It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

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02-21-2015, 04:53 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty

I still don't see how 3-6 months down the road, if people complete a nerfed version, how it affects you. Is your accomplishment diminished? Again, I don't even want this mode, but I don't see how it affects anything other then someone's ego. XI dumbed down content to the point of it being solely for the story, no one cared except for the few "omg I had to endure through this, so do you!".

It is not about me, it is about the principle of the matter and overall game design. Just because it becomes old content, it shouldn't take it to the point that you can slam your head on the keyboard and still win. And the reason XI's content was more simplified is because the only people who play are end game players and they needed a solution for newcomers to make their way to 99. Even then, the low to mid content still provide a challenge for those not 99. This is not the case for ARR where things like Duty Finder and Roulettes exist. I don't believe in simplifying a raid to the extreme. Is it fine to tone down some aspects while keeping the challenge in tact? Sure for casual players. What the OP is asking for is in fact a mode where absolutely no effort is needed for the story, which in itself is a reward. As I said, learn the fight and beat it legitimately, SE owes you nothing in regards to this.
02-21-2015, 04:57 AM
Magis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty

I still don't see how 3-6 months down the road, if people complete a nerfed version, how it affects you. Is your accomplishment diminished? Again, I don't even want this mode, but I don't see how it affects anything other then someone's ego. XI dumbed down content to the point of it being solely for the story, no one cared except for the few "omg I had to endure through this, so do you!".

Wasn't the expansion that did this (Abyssea) basically deemed as "what killed FFXI"? There was also a mass migration from the game after it launched according to MMOCharts. Also from what I've read, the expansion was to convince players to join FFXIV 1.0, giving them one last "hurrah", but then realized they screwed up so badly with 1.0 that they had to keep adding content to the MMO that didn't do bad.

Heck even Tanaka who designed Abyssea called it a mistake lol.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.htm...16&storypage=1
02-21-2015, 04:58 AM
Almalexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sushikins

Not really. I consider rewards to be gear and titles as do most people, but apparently there is a group of players who are offended that there are players that would get to experience even the cutscenes.

I don't understand why some people treat loot as the essential reward and plot/cutscenes like some transient bonus. Shouldn't the opposite be true? You can run a raid 100 times for loot, but you only get one chance to experience the cutscene for the first time.
02-21-2015, 05:01 AM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

And making it soloable is going to?

YOU are the one saying that. Is nerfed T6 solo able ? no ? your point isn't even one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

That's a lot of ifs. Maybe they'd have seen the story, and never done it again cause "why bother now"? Gear isn't the only reason people do the Coils. Wait that is exactly what happened when WoW did this! Oops, you just killed the motivation a lot of people had to do raiding. Might as well give free items as well while you are at it! /s

Yeah some people do raid for story. And what ? Killed raiding ? It doesn't kill raiding. Those people won't raid more if you force them in a hard mode raid. They'll do it once, ever bother again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

The journey is what gives satisfaction and meaning to the reward, but the reward is the carrot on the stick. If only the journey is the only thing that is important, then where is your Savage Coil clears? Oh wait, there is no carrot there, so there is no reason to do them! This is why those instances failed, not their difficulty, but a lack of reward for said trials. Putting a story mode would basically do the exact same thing. You can't build a good raid without both the trial to put some meaning behind what your getting, and the reward itself to act as that driving force to push through the content. Otherwise you either have unsatisfactory content (see dungeons) or no motivation to do said content (see savage, Ramuh pre-buff).

petty attacks now ? So low...
I have no savage kills yet because I did not attempt it yet. I've unlocked it though and intend to go there one day. When I get the time. For now I'm happy continuing the journey I started back in T1, which conclusion is in T13. Thank you.
Also you're being confused. Savage failed the carrot part because the rewards is the same than regular coil, thus not being worth the trouble if you want loot. Challenge seekers went there though. For Ramuh, it was because the reward was sub par for its patch. in 2.4 you had i110 ring raining everywhere with coil lock out removal, new i120 rings to replace the old i100 ones, etc... Ramuh Ex was just a hard fight for the sake of it, like savage coil (on a totally different level though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

Yet they did wack it with a nerf bat, and did make it basically DFable. But wait! People still complain that it is "too hard". That's the thing with nerfing, there will always be someone that wants it easier until the item (or cutscene or w.e) literally drops in their lap.

T5 was not nerfed after the twister revamp, T9 has not been nerfed. Are you even trying ?
The story mode I talk about is the current nerfed version (with additons for T5/T9 to make them DF-able), and lets the normal mode untouched, no nerfs, no whatever. the nerfs are already here or happening. Please tell me you're just ignoring what I'm saying and solely focus on the "story" part. Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

Coil was never suppose to be easy, it was never suppose to be equivalent to a story mission.

good luck explaining why there are nerfs to this content once it's no longer relevant gear wise then. Pray enlight me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

What the OP is asking for is in fact a mode where absolutely no effort is needed for the story, which in itself is a reward. As I said, learn the fight and beat it legitimately, SE owes you nothing in regards to this.

OK so you too just ignored what I said.

Take current nerfed coil. This is the story mode I wanted. Now unnerfed coil remains normal coil, no nerf needed.

Tadaam, you just made a fool of yourself.
02-21-2015, 05:01 AM
Zumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almalexia

I don't understand why some people treat loot as the essential reward and plot/cutscenes like some transient bonus. Shouldn't the opposite be true? You can run a raid 100 times for loot, but you only get one chance to experience the cutscene for the first time.

Depends on the type of player you are. Some people play only for loot like half my coil group always skips the cutscenes.
02-21-2015, 05:10 AM
SynMaris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zumi

Depends on the type of player you are. Some people play only for loot like half my coil group always skips the cutscenes.

I play for loot, I always skip cutscenes. Don't care for story.
02-21-2015, 06:56 AM
Cailae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

Wasn't the expansion that did this (Abyssea) basically deemed as "what killed FFXI"? There was also a mass migration from the game after it launched according to MMOCharts. Also from what I've read, the expansion was to convince players to join FFXIV 1.0, giving them one last "hurrah", but then realized they screwed up so badly with 1.0 that they had to keep adding content to the MMO that didn't do bad.

Heck even Tanaka who designed Abyssea called it a mistake lol.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.htm...16&storypage=1

Actually if you look at the sub numbers (or had been a player at the time), the game was on a rapid decline before abyssea, mostly due to stagnation and lack-luster add-ons that preceded it. Abyssea was released as a bandage to staunch the outward exodus of the playerbase. The only real lament from both developers and playerbase was that leveling became trivial with abyssea. However the weapons and armor upgrading system as well as a focus on smaller grouping was well received. Tanaka was also not the director for Abyssea, which is probably a good thing. He was too busy with XIV 1.0. Matsui was in charge.

A lot of older players often seem to want to rail Abyssea, but anyone that was actually still playing at the time will tell you it probably saved it. Before it released it was not uncommon to log in to servers with at maximum a few hundred players. After the release it shot way back up.
02-21-2015, 07:47 AM
hallena

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangela

how to see it?

Youtube and twitch
02-21-2015, 07:49 AM
Cadmar

They did make a story mode Coil. It is called Echo.
02-21-2015, 08:08 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

OK so you too just ignored what I said.

Take current nerfed coil. This is the story mode I wanted. Now unnerfed coil remains normal coil, no nerf needed.

Tadaam, you just made a fool of yourself.

Can sugar coat it all you like, you are asking for a hand holding mode. What you are asking is a mode where no effort needs to be done to progress it. I'm not ignoring you, you are just not wanting to accept what I am calling it.
02-21-2015, 08:18 AM
EdwinLi

Since I have yet to see much mention of this...

Have people considered that Coil Story Mode may have different Bosses.

I found this idea would make Coil Story Mode interesting because it would be a way to help separate Story mode from Endgame Mode with different type of bosses except for certain bosses like T9, T12, and T13 since those three are lore wise placed those as something that always happen. This way players will not face a Nerfed version of Endgame Mode bosses but instead face different bosses in Story Mode.

Of course they could change T9 and T12 by having those bosses remain in their Mortal form (slightly altering the cutscene a bit to show them not transforming but instead gain a new aura of power) and their Mortal Form provide new set of skills separate from their Transformation Forms in Endgame Mode. Like have Nael's fight be a reimaging version of his 1.0 fight in T9 Story with the return of his Clones from 1.0, new skills, and new way to handle the meteor.

T12 boss should also have new set of skills separate from Endgame Mode boss version due to being in his Mortal form rather than his "God Form". Providing different mechanics from the T12 Endgame version while still being suited for his character lore.
02-21-2015, 08:19 AM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

Can sugar coat it all you like, you are asking for a hand holding mode. What you are asking is a mode where no effort needs to be done to progress it. I'm not ignoring you, you are just not wanting to accept what I am calling it.

then you're saying that current nerfed coil is hand holding, and this isn't the thread to say that.

Don't let the door hit you on the way back

(not that I have anything against you. You're just derailing even more a thread that should have died since devs already acted in this way. You have nothing to contribute, or so it seems)
02-21-2015, 08:22 AM
Zumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

Can sugar coat it all you like, you are asking for a hand holding mode. What you are asking is a mode where no effort needs to be done to progress it. I'm not ignoring you, you are just not wanting to accept what I am calling it.

Some people actually like this though in their games. Like on Halo 3 for example if you put the game on easy it says, "Easy - The game basically plays itself." Although most people don't play it on easy because they don't feel satisfied with the lack of challenge.
02-21-2015, 08:52 AM
Dualblade

The biggest problem I think many have for not wanting a story mode is because, well, its a raid. Not even elitist wise or anything, just general MMO wise, raids are SUPPOSED to be hard and most certainly not for everyone.

Then the other problem comes in, though, that there is an actual story here, one that concludes 1.0...people don't just want to see that, they want to be able to have the satisfaction of doing it themselves. What exact balance, if any, there can be between the two can be hard to achieve, more so via text where the intent of what you are saying can be misconstructed since its all neutral sounding, and thus can be affected by how someone else thinks it would sound like in their head.

At best though, the first two coils have been nerfed, even if T5 and T9 are still pretty difficult for many players mechanic wise. Final coil will be soon nerfed as well in the coming months, possibly when the expansion hits. Anyone who doesn't think nerfs will come is a fool. That said an actual story mode may not happen...but then, with Alexander having two modes of it, most players probably will be able to atleast complete the easier one.

So folks, at best if you want the closest to a story mode, wait for the nerfs and hope t13 mechanics are easier to pick up with Echo then t5 and t9.
02-21-2015, 09:20 AM
Zohar_Lahar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kallera

Have the people that wonder why people don't suffer through the turns in coil is maybe they don't want to suffer through it? That the difficulty is no longer in the realm of fun, but frustration? And that they have to face the same frustration with each patch?

Those one-hit kill mechanics with Nael and the like, and the inevitable rage-quitting that ensues, are why endgame content isn't fun. If the constant rage-quitting were addressed, it would solve most of the problems with challenging endgame content that make it not worth to try anymore.
02-21-2015, 01:16 PM
Sapphic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

alexander easy will be SCoB nerfed + echo. Easy enough to see the story imo, considering a nerfed T9 would be meteor no longer go boom if stacked, garotte's a goner, dragon's AoE nerfed, fire/ice nerfed and no longer a one shot is 2 gt stacked (so you don't have to worry about fire at all, jsut stack all time), etc etc...

'twill be easier to clear than normal, but look how many are still stuck on turn 5 almost 1.5 years after it was released, It has been nerfed nearly a year and with Echo, yet still see posts of players stuck there. Just try t9 DF and see for yourself. If Alex normal is going to be the same difficulty as post nerf+echo SCoB there will be some who. as another poster brought up, will have a rude awakening and be stuck on it. I'll safely guarantee that.
02-21-2015, 04:41 PM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

then you're saying that current nerfed coil is hand holding, and this isn't the thread to say that.

Don't let the door hit you on the way back

(not that I have anything against you. You're just derailing even more a thread that should have died since devs already acted in this way. You have nothing to contribute, or so it seems)

It is one thing for outdated content to be defeated easily with higher ilvl's and gear, its how vertical progression in MMO's usually work. It is a natural thing, and even the nerfs in previous Coils, it is still challenging enough to be on your toes. If what you are asking for is a story mode to go alongside the raid in it's prime, then that is definite hand holding for those who rather not have a challenge and have things handed to them on a silver platter. You treat the reward for cut scenes so lightly when it is a heavy incentive to make it through these raids, this is a Final Fantasy game after all.

Also, no need to watch out for any door, it is SE's house and they don't agree with a story mode raid either. If you don't like it, then I would suggest watching your ass when you walk out the door.
02-21-2015, 06:34 PM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Those one-hit kill mechanics with Nael and the like, and the inevitable rage-quitting that ensues, are why endgame content isn't fun. If the constant rage-quitting were addressed, it would solve most of the problems with challenging endgame content that make it not worth to try anymore.

there is nothing that can be done to fix people. Systems, gameplay, bugs, nerfs, sure. People ? Not even in a decade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphic

'twill be easier to clear than normal, but look how many are still stuck on turn 5 almost 1.5 years after it was released, It has been nerfed nearly a year and with Echo, yet still see posts of players stuck there. Just try t9 DF and see for yourself. If Alex normal is going to be the same difficulty as post nerf+echo SCoB there will be some who. as another poster brought up, will have a rude awakening and be stuck on it. I'll safely guarantee that.

oh sure. I regularly do DF and PF for T5 and T9, and it isn't pretty at all. Well, at least there is progress and T5 can get past dives 50% of the time now (but fail 99% of the time on twisters). But T9 meteors are a brick wall. The best I've seen was a group that could constantly go in P4, but systematically panicked after one rotation and died at 10-15%, with the best shot at 2%. :/

BUT, T5 and T9 have never been nerfed. Except if we consider twister's rework to be a nerf (it's one technically, but it just wasn't working). Remove instant kill mechanics like they were removed in T6-8 and T5 will be DF-able like T6 or T7. T9 would still be hard but if meteor stacking isn't an issue anymore, I think the success rate could be more akin to 5%. Not that I would like T9 nerfed now, as T10 and following are quite demanding and you'll want to do more than steamroll T9 to go in T10 before echo + nerfs are implemented, but it would be fair to allow people to enter non-relevant content.

T5 as it is now has no other function but to lock people out of outdated content, which is stupid.

So yeah, Alexander easy will be a rude awakening, but I don't think anyone can be blocked forever on T6-8 currently, so I don't think anyone will be unable to clear alexander story mode. It will be hard, and many will take it in the face, but I think everone who tries will clear it in a timely manner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

It is one thing for outdated content to be defeated easily with higher ilvl's and gear, its how vertical progression in MMO's usually work. It is a natural thing, and even the nerfs in previous Coils, it is still challenging enough to be on your toes. If what you are asking for is a story mode to go alongside the raid in it's prime, then that is definite hand holding for those who rather not have a challenge and have things handed to them on a silver platter.

The time schedule I was suggesting back then had a full patch delay between regular and story mode. And since what I wanted back then is basically the same as current nerfed coil (extended to T5/T9), 2 patches delay would have been better. The raid's prime is no longer after 2 patches, per design. Also, at that time, T5 just became basically an irrelevant road-block, and T9 was the new "can't go further" road-block.

Please note that I wasn't against that as I had said that story mode should not unlock access to regular mode, so clearing T9 story (nerfed) wouldn't have allowed to go in T10. Then T10-13 would have been release at expansion, when people would be going for alexander anyway.
However, I think we may agree that the only worthy reward of current nerfed coil (again, T9 isn't nerfed and still provide second rate weapons for alts, so nothing to say about that) is the story. Which is why it might have been a good idea to make it its own mode and leave regular coil un-nerfed for those who liked the challenge. It's a win-win situation... nerfed coil for story, regular coil for story + progress (access to T10-13) + challenge, savage for super challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

it is SE's house and they don't agree with a story mode raid either.

Alexande normal mode is story mode, just saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

Except did you see what they said about this "normal mode" it's supposed to be equivalent or slightly more difficult than coil with echo. That isn't story mode, it's just a sped up version of the development cycle already in place. There will never be a story mode in this game. Go watch youtube if you want cutscenes for free.

except this IS a story mode. Or at least the "story mode" I was asking for. anyone is able to clear T6-8 now (if they have access to it).

Seriously, have you even read... ?
02-21-2015, 06:38 PM
RathSkybreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

snip

Except did you see what they said about this "normal mode" it's supposed to be equivalent or slightly more difficult than coil with echo. That isn't story mode, it's just a sped up version of the development cycle already in place. There will never be a story mode in this game. Go watch youtube if you want cutscenes for free.
02-21-2015, 06:54 PM
Raskbuck

Personally I'd like to experience the storyline without going through the hassle of finding a decent group or "get gud". Like some people have pointed out, sometimes it's not just a matter of skill. There are times other people screw up, or your internet isn't great, or you just can't concentrate.

I stopped bothering with Coil shortly before the echo buff. People were arrogant, elitist and overall toxic. I never had a problem myself, but their overall attitude was enough to drive me away from trying again. I honestly couldn't care less about gear, but I'd like to add some closure to the whole 1.0 story.

And to be quite frank, I couldn't care less if they do it through the "Echo" (as in just watching the scenes without fighting) or making a story mode version.

Sure, I could just watch the cutscenes on YouTube, but the same argument could be used for most things. It's not the same as experiencing it with your character, or doing simple things like scrolling the text at your own reading speed without having to pause the video.

Feel free to call me casual, noob, or tell me to get gud. More power to you. I just can't justify spending several hours dealing with mechanics and frustrating groups. Why would I have to spend the same amount of effort as people competing for gear just to watch a cutscene?
02-21-2015, 08:32 PM
Edenholt

In THIS game, with THIS community, Square Enix should never put storyline in raids. Just the bosses and loot for whoever are interested in the challenge and rewards that come with it. That would, hopefully, put an end in this endless nagging of "I paid for it, i should be able to see!", while in fact you're paying for the privilege to access the game, but that's another matter.
02-21-2015, 10:11 PM
Dhex

http://i.imgur.com/d32bTNm.png

I made this because all I see in this thread is the problems generated by Square's super basic raid structure.
02-22-2015, 01:40 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Alexande normal mode is story mode, just saying.

No it isn't? They described it as if we did Final Coil with an echo buff. That doesn't mean you are not going to die to mechanics for weeks.
02-22-2015, 01:50 AM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velhart

No it isn't? They described it as if we did Final Coil with an echo buff. That doesn't mean you are not going to die to mechanics for weeks.

they described it as SCoB with current nerfs and echo.
T6 and T7 are doable with total strangers, no communication and while having one or two new players.
T8 requires a bit more than that but any group deciding to tackle it will succeed within a few hours
T9 nerfed to remove instant kills (so same nerf than T6, T7 and T8) wouldn't take much more time. Maybe a week or two with a group decided to go through.
02-22-2015, 02:38 AM
Aniero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

As the hosts on Limit Break Radio said, there has to be money to be made fantasiaing/glamouring as someones character and playing cutscenes for them with "their character' in there. Or better yet, put the cutscenes in the cash shop! /sarcasm.

I find it absolutely hysterical that someone read this post and thought we were being super serious about putting Coil cutscenes in the cash shop. Day has been officially made!
02-22-2015, 05:05 AM
RathSkybreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniero

I find it absolutely hysterical that someone read this post and thought we were being super serious about putting Coil cutscenes in the cash shop. Day has been officially made!

That will be the day I quit the game. lol.
02-22-2015, 08:23 AM
Dererk

The way I see it so far is the vast majority dont even want big nerfs on raids only a very small percent do even the people who get frustrated don't want it from what I find.

The OP said he mainly started this nightmare because he felt bad on how frustrated and sad his friend felt because they were mainly dead the while fight. I feel bad about that but that seams more of a selfesteam issue than a reason to demand this.

I do want to see the whole story but I want to have the challenge that makes it worth it.
02-22-2015, 12:50 PM
Aniero

http://i.imgur.com/aF7lRjg.jpg
02-22-2015, 02:18 PM
Dererk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniero

http://i.imgur.com/aF7lRjg.jpg

LOL just LOL.

Ok close this thread now just wait 12 months people.
02-22-2015, 02:29 PM
Dualblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniero

http://i.imgur.com/aF7lRjg.jpg

Hell, wouldn't surprise me if it would be puggable when the expansion comes out.
02-22-2015, 06:31 PM
Zumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dualblade

Hell, wouldn't surprise me if it would be puggable when the expansion comes out.

I doubt it because all the level 50 content will most likely be level 50 cap on it and your gear will get synced down. So its not like you could go in there with level 60 characters and overpower it.
02-22-2015, 06:38 PM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zumi

I doubt it because all the level 50 content will most likely be level 50 cap on it and your gear will get synced down. So its not like you could go in there with level 60 characters and overpower it.

echo is probably going to be enough for T10-T11. Then as usual remove instant wipe mechanics and done. I guess.

From what I've seen, FCoB is more a gear check than anything (or skill check if you're THAT good), where SCoB is mechanics-driven
02-23-2015, 12:11 AM
Magis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniero

I find it absolutely hysterical that someone read this post and thought we were being super serious about putting Coil cutscenes in the cash shop. Day has been officially made!

That's what the /sarcasm was for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

YOU are the one saying that. Is nerfed T6 solo able ? no ? your point isn't even one.

Ok, seriously, you've changed what "story mode" coil is like 3 times in this thread. Is it 2nd/1st coil as it is now, or is it soloable, or is it 4 man puggable? You yourself seem to not know what "story mode" should be. You say Alexander will be story mode as T5/T9 is now, but then complain that T5/T9 is too hard and wasn't actually nerfed. Just a reminder, SE never used the term Story Mode, they said it was an easier version. Easier doesn't mean a walk in the park.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Yeah some people do raid for story. And what ? Killed raiding ? It doesn't kill raiding. Those people won't raid more if you force them in a hard mode raid. They'll do it once, ever bother again.

People keep raiding even after seeing the story of that turn, so they can gear up and clear the next bit of content to see more story. It's the carrot on the stick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

petty attacks now ? So low...
I have no savage kills yet because I did not attempt it yet. I've unlocked it though and intend to go there one day. When I get the time. For now I'm happy continuing the journey I started back in T1, which conclusion is in T13. Thank you.
Also you're being confused. Savage failed the carrot part because the rewards is the same than regular coil, thus not being worth the trouble if you want loot. Challenge seekers went there though. For Ramuh, it was because the reward was sub par for its patch. in 2.4 you had i110 ring raining everywhere with coil lock out removal, new i120 rings to replace the old i100 ones, etc... Ramuh Ex was just a hard fight for the sake of it, like savage coil (on a totally different level though).

WAHHH BIG MEANIE MAGIS IS ATTACKING ME. Cut that shit out, I never questioned your skill or your ability to clear content. You yourself said you are at Turn 11 so lack of skill is obv not the case. I was pointing out that due to no extra cutscenes, or no items, you skipped over the hard content and went to Final Coil. Why? Not because it was hard (I assume), but there was literally no motivation or reason to do so. The majority of raiders did this besides those who are looking for the badge of honor. You literally proved my point except framed it around items, while I am framing it around cutscenes.

PS: I love the second people argue against someone asking for easier content, they immediately gain a victim complex. As I said to the other poster, no one is out to get you, but they will argue your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

T5 was not nerfed after the twister revamp, T9 has not been nerfed. Are you even trying ?
The story mode I talk about is the current nerfed version (with additons for T5/T9 to make them DF-able), and lets the normal mode untouched, no nerfs, no whatever. the nerfs are already here or happening. Please tell me you're just ignoring what I'm saying and solely focus on the "story" part. Please.

T5 was not nerfed, except for the nerf. An echo buff is a nerf last time I checked, allowing you to make mistakes, take more damage, and push phases way faster so you don't have to deal with them as long. You have to do far less twisters now then you had to do at launch. Also don't forget we are nerfing the content every patch ourselves by overgearing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

good luck explaining why there are nerfs to this content once it's no longer relevant gear wise then. Pray enlight me.

Wait, now they are nerfs? Also again, see my first point. Half the time you are saying the current nerfs are actually not nerfs, half the time you are saying they are lol.
02-23-2015, 12:14 AM
Aniero

Oh I know that. Still didnt stop them.
02-23-2015, 01:02 AM
Kuwagami

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

Ok, seriously, you've changed what "story mode" coil is like 3 times in this thread. Is it 2nd/1st coil as it is now, or is it soloable, or is it 4 man puggable? You yourself seem to not know what "story mode" should be. You say Alexander will be story mode as T5/T9 is now, but then complain that T5/T9 is too hard and wasn't actually nerfed. Just a reminder, SE never used the term Story Mode, they said it was an easier version. Easier doesn't mean a walk in the park.

I didn't. Or you can provide a quote of me where I say "T5 should be solo content or 4 man puggable". As far as I know (and I've checked back the original discussion for a few pages, to be sure), I never said anything more than "remove instant kill mechanics and reduce a bit hard hitting moves". You know, exactly what they did for T2 and T4, and for T6-8. But not for T5 (despite T5 being a useless wall now) nor T9 (which is STILL relevant as it block's T10 access, so I have no problem of it not being nerfed). I talked about Alexander as SCOB "nerfs + echo included", which means T6-8 mainly as T9 is NOT nerfed (I'll go back at it later)

As for bolded part, I never said it either. T8 now isn't a walk in the park, and while learning it it still takes a fair amount of time. Without echo, many groups wouldn't be able to get through too (I've seen a few fail the timer with current echo and i120 gear)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

WAHHH BIG MEANIE MAGIS IS ATTACKING ME. Cut that shit out, I never questioned your skill or your ability to clear content. You yourself said you are at Turn 11 so lack of skill is obv not the case. I was pointing out that due to no extra cutscenes, or no items, you skipped over the hard content and went to Final Coil. Why? Not because it was hard (I assume), but there was literally no motivation or reason to do so. You literally proved my point except framed it around items, while I am framing it around cutscenes.

Assumptions again. I didn't go into savage yet (important part) because I have other things to do, and they take up a lot of my play time. I play by priorities, and right now, my priorities are going to FCoB to know the end of the story I've been fighting for for such a long time, getting my magiteck rod, and that's about it. I don't have time for more. Gonna judge me ? You're free to do so. I'm free to despise your attitude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

T5 was not nerfed, except for the nerf. An echo buff is a nerf last time I checked, allowing you to make mistakes, take more damage, and push phases way faster so you don't have to deal with them as long. You have to do far less twisters now then you had to do at launch. Also don't forget we are nerfing the content every patch ourselves by overgearing.

Echo doesn't help for instant kill mechanics. It's not because said mechanics happen less that they are nerfed. You're trying hard, but echo is NOT a nerf to the fight. Else why bother getting rid of ADS's paralysis ? Or T6's bouquet ? Or T7's petrification ? There should be no need, it's already nerfed according to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magis

Wait, now they are nerfs? Also again, see my first point. Half the time you are saying the current nerfs are actually not nerfs, half the time you are saying they are lol.

oh wait, I only said that T5 and T9 weren't nerfed. What happened to T1-4, T6-8 ? They don't matter anymore ? Or maybe they aren't Coil anymore.

Quote:

Coil was never suppose to be easy, it was never suppose to be equivalent to a story mission.

So I'll ask you again :
If the devs didn't want people to clear it more easily and with complete stranger, without vocal chat or anything, why would they nerf the Coil, aside from T5 and T9 (being the sole exceptions) ?

Didn't they just want everyone to be able to enjoy the story ?
02-23-2015, 01:33 AM
Magis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I didn't. Or you can provide a quote of me where I say "T5 should be solo content or 4 man puggable". As far as I know (and I've checked back the original discussion for a few pages, to be sure), I never said anything more than "remove instant kill mechanics and reduce a bit hard hitting moves". You know, exactly what they did for T2 and T4, and for T6-8. But not for T5 (despite T5 being a useless wall now) nor T9 (which is STILL relevant as it block's T10 access, so I have no problem of it not being nerfed). I talked about Alexander as SCOB "nerfs + echo included", which means T6-8 mainly as T9 is NOT nerfed (I'll go back at it later)

I apologize, I muddled some of your arguments with another poster who was indeed asked for a soloable coil because, "it was goofy". If we set in stone now that you mean Coil1 and Coil2 as it is now, then I'll put that in my frame of mind when arguing you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

As for bolded part, I never said it either. T8 now isn't a walk in the park, and while learning it it still takes a fair amount of time. Without echo, many groups wouldn't be able to get through too (I've seen a few fail the timer with current echo and i120 gear)

Not sure who you are DFing with, but when I did it, we actually screwed up the whole final phase and still were able to get a win. Or are you talking about Ballistic Missile which isn't too hard to figure out, especially if you have done Ramuh which follows the same chain of responsibility mechanic. Also, below you are talking about T5 and T9 being "not nerfed" cause it was just echo, but what was even done to T6 and T8? Blighted had it's damage lowered (a stat nerf like echo) and T8 had all the damage nerfed (again echo). The only difference with T6 was you didn't have to hold DPS, and if you are saying that is hard, /facepalm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Assumptions again. I didn't go into savage yet (important part) because I have other things to do, and they take up a lot of my play time. I play by priorities, and right now, my priorities are going to FCoB to know the end of the story I've been fighting for for such a long time, getting my magiteck rod, and that's about it. I don't have time for more. Gonna judge me ? You're free to do so. I'm free to despise your attitude.

So again, you are proving my point. The story is the major carrot on the stick here, that pushes you through content. Replace "motivation" with "bigger priority" then. Also lol, again with trying to make it out like I am judging you or something. I am stating that this is how content works, not that you are shitty or something. But please, keep acting like I care that you didn't clear Savage or not (wow, I'd have to be judging like 95% of raiders)... I guess framing it as an attack on yourself is easier than an attack on your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Echo doesn't help for instant kill mechanics. It's not because said mechanics happen less that they are nerfed. You're trying hard, but echo is NOT a nerf to the fight. Else why bother getting rid of ADS's paralysis ? Or T6's bouquet ? Or T7's petrification ? There should be no need, it's already nerfed according to you.

Oh... my... god. Echo is not a nerf to a fight? What are you even talking about? So when your tank get's hit for 6-8k by Raven's Beak and they now have 3k more health to absorb that damage, you are saying it did no difference? That can be a life and death situation if the healers are not topping health up. What was your tank's health pre-echo and post-echo? Do you turn off echo buff when doing fights? It shouldn't make a difference then, cause it "doesn't nerf content".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

oh wait, I only said that T5 and T9 weren't nerfed. What happened to T1-4, T6-8 ? They don't matter anymore ? Or maybe they aren't Coil anymore.

You only said they aren't nerfed by a backwards notion that a stat buff to all characters in not only damage; but healing power and defense "isn't a nerf".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

So I'll ask you again :
If the devs didn't want people to clear it more easily and with complete stranger, without vocal chat or anything, why would they nerf the Coil, aside from T5 and T9 (being the sole exceptions) ?

Didn't they just want everyone to be able to enjoy the story ?

If they wanted people to "just complete the story", then the difficulty would be on par with story mode dungeons or trials, not what it is now. If they wanted it to "just be part of the story", you wouldn't have people like yourself STILL complaining post nerf. T5 and T9 were nerfed, plugging your ears and going "ECHOISNTNERF, ECHOISNTNERF, ECHOISNTNERF" over and over doesn't change that fact.

If "echo isn't a nerf" is the crux of your argument, well there isn't any point to keep going on that subject since the whole thing comes down to that. You are wrong, but I don't think any evidence I put forward will convince you otherwise so we will leave it at that.
02-23-2015, 02:46 AM
Dualblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zumi

I doubt it because all the level 50 content will most likely be level 50 cap on it and your gear will get synced down. So its not like you could go in there with level 60 characters and overpower it.

Note when I say puggable, I actually ment echo'd and in the duty finder, didn't mean pugs would actually be doing it consitently. That said since 60 gear lvl synced down would have to be considered good enough for such a thing, most of it probably could be overpowered.
02-23-2015, 02:48 AM
Waffilicious

T9 seems nerfed enough, but for T5 i know what he meant. It's simple just take the Instant Death off of twister and that would make the fight easier for a lot of people, another thing people complain is that when you hit the wall by being pushed you get stunned and killed by the wall.

It doesn't matter how much of echo you have if someone steps on twister and dies instantly and the explosion makes you fly to a wall and die too.
02-23-2015, 03:10 AM
wdrekx

Since people just want the story, SE instead of nerfing the fights to oblivion ie: t7; would it not be better if they just put an npc somewhere for the CS? People would just talk to the npc and it would show them the CS from coils.

I mean I know the harder fights are not meant for everyone and that is fine but when its made so easy that you barely have to actually care about the mechanics of the fight, there is no satisfaction from actually beating the fight; this would then be just a CS grind. So would it be ok for the people that don't want to miss the story to just get an npc they can click on for the CS?
02-23-2015, 05:52 AM
Greven

They will do "Normal Mode" and "Hard Mode" in 3.0 for the future raids. It's not a Story Mode as it's not mandatory but Normal Mode will do the work. I don't know if it will be applied for Coil, I think no to be honest, but it will get nerfs and Ilv will get higher as time passes. It's like a positive answer from the staff to this need.

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