#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Paine_Blackstar

2- Her feedback is based on limited experience. Healers and tanks need to be this powerful for hard content and no healer strike will prevent this.

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Except that is just blatantly not true. If you go look at the latest ultimate clears, you know the hardest content in the game, you will find that the healers STILL use 70%+ of their GCDs on damage. Even on the really low ranked clears.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Except that is just blatantly not true. If you go look at the latest ultimate clears, you know the hardest content in the game, you will find that the healers STILL use 70%+ of their GCDs on damage. Even on the really low ranked clears.

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(Before you ask no I’m not good enough to do it myself and I respect the hell out of them for it)

The fact that it’s even mathematically possible to clear TOP without healers is blatant proof that healer kits aren’t being tested. If your kit can put out 75k HPS and the content is only asking for like 10,000 then no your kit isn’t being challenged

SE has never cared about healers and I feel bad for all the healer mains in the game.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

It's literally not..you can Google it. Multiple sources will confirm to you that ratiod == a reply that has more likes than the post it is replying to.

https://www.capitalfm.com/internet/r...y%20been%20%22

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You can Google it right?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-ratio-ratioed

https://www.dataforprogress.org/the-ratio-richter-scale

https://www.howtogeek.com/721651/wha...-social-media/

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

my apologies for not noticing this earlier but...

(not singling you out by the way) how can we assume that some who has played through 80 and now 90 levels is going to be an "overwhelmed newbie". I mean, I am all for accessibility etc but at what point do people stop being "new" and actually can be reasonably expect to know how to play? right now SE keeps lowering the skill floor, though its currently a skill sub basement, because the devs seem to treat all current content like it should be accessible to a level 10 understanding player.

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I agree with you, believe me. I'm also of the opinion that lvl 90 players should no longer be treated with kid gloves because they have had over a hundred hours to learn their jobs. It's just that I see the argument that we need to ensure casual players can do the MSQ really often. And if Hydaelyn Normal was a problem, then idk anymore.

Pesonally, I'm of the opinion that the game should slowly ramp up in difficulty while offering support for players to improve at their jobs. Not knowing the basics by 80+ is stupid. I don't mind that people want to treat FFXIV as a single player game but, even on easy mode, even most single player RPGs I've encountered required at least some level of competency to get through.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

> Citation Needed

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There are indeed some snarky comments in some of the threads but I honestly fail to see how different that is from Striker's usual white knighting and being contrarian when there's any negative feedback.

I also enjoy how this thread grows but also sometimes I see it lose pages from peoples excessive snarkiness getting removed.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You can Google it right?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-ratio-ratioed

https://www.dataforprogress.org/the-ratio-richter-scale

https://www.howtogeek.com/721651/wha...-social-media/

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1. None of the sources in know your meme are using the term "ratio'd". It's a very specific and modern term used commonly on x.com and it has nothing to do with replies. I already sourced it with a link.

2. Same issue

3. Have nothing to do with x.com

The user said "that's the definition of being ratio'd". Sorry but take your L.

If you go to x.com right now and search the word, numerous examples will come up showing that people are talking about tweets where the reply has more likes than the tweet it is responding to.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

1. None of the sources in know your meme are using the term "ratio'd". It's a very specific and modern term used commonly on x.com and it has nothing to do with replies. I already sourced it with a link.

2. Same issue

3. Have nothing to do with x.com

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1. The Ratio or Ratioed refers to an unofficial Twitter law which states that if the amount of replies to a tweet greatly outnumbers the number of retweets and likes, then the tweet is bad.

2. One simple, popular way to measure the quality of a tweet is its Ratio -- the number of replies divided by the number of favorites (or, in the ever fluid language of Twitter, likes) it receives.

3. The term "ratio" was likely coined around 2017, although its exact origin is unknown. However, one of the big reasons it took off was an article from Esquire discussing the importance of "The Ratio" on Twitter.

I don't know if you're just trying to be deliberately obtuse or what but nobody who actually frequents Twitter on a regular basis calls it X.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

1. The Ratio or Ratioed refers to an unofficial Twitter law which states that if the amount of replies to a tweet greatly outnumbers the number of retweets and likes, then the tweet is bad.

2. One simple, popular way to measure the quality of a tweet is its Ratio -- the number of replies divided by the number of favorites (or, in the ever fluid language of Twitter, likes) it receives.

3. The term "ratio" was likely coined around 2017, although its exact origin is unknown. However, one of the big reasons it took off was an article from Esquire discussing the importance of "The Ratio" on Twitter.

I don't know if you're just trying to be deliberately obtuse or what but nobody who actually frequents Twitter on a regular basis calls it X.

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The user said "ratio'd" it's specific slang and you're wrong.

My original post about it had over 10 likes last time I checked. Call me when yours does. It's common knowledge. I don't like to be dismissive but you're arguing something you have no idea about.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...atio%E2%80%99d

It is not "ratio" nor "ratioed"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6494993

Actually it has 24. So yeah I'm not sure what to tell you. Just for posterity here is the term he used:

[

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Originally Posted by OranKells

about 350 likes on the main post.
about 4750 posts.

that feels like the definition of being ratio'd if I ever saw one.

There are legitimate criticism about healing in this game but this.... whatever this is ain't it guys.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

There's quite a few who have decided they can't stand that there's even one single positive thread about healing on the forums, and have felt the need to invade it and make passive-aggressive and snarky comments about people enjoying healing. I'd definitely see that as griefing.

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It’s ironic that you always see it as your sacred duty to be the representative of the silent majority and bring “majority in game vs minority forum” argument to Every. Single. Thread made with criticism and discussion in mind.

You yourself fit your definition of griefing rather perfectly

What happend to the likes on OP post, it was 465 likes and now its 355

Sign that supporters of the strike are walking back on what they were going to do?

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

[…]Pesonally, I'm of the opinion that the game should slowly ramp up in difficulty while offering support for players to improve at their jobs. Not knowing the basics by 80+ is stupid. I don't mind that people want to treat FFXIV as a single player game but, even on easy mode, even most single player RPGs I've encountered required at least some level of competency to get through.

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It’s a conundrum, yeah. It’s why I believe having more fail states than we currently have at the moment would’ve been healthier—by that I mean, introduce them gradually. Let players build that resilience against frustration. It’s good for them as a player in long run. Let them grow; let them learn; let them fail; let them relearn, they’ll come out better.

Lack of such resilience compounded by how watered down the jobs are made us focus incessantly i.e. over minor 1-3 dps losses because.. what else there left to focus on? Everything becomes black & white. Encounter design in return cannot account for the in-between, they just straight up become a one shotting galore.

I'll be striking by playing WHM but without any heals on my hotbar. No one can blame me for playing my three button DPS class like SE intended to.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

What happend to the likes on OP post, it was 465 likes and now its 355

Sign that supporters of the strike are walking back on what they were going to do?

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Considering your previous interactions on this thread was rather... interesting, to say the least, I am greatly suspicious of the intent of this reply. For someone who believed that the movement will not prosper and that devs will simply ignore, you have paid more attention to the number of likes this thread has garnered. Truly interesting for someone such as myself who supports the strike but didn't bother tracking the number of likes.

I’ve long since stopped looking at how many likes are on Gemina’s post (hell I don’t know if I have actually liked it myself) for me the strike has already achieved everything I want it to achieve

If this much attention ends up achieving nothing I can be safe in the knowledge that me soapboxing in the healer forums truly is pointless so I can finally abandon this trash fire of a role without feeling bad about it

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Originally Posted by rawker

Considering your previous interactions on this thread was rather... interesting, to say the least, I am greatly suspicious of the intent of this reply. For someone who believed that the movement will not prosper and that devs will simply ignore, you have paid more attention to the number of likes this thread has garnered. Truly interesting for someone such as myself who supports the strike but didn't bother tracking the number of likes.

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Did the post even get over 400+ likes, or is it people misconstruing between OP upvote count vs thread page count?

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Did the post even get over 400+ likes, or is it people misconstruing between OP upvote count vs thread page count?

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I am more inclined to think that it's the latter. People will do whatever it takes to stir the pot.

Oi, guy of the #healerstrike list.
I just discovered this list. I’m a DRK main, not a lancer. How was I suppose to do savages and ult as a LNC? O.o

Am also DRG main…at least put DRG!!
I appreciate thank you.

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Originally Posted by Venarius

I'll be striking by playing WHM but without any heals on my hotbar. No one can blame me for playing my three button DPS class like SE intended to.

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""Yoshida: So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.""


From Yoshi's statement from before EW release you should be taking off your DPS skills, as DPS is not what SE indended.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

Oi, guy of the #healerstrike list.
I just discovered this list. I’m a DRK main, not a lancer. How was I suppose to do savages and ult as a LNC? O.o

Am also DRG main…at least put DRG!!
I appreciate thank you.

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They probably just copy+pasted what your Forum profile sais your role is, which is "Lancer Lv 90"

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Originally Posted by Venarius

I'll be striking by playing WHM but without any heals on my hotbar. No one can blame me for playing my three button DPS class like SE intended to.

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See, this is where I personally draw the line.

a) It is considered as an act of griefing and is against the ToS. But hey, if you want to have the GMs knocking around an expansion launch, then you do you.
b) It is more than likely only going to annoy players that you are playing with, and ruin their experience. At this point anyone able to do anything about it is not going to care about the strike, but at pretty blatant acts of griefing.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

""Yoshida: So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.""


From Yoshi's statement from before EW release you should be taking off your DPS skills, as DPS is not what SE indended.

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I love how hilariously out of touch this is

The current nuke being like 450 potency in DPS terms per hit (so a blatantly easy way to do like 60% of a DPS damage) doesn’t stop any of the current bad healers from not doing DPS (and it’s even worse in JP because it’s just accepted as “if they don’t want to do damage it creates more conflict to force them to do damage than to just finish the run”)

Who are these mythical people that square seems to be designing the healers around

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Originally Posted by rawker

Considering your previous interactions on this thread was rather... interesting, to say the least, I am greatly suspicious of the intent of this reply. For someone who believed that the movement will not prosper and that devs will simply ignore, you have paid more attention to the number of likes this thread has garnered. Truly interesting for someone such as myself who supports the strike but didn't bother tracking the number of likes.

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A quick forum search, sorted by post date. The last post is from yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

184 likes and counting!

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

228 likes and counting!

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

281 and counting!

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Originally Posted by Local_Custard

one away from 300 likes too

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

331 likes

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Originally Posted by OranKells

about 350 likes on the main post.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It’s a conundrum, yeah. It’s why I believe having more fail states than we currently have at the moment would’ve been healthier—by that I mean, introduce them gradually. Let players build that resilience against frustration. It’s good for them as a player in long run. Let them grow; let them learn; let them fail; let them relearn, they’ll come out better.

Lack of such resilience compounded by how watered down the jobs are made us focus incessantly i.e. over minor 1-3 dps losses because.. what else there left to focus on? Everything becomes black & white. Encounter design in return cannot account for the in-between, they just straight up become a one shotting galore.

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I'd honestly prefer a game where players have personal fail states again, such as tanks wiping the group by failing to control aggro or mitigate damage, healers wiping the group by failing to heal or cleanse, DPS wiping the group by slacking too hard on damage.

That's much preferable to the current state of the game where body checks mean one weak link is sufficient to waste the time of 7 other people. We could at least carry weak links back then, now a single weak link blows everyone up with no hope of recovery.

So, if JP healers are not pressured to DPS, how are they passing dps checks?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I love how hilariously out of touch this is

The current nuke being like 450 potency in DPS terms per hit (so a blatantly easy way to do like 60% of a DPS damage) doesn’t stop any of the current bad healers from not doing DPS (and it’s even worse in JP because it’s just accepted as “if they don’t want to do damage it creates more conflict to force them to do damage than to just finish the run”)

Who are these mythical people that square seems to be designing the healers around

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Back in the days you'd be surprised how often healers in duties didn't press their DPS buttons.
"I'm playing a healer, not a DPS. You don't pay my sub."
And as Yoshi's statement, there were those that became aggressive over it.

And it's not about how easy or not a Healer can do damage, it's the amount of buttons I guess.
If a healer had a dps rotation maybe those " healers that might feel pressured" wouldn't know if they had to focus on that rotation instead of hitting a heal when needed.
Idunno, but this is what Yoshi said during the interniew 2021.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

So, if JP healers are not pressured to DPS, how are they passing dps checks?

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That was in reference to casual content

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Back in the days you'd be surprised how often healers in duties didn't press their DPS buttons.
"I'm playing a healer, not a DPS. You don't pay my sub."
And as Yoshi's statement, there were those that became aggressive over it.

And it's not about how easy or not a Healer can do damage, it's the amount of buttons I guess.
If a healer had a dps rotation maybe those " healers that might feel pressured" wouldn't know if they had to focus on that rotation instead of hitting a heal when needed.
Idunno, but this is what Yoshi said during the interniew 2021.

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I know how some people complained in the old days about doing DPS but that was also strongly how clunky cleric stance was

The other point I mean that just creates the opposite problem, we also have glare mages right now with 1 button

You can’t out design peoples desire to play classes wrong

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Back in the days you'd be surprised how often healers in duties didn't press their DPS buttons.

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I was the opposite.. I kept forgetting to turn on Cleric Stance to reapply my DoTs. lols

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That was in reference to casual content



I know how some people complained in the old days about doing DPS but that was also strongly how clunky cleric stance was

The other point I mean that just creates the opposite problem, we also have glare mages right now with 1 button

You can’t out design peoples desire to play classes wrong

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Mm.. In that statement when he mentioned the "exhilaration from doing really good heal work."
But they "forgot" to include a system that allows the healer more opportunities to heal.
The combat is still slow and the incoming damage low.
And almost every attack except the Auto-Attack monsters do are marked out, leaving less to heal as people will simply move away from said areas.

I think enemies either needs to have their damage output tuned up (overworld mobs can stay, so everyone can do quests and whatever).
And/or add more unavoidable damage/mechanics which would result in the healer having more to heal.
And ofc tune down the tanks self sustain.
I think tanks still need them, but not as a "I can survive on this" but a "Hurry up, I can't last much longer".

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

So, if JP healers are not pressured to DPS, how are they passing dps checks?

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By having DPS that are better at dealing damage and staying alive than NA and EU players, I would guess. It feels like a lot of players don't understand just how badly Weakness and Brink of Death affects their damage. If that damage is missing, then it needs to get made up from somewhere and that's generally going to mean the healers.

I assume there are JP players that use the same online tool that many NA and EU players use. Check numbers there. Is JP healer damage output noticeably lower on average compared to NA and EU healers?

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

And it's not about how easy or not a Healer can do damage, it's the amount of buttons I guess.
If a healer had a dps rotation maybe those " healers that might feel pressured" wouldn't know if they had to focus on that rotation instead of hitting a heal when needed.
Idunno, but this is what Yoshi said during the interniew 2021.

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I really don't understand this argument that any extra addition to the damage kit would suddenly make healers forget what role they queued for.

If they're unable to find the right time to use the new things, no one's forcing them to, they can still just DoT up and spam their filler to clear any regular content.

Also, if a healer is presented with the choice of "Heal or someone dies" or "Press Glare and Raise afterwards", the latter is very clearly the wrong choice and they should be regarded as a bad healer for picking it.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can’t out design peoples desire to play classes wrong

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As long as there's a way to 'screw up' playing your Job, someone WILL screw up playing the Job. Designing around the lowest common denominator, to try and make it impossible for them to 'fail', is an exercise in futility. If we had one of the healers lose their DOT, so it's literally just one button over and over with nothing else (eg SCH has only Broil, no Bio, no Energy Drain, just broil), there will be players that don't press that button. If we have the reverse, where the Healer only has to put up a DOT once per 30s, and can AFK for the rest of the time (because they don't have a Glare/Broil/etc to use), there will be players who don't refresh the DOT on time. If we had Mortal Flame, a DOT that doesn't have a duration, and just keeps on ticking until the enemy is dead, you guessed it, there will be some players who don't press it, or don't even put it on their hotbars (because 'they are a healer they're not there to do damage')

The number of places where 'the healer shouldn't DPS, they should heal' is true, compared to 'the healer can contribute to damage too', is a serious minority. As games have evolved, the role has evolved and people have realized, both players and devs, that just healing is damn boring when you're in content that doesn't push your kit to the max, and so 'deal damage in downtime' was created to give the role something to occupy that dead-time. 'Healers should only heal' sounds more like a bad habit that people got into in an old version of WOW (or an acceptable habit for Cataclysm, but it is on record as being 'a badly designed healing paradigm' due to encounter and class design teams not communicating). For the true 'healers should only heal' experience, I guess Cataclysm Classic came out recently, so people could go try that and see what 'healers should only heal' results in

SE should design gameplay loops that incentivize dealing damage as a Healer, such as 'by dealing damage, you get access to more healing tools'. Even stuff as simple as 'for every Glare you cast, the cooldown on Tetragrammaton is reduced by 1 second'. It's weird to me that we have 'healing gives you damage' with Misery, but not 'damage gives you healing'. The closest thing I guess is 'Energy Drain gives Faerie Gauge which can then be used on Fey Union' but it feels so 'indirect' that it doesn't really register (plus the healing moves that cost AF grant the same gauge, so it's more a case of 'spending Aetherflow grants Faerie Gauge')

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I really don't understand this argument that any extra addition to the damage kit would suddenly make healers forget what role they queued for.

If they're unable to find the right time to use the new things, no one's forcing them to, they can still just DoT up and spam their filler to clear any regular content.

Also, if a healer is presented with the choice of "Heal or someone dies" or "Press Glare and Raise afterwards", the latter is very clearly the wrong choice and they should be regarded as a bad healer for picking it.

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Honestly, I don't either.
I'm simply trying to put myself in Yoshi and the teams position as of why they might've decidied on it.
Personally I would like to see a steady curve of difficulty through out the leveling journey.
People learn to improve when being faced with progressively more challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

By having DPS that are better at dealing damage and staying alive than NA and EU players, I would guess. It feels like a lot of players don't understand just how badly Weakness and Brink of Death affects their damage. If that damage is missing, then it needs to get made up from somewhere and that's generally going to mean the healers.

I assume there are JP players that use the same online tool that many NA and EU players use. Check numbers there. Is JP healer damage output noticeably lower on average compared to NA and EU healers?

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There's nothing to note about the disparity between JP and non-JP players when it comes to DPS roles, they perform relatively equally. I haven't looked into the disparity with healer in particular, but all I can say is; if the healers don't do any damage, they're not clearing the tier, E8S was impossible without healers contributing significantly in the first week, and considering how tough P8S was before the nerf, it was likely true there too. JP healers still have to do DPS, at the very least in non-casual content.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

See, this is where I personally draw the line.

a) It is considered as an act of griefing and is against the ToS. But hey, if you want to have the GMs knocking around an expansion launch, then you do you.

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Lmao. What are they gonna do about it? Ban someone for playing "bad"? Don't be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Venarius

Lmao. What are they gonna do about it? Ban someone for playing "bad"? Don't be ridiculous.

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refusing to heal is 100% against tos

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

refusing to heal is 100% against tos

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It's not like they know. If an DPS dies, well - how unfortunate. Tragic even.

You guys take yourself way too serious. ;)

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Originally Posted by Venarius

It's not like they know. If an DPS dies, well - how unfortunate. Tragic even.

You guys take yourself way too serious. ;)

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Cant the GM look at the logs and see what skills the players have used?

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Cant the GM look at the logs and see what skills the players have used?

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They ask for name, server, duty/location and time so they can access the data collected during that, so yeah, probably.