Best Gear in Coil needs to end

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

What ever you say, obviously your word is law.

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Nah. When what you're saying is different from most of others (who are generally in sync), your word is obviously the law.

You guys better listen to this man, he's an ex pro gamer.

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

Now that we've settled that you can continue to complain about how coil is too unforgiving and uses too many "zero-tolerance mechanics". But hey if you don't like your end-game top tier content to be hard I hear Hello Kitty Adventure Island has a very forgiving endgame scene maybe you'll like to play that instead?

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Hand you the argument so you can move on. You choose to insult and complain, typical.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Hand you the argument so you can move on. You choose to insult and complain, typical.

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Funny seeing that most of the complaining is coming from you.

So, this thread still going, and Gormogon still whining. Nothing has changed I see.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

To many having the best gear and challenging the end-game content means that it's no longer gear that's gonna be the reason that a group of people will be able to kill it but skill.

A lot of people still would but then again, you'll just try and justify yourself by trying to say it's not a challenge because there's no gear. Which if funny because there's people still doing old content that's not relevant anymore.

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I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying with this. The best gear before SCoB was from Myth / Coil. The groups that have cleared SCoB went into that with the "best" gear available to them at the time, just like they cleared the first coil with the "best" gear available to them at that time (crafted / Darklight). If you can get the best gear before you step into SCoB, what would be the benefit to even doing SCoB if there was no reward? The current reward is that you get the best gear in the game. I can't speak for everyone, but the only reason I do old content (old coil, primal EX, etc.) is to help FC. It serves absolutely no purpose for me to do it. When the new CT comes out, I will probably do it to again help FC members, but I'll more than likely be gearing alts up via other routes.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

No what this game lacks is slowly transitioning it's player base into understanding standard raid mechanics outside of tank n spank since tank n spank is usually what you do 90% of the time with most dungeon bosses in FFXIV besides some unique ones.

I've been in many MMO's that have a balanced gear progression that stems well outside of just raiding so that you can raid more reliably. Yet just like everyone else you seem to assume that I or anyone else is asking for the same equivalent ilvl gear from Coil.

I ain't asking for a ilvl110 set outside of Second Coil of Bahamut yet "gear sets" that help down bosses. Ilvl100 Gear with poison resist to ease turn 6's and balanced stats for raiding that don't force players out of their accuracy requirements and aren't lacking with their secondary stats either. Yet keep assuming I want ilvl100 gear with 1M of every stat so I can go into coil and 1HKO everything on sight.

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This is yet a different argument. The argument again is the "BEST" gear coming from Coil. What you are arguing here is completely different, just like your argument about the mechanics. You could have your iLvl100 gear with poison resist, and still get 1 shot by blight. You could have your 110, and if you don't block the "eating" mechanic, the boss is going to gain too many stacks for you to overcome.

came into this expecting it to come to "this is how it should be" and snowflake comments, and was not disapointed. i myself feel it was somewhat stupid to lock both gear progressions behind one thing. the only thing i see wrong with the "let me do something besides coil to get gear comparable to high allagan" is that there is nothing as hard as Coil2 right now. I recently started SCoB, mainly because i am somewhat unable to play with anyone i know could down T5(job reasons). i still put tons of practice into it to learn by exp and not just video, and eventually got it down. next thing is getting a group together that can work on T6+. do i expect to get done with it before 2.3? no, but im not going to complain about other people who were able to get the best gear before me because they started working on something before i could.im going to try and do the same thing they did before i was able to; beat hard content. yes coil should have the "best" gear, but no, all forms of progression should not be behind it. this may be "fixed" when CT2 is out, but if it isnt, it wont be the end of the world. it will just mean CT2 will have no meaning besides glamour, and tomes maybe.

TLDR;there isnt anything really wrong with the system. get people together and do the content, or not. its your choice.

Nothing is wrong with the current content, there just is no where near enough of it that is the problem.

This patch has coil and levi as relevant content. Everything else is vanity gear.

I feel most people are just wanting more to do besides 1 raid (if you can even call it that) and 1 primal to get gear that is meaningful at the time.

If you can beat turn 6-9... you are done with the whole weeks worth of true endgame content in 4-5hrs.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

You could have your iLvl100 gear with poison resist, and still get 1 shot by blight

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Well with that narrow minded way of thinking you'll never understand. Just don't bother this isn't your forte.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

If you can beat turn 6-9... you are done with the whole weeks worth of true endgame content in 4-5hrs.

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Much less than that if you can one shot it all. Turns 6 - 8 can all be done within an hour. Turn 9...well...I'm still working on that one. However, once my group has it on farm status, I'm sure we can clear all of Coil 2 within an hour and a half or less.

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Originally Posted by Awrini

Pot meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Well with that narrow minded way of thinking you'll never understand. Just don't bother this isn't your forte.

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Just what I expected from you. Accuse others of you own shortcomings in order to try and deflect the fact of how irrational a person you are. I almost feel sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Except nothing is stopping the players who don't meet that "bar of entry" (don't really agree with this phrase as it implies that you must group with those players setting this threshold) from banding together and progressing upwards. i90 is more then enough for any bunch of players to get together, learn and progress above that i101 you spoke of.

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No, when Ramuh is released, it won't prevent the i90 players from doing that fight. However, it may encourage those who do coil to stick with other coil players by only running in 101+ PF groups. And i'm not sure it's good to encourage players to segregate themselves from the rest of the population all the time. And it's certainly less ideal if you're in the situation where you're judged to be not good enough to run with a party finder group, purely because you choose not to do coil.

I mean it's not like coil players can't do this already. They can just choose to only run with their static or FC members if they choose to. If they're really determined to run with coil only players, they can just check the gear of whoever joins. In 2.1, if you were in coil you probably had at least 1 piece of allagan gear, same would be true for high allagan in 2.2. But those ways require you to be a little more proactive in segregating yourself from playing with others. But when it's so easy to just put up a PF with 101+, you may see more people doing it.

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

Demanding top tier gear like people is on this thread is like a person who worked hard trough college, graduated, and with dificulty managed to get a respectable job with a good salary, then have a lazy person that din't work or made any effort at all and just demands to have a job with a equivalent salary.

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You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

You can't force people to group with people they don't wish to play with. Those who set their PFs with those conditions want to play with those conditions. There will always be clichés and groups and exclusions in an MMO because the community is made up of actual real life people. If you don't do coil and someone wants to run something with only players who do so, players just have to accept that and group with players who feel the same as they do. The only exception is with random groups through the DF in which the reqs are set by SE.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

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And do you understand the similarities? Just because something has differences, doesn't mean it can't be compared.

It just amazes me that when just about every single person in this thread is disagreeing with Gormogon, he still insists he's right and knows what is for the best interest of everyone.

Pretty classic.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You do understand the differences between a video game where you pay for entertainment, college where you go to learn, and a job where you work and somebody pays you ... right?

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Dude, you would be truly surprised at how many don't.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You can't force people to group with people they don't wish to play with. Those who set their PFs with those conditions want to play with those conditions. There will always be clichés and groups and exclusions in an MMO because the community is made up of actual real life people. If you don't do coil and someone wants to run something with only players who do so, players just have to accept that and group with players who feel the same as they do. The only exception is with random groups through the DF in which the reqs are set by SE.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I mean it's not like coil players can't do this already. They can just choose to only run with their static or FC members if they choose to. If they're really determined to run with coil only players, they can just check the gear of whoever joins. In 2.1, if you were in coil you probably had at least 1 piece of allagan gear, same would be true for high allagan in 2.2. But those ways require you to be a little more proactive in segregating yourself from playing with others. But when it's so easy to just put up a PF with 101+, you may see more people doing it.

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It's just a question about whether or not it's good to make it easier for a certain group not to play with another group. I'm not talking about forcing one group to play with another.

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Originally Posted by ispano

And do you understand the similarities? Just because something has differences, doesn't mean it can't be compared.

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In general, yes. In this specific instance, no. Which similarities do you feel are appropriate here.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It's just a question about whether or not it's good to make it easier for a certain group not to play with another group. I'm not talking about forcing one group to play with another.

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Whether it were easy or difficult, they would still play with the group of people they wanted to play with.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Whether it were easy or difficult, they would still play with the group of people they wanted to play with.

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This was what I was originally replying to:

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

What I like about the SE's decision is it rewards players who are more dedicated and skilled with better gear. Back during 2.1 when everyone had access to i90 you had people with full i90 who didn't know jack about how to play their classes everywhere in the PF. But at least now if I start up a PF and set the ilvl at 105 I know that only players that are good enough to clear second coil turns can join and if they're good enough for SCoB they're good enough for any other content that's currently in the game. I know people are gonna bring up the gear=/= skill argument and all, but at least now that 110 isnt handed out everywhere it's a better indicator than it was previously.

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This guy is only willing to exclude players who do not do coil because it's now easy to do so. It sounds like when he did not have this option, he was more inclusive on who was in his party and would only boot them out if they were not playing well enough.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

This was what I was originally replying to:



This guy is only willing to exclude players who do not do coil because it's now easy to do so. It sounds like when he did not have this option, he was more inclusive on who was in his party and would only boot them out if they were not playing well enough.

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I agree that if Ramuh only requires something like ilvl90 and he asks for 110 then he is being ridiculous and conceited but it would be his PF and if people join It means they accept his reqs. Back when anyone could get ilvl90 instead I'd ilvl people excluded based on clears/achieves/weapons.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Well with that narrow minded way of thinking you'll never understand. Just don't bother this isn't your forte.

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Actually, I think I am being very open minded. While I might not agree with you, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. I have not insulted you or talked down to you to my knowledge, and if you read through my posts on this thread, I'm not a fan of the elitist attitude towards those who haven't cleared either. What I have been saying, and you haven't answered from what I've read, is that what you are arguing is different than what this topic was originally about. What you seem to be arguing is how to get the best gear, not that the best gear comes from SCoB. If you want to argue the one shot mechanics are too unforgiving, or that you feel the gear itemization before getting the SCoB gear is not the best, than I would be happy to entertain that discussion in a thread dedicated to that.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

Actually, I think I am being very open minded.

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Really? All that you have in bold is way off from what I've said.

lol do you get along with anyone at all or no? I'm shooting for no.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Really? All that you have in bold is way off from what I've said.

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I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

You could have your iLvl100 gear with poison resist, and still get 1 shot by blight.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Well with that narrow minded way of thinking you'll never understand. Just don't bother this isn't your forte.

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Um...what? O.O

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

It just amazes me that when just about every single person in this thread is disagreeing with Gormogon, he still insists he's right and knows what is for the best interest of everyone.

Pretty classic.

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I think he's just trying to be annoying at this point tbh

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

No, when Ramuh is released...

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This is legitimately a good point, an effect of the ilevel difference means that ilevel at least for now is an indicator of player skill, and you could set a pf group with a certain ilevel and reliably only get decent players. Of course not to say that skilled people won't be excluded but it's aside the point because clear only groups in pf try to be exclusive anyway. People won't have to try and scare people in pf messages because there's a effective way to find the people they want, they have useful tools.

Of course I doubt this would remain the case for 2.3 as this is a vertical progression game which everyone forgets when they moan like they are going to be i100 forever. It's just natural that raiders get better gear options first, and more options come later

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

I think he's just trying to be annoying at this point tbh

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Quite entertaining tbh. The reason why I'm visiting this thread now is to see what Gormogon says. The actual discussion have probably ended with all points said. But Gormogon is pure entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Quite entertaining tbh. The reason why I'm visiting this thread now is to see what Gormogon says. The actual discussion have probably ended with all points said. But Gormogon is pure entertainment.

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Gormogon for president.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

This is legitimately a good point, an effect of the ilevel difference means that ilevel at least for now is an indicator of player skill, and you could set a pf group with a certain ilevel and reliably only get decent players. Of course not to say that skilled people won't be excluded but it's aside the point because clear only groups in pf try to be exclusive anyway. People won't have to try and scare people in pf messages because there's a effective way to find the people they want, they have useful tools.

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See, it's very tempting. So easy to separate the people who are skilled from those who might be skilled.

It will be disappointing if too many of the groups at the beginning of 2.3 (arguably the best time to run it while everyone's learning) start to adopt this practice

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It's just natural that raiders get better gear options first, and more options come later

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Raiders pay the same monthly fees, no? And this isn't entitlement?

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

See, it's very tempting. So easy to separate the people who are skilled from those who might be skilled.

It will be disappointing if too many of the groups at the beginning of 2.3 (arguably the best time to run it while everyone's learning) start to adopt this practice

Raiders pay the same monthly fees, no? And this isn't entitlement?

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They pay the same, but they put more effort and "work" into it. Yes, I used the word work. It wasn't the players who decided games should reward you more if you do more difficult content, it was game creators.

You pay the same, that doesn't mean you get the same without the same effort. Paying just gives you the same opportunities.

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Originally Posted by ispano

They pay the same, but they put more effort and "work" into it. Yes, I used the word work. It wasn't the players who decided games should reward you more if you do more difficult content, it was game creators.

You pay the same, that doesn't mean you get the same without the same effort. Paying just gives you the same opportunities.

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It is my understanding that the developers changed "the best gear available to everyone" to "the best gear in coil" solely because they wanted more people to attempt coil.

I'm curious what they would do if they didn't see a significant increase in the number of people doing coil.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Gormogon for president.

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I say replace Yoshida with him now :D

Ramuh will have some 10 way lightning but fear not, the cast time is 10s. Even with 1,000ms ping you can still dodge it. Enough time to hard cast a raise/resurrection and the dude still can move to safety after being raised.

Prolly drop i110 accessories with stats like +18 DEX/STR/MND/INT, +19 ACC + 18 Crit + 12 DET +19SS/SKS with all elemental and status anomoly resistance +20 :p

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I say replace Yoshida with him now :D

Ramuh will have some 10 way lightning but fear not, the cast time is 10s. Even with 1,000ms ping you can still dodge it. Enough time to hard cast a raise/resurrection and the dude still can move to safety after being raised.

Prolly drop i110 accessories with stats like +18 DEX/STR/MND/INT, +19 ACC + 18 Crit + 12 DET +19SS/SKS with all elemental and status anomoly resistance +20 :p

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He would probably just have every piece of gear available to be purchased from Rowena for 10gil a piece.

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

He would probably just have every piece of gear available to be purchased from Rowena for 10gil a piece.

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Nah we just need a Gormogon gearset.

- Immunity to knockbacks, pulls, debuffs, interrupts
- Reduces all damage taken by 90%
- Increases DPS by 90%
- Being the last member standing activates Hallowed Ground for 30 minutes

Available from Rowena for 10gil a piece

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Raiders pay the same monthly fees, no? And this isn't entitlement?

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i think it's similar to going to the gym. you pay the same fees for the equipment as the ripped macho guys, but you don't get to be like them if you don't work hard for it. or something like that.

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

He would probably just have every piece of gear available to be purchased from Rowena for 10gil a piece.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Nah we just need a Gormogon gearset.

- Immunity to knockbacks, pulls, debuffs, interrupts
- Reduces all damage taken by 90%
- Increases DPS by 90%
- Being the last member standing activates Hallowed Ground for 30 minutes

Available from Rowena for 10gil a piece

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What, 10gil from Rowena, you mean I have to get to Mor Dhona and walk over to her? I thought it's either via moogle mail or auto drop to inventory :(

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

What, 10gil from Rowena, you mean I have to get to Mor Dhona and walk over to her? I thought it's either via moogle mail or auto drop to inventory :(

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But wait, there's another catch!

You have to be using all parts of that set, otherwise, the set bonus disappears, and your character becomes naked.

I'm sure we can get Yoshida to put a Rowena's assistant in every major town and sanctuary. Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It is my understanding that the developers changed "the best gear available to everyone" to "the best gear in coil" solely because they wanted more people to attempt coil.

I'm curious what they would do if they didn't see a significant increase in the number of people doing coil.

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What just about every MMO does, nerf it or find ways to tone it down and make it more mainstream and accessible. People already complain about DF + Echo yet there's no other alternative that will get the rest of the community to try and tolerate difficulty content like some Primals and Coil that is not fun at all to do. Which is a shame because there's way to get people to attempt coil but those methods are long forgotten it seems.

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

He would probably just have every piece of gear available to be purchased from Rowena for 10gil a piece.

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No it has to be like other FF games because they are all well balanced games while we shouldn't be taking ideas from other mmos like WoW. So you get ready for coil by grinding fates for a Laguna card and converting it to 99 holy wars. No more one shot mechanics!