Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

The irony of taunting Redmage and then getting upset when he responds.

Regardless, either share the discord drama in screencapsor keep it in discord, don't drag it here and tease us with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireMage

There has been no harassment from me towards you

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Going out of your way to find their discord ID and messaging them there is more or less harassment... but its about what I'd expect from a troll like you I suppose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

i have gathered the entity of your harassment and sent it to both the ffxiv as well as discord moderation team

good luck

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireMage

There has been no harassment from me towards you

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So when's the wedding?

Most people know to not respond to Firemage. Then you have the ones where he lives absolutely rent free in their heads and they go unhinged the moment he walks in the door lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renalt

So when's the wedding?

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I support a lot of things.

Mario & Luigi coming together in holy matrimony isn't one of em.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I support a lot of things.

Mario & Luigi coming together in holy matrimony isn't one of em.

---

How about unholy matrimony?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renalt

How about unholy matrimony?

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Go on.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/fb3bbd5e...wb5do1_500.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renalt

How about unholy matrimony?

---

I'll call Edda and we can schedule something.

Question is. Who'll be wearing the dress? One? Both? Neither?

Firemage is obvious tho, whatever they wear has to be dalamud red.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Funny thing in most cases the worst form of "toxic" behavior people will go through is being told they suck and maybe should uninstall the game. That is the worse case, most likely what will happen is what happens now silent kicks. Sure, we might see an uptick on people being bared from PF groups due to past performance. Willing to grant all these points, yet let me ask. Does it really destroy the game if someone calls you trash? Does it really have such a negative impact if someone kicks you from the group? I would say instead of a healthier source of self-worth many just need to have some self-worth to begin with and stop letting trolls and jerks online impact their state on mind and being. Since let us be real that is what this really boils down to people do not want to get their feelings hurt by "toxic" behavior. If this level of toxic behavior is enough to get people to quit or ruin their enjoy of the game, then idk what to say.

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Yeah, some guy who gets home from work and plays this game for 4 hours a week fumbling his way through MSQ dungeons probably isn't going to be happy getting called trash and kicked from a duty that you can literally clear by rolling your face across the keyboard. You know, the kind of behavior that gets complained about pretty much daily in WoW communities. This game is OVERWHELMINGLY casual, and you will absolutely ruin peoples experiences if you try to foster any kind of unnecessary competitiveness in trivial duties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Yeah, people need to get some self-worth that isn't fragile enough to be broken by some stranger on the internet who might say your DPS is bad.

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Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

Again, the greatest argument against official meters is a 5 minute perusal of this thread. Meters will never be added to this game in an official capacity. If you want the player-base to get better, go teach and help people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

Again, the greatest argument against official meters is a 5 minute perusal of this thread. Meters will never be added to this game in an official capacity. If you want the player-base to get better, go teach and help people.

---

And yet the toxic casuals are absolutely free to sneer about the concept of improvement, bitch endlessly about theoretical toxicity that has no basis outside their own hallucinations, and carry the torch for the TOS-shielded Mean Girling that's rampant in FF14's community. But this is okay, because at least it means we can't....*gasp* see facts or learn anything. Ew.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

And yet the toxic casuals are absolutely free to sneer about the concept of improvement, bitch endlessly about theoretical toxicity that has no basis outside their own hallucinations, and carry the torch for the TOS-shielded Mean Girling that's rampant in FF14's community. But this is okay, because at least it means we can't....*gasp* see facts or learn anything. Ew.

---

It's okay. Let them (them in general, not the person you're replying to specifically before anything I'm about to say gets twisted around) be hypocritical/disingenuous. Anyone with half a brain isn't going to assume everyone is like forums Firemage in game. The scapegoating on a hypothetical parser is quite humorous. Also it's funny how people claim this board is not indicative of the community as a whole... but now we're trying to use this board as an example of what the community would do...

I still have yet to run into these supposed WoW players that constantly scream about damage meters "daily". And I run a *lot* of dungeons. Actually since Dragonflight dropped most of my dungeons have been entirely silent. l thought I was back in 14 for a bit.

And once again we are going ALL OR NOTHING on this whole debate. There is a hypothetical where regulars dungeons don't get a parser added
That hypothetical does exist, y'all can lay down your torches and pitchforks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I'll call Edda and we can schedule something.

Question is. Who'll be wearing the dress? One? Both? Neither?

Firemage is obvious tho, whatever they wear has to be dalamud red.

---

Wait...those kind of weddings usually require sacrifices and I'm not volunteering.

You sure we couldn't put Firemage in the dress for funzies? I'm sure he would look precious.

people are always going to find ways to be victims, i think a parser should be avail for dps check stuff, if you are doing dps check content that requires a minimum overall dps it should be avail. There is point of people fooling themselves when lets say the min dps req is 42k and they are only doing 39k they truely need to figure out where the issue is or its just a fools errand.

A dps meter should not be avail for normal content. dungeons, normal raid ect. Unless they personally want for themselves and their own metric.

I did a Barbarossa Trial normal with a roulette i did 10 to 11k sustained damage while taking tank busters god bless monk and how broken riddle of earth is. I did 47 % boss damage and it took 12 min to kill, the rest of the group was sub 3k dps 2 even below 1k. Now this is an extreme example but this happens, however, those guys prolly know they did bad, but no idea how bad w/o the knowledge I dunno how they would get better.

No one cares if you do poorly on MSQ Normal content, Ill carry you, its expected. But this argument about DPS Meters is a fools argument anyway, everyone does it that does savage + even PS players ask for logs. If you have logs then someone has a DPS meter and most savage groups require logs that showed at a min that you are experienced and capable of clearing content.

Thou i do agree with the guy a couple post up. Some people know and try to bait out people with in game chat, They play lazily or really terribly then when you ask them to do their job, like "taunt" after tanking a boss for 40 % of its life as a dps I am the elitist then and they will not shut up :|

this argument goes both ways, i see half the arguments against it and its straight up made up. This isnt wow and you are doing a mythic 25, this is MSQ dungeons where 1 toon can carry everything. 99 % of dungeons is 2 packs kill boss 2 packs kill boss, and all my dps specs do like 30k on trash now/ A newbie dps that does sub 5k is no problem to carry.

Again no one gives a shit about normal/msq stuff :| well anyone any good anyway. bc they wouldnt care, its normal/msq they arnt expecting to play with top tier players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Yeah, some guy who gets home from work and plays this game for 4 hours a week fumbling his way through MSQ dungeons probably isn't going to be happy getting called trash and kicked from a duty that you can literally clear by rolling your face across the keyboard. You know, the kind of behavior that gets complained about pretty much daily in WoW communities. This game is OVERWHELMINGLY casual, and you will absolutely ruin peoples experiences if you try to foster any kind of unnecessary competitiveness in trivial duties.




Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

Again, the greatest argument against official meters is a 5 minute perusal of this thread. Meters will never be added to this game in an official capacity. If you want the player-base to get better, go teach and help people.

---

So you are saying the causal player has the right to force their standards of play on others, but when it goes the other way around it is toxic? That being said extreme cases can and will still be punished by the ToS, sure other forms of harassment may be considered harassment by the player but maybe not by the ToS or the GM so certain things will not be punished like being removed from the group. Is that really a big deal?

Sure the game is causal, but that does not mean people should get a free pass. Some are okay with carrying people through content, so I am but they have to be trying. I am not going to carry the person that only has 4 hours to play and does an MSQ dungeon while only doing their 1-2-3 combo and that is it. You may view that as toxic, but I view not respecting the time of the others you are playing with to at the very least try is far more toxic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Isn't it funny how we went from 'Meters don't cause toxicity' to 'The ToS will still protect us' to 'People need to have thicker skin and deal with being called trash', while half the pro-meter side of the argument has just been posting toxic nonsense the entire time. Such a compelling position.

---

Okay, how's this for a compelling argument?

Square Enix doesn't care.

So stop whining like children and get over it. You're not going to stop people from using parses, even casual people use them without perceived toxicity.

Whining and crying over this when Yoshida has already said the dev team treats parsing as a gray area and only frowns upon people being toxic with it, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TOOL WOULD, is so childish it makes me question how you even operate in real life.

Grow the hell up and stop derailing this thread just because you're insecure about your performance as a casual.

If half of you had this much gusto and energy to defend against actual issues plaguing the game, things would have been far better.

But no, let's whine like toddlers because someone used a tool to add up our damage numbers.

Never change, FF14 community, never change!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

So you are saying the causal player has the right to force their standards of play on others, but when it goes the other way around it is toxic?

---

This is the crux of what drives so much of this huh.

Some people feel genuine interpersonal aggression towards people who play the game badly, as if the act of playing the game badly is some kind of slight against them. Being inexperienced, or being bad at a game, is not an inherently malicious action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Okay, how's this for a compelling argument?

Square Enix doesn't care.

So stop whining like children and get over it. You're not going to stop people from using parses, even casual people use them without perceived toxicity.

Whining and crying over this when Yoshida has already said the dev team treats parsing as a gray area and only frowns upon people being toxic with it, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TOOL WOULD, is so childish it makes me question how you even operate in real life.

Grow the hell up and stop derailing this thread just because you're insecure about your performance as a casual.

---

Lmao why do you sound like you are having a mental breakdown every single time you post on these forums. Typical hroth player I guess.

You probably should have done some research on me before making a bunch of really embarrassing assumptions about my motives.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

If half of you had this much gusto and energy to defend against actual issues plaguing the game, things would have been far better.

But no, let's whine like toddlers because someone used a tool to add up our damage numbers.

Never change, FF14 community, never change!

---

But Midareyukki, some random on the internet that I'll likely never see again and shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on my life might, might, MIGHT say mean things to me :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

This is the crux of what drives so much of this huh.

Some people feel genuine interpersonal aggression towards people who play the game badly, as if the act of playing the game badly is some kind of slight against them. Being inexperienced, or being bad at a game, is not an inherently malicious action.

---

You are correct, but telling someone to perform for the role they queued up for is also not inherently toxic. I would even go so far as saying removing someone that does not mesh with the group for w/e reason is not inherently toxic either. People are free to play how and with whom they want. Yet it seems for some reason depending on the content that only goes one way, I think it is should go both ways no matter the content. Just let the group choose, give players the tools to better police their own experience. As I mentioned not wanting to play with someone is not inherently toxic, some are cool with carrying others that is fine, others are not. This does not make the former a inherently better person or the latter a worse person. All it does it just show how people have different standards, what is toxic or malicious is how the person goes about it. Sure people will go about it harshly not going to say that is not the case, but for the most part it probably would be handled via the silent removal of the player, or maybe with a brief explanation as to why they are being removed.

Kicks are not personal most of the time, no need to make it personal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

But Midareyukki, some random on the internet that I'll likely never see again and shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on my life might, might, MIGHT say mean things to me :(

---

Skill issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

This is the crux of what drives so much of this huh.

Some people feel genuine interpersonal aggression towards people who play the game badly, as if the act of playing the game badly is some kind of slight against them. Being inexperienced, or being bad at a game, is not an inherently malicious action.

---

Really twisting their words around while snipping a specific part of their post out to respond to, huh? Answer the question they asked. If it's okay for toxic casuals (yes, I make a distinction because there IS a difference, and I wish the other pro-parser people in this thread would as well, as a normal casual isn't going to be the target of all of this hypothetical parser aggression) to cry about not being inspected by parsing tools while they leech off the group that's carrying them, why is it so bad when the shoe's on the other foot? This is the whole TOS thing again where if there's a discrepancy of playstyle, kick the person that doesn't fit. Happens now already, and we don't even have in-game parsers.

This goes all the way back to the whole argument that happened a while back where people shouldn't be expected to carry leeches through duties, and everyone should respect their fellow players' time enough to put in the minimum effort of at least trying. People that actually do that aren't going to be targeted by parse Hitler (extreme outlier crazies aside, of course, but those exist in *everything* and you CANNOT account for extremely niche circumstances) like you're all claiming. The people that are "elitist" enough to be worrying about dungeon parsing are 1. Not even going to be doing that content because they don't need to, and 2. The toxic assholes that are going to be toxic REGARDLESS of an in-game parser, the parser didn't suddenly make them that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Skill issue.

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This is toxic, skill is not required to do casual content just carry people no matter what.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Skill issue.

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[goes ballistic and gets screenshotted and shared to /r Tales of Duty Finder]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

[goes ballistic and gets screenshotted and shared to /r Tales of Duty Finder]

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Going to have to embellish it a tad for that sub forum. :smirk:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Really twisting their words around while snipping a specific part of their post out to respond to, huh? Answer the question they asked. If it's okay for toxic casuals (yes, I make a distinction because there IS a difference, and I wish the other pro-parser people in this thread would as well, as a normal casual isn't going to be the target of all of this hypothetical parser aggression) to cry about not being inspected by parsing tools while they leech off the group that's carrying them, why is it so bad when the shoe's on the other foot? This is the whole TOS thing again where if there's a discrepancy of playstyle, kick the person that doesn't fit. Happens now already, and we don't even have in-game parsers.

---

They edited their post while I was replying to it, dude. The text in the quote in my post is the entire content of their original post. If you notice, most of their posts have a 'Last edited' time on them.

People like you will characterize anyone who is bad as a 'toxic casual' or a 'leech', and then you use that characterization to justify being toxic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

This goes all the way back to the whole argument that happened a while back where people shouldn't be expected to carry leeches through duties, and everyone should respect their fellow players' time enough to put in the minimum effort of at least trying. People that actually do that aren't going to be targeted by parse Hitler (extreme outlier crazies aside, of course, but those exist in *everything* and you CANNOT account for extremely niche circumstances) like you're all claiming. The people that are "elitist" enough to be worrying about dungeon parsing are 1. Not even going to be doing that content because they don't need to, and 2. The toxic assholes that are going to be toxic REGARDLESS of an in-game parser, the parser didn't suddenly make them that way.

---

This thread is quite literally full of people who mald and obsess over parses in dungeons. Are we even reading the same thread lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

They edited their post while I was replying to it, dude. The text in the quote in my post is the entire content of their original post. If you notice, most of their posts have a 'Last edited' time on them.

People like you will characterize anyone who is bad as a 'toxic casual' or a 'leech', and then you use that characterization to justify being toxic.



This thread is quite literally full of people who mald and obsess over parses in dungeons. Are we even reading the same thread lmao

---

My edited posts just add stuff, I did not remove anything. I would also like to know the answer why is it okay for one but not the other. You also quoted the question, so if you would be so kind.

End of the day if we are being fair, neither side is inherently toxic. It is how someone goes about it that makes it toxic, but that is what the ToS is for, it meant to punish those that cross the line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

This is toxic, skill is not required to do casual content just carry people no matter what.

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That explains the guys throwing a fit over people mathing how many numbers their fictional playable pixels does.

I'm casual too, my parses are so gray they put Forchenault's pubes to shame, and I agree with the existence of parsing. Whatever issue comes from it would be there regardless, just transformed.

Conservation of Internet Toxicity: Negativity cannot be destroyed, only transformed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

My edited posts just have stuff not removed added, I did not remove anything. I would also like to know the answer why is it okay for one but not the other.

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You seriously couldn't parse an answer to your question out of what I said there?

Playing badly is not 'forcing a standard of play'. Playing badly is not inherently toxic.

(Creating an arbitrary standard of play, which has nothing to do with the actual developer defined clear requirements of a piece of content, and then enforcing it on players and using it as a justification to be toxic) versus (playing the game badly). Equivocating these two things is pure absurdity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Lmao why do you sound like you are having a mental breakdown every single time you post on these forums. Typical hroth player I guess.

You probably should have done some research on me before making a bunch of really embarrassing assumptions about my motives.

---

Dunno man, why are you soiling your pants over people mathing out your numbers in a game and having an argument with other people?

The grass is outside hon, go touch it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

They edited their post while I was replying to it, dude. The text in the quote in my post is the entire content of their original post. If you notice, most of their posts have a 'Last edited' time on them.

People like you will characterize anyone who is bad as a 'toxic casual' or a 'leech', and then you use that characterization to justify being toxic.



This thread is quite literally full of people who mald and obsess over parses in dungeons. Are we even reading the same thread lmao

---

If they added after your quote, then sure, my bad. Still doesn't change much.

I like how you're also ignoring the fact that I said I differentiate between casual and toxic casual, when there's a very clear difference. Someone who's bad and trying? Not a toxic casual. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me and other people in the pro-parsing argument in with the likes of Firemage when there's a very clear distinction between our stances, thanks. I'd like to believe you have enough sense to know not everyone is Firemage.

The thread is quite literally full of people who mald and obsess over the idea of parses being added, on the anti-parse side, too. And most of their arguments have been very... not good, sooo...

And once again I ask, why is this an all or nothing situation? Ikara said it, I've said it, we don't necessarily need parsers in dungeons/normal trials/normal raids. Why are we arguing like this is all or nothing when the possibility of adding hypotheticals to this hypothetical argument exists?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Dunno man, why are you soiling your pants over people mathing out your numbers in a game and having an argument with other people?

The grass is outside hon, go touch it.

---

I will never not enjoy reading your posts. It's like watching a cartoon.

Cry harder. Prove my point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

If they added after your quote, then sure, my bad. Still doesn't change much.

I like how you're also ignoring the fact that I said I differentiate between casual and toxic casual, when there's a very clear difference. Someone who's bad and trying? Not a toxic casual. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me and other people in the pro-parsing argument in with the likes of Firemage when there's a very clear distinction between our stances, thanks. I'd like to believe you have enough sense to know not everyone is Firemage.

The thread is quite literally full of people who mald and obsess over the idea of parses being added, on the anti-parse side, too. And most of their arguments have been very... not good, sooo...

And once again I ask, why is this an all or nothing situation? Ikara said it, I've said it, we don't necessarily need parsers in dungeons/normal trials/normal raids. Why are we arguing like this is all or nothing when the possibility of adding hypotheticals to this hypothetical argument exists?

---

I'm honestly getting pretty confused here. People have been presenting an in-game meter like it's some kind of answer to 'toxic casuals'.

Do you encounter a lot of 'toxic casuals' refusing to carry their weight in high-end content? Wouldn't restricting the meter to high-end content only make it kind of useless for combating toxic casualism?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I will never not enjoy reading your posts. It's like watching a cartoon.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Cry harder. Prove my point.

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So...when is THIS wedding?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

You seriously couldn't parse an answer to your question out of what I said there?

Playing badly is not 'forcing a standard of play'. Playing badly is not inherently toxic.

(Creating an arbitrary standard of play, which has nothing to do with the actual developer defined clear requirements of a piece of content, and then enforcing it on players and using it as a justification to be toxic) versus (playing the game badly). Equivocating these two things is pure absurdity.

---

I had a generally idea, but did not want to make the assumption that you were the type of player finds the only standard of play that matters is if the content is cleared or not. Your logic does dictate that say a dps that is doing less damage than a healer is okay if you have enough damage to clear the content that is all that matters.

I do not think I ever said playing badly is inherently toxic, but playing poorly under the guise of whelp it is easy content what does it matter. To me personally that is all types of wrong, and following your logic they should be entitled to the time of the group because it is causal content. Sorry, no matter the content I hold people up the same standard I hold myself. I give it is my all no matter what. I am a dirty grey parser also, but I try in all forms of content, since this is not just about my own personal experience it is a shared experience with others that I happened to find myself grouped with.

As I said many time neither side is inherently toxic, it is just how they go about it. If someone is trying and or new sure I am more understanding, but if someone is just doing their 1-2-3 combo because they cannot be bothered to try in easy content to me that is toxic. Type of content should not matter, we should all respect one another enough to give it our all and try our best no matter the content. Please understand, that does not mean I think it is fair or right belittle the person, though I also do fall in the camp that getting upset over what a stranger says is kind of silly, but I understand it takes a lot to get under my skin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I'm honestly getting pretty confused here. People have been presenting an in-game meter like it's some kind of answer to 'toxic casuals'.

Do you encounter a lot of 'toxic casuals' refusing to carry their weight in high-end content? Wouldn't restricting the meter to high-end content only make it kind of useless for combating toxic casualism?

---

For the most part I think that is what he and the majority want, for the parse to be added to savage and ultimate content. I do think myself and few others are the only ones that think that is just too messy and just add it across the board and let the GM enforce the ToS.

For a group claiming this stuff doesn't promote more toxicity this thread says otherwise. If it's just numbers and pixels why tf does this matter at all?

So many of you feel it's a slight when people play bad yet I rarely ever see any of you say you have a desire to help those people get better. If bad players piss you off so much you being the "better player" should help them out. If more had a dire to use parse info to help their fellow WoLs I'd advocate for parsing more full sale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Most people know to not respond to Firemage. Then you have the ones where he lives absolutely rent free in their heads and they go unhinged the moment he walks in the door lol

---

How else am I going to kill time at work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

For a group claiming this stuff doesn't promote more toxicity this thread says otherwise. If it's just numbers and pixels why tf does this matter at all?

So many of you feel it's a slight when people play bad yet I rarely ever see any of you say you have a desire to help those people get better. If bad players piss you off so much you being the "better player" should help them out. If more had a dire to use parse info to help their fellow WoLs I'd advocate for parsing more full sale

---

Thats a double edged sword, you try to explain a mechanic to a newb, most of the time they either dont care, dont read or a white knight jumps in to protect what does not need protecting or you get the rare i want to learn it myself. Some do appreciate the help, but its rarer than you think. Thats just for mechancis, say you get the newb doing really low dps, how do you know that or bring that up when you cant talk about it? =p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

For a group claiming this stuff doesn't promote more toxicity this thread says otherwise. If it's just numbers and pixels why tf does this matter at all?

So many of you feel it's a slight when people play bad yet I rarely ever see any of you say you have a desire to help those people get better. If bad players piss you off so much you being the "better player" should help them out. If more had a dire to use parse info to help their fellow WoLs I'd advocate for parsing more full sale

---

I have tried to explain DPS rotation once for Ninja to a player while healing. They legit told me did they ask for help, let went on to tell me it does not matter as some have said content is faceroll does not matter what they do the content will still be cleared.

Since then I just do the silent removal not worth the effort anymore for me personally. More power to those that still try. Granted this one experience and it is whatever but hey they are right if they do not ask who am I to impose my words.