Hi Kiara,Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
My only argument against toggling "Red Lotus" and "Circle Slash" would be to examine how the actions are applied. As mentioned by another poster, the logic for these not being toggle-able could be based on the fact that they are executed through an intermediary object (e.g. sword)--which would restrict them as your firearm example restricts the effects of the guns. That, however, is not supported by anything we've seen in the game or lore so far as I know. Just one possible way of interpreting it and as you say above a suspension of disbelief based on how we view the magic system.
Circle Slash as an only-AOE attack is a fairly easy action to address based on how it is executed. Since Circle Slash is a spinning motion, presumably with the weapon extended, it has an area of effect (being magical or otherwise) around the wielder simply because that is the motion taken to use the attack. There are other examples of multi-target attacks by Disciples of War that are such because of how they are executed.
I won't derail the thread (though I don't think I am) any further, as I think both you and I have made our points Kiara, on this related-but-not-directly-on-topic side discussion. Thank you for your considerate discussion!
I'm hoping we hear more about this change soon.
AOE Toggle Needs to GO
Printable View
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06-24-2011, 02:37 AMZhangoSqu
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06-24-2011, 03:12 AMXedoniusAoE toggle is the Way To GO
Keep the AoE toggle, it works great! I'm sorry if some of you can't handle turning it off or on as needed, but my action bar is full enough without worrying about equiping cure, cureaga, ect. :/
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06-24-2011, 03:19 AMKiaraHi Zhango,Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu
Totally see your point. :) One point, though, is that Red Lotus and Circle Slash are the exact same Animation (same motion), but they made one a Single Target, the other is AOE. But again, it's all on the lore and rules that the developers set out for us. Thanks for the discussion. We'll see how it goes this summer. :) -
06-24-2011, 03:20 AMSeonFang^^ Agreed, I know the feeling. Not to mention, I like being able to turn pretty much all my spells into aoe or single in an instant, on the spot. Saves from getting un-needed aggro, saves time from switching it out and having to wait for it to cooldown, and of course the spells that you normally couldn't aoe, like MP Siphon, Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, Absorb spells and so on. :) Love it, Keep it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xedonius
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06-24-2011, 03:23 AMZhangoSquHah! I forgot that! :) I almost never use Red Lotus Blade, so I forgot what its animation looked like. Then again, because so many animations are the same, I would base my interpretation on the ability's description over the actual animation. Though, I can't remember the description of either abilities off hand right now. Good catch though Kiara!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
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06-24-2011, 04:38 AMKaiKatzchen
Gah this is the worst thing I have heard so far... seriously people whine because they are too lazy to press a bloody button and SE decides to take it out?
Bad SE... bad bad bad bad... what are we now going to end up with 5 different spells that do the same thing we can do with one by using the AoE toggle on/off button? Yay for even more room on my bar taken up by spells... this is silly and stupid.
How much you want to bet when/if this gets implemented and people don't like it the first people who will whine are the people who supported the AoE toggle being taken out. If so, I am just going to laugh.
SE seriously needs to stop listening to people so much and just make a bloody GAME for us to play.
I don't care if people don't agree with me because everyone is allowed their opinion. FFXIV in the begining was a good (and different) concept and a good base idea, it just needed some work and some more content and polishing of classes and balancing, but then all the Mcwhiners that like their little "box comfort zone" of reskinned games had to come and whine to get everything changed it and SE might just ruin it by listening to them. So go ahead and quote me, call me a fangirl and blah blah because you don't like my opinion.
I sick of all the people putting people down because they don't agree with others opinions.
I'm sick of the attitudes on here, and the I know better than you because I'm better than you cockiness.
I'm also sick of the 'do this now SE' attitude... and I'm sad to see the SE doesn't know how to say NO.
I've been supporting this game from day one and got a lot of crap because of it, I never thought I'd say that I was starting to get iffy or loosing hope in the game, but the more they listen to people and change silly little stuff that doesn't NEED changing the more I am loosing hope in this game... -
06-24-2011, 04:46 AMPhysici think its a bad idea as well, but i think this change was more about their overall battle content and job rebalancing plans than people not liking messing up AoE.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen
Since the battle system is changing so drastically, i hope they release way more details before the actual patch day, they essentially need to release an instruction book. -
06-24-2011, 04:56 AMCendresPeople quit freaking out, it's more like people whined and then someone checked to confirm the status of said whine. Pretty sure the dev team was going to remove AOE REGARDLESS. It fits in with their whole XI-esque job revamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen
On topic, is really that difficult to add more functionality to the UI so the toggle is more responsive instead of scrapping the whole thing? I guess it is. :S -
06-24-2011, 05:01 AMSeonFangI agree 100%. I had this game and enjoyed it from the start and always supported it. When it came to the lag issues and clunky UI, I agreed with something to complain about. When it took 10 minutes to get to another menu, okay, something to complain about. But this is just getting foolish. Lets take out the Toggle button which is a good tactical advantage and time saver, not to mention space saver on your bar, and put in a bunch of spells that do the same thing or lets take out some spells that were helpful as AoE since we cant make an actual spell from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen
I don't see a point to take out the toggle button, its helpful and works well for me and everyone else I know and play with. The only time I have had problems with the toggle button is when I lag a bit and I don't pay attention to if it turned on/off. But that is my own fault. Come on people, it's one button which can be added to (such as aggro and mp costs) later on, opposed to more points being taken up to put more spells on the bars, which will also deprive us of other spells and just more and more mess.
Let's try and help the game get polished, not try and tear down things that make it, it's own game because we want a copy of game we played a couple of months ago. -
06-24-2011, 05:06 AMLaughlynGood point, but this dosent necessary mean the new classes will requireQuote:
Originally Posted by Xedonius
so many spells, like subbing your Con/Thm spells to the new class.
From what i understand taking 1 older class to a specific level will unlock a new class.
They said nothing about spell transfer or option to subbing older spells to the new ones.
For all we know all the conj/thm spells might be completly useless compared to the new spell tiers such as Cure 3, curaga etc. -
06-24-2011, 05:07 AMHoly_Dragoon
If removing toggle means Fire | Fira types for every tier of spell. No thank you, keep the toggle. Our skill bars are full of enough spells already, not to mention it would make it a carbon copy of XI.
Now if they remove toggle, but only give Fire single target OR AoE, that is something I could get on board with. It would force you to think before casting an AoE spell in a group of mobs, or force you to strategically pick which mobs to tackle first in a party situation. Having both is to many spells to equip, forcing one or the other... I see as a possible strategic improvement.
Or you know, leave it the way it is. That way we get the best of both worlds.
To add to my point, I don't want 11 skills on my bar just for curing:
Cura
Curaga
Curaga II
Curaga III
Curaga IV
Cure I
Cure II
Cure III
Cure IV
Cure V
Cure VI -
06-24-2011, 05:09 AMKaiKatzchen100% agree... this is just getting silly to the point of ridiculous. What are people going to want to change next? It's starting to get to the point where people are just nit picking now. No wonder this game is taking so long to get fixed when you got everyone complaining about stupid little stuff like this, they are the ones making it take this long and SE as well for actually trying to fix every little complaint. Suck it up and learn how to play the game, if it changes then it changes, if it doesn't then people will get used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeonFang
No matter what happens SE cannot make everyone happy... they need to just make the game THEY want to make, get it fixed and just go from there. This is just getting beyond silly... -
06-24-2011, 05:12 AMLaughlyn
Making an actual test server for some players wouldnt be a bad idea at this point, because all we do is
speculate on things written about, we have no visual confirmation, or option to try before release
so ya ofc there will be wild debates about how things should / shouldnt be. -
06-24-2011, 05:24 AMKaiKatzchenTrue in one way, though the people who don't want the AoE toggle button gone aren't speculating. We know how it works, we know what it does, and we don't mind hitting one little button to make it work in the proper way. A lot of the posts for toggle staying are people not wanting this to change because they do like it. So that isn't speculation or debating on something we don't know how to use or don't know anything about. That's people saying they like the way the system is set up and they don't want to see it go just because some are to lazy to hit a button so they don't like it and want it gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughlyn
Now the people saying they want the toggle button gone, and saying that the new system will be better based off what little information that the Mod gave us are speculating. :) -
06-24-2011, 05:27 AMHoly_Dragoon
I think that we should start to speculate about the speculation of data that SE speculates that we enjoy speculating about.
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06-24-2011, 05:37 AMOMEGA_HACKThen don't? (if you like playing as a healing job then you'd want your setup to be this way (with status removal spells as well), if you want to be a magical damaging job then equip all your DD magic and ignore the rest, if you want to be more of a mix and match you pick a combination of what you want...Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon
Giving us EVERYTHING, defeats the purpose of the Multiplayer portion of the MMO. And I will stick by my choice, I am glad they are getting rid of the AoE toggle (not because it was annoying, not because it was confusing; just because I want more encouragement to have a strategic party experience and less button spamming) -
06-24-2011, 05:57 AMHoly_Dragoon
Yar, I get ya matey. I jus' can't stand to see the wee lil' ones suffer at the hand's o' too much t'do. Now if ye gimme the back side o' a turtle to wrap me hairs 'round like a tentacle beastie, then we be talkin' bout the same thing!
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06-24-2011, 06:01 AMArcell
Well mission failed then OMEGA_HACK, you're going to be pressing a lot more buttons, especially if you use a gamepad.
The "Strategic" portion people continually bring up could easily have been implemented with the toggle intact. Balancing MP cost/hate/power is something they're going to have to do regardless of the system implemented. The point is if you wanted to AoE you have the option, if you don't the option to turn it off is A SINGLE BUTTON PRESS AWAY. Not to mention it had a memory so if you had to avoid AoE for all your spells for a time, you only had to turn it off if it was previously on. -
06-24-2011, 07:06 AMRenshi
Just to point this out for Hell's sake:
Town you live, the Mores you find. If you don't like the Mores, then change town, it's that simple. -
06-24-2011, 07:29 AMTsugaI could argue that singling us out into the category of "DD" and "Healer" dumbs down the experience even more. As a healer, all I would be doing is focusing on healing the party, and have no other responsibilities. As a DD, all I'd be doing is mashing nukes. The way the game is now, I end up thinking about both healing and DD at the same time, and if we have a mage in the party dedicated to healing or nuking, I can support them one way or the other if they need help. It makes my job a lot more diverse, and interesting than just being forced to heal OR DD. I get to do both, and I have to consider both when I'm playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK
I went into this game thinking that I would STRICTLY be a healer, because I thought I would be forced down one path or another (coming from XI). To my surprise, it was easy to balance both healing and DD, so now I function as both, or one with the side of the other when needed. The game doesn't PIGEON-HOLE by force. I have an effing choice. That is something special that XIV has going for it that most games don't.
Anyway, to bring this back around to the point: if removing AoE Toggle pigeon-holes me, as a CON, into a category of healer, OR DD, then I hate the idea even more. Please SE, don't nerf us up our collective asses with whatever you're planning. -
06-24-2011, 07:31 AMKaiKatzchenAgreed, but I feel like even that is being taken away from us now... but +1! I like your post a lot. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
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06-24-2011, 07:32 AMTerabyt3
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06-24-2011, 08:35 AMRowyneAs one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK
With the introduction of jobs and the release of 1.18 being delayed, I get the feeling that the devs may be completely rewriting the CON and THM spellbooks. It won't just be every spell we have now split into single/AoE versions. I'm thinking unique names with more single-target only, and just a few AoE's. I would much prefer this over what we have now.
If this is what they have in mind, keeping the toggle would have made no sense. -
06-24-2011, 08:51 AMTsugaAgain, this is an issue of MP cost/hate/damage spread balancing, and not an issue with the toggle itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
If spells cost more to AoE, then people wouldn't AoE cure when unnecessary. If spells drew in more hate when in AoE, then we DEFINITELY wouldn't be AoE curing all of the time (because we'd be dead). If the amount healed were decreased, then AoE curing would only be useful if the mob casts an AoE attack/spell, or special situations.
As for AoE attack, the same could be applied, but I think people are generally smarter about using AoE spells, considering they don't want to aggro the 5 coblyns that are surrounding their leve targets (though when people get stupid and don't toggle it off, then die, they come here and whine in this thread).
You still make no points for why TOGGLE is the cause of this issue, or how removing it would change anything. It would carry over into AoE specific spells just the same. -
06-24-2011, 08:52 AMKaiKatzchenSo are you're saying that it's makes people lazy to use the AoE on/off button and switching when needed depending on the circumstances of the fight? Yet you said your very first post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
Which is basically saying that you don't like the AoE because you feel its unnecessary to take one little extra step to hit said button? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Its lazy if people want to use it, but its not lazy if people think it is inconvenient to take the extra step to use it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
Also there is a time to use AoE and a time to not use AoE depending on the circumstances, taking away toggle and adding in extra spells to do the same thing that toggle does will not change this. If people can't use the toggle and learn when and when not to use AoE, people will have to learn it with their spells anyway. Now people will just have to add more spells and equip said spells and make sure they are hitting the right spell etc... instead of hitting one little simple button. -
06-24-2011, 08:58 AMEdenArchangelI agree with Rowyne on so many things it seems. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
The AoE toggle for every spell is cheap -- heal everyone or nuke everything for the same mp and no explosive hate spike.
The extra on/off with the Z button is the least of my issues. -
06-24-2011, 09:02 AMRowyneWhat if there is a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no single-target counterpart?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen
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06-24-2011, 09:03 AMTsugaRefer to my post in response to Rowyne to see why your point is moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenArchangel
Then this is how cure would work? I don't see what you're getting at. If cure is an AoE spell, then it's an AoE spell. It doesn't hurt anybody. It makes it so there's no point in having a healing focused CON, which is great, because it would encourage multitasking as a CON, and focus healing as a WHM (which would probably get buffs/extra spells to make it better specialized). CON functions just fine when it isn't being pigeon-holed into a healing/DD role, and auto-AoEing cure would only serve to support it. Same goes for THM and Sacrifice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
With the way spells are balanced now it makes sense to keep Cure AoE if all you're doing is supporting, however if you keep AoE toggled when you're playing jack of all trades CON, you're going to be in a lot of trouble when you start pulling an entire room of mobs in the Mines. The only people that do this aren't paying attention to what they're doing, and removing toggle would not change that. They'd still end up hitting the wrong macros/actions, because they're inattentive. Again, not a problem with the toggle, but a problem with the player, and a problem with spell balance (which is all you guys seem to go on about, as if it were AoE toggle's fault that MP balance and hate are messed up).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
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06-24-2011, 09:28 AMKaiKatzchenI don't feel that it creates redundancy and frustration. I believe that creating a spell that can be both single target and AoE is very smart. A player has less spells that they have to deal with, less ability's that they have to scroll though looking for said spells and less items to try and fit on their bar seeing that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
Cure = AoE and Single target = 1 slot = more space for additional abilities.
Cure and Curega = 2 slots - less space for additional abilities.
Frustration and redundancy to me is looking at my spell list and seeing 20 fire spells because half are single and half are -ga spells for AoE.
Also, I look for the most efficient route that will help my group the best. Keeping AoE on at all times is silly because it only causes problems especially if other mobs are around, and it helps no one because if used improperly it only causes more mobs for the rest of your party and could kill them. AoE should only be used when it is necessary or there are already multi-mobs involved in said fight or if curing a party.
Anyway what honestly is the difference between having one spell that you can toggle by pressing a button or having multi-spells because one has to be single attack and AoE attack. And actually now that I think about it.. why would someone want to get rid of toggle in favor of such a system due to the fact that they hate button mashing? Won't having more spells to have to deal with to get the same effect that the current system has equal more button mashing in the end?
It seems to me that people who just turn on AoE and leave it on because they don't want to hit a button don't know how to properly play using said button... or are just lazy. If that is the issue, that that is not the problem of the people who enjoy and know how to use the toggle function properly.
But it seems that ya'll got your way, as I said, if it ends up even worse I'll just laugh if ya'll start complaining about how you hate the new system because of whatever reason people decide to come up with... and I know someone is gonna make some kinda thread about it when it comes out. -
06-24-2011, 10:30 AMStudyGuy
A simple rebalanced enmity system based on AoE/Single and variable spell costs dependent on which version you use would nip this in but bud for me. I personally don't see the toggle as clunky in the slightest for people, but then again... that is my opinion.
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06-24-2011, 10:02 PMIveraIvalice
im gonna just say that everyone should stop waisting their time on this stupid idea of an issue. there is no reason to change it because a handful of people cant click an extra button or set a macro. and to try to convince them is dumb, just leave this thread and get on to actual issues that could improve the game to be fixed. end of discussion
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06-24-2011, 10:29 PMKailea_Nagisa
People against AOE toggle seem to have many problems with their argument......
lazzy?
ok so hitting an extra button is lazy?
costs the same.
yes right now it costs the same MP and gives the same hate and power, but this is what SE should have changed instead of removing AOE toggle.
keep having to press the button.
no you dont, you only have to press the toggle button when you want to switch from on/off if you want to cast 10 single target spells in a row, then there is no need to touch the button, same with AOE.
It would have made more sense if SE had changed the power/hate/MP values of the spells if used with AOE toggle on, but instead they listen to the crazy people who have no clue what in the world they are talking about, and remove it completely. -
06-24-2011, 11:02 PMArcellExcept you don't have to hit it every time you cast a spell, only every time you want to turn AoE on or off which makes you look even lazier. You don't want to occasionally hit a button to toggle AoE. Is that not lazy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
A good player won't AoE everything anyway, they will do so where there is need.
Also as has been said over and over again the issue of MP cost/hate/potency has nothing to do with the actual toggle and could be tweaked without the removal of the toggle. This thread was specifically asking for the removal of toggle alone, not for MP cost/hate/potency mechanics. -
06-24-2011, 11:11 PMTirionCrey"Ending with either a number or a -ga" was related to BOTH Single AND AoE Spells...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuga
This doesn't change the fact that spells always were split between single target and group target spells in all FFs. With XIV they tried it with an AoE toggle thats usable for ALL spells. Sorry...this is not gonna work...there will NEVER be balance on spells if ALL spells can either be cast single, or AoE, whenever you feel like it. Plus having a set spell for Single and AoE targets will introduce more tactic to the game as well once the battle system is fixed. Imagine having a group of enemies charging at you...now you can either Sleep one(SleepI/II), Sleep all(SleepgaI/II), Paralyze one, Slow one etc or just try to fight them all together. This ADDS to the actual combat involvement if spells are strictly split between single and AoE, cause then you actually have to THINK and decide on a case by case basis what spell you're gonna use instead of just "oh, lots of enemies*click AoE toggle on*, "oh, single enemy*click AoE toggle off*...problem solved...
AoE toggle is nothing unique, adds NOTHING to combat, it just limits spells and mages in all possible ways you can imagine plus it causes balance issues that can't be just fixed by adjusting the spell, cause adjusting the spell will affect Single and AoE version of it...
SEs choice to get rid of the AoE toggle is actually a GOOD thing for all mages. That way playing a mage class actually involves thinking and making decisions(right AND wrong ones), instead of just AoE on/off, spam spells...where wrong decisions are not possible... -
06-24-2011, 11:26 PMFelisYou don't need to confirm the toogle with every spell. Only when you turn aoe on or off (with the key Z). What you need to confirm with every spell is your sub target (with the key Return), what you still need without the toogle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
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06-24-2011, 11:34 PMTirionCrey
Double Post, but this needs to be said in a different post, or it would get overlooked prolly.
WHY are people so ignorant to think tthey will have TWENTY spells of the same kind(ranging from 1-10 for both Single and AoE)
Do you guys actually THINK before making that argument? So...if you got...
Cure I
Cure II
Cure II
Cure IV
Cure V
Curaga I
Curaga II
Curaga III
Curaga IV
Curaga V
Are you really that stupid to think having AAALLLLLLL of those spells is a necessity? You will learn those spells at different rank ranges to accomodate the amount of healing needed in that rank range. If you're R50 and only heal for endgame, its gonna be most likely the case that you will have the 2 highest Tiers of those spells on your bar ONLY and nothing else.
The only reason I WANT AoE toggle to go away is cause it will force people to actually MAKE DECISIONS! Balancing MP use/hate/dmg blah blah around one and the same spell for either Single or AoE is just unneccesarry BS. Using Thunder IV on a mob, or Thundaga IV on a group actually forces you to make a decision. ITS EITHER OR! And the fact that the amount of spells you can have actively on your bar might be more limited due to the larger amount of spells(Single and AoE Versions) even FURTHER ADDS to that decisions. I don't know what BS people are making up right now, but you can literally use 80% of ALL GOOD SPELLS from BOTH CON/THM on one R50 Mage class right now...so what's the point in that?
You are all talking of uniqueness and Bullshit, but at the same time the people supporting the AoE toggle destroy the uniqueness of both CON and THM with it. Right now EVERYONE chooses THM>CON...and why? Cause his Conal AoE is like ten times superior to CONs Circular AoE who seems to hit a 3 feet radius...
Well what if they change it to where CON ONLY has AoE cure spells(plus Singles), while THM has ONLY Single Heal Spells only(but due to the Regen effect they are more effective for longer battles)
Getting rid of the AoE toggle gives SE the possibility of actually balancing THM and CON as to where they are both gonna be unique in a way you won't take one over the other if they are both needed to get the most out of it.
PS: People who claim CON is still good and THM doesn't pound it into the ground have no clue what they are talking about. All mages who got both CON and THM to 50 take THM over CON without even thinking about CON for a second...
But hey...just keep going with AoE toggle...there are only 2 Mage classes anyway here, so why not just get rid of CON and give all his spells to THM as an addition...cause there obviously is no reason for CON to exist while THM can do everything CON does, just ten times better! -
06-24-2011, 11:41 PMFelis
SE could do it like this:
Cure (Single) - learned with Rank 8
Cura (AOE) - learned with Rank 30
Curaga (Single) - learned with Rank 50
Curaja (AOE) - learned with Rank 75 (not implemented)
Because in the FF games Cura is Cure 2, Curaga is Cure 3 and Curaja is Cure 4 ^^
Go and play all the FF games before FF XQuote:
Originally Posted by TirionCrey
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06-24-2011, 11:56 PMZhangoSquThey use 20 spells (10 Single, 10 AoE) as an exaggerative point, even with only Thunder IV and Thundaga IV your spells still cost more in terms of space on the hot bar because you actually need to consume 2 slots. If we don't get an improved action bar, you're going to have less option for a diverse character build.Quote:
Originally Posted by TirionCrey
Again, this could be done leaving the AoE toggle in place and just updating it from a simple "green button" to one that shows you casting Cure vs. Cura results in: different MP cost, different enmity generation, different cool down time, etc. Removing AoE toggle does not directly adjust the MP cost, hate, and damage issues. These issues have to be addressed after the toggle button is removed--and could just as easily be addressed leaving a toggle functionality in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by TirionCrey
The toggle button also forces you to make a decision. Its still "either or"--you just only have one action you have to click and then you make the decision rather than the decision being made for you automatically based on which action you click. There is no difference in the actual functionality of a toggle switch vs. two separate actions on the hot bar, only one (toggle being left in place) allows for a more efficient use of your hot bar.Quote:
Originally Posted by TirionCrey
Again this can still be done with the toggle intact. It requires some changes to the data objects and who can use what as AoE--but Disciples of War already have a carte blanche "no AoE" flag set on them. This flag could be shifted to a matrix that specifies on a per-class-per-spell basis who can use AoE and who can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by TirionCrey
The arguments for removing AoE toggle could still be addressed while keeping the feature. Its a usability issue as it is right now (1.17c), not a game mechanic issue. This, of course, seems to be changing along with battle and class modifications that are occurring this summer beginning with patch 1.18; so until 1.18 comes out we won't know whether the removal of the toggle was a good decision or not.
@Bayohne (or any other Communit Rep): I asked earlier in a post in the 40's--but could we get some explicit examples on how this feature change is going to affect us with damage, buff, debuff, and curative magic some time? I think it would help to clarify the situation and remove speculation and apprehension regarding this change! -
06-24-2011, 11:59 PMDeadRiser
I'm one of the few that are happy they are doing this. I find it boring to spam AoE cure all the time. It just makes mages dulla and boring, and as of now, there really isn't a side effect to abusing AoE aside from hate because you never run out of mp. Also makes it too easy when you can AoE heal every 2 seconds
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06-25-2011, 12:05 AMZhangoSquHow is removing the toggle and making AoE spells and single-target spells separate actions even going to resolve this issue of "I find it boring to spam AoE cure all the time"? If I have an AoE cure I'm still going to favor that in a party situation over single. Its no different than leaving the toggle on.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadRiser
The issue isn't AoE vs. Single Target its the fact that the application of AoE vs. Single Target has the same requirements and effects. That is what needs to be changed; and as I've said time-and-time again any changes to enmity, MP cost, cool down, etc. could be achieve while leaving the toggle in place. It may not be a trivial change, depending on what the code structure looks like, but it is possible.