All Greed on Alliance loot

My friend can't gear in rabanastre, because everybody rolls greed to sell the equipment or to change into Seals.

So... why did they do this? It just seems obviously to be the wrong move and no one wanted it?

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Originally Posted by Belisaire

So... why did they do this? It just seems obviously to be the wrong move and no one wanted it?

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https://assets-auto.rbl.ms/2488dfce4...27dbdc663730b6

Hey all, It's good to see people showing support on their dislike with the greed only system.

They plan on doing a Q&A for E3 and you are able to ask any question you want.

If possible for anyone who comes to this thread could you like my post in the Q&A topic to do with the greed only system. I really think this could be a good opportunity to get an answer on this if they plan on changing it or not (they could be changing it in the upcoming maintenance but we know know yet). Also the more people that like it, the chances may increase for it being asked due to it showing it's a question people really want a answer.

E3 Q&A

I will also put this on the opening post for those who just join the thread.

please, SE. I beg of you. PUT NEED BACK!
I have spent all day losing much needed healer gear upgrades to the dps on my teams. This is frustrating beyond words.

Let's all go spam the like button on the E3 question, since that is likely the only way we will get any communication on this from SE at all.

Terrible change. I understand this may work for some people whom, out of a sense of duty and not wanting to burden others, only go on their strongest jobs, and therefore, are unable to gear up their lower ilvl ones, unfortunately, it still hurts when someone wins that piece gear for a job they haven't even unlocked while you could use it as an immediate upgrade.

Also, why the heckle did they apply this to all raids!? I understand greed only for a one-piece-a-week raid, but Crystal Tower gear, for example, has no weekly lockout and is basically only good for glamour and trading in for seals. Good luck if you're trying to collect it for glamour now, because you'll never have a chance of collecting the pieces when everyone else just rolls greed on it and turns it in for seals. At least before, if you REALLY wanted a piece, and went on that job, you'd only have to fight over it with couple people. Now, you have to fight 7 other people for every piece on top of the rng that it drops.

If they dont change this back after such negative feedback I will lose the rest of my faith in this company and dev team.

+1 like for the E3 question, but if they dont want to answer it they will sadly just ignore the question, no matter how many likes it has.

My wife and I are only doing it once a week for the coin under the current rules.

Another +1 like on the post in the E3 question thread. Let's make sure they can't sweep it under the rug and ignore it.
Also worthy of note is that said post is by far the highest upvoted question in the entire thread, with more than twice the number of the next highest voted question(s).

Guys... theres a light in the horizon xD

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

I fail to see why they need more time. This is clearly one of the most despised changes they have ever made, and from what little I've gleaned it's not too popular in the JPN community either.

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Originally Posted by Kathyz

Guys... theres a light in the horizon xD

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

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So after the backlash before they implemented it from all playerbases (NA/EU/JP) and the ongoing backlash after the release of the patch, they still need time? How is that even still in question? How much more negative feedback do they need, for a problem that can be easily undone? That gives me more of the feeling: Maybe if we wait another week, people will suddenly like it..Or will they be going around and just say: Well people are still running the 24 man raids so they seemingly love the change? (Like how they said that Eureka was seemingly often done for fun and not because of rewards x))

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So after the backlash before they implemented it from all playerbases (NA/EU/JP) and the ongoing backlash after the release of the patch, they still need time? How is that even still in question? How much more negative feedback do they need, for a problem that can be easily undone? That gives me more of the feeling: Maybe if we wait another week, people will suddenly like it..Or will they be going around and just say: Well people are still running the 24 man raids so they seemingly love the change? (Like how they said that Eureka was seemingly often done for fun and not because of rewards x))

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I'm gonna go with the 'try it more and you'll like it' spiel they used with Eureka.
There's also the possibility of them deliberately drawing it out in a bid to wait and hope the heat on it dies down enough to leave it as is, because we all know how much they love to admit they messed up and were wrong about something.

Either way it makes them look really bad, both before and after the fact. Like you said, there was enormous backlash before they did it, they did it anyway, and now it's even worse. They have no justifiable reason to wait any longer.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

I'm gonna go with the 'try it more and you'll like it' spiel they used with Eureka.

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The thing with Eureka is that there the drops were more or less guaranteed, so regardless of how much people enjoyed it, running it still produced results. Not the case here, which is why the feedback is all the worse. Thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Rabanstre drops 330 though which is catchup gear to get to min ilvl for Swallows Compass and deltascape

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Except that they've said that Alliance raids are NOT a catch-up mechanic. And that's the reason why they changed looting rules. Gear from Alliance raids are intended for glamours. To which I must ask "Why bother putting stats on them if they're sole intent is for glamour?"

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Except that they've said that Alliance raids are NOT a catch-up mechanic. And that's the reason why they changed looting rules. Gear from Alliance raids are intended for glamours. To which I must ask "Why bother putting stats on them if they're sole intent is for glamour?"

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That shows an extremely lack of insight into their own product if that's the case. But, then again, I can't honestly say I'm surprised anymore if they're that out of touch.

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Originally Posted by Enla

That shows an extremely lack of insight into their own product if that's the case. But, then again, I can't honestly say I'm surprised anymore if they're that out of touch.

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Yeah. Can't say I disagree there, either. I'm just disappointed in this change. I've personally used Alliance drops to help me catch up so I can get the highest tier tome gear (in this current case: mendacity)

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Except that they've said that Alliance raids are NOT a catch-up mechanic. And that's the reason why they changed looting rules. Gear from Alliance raids are intended for glamours. To which I must ask "Why bother putting stats on them if they're sole intent is for glamour?"

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SE really need to figure out the difference between intended use and applied use. They may not have intended alliance gear to be catch up gear but that is how it's used.

You bring up a good point. If it was supposed to be only for glam...then why does it have combat stats? Why waste resources balancing gear if you don't want players to use the stats?

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Except that they've said that Alliance raids are NOT a catch-up mechanic. And that's the reason why they changed looting rules. Gear from Alliance raids are intended for glamours. To which I must ask "Why bother putting stats on them if they're sole intent is for glamour?"

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That's really weird, I wonder where they're getting that data from. I gear from savage raid weekly but I always end up with a few pieces from 24man on my alt alt jobs. 24man also gives me a chance to play the classes I don't get to in raid so that is a little bit catch up for me.

I have collected raid/24man sets for my main class since 2.0. I'm really glad I got the old 24mans finished before this no Need system came in or I'd never be able to complete it. I guess I have to write off the Stormblood 24mans, there's just no way I'm gonna do that to myself. Such a shame :/

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I can't think of a single scenario where greed only is fine. Never mind better than having need. No one asked for this change. SE wasted resources fixing a fictional problem and created real ones in the process.

There is a reason why mmorpgs have had need/greed/pass on loot for well over a decade - because it's easy to understand, it makes sense and it works.

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Perhaps it's because I'm not all caught up yet. I don't think greed only would cause too much trouble in older raids. Better gear is easily obtainable, so making the older gear easily obtainable by everyone isn't an issue as long as the gear can't be traded for currency or desynthed. People would still run the roulette for minions and tomes.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

as long as the gear can't be traded for currency or desynthed.

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; ; ok I know y'all aren't crafters but please stop suggesting this.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

Perhaps it's because I'm not all caught up yet. I don't think greed only would cause too much trouble in older raids. Better gear is easily obtainable, so making the older gear easily obtainable by everyone isn't an issue as long as the gear can't be traded for currency or desynthed. People would still run the roulette for minions and tomes.

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People specifically run for glamour and with the old belts that still drop, no token system, it's incredibly hard to get a piece that you want even with Need in place. Now that there is no advantage and you're rolling against 7 other people its just straight impossible.

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Originally Posted by Sukocat

I kinda liked the idea that WoW adopted where you were rolling for a chance to get loot instead of rolling on loot that dropped. It was something that was implemented in MoP, iirc, where if you won, you got a piece of gear in accordance with the class you played.

Edit: In other words, there was no more loot dropping for classes no one wanted.

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Surprised they chose Greed only over something similar to this system. With WoW's Personal loot, you can set a loot spec of your choice and when you kill a boss it has a fair chance at dropping a piece of gear. Each member has this individual personal chance at gear. On top of that you have 3 bonus loot rolls a week to try for loot you really want from specific bosses. You can even trade personal loot you don't want to a party member who can use it.

Is "greed only" really the best they could do?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You bring up a good point. If it was supposed to be only for glam...then why does it have combat stats? Why waste resources balancing gear if you don't want players to use the stats?

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Didnt they say that they changed it because japanese players used it to gear up their other jobs? Because if that is not the reason and just is there for glamour (why create it then?) why change it? I mean even for glamour this is worse since you cant get it now even with the job so you will have to roll even more often to get it..especially if there is no weekly lockout.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Except that they've said that Alliance raids are NOT a catch-up mechanic. And that's the reason why they changed looting rules. Gear from Alliance raids are intended for glamours. To which I must ask "Why bother putting stats on them if they're sole intent is for glamour?"

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Also begs the question as to why the sets include belts.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

SE really need to figure out the difference between intended use and applied use. They may not have intended alliance gear to be catch up gear but that is how it's used.

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This summarize the hunt issues and how they continuously refuse to buff ARR and HW hunts because they equally refuse to accept people have turned them into open world activities.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

Perhaps it's because I'm not all caught up yet. I don't think greed only would cause too much trouble in older raids. Better gear is easily obtainable, so making the older gear easily obtainable by everyone isn't an issue as long as the gear can't be traded for currency or desynthed. People would still run the roulette for minions and tomes.

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If you want something for glamour from an old 24 man, now you have to deal with people rolling on everything for Company Seals. Admittedly, I'm guilty of that, but will pass if someone asks. Will everyone do that? Not in my experience. So no, the glamour farm just became far more difficult because of this pointless change.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

People specifically run for glamour and with the old belts that still drop, no token system, it's incredibly hard to get a piece that you want even with Need in place. Now that there is no advantage and you're rolling against 7 other people its just straight impossible.

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Yea and I don't think needing company seals should be equal to or outweigh wanting a glam. Nor should desynthing.

If you want a piece for glam usually there's only one way to get it. There is a very long list of ways to get company seals, and there are several sources for getting gear to desynth.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Surprised they chose Greed only over something similar to this system. With WoW's Personal loot, you can set a loot spec of your choice and when you kill a boss it has a fair chance at dropping a piece of gear. Each member has this individual personal chance at gear. On top of that you have 3 bonus loot rolls a week to try for loot you really want from specific bosses. You can even trade personal loot you don't want to a party member who can use it.

Is "greed only" really the best they could do?

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I think it's more that greed only was the quickest and easiest way to make the change. All they had to do was disable the need command and take away the button. Adding a system like WoW's personal loot would mean actually developing something new and potentially complex.

If SE want alliance loot to have equal priority for all, then a system like WoW's personal loot is the way to go. Greed only is too easy to abuse.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Didnt they say that they changed it because japanese players used it to gear up their other jobs? Because if that is not the reason and just is there for glamour (why create it then?) why change it? I mean even for glamour this is worse since you cant get it now even with the job so you will have to roll even more often to get it..especially if there is no weekly lockout.

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Over on Reddit, everytime someone says the Japanese players are behind this, Japanese players show up on the thread to hotly dispute it. Apparently they are as baffled and as against the change as we are.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I think it's more that greed only was the quickest and easiest way to make the change. All they had to do was disable the need command and take away the button. Adding a system like WoW's personal loot would mean actually developing something new and potentially complex.
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Well, we saw how well developing a new system turned out with the glamour toilet. Is this another case of be careful what you wish for because you might get a half-hearted response?

Yeah I'm still mad about the complete mess that turned out to be. There was so much potential :(

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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I think it's more that greed only was the quickest and easiest way to make the change.
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This seems to be the way of things....

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Over on Reddit, everytime someone says the Japanese players are behind this, Japanese players show up on the thread to hotly dispute it. Apparently they are as baffled and as against the change as we are.

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That's good to know. Now its up to SE to see how fast they fix this. Will they address it in the next hotfix or will they pull a Bungie and say "We'll look into things and thank you for you feed back and keep them coming" but take months or worse 4.4 till we get the "Need" function back.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

That's good to know. Now its up to SE to see how fast they fix this. Will they address it in the next hotfix or will they pull a Bungie and say "We'll look into things and thank you for you feed back and keep them coming" but take months or worse 4.4 till we get the "Need" function back.

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There was something posted in one of the other threads with them saying "We're going to give it another week and see how it goes." sort of deal thing from yesterday or so. Which if that is the case I hope to gods they are put in the hot seat at E3 since the All Greed Question outstrips all others in terms of like.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

There was something posted in one of the other threads with them saying "We're going to give it another week and see how it goes." sort of deal thing from yesterday or so. Which if that is the case I hope to gods they are put in the hot seat at E3 since the All Greed Question outstrips all others in terms of like.

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I swear is starting to feel like there way of tell if the player base is unhappy is to look outside for a mob with pitchforks or something

2 weeks, no drops. If they want to continue this insanity, at least up the number of drops from each boss.

While I dont suggest a "boycott" of any sorts, SE will absolutely take into account real data. Instead of torturing yourself weekly trying to get a gear drop just get your coin and move on. Hopefully if they see people are running this content far less than the other 24mans in the past it will send more of a message than repeated threads arguing on the forum.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Over on Reddit, everytime someone says the Japanese players are behind this, Japanese players show up on the thread to hotly dispute it. Apparently they are as baffled and as against the change as we are.

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Oh I know which I find really funny. Using one part of your playerbase to put such a change through (even though the majority of the playerbase comes from NA and EU) and yet that playerbase is also against it.

I was just wondering why they used the "gear up for other jobs" as a reason if somehow they also just see it as glamour gear..but maybe that is wrong information.

In the end its like:

Me: I cant see them doing something that will just anger big parts of the playerbase and barely solves anything
SE: Hold my beer *changes lootroles*
Me: ...

After such a change I will really dont think that anything is impossible anymore. x)

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Originally Posted by Brill_

2 weeks, no drops. If they want to continue this insanity, at least up the number of drops from each boss.

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This is why a token system would be much better. If you don't get an item, you can at least get something later.

Atleast up token rewards from other activities, give more ways to gain them, remove weekly caps, lower the part requirements for omega pieces and/or revert the need change and make a new system for glam based on unlocking the apperance only by seeing it drop.

This slows down the gearing process signifigantly..actually to a point where I'm actually, for the first time since pre ARR considering just putting this down. I have too many wourkhours in the week to put up with this trash as it stands right now.

I beg of you to do SOMETHING! You didn't do it before so why are you starting now with this whole "taking away options"?

We gave you a fresh start and a clean slate with ARR. We hung in there. This is actually a legit example of players MAKING YOUR GAME by sticking in there when you asked us to be patient! Don't start taking options away now! Jesus Christ!

I play only for fun but you guys make greed loots for everyone can get the gears by roll that is really nonsense for me. I want to play healer or tank because I want to loots thier gears. You guys make RNG for open each boxes in dungeon right? Why I need to spend my luck for other roll in each boxes? That is really bad ideas. I play very normal each day but you change this I don't decide to do DR Alliance anymore with tank for loots gear and you know first is DR MSQ cutscenes now this things. You guys change thing to more really annoying :'c Sorry for posting something really mean but I want to share my opinion too.
Tokens is good option for raids that spend time to much in each duties. I want to farm WoL armor but I don't see that as tank before that is really bad.