than FFXIV's) after the 1000th time you do it.
Crafting is a repeatitive process by definition. There is no escaping that.

I think this one is much like other systems in Final Fantasy XIV - there are solid foundations in place, but the player base have not been equipped with enough information to comprehend and enjoy. I understand how the system could appear as slow to someone disinterested in the mechanics of crafting, but disagree with speed changing on the grounds that the pace is relatively on par with solo fighting. Group-based crafting is imminent and will change this somewhat...

Once people further understand each step in the crafting process, there will be less "It's broken, boring and slow" and more emphasis on producing higher quality items and increasing crafting efficiency.

Someone commented on just spamming enter on standard synthesis. If this is one's approach to synthesis then they are doomed to begin with. I don't want to jump on the "Don't play it then" bandwagon, but there is more depth to crafting than most are implying, and I don't believe the process should be streamlined for the sake of players who are attention deficit.

To the comments of adding time-based reactions and command input - isn't this going to end up the same? I personally think the appeal would also soon wear off and it would become tedious to have to pay further attention to hitting the same "Sweet Spot" each time.

Perhaps a solution (based on commentary) is to make everyone's crafting tools glowing, summon a dragon from the crystal each successful Standard Synthesis and introduce a Dance Dance Revolution style reactive prompt in which several keypresses must be entered simultaneously to fill the "void" between actions. Also - upon each successful synthesis a moogle should appear and /slap you from behind (to an appropriate victory theme).

Crafting is not and should not be instant gratification. Crafting is also not a side-venture. It is a primary component of this game, and can be a rewarding experience to players who take the time to learn and understand it, and subsequently begin to manipulate the market.

Repetitive and mindless are seperate things, XIV's crafting is both of these. Don't confuse repetitive for being the reason it isn't fun when you have no need to look at the screen to do any of it, the entire system is asking for players to turn to botting. I could have r50 in any craft I wanted without realising what I'm doing ingame providing I have materials. DoL is also one of the classes that turns absolutely mindless with no dynamics the higher it gets, EVERYTHING is 1 of 2 spots.

EDIT: If you are doing anything other than spamming enter on standard you are setting yourself up to take a disproportionately long time to gain ranks compared to some who was, and is now making better items than you and gaining more guild marks.

I am fine with repetitive-ness if its fun, meaning when i get sick of it, i will take a break, but.. i will miss it and will do it again after a while. All i know is most of my r50s crafter friends always ends up saying "Thanks God its done" after they hit r50 and never looked back, There are of course others that started to rank up another craft but that is only because there are nothing to do ingame right now that is worth doing other than crafting.

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

an idea i had, was that they could make crafting have a 2nd optional mini game per craft, that is more skill based, and the difficulty of the skill based game is multiplied for higher level items. Like imagine if some npc taught you to visualize weaving as tetris. then you could choose to visualize, and the stuff 10 levels ahead would be like super fast tetris. Not saying they should jack tetris, but if they have mini games as an entertaining option, that could work.

The problem with skill based mini games in crafting, is that not everyone has skills, some one may want to be an armorer, but suck at whatever skill based game it has. The system right now is a combination of knowledge and random elements.

I think the issue they keep running into, in this and even in battle, is some people want the systems to be entertaining and skill based, and some people just want to get through with it, building the system for one alienates the other. They need to start adopting a dual progression system, where the player can choose style of play. Just like many ffs have the option for wait or active battle, or how ffxii had the option to micromanage if you wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

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you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I wonder why people are defending something that they willingly admit is boring as hell? The whole point of playing a game is to be entertained right? I have a full-time job already I don't need one in a game.

Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous. Crafting requires the knowledge of elements, astrology and time of the week. In xiv however no thinking whatsoever is needed. The whole thing is disguised as a game that makes anyone "playing" it feel like a drooling retard.

Watching the clouds go by feels more interactive than what XIV calls gameplay.

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I played XI since launch and strongly disagree that the system required more in research and adventure. There are plenty of crafting materials in XIV that take some adventuring to obtain and research is again a necessity.

One thing that differs (which I have commented on elsewhere in forums) is that FFXI used to give you in-game clues about what to craft at your current rank etc and it would be nice for XIV to adopt a little of this and bring more info into the game itself. I'd prefer to remain in Eorzea to obtain information than having to alt-tab to a third party site with forced popup advertising. This would increase the level of "Immersion" that everyone keeps talking about.

SE need to understand the power of information. It is the MOST valuable commodity in our human (and Eorzean) existence.

Oh...and any MMO is a full time job if you want to maximise your return. It is not a lucrative enough expedition otherwise...

...and further on information - I truly believe there would be less people upset with the current crafting setup if they understood more about how the system works.

It was a little while before people discovered the directional link to elements in XI's crafting system. There are probably unknown systems of a similar nature already in place for XIV.

SE are kinda damned either way though...they cannot release too much information about crafting for fear of spoil, and they cannot afford to have too many people in the dark about what actually affects crafting.

Whilst the forums are a great step toward understanding their player base, others are right in the suggestion that empowering the community with a voice can enable a distortion of direction based on the opinions of only those who bother to speak up. I think in-game polling would be nice. Maybe even a mandatory quick feedback poll on the last update each time one installs a new update so that all who play are further encouraged to influence the game, and that influence is closer to what the core community (the people who are actually playing the game and not stubbornly sneering from the sidelines after rage quitting or something) truly desire from this new realm.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you are smoking crack, ffxi crafting is not entertaining, and requires a trip to a distant AH. if you want to bring that up you can say that this game requires you to go mine in distant caves with agro monsters to get scale bugs, or kill hungry wolves to get buffalo skins. Knowledge of what element is what direction is not an entertaining facet of crafting, im sorry. Just by the definition of interaction, ffxiv is more interactive, more input of the user that has an effect on the outcome is interactivity, as far as planning, equipping the right gear, and skills to deal with whatever type of craft you are doing, and the results you are trying to get, is way more strategic/knowlege based than letting random do it for you.

You may like ffxi crafting system, but saying it requires more knowlege, is more interactive, or is more fun collecting materials is complete bullshit, and i think you know this.

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Even XI crafting is more fun because collecting materials requires research and a trip to a distant farming location that might be dangerous.

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I guess I should clear that up a bit.
Personally I think crafting in any MMO including XI is horrible. Because it has always been horrible I don't think it should be given a free pass as something that doesn't have to be fun.

Yes I do like crafting in XI more than in XIV but frankly this just means I hate it a bit less.

I don't agree at all that because there is lag SE shouldn't consider adding gameplay to crafting. There are plenty of MMO's out there that require twitch-precision gameplay for good teamwork. Crafting is always a solo activity so that makes it even easier to be made into a lag-free experience.

In general I think the MMO crowd is willing to put up with significantly lower standards than single player games have.
I was pulled into the world of XI because the story makes it feel at times just like a single player game with a real story with a beginning and an ending. When I've looked around for something similar after XI all the games seem like just grind-treadmills with no goal to work towards. When I ask my MMO playing friends if their games have a story with an end that's achievable they just look at me like I'm trying to ask if aliens exist.

This is partly the reason why I'm worried that SE is looking so hard at other MMOs as an example to work towards. They used to be the company that paved the way for something other developers couldn't even dream of.

I understand what you're saying Seif and Vana'diel had a story that pulled me in too.

I'm gonna have to pull a bit of a defeatist card on this one though and say:

Unfortunately we live in a world of ever-decreasing attention spans, where linear thought is dominant.


SE have to make games for babies now because our planet's governance has been stupefying the whole damned population!

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Here is an overall suggestion, re-evaluate how you play games. Instead over over thinking the game try to have fun with it. You guys do not have to spam the same stuff like standered synth or the 1 button. Nor is the game forcing it on you. That is yalls choice. I've been playing this game for a couple weeks and never spamed really.

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Completely disagree. 95% of the time you don't need Bold Synth, and I honestly see no purpose in Rapid. Changing up standard synth when it is clearly the best choice for crafting anything non-HQ doesn't make it more dynamic. What makes it dynamic is if the game *forces* you to use the other two in certain situations. Personally, I would like to see White correspond with Standard, Yellow with Rapid, and Red with Bold, giving you something to "look for" and actually give you a choice between Rapid or Standard when its Yellow, or Bold or Standard when it's Red.

Even then though, the animations are slow, and the realism card doesn't fit here because even with the animations as they are, they are too fast compared to real life. You may as well cut down the tedium, it is *not* fun sitting there watching the same thing happen over and over.

I'm glad to see in some cases, the element becomes unstable. This usually only happens if you're leveling off of things too high though. I can see the minigame being fun if you're crafting something equippable, making it a bit exciting but it's just tedious doing it for everything.

One way I see it, is for crafting ingredients for other synths, make the animations happen once, and without a minigame. The minigame is boring when you're doing it all the time, and should really only happen when making an end product. But hey, we have to design the game around preventing botting of course!

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Yes, it can be quite risky. ^^;
However, risk increases as you near completion. So if you're trying to increase the quality score in hopes of getting an HQ item it can actually be better to start off your synth with Bold synthesis and then shift to Standard if necessary as you progress.



It depends.

If I'm grinding just to level up a skill, then it's basically tedious and I wish it would go a bit faster. Right now, having a TV or second computer for web surfing nearby is great for times like this.

If I'm actually trying to make something, then it's just right. ^^

But if SE decides to speed it up, I just hope they don't simply keep the same actions and speed them up the way they did with DoL classes. It's now a bit comical to watch.

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I pretty much agree with this. I like the mini-game if it were for a really important item... but crafting just to get it up should be faster and more streamlined. As it stands, keeping your crafts on par with your War/Magic classes is pretty much impossible unless you only spend 10% of your online time actually fighting things.

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Originally Posted by Commat

I think the time investment is irrelevant.

The underlining problem is that the mini games are awful.

Fun is fun no matter how long it takes. Boring is boring the first time and every time after.

Currently enjoyment in MMO's come from advancement. One day it will come from activity. It used to be that way, i remember it, i swear.

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I would also be okay with it if they found a way to make it fun, but this is Square Enix and Crafting in MMOs we're talking about. Even the best developers in the world haven't made Crafting an enjoyable experience, and really should be treated as something to do on the side, not a chore to keep it on par with your current War/Magic classes to keep the crafts relevant for your use.

At least in old school World of Warcraft, for example, you *could* reasonably keep your crafts up, and what you made *did* come in handy. Nowadays what you craft is useless in that game while leveling, but in FFXIV that is not the case. Since it isn't, I sure would like to be able to use what I'm crafting without spending 90% of my online game time crafting and only 10% doing what I like.

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Originally Posted by rekijitsu

I would also be okay with it if they found a way to make it fun, but this is Square Enix and Crafting in MMOs we're talking about. Even the best developers in the world haven't made Crafting an enjoyable experience, and really should be treated as something to do on the side, not a chore to keep it on par with your current War/Magic classes to keep the crafts relevant for your use.

At least in old school World of Warcraft, for example, you *could* reasonably keep your crafts up, and what you made *did* come in handy. Nowadays what you craft is useless in that game while leveling, but in FFXIV that is not the case. Since it isn't, I sure would like to be able to use what I'm crafting without spending 90% of my online game time crafting and only 10% doing what I like.

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your enjoyment isnt the same thing others will enjoy
so your 90% crafting and 10% of what you like, could in many others eytes be 10% fighting and 90% what they like

there is a balance in there and alot of people dont realize that crafting isnt as hard as they make it out to be

the animations will probly be sped up more, but i very much doubt the entire process will ever be fully streamlined and "super easy mode" like some people expect it to be