AOE Toggle Needs to GO

At first didn't agree, but then I thought about it...... The removal of the toggle will add possibilities of having Jobs have unique aoe abilities, which I'm all for.. so +1 for removal

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Originally Posted by Engineer

At first didn't agree, but then I thought about it...... The removal of the toggle will add possibilities of having Jobs have unique aoe abilities, which I'm all for.. so +1 for removal

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Do you mean WHM and BLM? The only 2 jobs coming atm that would even have an AOE toggle when added? Right now only Thaum and Conj have AOE toggle. Others arent able to aoe spells at all, thus the toggle is not even present for them.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

At first didn't agree, but then I thought about it...... The removal of the toggle will add possibilities of having Jobs have unique aoe abilities, which I'm all for.. so +1 for removal

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It really would only add the NECESSITY for AoE abilities/spells. It wouldn't change the current system, and with the current system there is nothing stopping the devs from making spells that ARE AoE only. There are plenty of spells/abilities that are not AoE at all, and the toggle just doesn't come up for them.

Removal of the toggle isn't necessary for anything to be added, just takes away from what we all ready have.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

b) waste all of their MP and subsequently die because their entire party just wiped and c) have no friends.

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Wipe = Tsuga doesn't love me anymore?!

*runs away crying*

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Originally Posted by Engineer

At first didn't agree, but then I thought about it...... The removal of the toggle will add possibilities of having Jobs have unique aoe abilities, which I'm all for.. so +1 for removal

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Oh you mean like AM, Shadowsear, and other abilities that are specific to jobs? It is already there. Useful tool being removed for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Frisque

Wipe = Tsuga doesn't love me anymore?!

*runs away crying*

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Nah, you're too PRO.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Oh you mean like AM, Shadowsear, and other abilities that are specific to jobs? It is already there. Useful tool being removed for no reason.

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QFT.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

What I'm saying is, what if SE does a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no exact single/AoE counterpart? Meaning, what if SE decides to get away from the simple Cure/Curaga? Then the toggle would no longer make sense.

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And this is what get's me worked up in the end. We know they have plans to remove the toggle, but that's it. We don't know the specifics of why, or what other changes are coming along with the toggle removal, so we're left to speculate within the system as it exists today.

I'm not saying that's wrong of us to do, but I just wish the community reps wouldn't just give out little tidbits of information without allowing us to see the bigger picture. We can't just get behind their planned revisions, because we don't have any idea if they'll work or not. And in the context of our current battle system, removal of this toggle is dreadful.

The only thing I'm left to say, as many others have already, is in the example you illustrated, we'll have to set many spells where now I can get by with one, freeing up AP and bar slots for other, equally useful spells to be set.

I do appreciate your optimism, though.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I have. I've said that at least 4 times in this thread already so I'll say it again:

Adjusting the MP cost, hate generated and potency of a spell based on AoE or single-target can be done with AoE toggle. Removing it does not directly address these issues in any way. The purpose of this thread was strictly the removal of AoE toggle, not about adding proper MP cost/hate/potency mechanics to it.

Does it need to be bigger or something? I can totally do that if it needs to be for people to actually read it.

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Umm excuse me?
I'm a full time college student and have a part-time job and currently going to summer school.
I do not have time to read through 540 posts to see what you typed. Rude much?

some people cannot see reason. there is nothing about removing aoe toggle that will directly impact any of the gripes people have now. they will still say i hit the wrong spell or the hate is messed up or the mp cost is different.

regardless if they remove it or not these same issues will be there. they will still have to fix them at a later point in time. it would be easier to fix them now by tweaking the system than for them to take 4-6 months to completely redo another system.

Well that is just no fun. I like the way it is now. Worse, another reason to not even bother playing because of another major change to the fundamental gameplay style is being drastically changed,

hell as long as my buddy as a PLD set up can finally use an AoE cure to help hold hate and back up cure, im all for it. Just kind of sucks when its exclusive to mages, cant always build yourself the way you want when your restricted.

Really SE.... would it have been so hard to do this?.......

AOE off:
Cure_____20 mp 10 power
Cure II___40 mp 20 power
Cure III__60 mp 30 power
Cure IV__80mp 40 power
AOE on:
Cure_____40 mp 6 power
Cure II___80 mp 14 power
Cure III__120 mp 22 power
Cure IV__160mp 32 power


really? would this have been hard? Did the toggle really have to be removed?

Now instead of 4 spells in my bar, I have to deal with 8 or more? sorry but that is complete BS........

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

hell as long as my buddy as a PLD set up can finally use an AoE cure to help hold hate and back up cure, im all for it. Just kind of sucks when its exclusive to mages, cant always build yourself the way you want when your restricted.

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you have to be restricted at some point.... allowing a GLD to use AOE is kind of over powering, a GLD is not a CON, who would be more familiar with their spells in order to pull off an AOE

In FFXI there was a huge list of spells that you had to choose from if you did not use macros. As a WHM it was highly inefficient. The macros solved that.

In FFXIV it is more efficient to not use macros than in FFXI, but it still sucks because of the AOE question popping up. Macros solve this.

When you macro a spell, even if you don't specify "/aoe" on or "/aoe off," your character starts casting the spell and the annoying green button doesn't come up. That button is for point-and-clickers that haven't figured out that the only way to do well as a mage in FFXIV and FFXI is to set up macros. Why is this such a point of contention?

My friends and I party together to fight mobs that are quite a bit higher than us most of the time (2 CON, 1 MRD). Usually we keep AOE off because we don't want to fight more than one thing at a time. However, sometimes another monster aggros us. If sleep doesn't work, we put AOE on and keep it on until one of the monsters is defeated. Because of this, I like AOE.

Now, my macros are not efficient. They can have up to 10 lines each but my longest ones are 3 lines because I don't want to get caught in the middle of a long macro in a battle. My Fire II macro is /ac "Fire II" <t>. That's it, no AOE specification. I would rather see a "Shift" line of macros because in battle, and in dealing with impatient Marauders when buffing, the most important thing is casting your spells quickly.

Even though my macros are wholly inefficient, I still smile every time I cast a spell with them and don't see that blasted green button.

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Originally Posted by Alfar

In FFXI there was a huge list of spells that you had to choose from if you did not use macros. As a WHM it was highly inefficient. The macros solved that.

In FFXIV it is more efficient to not use macros than in FFXI, but it still sucks because of the AOE question popping up. Macros solve this.

When you macro a spell, even if you don't specify "/aoe" on or "/aoe off," your character starts casting the spell and the annoying green button doesn't come up. That button is for point-and-clickers that haven't figured out that the only way to do well as a mage in FFXIV and FFXI is to set up macros. Why is this such a point of contention?

My friends and I party together to fight mobs that are quite a bit higher than us most of the time (2 CON, 1 MRD). Usually we keep AOE off because we don't want to fight more than one thing at a time. However, sometimes another monster aggros us. If sleep doesn't work, we put AOE on and keep it on until one of the monsters is defeated. Because of this, I like AOE.

Now, my macros are not efficient. They can have up to 10 lines each but my longest ones are 3 lines because I don't want to get caught in the middle of a long macro in a battle. My Fire II macro is /ac "Fire II" <t>. That's it, no AOE specification. I would rather see a "Shift" line of macros because in battle, and in dealing with impatient Marauders when buffing, the most important thing is casting your spells quickly.

Even though my macros are wholly inefficient, I still smile every time I cast a spell with them and don't see that blasted green button.

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what does the green button have to do with anything? if you are not changing it you do not have to touch it at all.......... btw, the green button is not for just point and clickers. z works on the keyboard and so does your button you call up macros up with on your controller. to be efficient in kb/m or controller with your mage there is no point and clicking.

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Originally Posted by Felis

SE could do it like this:
Cure (Single) - learned with Rank 8
Cura (AOE) - learned with Rank 30
Curaga (Single) - learned with Rank 50
Curaja (AOE) - learned with Rank 75 (not implemented)

Because in the FF games Cura is Cure 2, Curaga is Cure 3 and Curaja is Cure 4 ^^

Go and play all the FF games before FF X

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Go and play FFs before FFVIII...

First, Cure was used with numbers in FF I-VII, especially VI and VII which most people still see as the best FFs ever. Second don't even come up with the argument that Cure 1/2/3 was named Cure, Cura, Curaga in the original JP versions of FF, cause CuraJA(which you name as Cure 4), NEVER existed in any original JP FF, CuraJA was only the US translation of CuraGA in the original JP version. So don't even try to pull that card.

The first time Curaja actually came up in the US versions of FFs was in FFXII...so I guess I should say "go play FFs before XII as well..."

Not to mention that back in the day, Cure 1/2/3/4 could be used as signle AND AoE cures in some FFs, while the AoE version had a lowered effect so this brings us back to my initial statement.

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"Ending with either a number or a -ga" was related to BOTH Single AND AoE Spells...
This doesn't change the fact that spells always were split between single target and group target spells in all FFs.

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So go play any FF at all. Love when people try to be smartass-ish to me and fail horribly...

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

what does the green button have to do with anything? if you are not changing it you do not have to touch it at all.......... btw, the green button is not for just point and clickers. z works on the keyboard and so does your button you call up macros up with on your controller. to be efficient in kb/m or controller with your mage there is no point and clicking.

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From what I read, that seems to be what the fuss is about with AOE. It's the only thing that makes it annoying to deal with. I don't see why SE would want to remove it just for that and why other people think it's an awful system.

On a different note, if we're going to be forced to deal with -ga spells again do you think SE would make the action bar null to mages, making our available spells only limited by our macros and class level?

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Really SE.... would it have been so hard to do this?.......

AOE off:
Cure_____20 mp 10 power
Cure II___40 mp 20 power
Cure III__60 mp 30 power
Cure IV__80mp 40 power
AOE on:
Cure_____40 mp 6 power
Cure II___80 mp 14 power
Cure III__120 mp 22 power
Cure IV__160mp 32 power


really? would this have been hard? Did the toggle really have to be removed?

Now instead of 4 spells in my bar, I have to deal with 8 or more? sorry but that is complete BS........

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You're made up balance of the spells only shows that you got no clue about balancing stuff. Double the MP cost with 4/5 of its effectivity is already overpowering the Single version of the spell as soon as you have to heal more than 3 targets, making Single Version completely useless. If anything at all it should be 1.5x the MP cost with 30% of the effectivity of the single version. This is not the best balance there would be, but this is better balance for the spell than yours and I came up with it in 2 seconds...

And stop that STUPID argument that you have to deal with double the amount of spells now. First...you will never ever use all of the spells in your bar...second...you never ever have enough AP to actually equip ALL of them anyway...which brings us back to the positive argument about getting rid of AoE that people bring up all the time.

It forces you to make DECISIONS! DECISIONS that can very well decide over the outcome of a battle. Right now Mages can put up ALL good spells and toggle between Single and Aoe whenever the situations demands it...that's just BS. Mages need to make decisions just like any other class needs to make decisions. And right now the only decision mages have to do is, "Will I cast a single spell, or just AoE, since it makes NO DIFFERENCE at all"

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Originally Posted by Reaux

Well that is just no fun. I like the way it is now. Worse, another reason to not even bother playing because of another major change to the fundamental gameplay style is being drastically changed,

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You're going to be having a hard knock life pretty soon then because everything that is coming down is a major change to the fundamental gameplay. :S

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Originally Posted by Cendres

You're going to be having a hard knock life pretty soon then because everything that is coming down is a major change to the fundamental gameplay. :S

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yeah, we know it's change for the sake of change. it is not change to make the game better.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, we know it's change for the sake of change. it is not change to make the game better.

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You and I know the change of AoE button removal is not for the sake of changing, but actually to improve on it. You like saying that just to look cool. If you can show actual proof they are changing it just for the sake of it, go ahead (a screen shot of a PM from Yoshida confirming that to you or something of the sort).

Please do not say your assumptions as fact.

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Originally Posted by Holland

You and I know the change of AoE button removal is not for the sake of changing, but actually to improve on it. You like saying that just to look cool. If you can show actual proof they are changing it just for the sake of it, go ahead (a screen shot of a PM from Yoshida confirming that to you or something of the sort).

Please do not say your assumptions as fact.

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If you can show actual proof they are changing it to replace it with anything better, go ahead (a screen shot of a PM from Yoshida confirming that to you or something of the sort).

nowhere have they said they were adding anything. i believe if they said anything more than we will be removing it more people would be comfortable with the change. i'm one that would rather them say what they want to add before they take something away. i may support change with a known reason behind it, but not if i don't know what the change is.

that was the thing people are supporting it and hoping that something better will take its place, but we do not know that because zero information was given. if we got more info about what the change is then it could completely change the perception of the change.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, we know it's change for the sake of change. it is not change to make the game better.

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Dumb assumption with nothing to back it up. I am willing to bet my lunch money that they are removing it either because there is a fundamental change in the new battle system on our ability to make almost any spell AoE, or if not that, simply because most of us hated the silly toggle that remembered last state and made us AoE offensive spells and single target cures.

Gogogogo shift+action bar spell = AoE!

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Gogogogo shift+action bar spell = AoE!

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I'd be cool with that. Or use ctrl+action or alt+action. Keeping ctrl and alt to macros is duuuuumb. Or make a cancel spell key and double tap an action to AoE. Tap once more to revert back to single target cast.

So is SE really removing the toggle? It's a done deal? Where was that stated?

Also, could someone educate me about toggling AoE with the Z key. My Z key does nothing?

Personally, I like the toggle. Beats having to deal with 2x the spells.

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Originally Posted by zzapp

So is SE really removing the toggle? It's a done deal? Where was that stated?

Also, could someone educate me about toggling AoE with the Z key. My Z key does nothing?

Personally, I like the toggle. Beats having to deal with 2x the spells.

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yeah one of the mods confirmed it that they spoke with the developers and they said it was being taken away.

but yeah when casting a spell instead of clicking on the button to change aoe on/off the z key on your keyboard is the default key to toggle it and on a controller it is whatever key you have set to open your macro menu.

i understand they are taking it away, but i would love to hear what they plan to replace it with. at this point i am happy with it as it is, but maybe with some information on the change i could look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Gogogogo shift+action bar spell = AoE!

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Just an FYI, this is already used in game, as a way to stack Spells (and any WS for that matter) for Battle Regimens.

And how can a remembered state cause you to misfire an AoE spell...if it's on, it's on, if it's off, it's off... That's not the toggle's fault, that'd lie on the player who forgot what the spell they cast not a few seconds before was set on. And no, lag's not the problem there, that's entirely user-side.

In any event, if the change is being made to coincide with some other major change to the battle system, they need to tell us that along with the decision to remove the toggle. I don't think anyone can blame us for putting this move in the context of what we know about the game in it's current state, since we have nothing else to go on.

And I wouldn't say most players hate the toggle. If anything, they may hate the extra confirm, which others have pointed out is simply a sub-target confirmation, which would need to be there regardless. You can't select a target to cure if you're locked on the monster, and using the clunky targeting system as is to select a member to cure is way to slow and cumbersome for efficient casting.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

You're made up balance of the spells only shows that you got no clue about balancing stuff. Double the MP cost with 4/5 of its effectivity is already overpowering the Single version of the spell as soon as you have to heal more than 3 targets, making Single Version completely useless. If anything at all it should be 1.5x the MP cost with 30% of the effectivity of the single version. This is not the best balance there would be, but this is better balance for the spell than yours and I came up with it in 2 seconds...

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oh please it was a rough example, I was not trying to be accurate, I did not even add "hate" numbers. Some of you are so desperate to come up with a decent argument about removing the toggle that you have to do this?

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Originally Posted by Ayerc

Just an FYI, this is already used in game, as a way to stack Spells (and any WS for that matter) for Battle Regimens.

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:( ok ctrl + spell!

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Originally Posted by Ayerc

And how can a remembered state cause you to misfire an AoE spell...if it's on, it's on, if it's off, it's off... That's not the toggle's fault, that'd lie on the player who forgot what the spell they cast not a few seconds before was set on. And no, lag's not the problem there, that's entirely user-side.

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Well not all of us are perfect in mind and body, so a toggle that remembers it's last state is bad news once things heat up.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please it was a rough example, I was not trying to be accurate, I did not even add "hate" numbers. Some of you are so desperate to come up with a decent argument about removing the toggle that you have to do this?

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If it was a rough example, why do you add "Is it that hard SE?" when you obviously know yourself your example was nowhere near something SE could use. If you think it's so easy and it could be done in a matter of days writing some code, why do you not try to make a REAL accurate example and THEN say "Is it that hard SE" again?

Cause as soon as you would actually use your brain and think about balance and how it may effect other things, you would overheat your brain thinking about solutions for all the other stuff it will effect that need to be resolved so don't pull some smart ass BS like "Is it that hard" when you actually know yourself it IS hard, cause otherwise you would have come up with a better example.

And I don't need any argument for the toggle to go, the best has been stated and is pretty much the only reason why the people who want it to go, want it to go. Cause it will add more strategic thinking to the mage classes. And this is pretty much an undeniable fact. While the people who want the toggle to stay all come up with stupid arguments like "I don't want to deal with double the amount of spells" while fact is, they would never use all of them anyway, cause only the higher versions are gonna be of use for them, or do you run around with Cure/Sacrifice I still, even on R50? If you do, you got my pity...and if you're actually able to still put Cure/Sacrifice I on your action bars this even adds to the argument that toggle needs to go, cause you shouldn't be able to put up ALL of your spells w/o even thinking of what might be useful or not. It's all about decisions! Those decisions will make the classes unique and the players who play them as well, cause you will actually see differences between the players instead of just anyone spamming AoE.

I'm just sick of people thinking their solutions would fix everything in a matter of days, when they don't even really think about what they are talking and on top of that, come up with some silly arguments that are not even valid.

People screamed for "class uniqueness"...well it's as simple as that, if both, CON and THM are able to use any of their spells cross class AND use them as AoE and Single whenever they want, there goes your class uniqueness. Removing the toggle and limiting your amount of spells due to that plus making some spells class specific is exactly what people wanted, Class Uniqueness and there is almost no better way to implement it then that. AoE toggle just ruins it.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Really SE.... would it have been so hard to do this?.......

AOE off:
Cure_____20 mp 10 power
Cure II___40 mp 20 power
Cure III__60 mp 30 power
Cure IV__80mp 40 power
AOE on:
Cure_____40 mp 6 power
Cure II___80 mp 14 power
Cure III__120 mp 22 power
Cure IV__160mp 32 power


really? would this have been hard? Did the toggle really have to be removed?

Now instead of 4 spells in my bar, I have to deal with 8 or more? sorry but that is complete BS........

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Really? who the hell sets all 4 of those cures and the AoE versions in the first place? If you still use cure one and curega 1 still after you have access to the tier 4 versions...then your not very smart.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

If it was a rough example, why do you add "Is it that hard SE?" when you obviously know yourself your example was nowhere near something SE could use. If you think it's so easy and it could be done in a matter of days writing some code, why do you not try to make a REAL accurate example and THEN say "Is it that hard SE" again?

Cause as soon as you would actually use your brain and think about balance and how it may effect other things, you would overheat your brain thinking about solutions for all the other stuff it will effect that need to be resolved so don't pull some smart ass BS like "Is it that hard" when you actually know yourself it IS hard, cause otherwise you would have come up with a better example.

And I don't need any argument for the toggle to go, the best has been stated and is pretty much the only reason why the people who want it to go, want it to go. Cause it will add more strategic thinking to the mage classes. And this is pretty much an undeniable fact. While the people who want the toggle to stay all come up with stupid arguments like "I don't want to deal with double the amount of spells" while fact is, they would never use all of them anyway, cause only the higher versions are gonna be of use for them, or do you run around with Cure/Sacrifice I still, even on R50? If you do, you got my pity...and if you're actually able to still put Cure/Sacrifice I on your action bars this even adds to the argument that toggle needs to go, cause you shouldn't be able to put up ALL of your spells w/o even thinking of what might be useful or not. It's all about decisions! Those decisions will make the classes unique and the players who play them as well, cause you will actually see differences between the players instead of just anyone spamming AoE.

I'm just sick of people thinking their solutions would fix everything in a matter of days, when they don't even really think about what they are talking and on top of that, come up with some silly arguments that are not even valid.

People screamed for "class uniqueness"...well it's as simple as that, if both, CON and THM are able to use any of their spells cross class AND use them as AoE and Single whenever they want, there goes your class uniqueness. Removing the toggle and limiting your amount of spells due to that plus making some spells class specific is exactly what people wanted, Class Uniqueness and there is almost no better way to implement it then that. AoE toggle just ruins it.

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how about instead of insulting me you come up with valid arguments, because none of what I have read so far are valid.

I know that as of right now, it is not strategic.

Take the idea of having separate AOE spells, and apply that same idea to the toogle.

When the toggle is on, have the spells cost more mana, cure power would be abit weaker, and hate would be more, along with a longer casting time. and the problem would be solved.

this would give the same solution to having separate spells and would not clutter up a casters spell list.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

:( ok ctrl + spell!

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I get what you're saying though, an alternate way to toggle AoE is not a bad idea. A key combination may not be the best method, however, since the controller doesn't have any unused buttons to match that type of function.

I'd also find a toggle to set before selecting the spell to cast possibly cumbersome as well. Going for a cure, but forgot to set AoE, you'd have to back out to the toggle, then reselect the spell, subtarget, etc. I honestly think keeping it at the subtarget confirmation step is the easiest way to handle an AoE toggle.

Now, if they want to allow us to set two different AoE, support and offensive, or set the initial AoE state in the ability bar menu, that'd be great.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Well not all of us are perfect in mind and body, so a toggle that remembers it's last state is bad news once things heat up.

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Look, I'm not perfect either. I mis-fire an AoE just as much as the next player, but I just deal with the consequences. I definitely don't blame the system though, since 99% of the time, I cast what I intended to.

I think you'll find the same thing will happen with a toggle that doesn't save the last state. It might reduce collateral damage, but a ill-timed single target cure when AoE is needed can be just as, if not more, detrimental. KO party members are more of a liability than an extra mob to tank/sleep.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

how about instead of insulting me you come up with valid arguments, because none of what I have read so far are valid.

I know that as of right now, it is not strategic.

Take the idea of having separate AOE spells, and apply that same idea to the toogle.

When the toggle is on, have the spells cost more mana, cure power would be abit weaker, and hate would be more, along with a longer casting time. and the problem would be solved.

this would give the same solution to having separate spells and would not clutter up a casters spell list.

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You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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Too bad I'm going to just pick all the useful AoE spells now!

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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As of right now, you cant equip "all the spells you want" I dont know about you, but I still have to think of what spells I want to equip on my CON/THM as I mix and match their spells some depending on what I am doing.

The main strategy of "what spell to use and AOE or no" would still be there, and without the backwards notion of separate AOE spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Too bad I'm going to just pick all the useful AoE spells now!

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this.


/p What you don't want adds?... too bad.

Why not have 2 toggles?

One for Offensive and One for Defensive?
Toggle can remember what last setting it was on, but you wouldnt have to toggle it on and off as much.

I've found that the only players that complain about the AoE toggle have either been KO'ed because they rather risk pulling in a stray add than USE THE TOGGLE, or someone in their group died when they threw out a heal at some random party member than actually toggling AoE on (or actually targeting the one that really needed the heal).

Complainers complain because they fail.

I guess I'm the only one that writes macros then...cause it kinda makes all of these arguments moot.

1.) Write a macro to set your job skills. No longer care how many skills are in my book since I never open it.
2.) Write a buff macro and cure macro with AOE turned on.
3.) Write a debuff/nuke/whatever else macro with AOE turned off.
4.) ???
5.) Profit.

Seriously guys, the hours you've wasted arguing in this thread coulda been used utilizing the tools we already have and everyone would be happy.