AOE Toggle Needs to GO

Hah yea. You will just set the AOE cure they add and not even worry about the single. big fix ey?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

How is removing the toggle and making AoE spells and single-target spells separate actions even going to resolve this issue of "I find it boring to spam AoE cure all the time"? If I have an AoE cure I'm still going to favor that in a party situation over single. Its no different than leaving the toggle on.

The issue isn't AoE vs. Single Target its the fact that the application of AoE vs. Single Target has the same requirements and effects. That is what needs to be changed; and as I've said time-and-time again any changes to enmity, MP cost, cool down, etc. could be achieve while leaving the toggle in place. It may not be a trivial change, depending on what the code structure looks like, but it is possible.

---

You can't hate on something that is not implemented yet with the new battle changes coming. I am entitled to my own opinion so would you kindly back the **** off.. thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

Hah yea. You will just set the AOE cure they add and not even worry about the single. big fix ey?

---

Because with the changes in algorithms, battle changes, the party size.... it will change things. A single heal can heal for a lot more, while a party heal will heal for less, cost more mp, and have more hate. That's what I'm looking for but you obviously don't think too far when trying to come up with a quick "like me" comment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You can't hate on something that is not implemented yet with the new battle changes coming. I am entitled to my own opinion so would you kindly back the **** off.. thanks.

---

You are, and I am mine. I just feel that people have substituted the removal of the toggle for the real problem (adjusting hate, MP cost, etc.) for AoE-vs.-Single target casting. I'm also waiting for patch 1.18 (or whenever this change is implemented) to reserve final judgment of the decision made by SE.

To be honest though, I'm not sure what you took offense to in the above post...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Because with the changes in algorithms, battle changes, the party size.... it will change things. A single heal can heal for a lot more, while a party heal will heal for less, cost more mp, and have more hate. That's what I'm looking for but you obviously don't think too far when trying to come up with a quick "like me" comment.

---

... All this still could have been done without removing the toggle button. That's all I'm saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Because with the changes in algorithms, battle changes, the party size.... it will change things. A single heal can heal for a lot more, while a party heal will heal for less, cost more mp, and have more hate. That's what I'm looking for but you obviously don't think too far when trying to come up with a quick "like me" comment.

---

I dont think too far? the whole ANTI- AOE toggle rage came from not thinking far enough, friend. Remove is the most quickest thought of bad fix you can ever think of.

Yes let's remove toggle aoe because casuals have no understanding about when to cast a single or aoe spell in battle.

Moronic.

Seriously wtf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Yes let's remove toggle aoe because casuals have no understanding about when to cast a single or aoe spell in battle.

Moronic.

Seriously wtf.

---

Yes and these casuals wont be able to handle things when it turns into real MMO requiring teamwork and OMG moving in combat.

Popular phrase: "For the love of god, don't stand in fire!"

Believe me... that is HARD for a lot of people to comprehend.

Personally, I swap between AoE off/on all the time right now. If I am crammed in a heap of mobs during a leve, I turn it off. I don't want to have to try and sleep 6 mobs, I like being alive. It's great, and I don't need 2 spells on my skill-bar to do it currently.

I guess I'll just have to adapt since SE ha decided it must go. I'm not going to sit here and debate it by calling people names or insulting them. I'll adapt to the changes. If they aren't good once I try it, then I might have a reason to complain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TirionCrey

"Ending with either a number or a -ga" was related to BOTH Single AND AoE Spells...
This doesn't change the fact that spells always were split between single target and group target spells in all FFs. With XIV they tried it with an AoE toggle thats usable for ALL spells. Sorry...this is not gonna work...there will NEVER be balance on spells if ALL spells can either be cast single, or AoE, whenever you feel like it. Plus having a set spell for Single and AoE targets will introduce more tactic to the game as well once the battle system is fixed. Imagine having a group of enemies charging at you...now you can either Sleep one(SleepI/II), Sleep all(SleepgaI/II), Paralyze one, Slow one etc or just try to fight them all together. This ADDS to the actual combat involvement if spells are strictly split between single and AoE, cause then you actually have to THINK and decide on a case by case basis what spell you're gonna use instead of just "oh, lots of enemies*click AoE toggle on*, "oh, single enemy*click AoE toggle off*...problem solved...

---

Double false. The spells have never been exclusively AoE until XI,and maybe some of the PS FFs, can't remember how they handled AoE. Pretty much every FF lets you TOGGLE your spells by pressing R, or by moving the cursor past the mobs.

Adding AoE spells doesn't change anything up. Instead of saying "Oh, I'll press toggle to use AoE" we'll just be saying "oh, I'll press 3 on my action bar because this unintuitive battle system forces me to waste space on my action bar for something that I could have done with toggle!". Requires the same amount of forethought or "skill" as using toggle, but is less intuitive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TirionCrey

AoE toggle is nothing unique, adds NOTHING to combat, it just limits spells and mages in all possible ways you can imagine plus it causes balance issues that can't be just fixed by adjusting the spell, cause adjusting the spell will affect Single and AoE version of it...

---

You're right, it isn't unique to XIV as a game, because it was in NEARLY EVERY OTHER FF IN THE SERIES. It's just new to FF MMOs, which is where people are getting confused (because all they played was XI, or PS era FFs, where magic doesn't even matter).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TirionCrey

SEs choice to get rid of the AoE toggle is actually a GOOD thing for all mages. That way playing a mage class actually involves thinking and making decisions(right AND wrong ones), instead of just AoE on/off, spam spells...where wrong decisions are not possible...

---

SO, what you're saying is that we'll have to think about pressing 2, instead of pressing Z when casting our spells. Wow, that's such a flippin' game changer (/sarcasm).

It's the same EXACT THING. Except one doesn't limit the amount of spells that I can put on my bar, and the other does.

Adding -aga spells in favor of toggle only serves to limit mages, and is a major nerf. Note this is just hypothetical, since we don't know what SE is thinking right now.

including lines like "That's what I'm looking for but you obviously don't think too far when trying to come up with a quick "like me" comment." Makes you part of the problem... making personal attacks is never the right answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

including lines like "That's what I'm looking for but you obviously don't think too far when trying to come up with a quick "like me" comment." Makes you part of the problem... making personal attacks is never the right answer.

---

Quote:

---

Yes and these casuals wont be able to handle things when it turns into real MMO requiring teamwork and OMG moving in combat.

Popular phrase: "For the love of god, don't stand in fire!"

Believe me... that is HARD for a lot of people to comprehend.

---

My point remains the same. Everyone is entitled to their own ideas and opinions, but it's another thing to call somebody else out and tell them there idea is dumb. Not saying you did do it, but telling me I'll still choose the AoE spell... really? Whatevaaaa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

My point remains the same. Everyone is entitled to their own ideas and opinions, but it's another thing to call somebody else out and tell them there idea is dumb. Not saying you did do it, but telling me I'll still choose the AoE spell... really? Whatevaaaa

---

Looked like they were just pointing out the flaw in your line of logic. Basically you were saying "now that I have A and B, but B is better, I'll always choose B, but if I have A and B and they were wearing new hats, and B is still better, I wouldn't choose B as often".

Basically AoE spells would function the same way with or without toggle, but you were implying that you wouldn't use them the same way. Why wouldn't you use them the same way? The only reason you wouldn't is if the MP/Hate were balanced on them, which has nothing to do with AoE toggle itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Looked like they were just pointing out the flaw in your line of logic. Basically you were saying "now that I have A and B, but B is better, I'll always choose B, but if I have A and B and they were wearing new hats, and B is still better, I wouldn't choose B as often".

Basically AoE spells would function the same way with or without toggle, but you were implying that you wouldn't use them the same way. Why wouldn't you use them the same way? The only reason you wouldn't is if the MP/Hate were balanced on them, which has nothing to do with AoE toggle itself.

---

They could balance MP/Hate/potency/cast times/cast speeds with a toggle in place for one spell.

AOE off- Spell has normal recast time/cast speed, and hate for a single target with the normal MP cost. Increase all/decrease potency and cast speed if you toggle AOE on. problem solved.

Now in terms of hate when you cast a heal in AOE. How much hate do you believe should be generated if you heal someone for 0? If they do it right, it should be an extremely minuscule amount, nearly no hate generated for nothing accomplished. It would more logically generate hate depending on how much damage/healing you do, modified by your hate modifying traits or skills. AOE healing a party but only healing one person with more than 0 hp would not logically pull much enemy hate onto you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reika

They could balance MP/Hate/potency/cast times/cast speeds with a toggle in place for one spell.

AOE off- Spell has normal recast time/cast speed, and hate for a single target with the normal MP cost. Increase all/decrease potency and cast speed if you toggle AOE on. problem solved.

Now in terms of hate when you cast a heal in AOE. How much hate do you believe should be generated if you heal someone for 0? If they do it right, it should be an extremely minuscule amount, nearly no hate generated for nothing accomplished. It would more logically generate hate depending on how much damage/healing you do, modified by your hate modifying traits or skills. AOE healing a party but only healing one person with more than 0 hp would not logically pull much enemy hate onto you.

---

Oh yeah, I agree. I am definitely preaching Hate/MP balance on AoE. I agree that right now it's imbalanced, and the only time you have to worry about AoE causing problems is when you're surrounded by mobs/on Behest. I'm just not blaming the toggle for this (because balance has nothing to do with the toggle).

I think that if you heal someone, you should get some amount of hate for it. Hence why using AoE would be a big risk. I liked that in XI I only used AoE cure (curaga - I played WHM) in dire situations, and I would like that feeling again. It should also consume around double the MP of a standard spell to AoE it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Looked like they were just pointing out the flaw in your line of logic. Basically you were saying "now that I have A and B, but B is better, I'll always choose B, but if I have A and B and they were wearing new hats, and B is still better, I wouldn't choose B as often".

Basically AoE spells would function the same way with or without toggle, but you were implying that you wouldn't use them the same way. Why wouldn't you use them the same way? The only reason you wouldn't is if the MP/Hate were balanced on them, which has nothing to do with AoE toggle itself.

---

Endless mp does affect AoE, and will if they change it. I think they know what they are doing, let them do it. Glad they made a decision that people don't like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Endless mp does affect AoE, and will if they change it. I think they know what they are doing, let them do it. Glad they made a decision that people don't like.

---

glad for decisions that people don't like? that's like saying i am glad people are leaving because i can have the game all to myself. it's easier to fix and tweak a few things than it is to take away one of the few things the game did right. change for the sake of change without any benefit is not the way to fix a game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

glad for decisions that people don't like? that's like saying i am glad people are leaving because i can have the game all to myself. it's easier to fix and tweak a few things than it is to take away one of the few things the game did right. change for the sake of change without any benefit is not the way to fix a game.

---

Don't feed the troll :p.

*Done trying to reason with her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

glad for decisions that people don't like? that's like saying i am glad people are leaving because i can have the game all to myself. it's easier to fix and tweak a few things than it is to take away one of the few things the game did right. change for the sake of change without any benefit is not the way to fix a game.

---

Yeah, I'm glad. People complained because they didn't have enough MP. They gave Mp regeneration outside of battle.
People complained about ranking up too slow, now you get little rewards for fighting stronger mobs (since they changed sp)
And NO I am not saying I'm glad people are leaving because I don't play the game anymore. Waiting till the game is worthy of playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Don't feed the troll :p.

---

I'm a troll now, and always have been.
Funny because I actually want the game to be better.
It's also humurous ya'll cry "troll" at anyone that shows opposition of the majorities opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I'm one of the few that are happy they are doing this. I find it boring to spam AoE cure all the time. It just makes mages dulla and boring, and as of now, there really isn't a side effect to abusing AoE aside from hate because you never run out of mp. Also makes it too easy when you can AoE heal every 2 seconds

---

it's going to be that same after the change. if they make aoe its own spell people will use aoe only version of the spell and say forget the single. if you want a challenge and feel you are just spamming aoe cure then fix it. there is a thing called turning aoe off and only using the single spell.........oh wait you realize that would hurt your gameplay so you don't. you complain, but as soon as they add the aoe version of each spell i am willing to bet you use only that version. if that wasn't what you were going to do you would already be doing it with aoe off all the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I'm a troll now, and always have been.
Funny because I actually want the game to be better.
It's also humurous ya'll cry "troll" at anyone that shows opposition of the majorities opinion.

---

Nope, called you a troll because you said that you were "happy" that everyone else is annoyed by this change. By definition you were trolling.

That and we've been punching holes in your argument this whole time, and you seem incapable of acknowledging it. I find the whole "opposition" of toggle hilarious, and I love destroying your arguments left and right. Knocking the "imbalance" crutch out from under you every time you bring it up is just so easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Nope, called you a troll because you said that you were "happy" that everyone else is annoyed by this change. By definition you were trolling.

That and we've been punching holes in your argument this whole time, and you seem incapable of acknowledging it. I find the whole "opposition" of toggle hilarious, and I love destroying your arguments left and right. Knocking the "imbalance" crutch out from under you every time you bring it up is just so easy.

---

I know right? Makes me one happy mi'qote on the inside.
And NO that was sarcasm. I was pointing out that I'm happy they are making their own decision and hopefully stick with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it's going to be that same after the change. if they make aoe its own spell people will use aoe only version of the spell and say forget the single. if you want a challenge and feel you are just spamming aoe cure then fix it. there is a thing called turning aoe off and only using the single spell.........oh wait you realize that would hurt your gameplay so you don't. you complain, but as soon as they add the aoe version of each spell i am willing to bet you use only that version. if that wasn't what you were going to do you would already be doing it with aoe off all the time.

---

I already stated the reason why they should change, you obviously didn't read further into the discussion. Who's next in that tag team to slap me around?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I know right? I just love being slapped around like your little b*tch. Makes me one happy mi'qote on the inside.
And NO that was sarcasm you twit. I was pointing out that I'm happy they are making their own decision and hopefully stick with it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Who's next in that tag team to slap me around?

---

HOLD IT!

I'm just here to refute your argument. If your logic is full of holes, I will be happy to point it out, and when you're trollin' I'll be equally happy to call you out.

Don't take it personally, it's the interwebs.

And back on topic -

My stance:
SE, if you don't have any better ideas, keep toggle. As has been pointed out a million and one times to no real opposition, -aga is the same as toggle but worse, so why create extra work for yourselves only to please a few incompetent players? However if you have something new up your sleeves, I really hope you are prepared to show it off or describe it soon, considering this is a sweeping game changer to every mage, and a possible major nerf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

HOLD IT!

I'm just here to refute your argument. If your logic is full of holes, I will be happy to point it out, and when you're trollin' I'll be equally happy to call you out.

Don't take it personally, it's the interwebs.

---

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.

---

We'll have to wait and see what patch 1.18+ brings--but I think it highly unlikely that the issue of MP consumption (or, rather, the lack thereof) will change drastically when they remove the toggle button. Besides MP consumption and the ability to toggle AoE-on-or-off are only circumstantially related. There is no direct correlation between the ability to toggle and MP consumption. Although, I agree--MP consumption rules are something that need to be addressed, but it deserves its own discussion thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

---

Sure I did. That's a class balancing issue, not a toggle issue. MP/Hate balancing I can dig, I'm all for that. However whether or not we can toggle, it would still be an issue. Hence why it has nothing to do with toggle, and is otherwise off topic.

Like I said, balance crutch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Sure I did. That's a class balancing issue, not a toggle issue. MP/Hate balancing I can dig, I'm all for that. However whether or not we can toggle, it would still be an issue. Hence why it has nothing to do with toggle, and is otherwise off topic.

Like I said, balance crutch.

---

No No NO. If there is near infinite MP consumption, it would affect AoE toggle if it was on or off. People will still use the AoE spells if they do not fix hate, the amount of mp consumed, and the amount of damage/heal it actually does. So in a way, yes it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

---

no i was just pointing out that if you have an issue with the aoe all the time cures there is already a system in place to correct that issue. just toggle it off. the mp managemen/ hate / and all the other issues would still need to be fixed if they added new spells. that was the point. the issues now can be fixed inside of the existing system without removing it.

i think many, including myself, would like to see aoe and single have different mp costs. that could be fixed without adding twice as many spells to contend with. it will also have to be done with the addition of new spells.

hate on aoe should generate more hate, but once again, that could be done inside of the existing system and would still need to be done with the individualized spells.

forgetting what version you are using as in single or aoe could be fixed by adding a set icon next to the name of the mage that is like a green cirle that is grey when aoe is off and green when aoe is on. that way it would be visual all the time.

my point was that as it sits now the system is pretty good, but could use some tweaks. the difference is i would rather the system be tweaked which would be faster and easier for the development team to do than it would be to remove and add something completely new.

just the single addition of the new spells would not actually fix any of the problems that are there now. it would just make them deal with them at a different time. if they fixed the issues and did the new system wouldn't it have been easier to just add the tweaks to the system in place and still have the same result much sooner?

i was not meaning it as an attack on you personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

No No NO. If there is near infinite MP consumption, it would affect AoE toggle if it was on or off. People will still use the AoE spells if they do not fix hate, the amount of mp consumed, and the amount of damage/heal it actually does. So in a way, yes it does.

---

You're right in that Hate, MP, and damage spread need to be addressed, BECAUSE we have a near infinite supply of MP. NOT because of toggle. If people still lean on toggle after adjustments, then they will a) die from aggro b) waste all of their MP and subsequently die because their entire party just wiped and c) have no friends.

Basically if the game is balanced right, whether or not we have toggle we will still have AoE, and nothing is stopping people from spamming AoE as long as we have it. By your logic the solution would be to take AoE away all together, because it has nothing to do with using toggle, and everything to do with spamming AoE - Which is still avoiding the fact that the issue you keep bringing up is an issue of balance, not whether or not AoE toggle is an effective means by which to use AoE spells, and is basically off topic. I don't mind if you want to lean on that crutch, though, you just aren't making any valid points against toggle when you do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

---

I guess I don't understand your reasoning on why you think the Area Effect toggle functionality should be removed.

From reading your posts:

• I understand why you think spells cast with an area effect should cost more MP than when they are single target.
• I understand why you think spells cast with an area effect should generate more Enmity than when they are single target.
• I do not understand why you think removal of the Area Effect toggle function would directly correct the previous two issues.

I guess I need you to walk me through how removing the Area Effect toggle is better than simply just increasing the MP costs and Enmity generated when casting spells in AoE mode.

I don't know, from what I've seen, it worked in XI. I don't see why it wouldn't work in XIV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I don't know, from what I've seen, it worked in XI. I don't see why it wouldn't work in XIV

---

Are you saying that having separate AoE spells worked in XI?

In XI we weren't limited by an action bar and AP.

Also, AoE was balanced in Hate/MP Cost in XI, which it isn't here. That's why AoE spells were used cautiously then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't see the 'holes' in my logic. You didn't even reply to the fact that you don't have to worry about mp consumption unless it's a NM.
The only thing ya'll called me out on was saying I'd still choose the AoE over the single target.

---

I have. I've said that at least 4 times in this thread already so I'll say it again:

Adjusting the MP cost, hate generated and potency of a spell based on AoE or single-target can be done with AoE toggle. Removing it does not directly address these issues in any way. The purpose of this thread was strictly the removal of AoE toggle, not about adding proper MP cost/hate/potency mechanics to it.

Does it need to be bigger or something? I can totally do that if it needs to be for people to actually read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

I have. I've said that at least 4 times in this thread already so I'll say it again:

Adjusting the MP cost, hate generated and potency of a spell based on AoE or single-target can be done with AoE toggle. Removing it does not directly address these issues in any way. The purpose of this thread was strictly the removal of AoE toggle, not about adding proper MP cost/hate/potency mechanics to it.

Does it need to be bigger or something? I can totally do that if it needs to be for people to actually read it.

---

I think if you look at my last 20 posts, pretty much all of them mirror your post right here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Then this is how cure would work? I don't see what you're getting at.

---

What I'm saying is, what if SE does a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no exact single/AoE counterpart? Meaning, what if SE decides to get away from the simple Cure/Curaga? Then the toggle would no longer make sense.

Let me try to illustrate my point using a spellbook from a healing class in another MMO. Look at the below spell list and take into account MP cost, casting time, cooldown (if applicable) and description. Tell me if you see any two that are direct counterparts to each other:

Heal
9% of base mana
3 sec cast
Heals a single target for 3136 to 3644.

Flash Heal
28% of base mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a single target for 6272 to 7288.

Greater Heal
27% of base mana
3 sec cast
A slow casting spell that heals a single target for 8362 to 9716.

Prayer of Healing
26% of base mana
2.5 sec cast
A powerful prayer heals the friendly target's party members within 30 yards for 3087 to 3261.

Circle of Healing
21% of base mana
Instant 10 sec cooldown
Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 30 yards of the target for 2309 to 2551. Prioritizes healing the most injured party members.

Binding Heal
28% of base mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target and the caster for 4753 to 6109. Low threat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

What I'm saying is, what if SE does a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no exact single/AoE counterpart? Meaning, what if SE decides to get away from the simple Cure/Curaga? Then the toggle would no longer make sense.

Let me try to illustrate my point using a spellbook from a healing class in another MMO. Look at the below spell list and take into account MP cost, casting time, cooldown (if applicable) and description. Tell me if you see any two that are direct counterparts to each other:

Heal
9% of base mana
3 sec cast
Heals a single target for 3136 to 3644.

Flash Heal
28% of base mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a single target for 6272 to 7288.

Greater Heal
27% of base mana
3 sec cast
A slow casting spell that heals a single target for 8362 to 9716.

Prayer of Healing
26% of base mana
2.5 sec cast
A powerful prayer heals the friendly target's party members within 30 yards for 3087 to 3261.

Circle of Healing
21% of base mana
Instant 10 sec cooldown
Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 30 yards of the target for 2309 to 2551. Prioritizes healing the most injured party members.

Binding Heal
28% of base mana
1.5 sec cast
Heals a friendly target and the caster for 4753 to 6109. Low threat.

---

I see, this looks like a potential solution for lack of AoE toggle, but still falls into the area of 5 spells that all essentially do the same thing. These all heal, but are balanced differently for specific situations (I'm assuming). Unless they're completely reworking the action bar and class system, I really don't feel like this kind of spell book works with XIV (at least not with the weapon classes. Maybe for White Mage?). Either way, it still complicates what is a more streamlined system (Toggle), and as far as I'm concerned is not a good case for removing toggle all together. We're still talking about balance here, not the pros/cons of the toggle itself.

Thank you for clarifying, though.

I've never had an accidental AoE cast. The only accidents I've had are with targeting, but no targeting issues lately.

Edit: I've played as a Priest on that MMO and Heal and Greater Heal, and Flash Heal and Binding Heal are counterparts to each other. Prayer of Healing and Circle of healing are counter parts to each other as well. Just because they don't do the exact same thing doesn't mean they aren't related. Cure/Cure II/Cure III all have different MP costs, healing done, and casting times, but obviously they are related. Different name =/= different spell-type.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApplePie

Edit: I've played as a Priest on that MMO and Heal and Greater Heal, and Flash Heal and Binding Heal are counterparts to each other. Prayer of Healing and Circle of healing are counter parts to each other as well.

---

Yup, you recognized the game. I knew it wouldn't take long. ;)

I think you've got it backwards, though? What I'm saying is, where is the AoE counterpart to Heal (Greater Heal is also single target)? Where is the single-target counterpart to CoH? There would be no clearcut way to split them down the middle if SE went with more complex choices like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

These all heal, but are balanced differently for specific situations (I'm assuming).

---

Yes. With a setup like this, you need to make decisions based on your needs:

-Heal - Your go-to bread and butter spell. Moderate cast time and MP cost.
-Flash Heal - Your OMG-the-tank's-gonna-die panic spell. Quick to cast, but high MP cost, not meant to be spammed.
-Greater Heal - Use when your tank takes huge burst damage, but has enough health to survive the long cast timer.
-Prayer of Healing - AoE healing spell (and probably the closest counterpart to Greater Heal)
-Circle of Healing - Instant-cast AoE healing spell, doesn't heal for as much as PoH, but good in a pinch.
-Binding Heal - Usually used when you need to top yourself off and the tank can use a heal, or in a threat-sensitive situation (low-threat heal).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Unless they're completely reworking the action bar and class system, I really don't feel like this kind of spell book works with XIV (at least not with the weapon classes. Maybe for White Mage?).

---

I agree that this isn't a traditional FF setup. I really used it more for example to illustrate that whatever changes they're making may be something that completely negates the toggle being appropriate. Who knows what SE has in mind right now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsuga

Thank you for clarifying, though.

---

You're welcome. Even though I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree in the end, I appreciate that you've kept the debate civil.

Flash of Heal; Binding Heal -- Heal; Prayer of Healing -- Renew;Circle of Healings counterpart in that aspect. Greater Heal; Divine Hymn