New NMs

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Originally Posted by Visch

I don't understand how it's so hard to have content for both. XI seemed to handle it better later on.

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That’s BS. You simply assume that everyone who does not share your 24H NM idea is a casual lite gamer?
stupid 24h pops is not the only form of content

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Originally Posted by Visch

I don't understand how it's so hard to have content for both. XI seemed to handle it better later on.

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Because the game LACKS content, and as such they need to focus on adding more that can be enjoyed by *everyone*. Not just by the self-elected hardcore that think that the most exciting part of the game should be standing in place and waiting for hours and then seeing who can provoke first, followed by an entirely unchallenging fight.

The idea of having content for both honestly isnt hard, ff11 had that believe it or not, tones of content for casuals.

The problem is when casuals think they should have the best gear in the game and have access to every hard-core event/gear, the argument is never-ending.

Casuals like to say they want event that everyone can do with no real limitations like claiming, but how many casuals really did Ein or Salvage, given some did, but not many.

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Originally Posted by Randis

That’s BS. You simply assume that everyone who does not share your 24H NM idea is a casual lite gamer?
stupid 24h pops is not the only form of content

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If they do not try the hardest they can to be the best they can be and actually invest time into the game, then yes I concider them a casual player. What do you consider a casual player? dare I ask.

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Originally Posted by Randis

That’s BS. You simply assume that everyone who does not share your 24H NM idea is a casual lite gamer?
stupid 24h pops is not the only form of content

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Are you being serious? Or are you still going to fail troll?

No one is saying that there shouldn't be instanced stuff as well.

please elaborate what would make a NM that pops every 24 h hardcore?

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Originally Posted by Visch

I don't understand how it's so hard to have content for both. XI seemed to handle it better later on.

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You have a point, by the time FF11 had found a balance the game was already 6-7 years old and there was so much content already, FF14 is the complete opposite.

SE will obvious make content for which ever player base is biggest, which is the main reason for the players polls no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Moth

If they do not try the hardest they can to be the best they can be and actually invest time into the game, then yes I concider them a casual player. What do you consider a casual player? dare I ask.

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People not on Wutai.

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Originally Posted by Randis

please elaborate what would make a NM that pops every 24 h hardcore?

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Limited spawns, limited drops for everyone on the server which increases rarity of its drops.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You have a point, by the time FF11 had found a balance the game was already 6-7 years old and there was so much content already, FF14 is the complete opposite.

SE will obvious make content for which ever player base is biggest, which is the main reason for the players polls no doubt.

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Stuff like the aggro icon and now showing the mobs levels and if it links is just becoming a little too much. If the new NM have a spawn system similar to the previous ones it will most likely become the norm.

Keep in mind the weakest simplest level 10 NMs in XI never spawned twice every hour.

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Originally Posted by Goshzilla

People not on Wutai.

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No, just people not in Perfection :o

Its every 21-24, and its still not the fact that it can spawn every 21-24hrs, its keeping the gear rare, it needs to be fairly hard to kill, not pop that often, and low drop-rates on really good drops, if the whole server can get the item in a month its not worth puting in the game.

I could just imagine having the HNM's in 11 at 1hr respawns.

[Fafnir just dies]
/l (Leader) well... everyone but you in ls has ridill so you can lot it.
/l (Random guy) well... my inv is full... should i drop a rainbow cloth for it?
/l (Leader) na.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

What is wrong with making content that allow normal player to make a tiny step towards their goal each time they play? like collecting special coins. This will be the best of both worlds, where elites can get their item in like 1month, whereas normal player might take years to get, but at least we will eventually get there.

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That's what they don't want though. They don't want anyone who doesn't play 8+ hours a day to get the super uber leet gear they spent any time getting.

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Originally Posted by Moth

No, just people not in Perfection :o

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Don't forget, you offered to invite me to your LS at one point! ^_^

I believe a casual player is defined more by what they do while they're in-game rather than how much time they spend playing. Plants vs. Zombies is considered a "casual" game, yet most people I know who play it do so for hours upon hours.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

The idea of having content for both honestly isnt hard, ff11 had that believe it or not, tones of content for casuals.

The problem is when casuals think they should have the best gear in the game and have access to every hard-core event/gear, the argument is never-ending.

Casuals like to say they want event that everyone can do with no real limitations like claiming, but how many casuals really did Ein or Salvage, given some did, but not many.

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The thing is most of the time, the so called best gear in the game will never be obtained by casual player because by the the time they get it, there is already newer content with a better best gear.

Hence the so called current best gear will still be almost exclusive to the hardcores, so what is wrong with having content that casual can eventually get, albeit a very very long time.

I think some of you are just too selfish to even allow the more casual people to at least get a shot at working towards the best gear.

I think this is quite ridiculous, asking for 24-hour NMs


Everyone finds it incredibly easy to forget the fact that Dynamis Lord Loot was harder to Acquire than most every 24 hour HNM, HQ Version or not.


Dynamis Lord loot wasn't hard to acquire because it was on a random ass spawn timer, in fact you could challenge him any time you wanted to. But it really required a lot of work to get to him, and once you reached him it was pretty challenging to defeat him, especially as a solo LS who could only pull maybe ~40 members max in your Dynamis.




I would LOVE Content to match this movement, Along with the entire Sea system, Where you find items to pop first tier, who drop second tier pop items etc.

Or just do Dungeons, Aion took an interesting approach where sometimes when you ran a dungeon the "HQ" Version of a boss would spawn. I thought that was extremely clever and a cool mix of the FFXI System and the WoW Dungeon system.




There are many routes to take for exciting new content, and 24-hour highly contest pop NMs are a thing of the past, and add almost nothing to gameplay.

Making something take all day to camp and wait for will go against the statement made when you select Start on the main menu.........

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Originally Posted by Arcell

That's what they don't want though. They don't want anyone who doesn't play 8+ hours a day to get the super uber leet gear they spent any time getting.

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If someone only has to run around collecting super mario coins to get the best gear then everyone will have it. It's not the point of the time spent, it's the rarity along with the commitment.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Its every 21-24, and its still not the fact that it can spawn every 21-24hrs, its keeping the gear rare, it needs to be fairly hard to kill, not pop that often, and low drop-rates on really good drops, if the whole server can get the item in a month its not worth puting in the game.

I could just imagine having the HNM's in 11 at 1hr respawns.

[Fafnir just dies]
/l (Leader) well... everyone but you in ls has ridill so you can lot it.
/l (Random guy) well... my inv is full... should i drop a rainbow cloth for it?
/l (Leader) na.

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That's one way of looking at it, but you could look at it the other way, in that its fairly easy to get and they continue to release content, similar to how WoW does it.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Limited spawns, limited drops for everyone on the server which increases rarity of its drops.

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Nope, its just about camping and botting.

I suggested in some earlier post to have a NM that spawns only once in a week (random dayP, in a completely random location, with a VERY low drop rate.
You can’t camp it, now that i would love!

Setting alarmglock to compete with some bots??? been there, done that.
no, thanks!

I consider casual people who plays to sight seeing and socialize.
I consider hardcore people who plays efficiently.
The time they put on the game as long as is not super-duper limited dont matter to me.If im having fun i can stay on for whole day when im off work sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Randis

Nope, its just about camping and butting.

I suggested in some earlier post to have a NM that spawns only once in a week (random dayP, in a completely random location, with a VERY low drop rate.
You can’t camp it, now that i would love!

Setting alarmglock to compete with some bots??? been there, done that.
no, thanks!

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That is something i could live with , sounds fun, as long as they do spawn randomly somewhere and does not get tracked down to a few spawn locations.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

Everyone finds it incredibly easy to forget the fact that Dynamis Lord Loot was harder to Acquire than most every 24 hour HNM, HQ Version or not.

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What? Are you out of your mind? Dynamis Lord was nothing. You can kill him every dynamis if you wanted to all you needed was melee and RDMs who weren't failures.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Don't forget, you offered to invite me to your LS at one point! ^_^

I believe a casual player is defined more by what they do while they're in-game rather than how much time they spend playing. Plants vs. Zombies is considered a "casual" game, yet most people I know who play it do so for hours upon hours.

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You're cool Kiki o: I don't have any problems with FoW either.

I sort of agree with you there... but then again someone could spend their whole time leveling Botanist and Mining and Fishing and have them all at 50 already. They are not necessarily out for all the high level gear but I would still consider them a hardcore player because they invest so much time in the game... but this is sorta getting off topic now.

Again, people would complain about something like DL with a 5% or less drop rate on shadow ring because everyone wouldnt have it in a month, and DL isnt/wasnt hard to get to, im sorry for your ls. like 12 people could get to DL in -1hr and change jobs to a zerg setup > re-enter > kill > warp out. Only reason for more people is to farm and still... 40? Maby 18.

40 people just means people dont know how to use tp/ws/hmp gear sets, food, proper pathing, prob wiping every 5min's.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

I think this is quite ridiculous, asking for 24-hour NMs


Everyone finds it incredibly easy to forget the fact that Dynamis Lord Loot was harder to Acquire than most every 24 hour HNM, HQ Version or not.


Dynamis Lord loot wasn't hard to acquire because it was on a random ass spawn timer, in fact you could challenge him any time you wanted to. But it really required a lot of work to get to him, and once you reached him it was pretty challenging to defeat him, especially as a solo LS who could only pull maybe ~40 members max in your Dynamis.




I would LOVE Content to match this movement, Along with the entire Sea system, Where you find items to pop first tier, who drop second tier pop items etc.

Or just do Dungeons, Aion took an interesting approach where sometimes when you ran a dungeon the "HQ" Version of a boss would spawn. I thought that was extremely clever and a cool mix of the FFXI System and the WoW Dungeon system.




There are many routes to take for exciting new content, and 24-hour highly contest pop NMs are a thing of the past, and add almost nothing to gameplay.

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This post is pure money. Perfection wants 24 hr NMs because they're the only shell that has enough TIME to waste getting to them. Time isn't what makes a player hardcore, but they somehow think that if the have 24 hr NMS and they have enough members that they can force to get on at 3 am in the morning, they are more leet than everyone else.

Like you said, you don't have to have a rare spawn to make gear rare.

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Originally Posted by Randis

Nope, its just about camping and botting.

I suggested in some earlier post to have a NM that spawns only once in a week (random dayP, in a completely random location, with a VERY low drop rate.
You can’t camp it, now that i would love!

Setting alarmglock to compete with some bots??? been there, done that.
no, thanks!

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Ixion and Sandworm were sort of like that. People still camped them.

As said before. Bots don't work.

Also, no one is forcing you to wake up at 4 am and camp it.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Making something take all day to camp and wait for will go against the statement made when you select Start on the main menu.........

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Didn't stop XI back in the day did it?

I find it massively funny that someone is still arguing that wasting a ton of time doing nothing else than waiting equals to be "hardcore" or to deserving more than others.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Didn't stop XI back in the day did it?

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Bolded the key part. Times have changed. Thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Its every 21-24, and its still not the fact that it can spawn every 21-24hrs, its keeping the gear rare, it needs to be fairly hard to kill, not pop that often, and low drop-rates on really good drops, if the whole server can get the item in a month its not worth puting in the game.

I could just imagine having the HNM's in 11 at 1hr respawns.

[Fafnir just dies]
/l (Leader) well... everyone but you in ls has ridill so you can lot it.
/l (Random guy) well... my inv is full... should i drop a rainbow cloth for it?
/l (Leader) na.

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that convo can happen now with 24 hr pop because by now everyone who wanted rid gots one.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Ixion and Sandworm were sort of like that. People still camped them.

As said before. Bots don't work.

Also, no one is forcing you to wake up at 4 am and camp it.

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if done right it cant be camped.

No one is forcing me? are you kidding? I want the best gear, i am not a lite gamer.
But i want to play the game when i choose to and not when the game is forcing me to play.


Anyways, I am never against long respawn times, but I am against camping.

You should understand that most HNM ls's are very large, given some people play much more than others, but its not always the same people around the clock, they invite people in most timezones so its always there ls getting drops, they take care of there own.

Even though i would love 21-24hr respawns with 1hr windows, 3hrs wasnt bad either. Do you really think we sat there for 3hrs strait? Even though its a 3hr window total, the actual windows were 30min's appart, people would do homework/eat dinner/spend time with familly then for 2 min's watch the screen and pay attention, if something popped, they take 5-10min's to kill then do w/e.

I dont think ive seen the 30min windows mentioned once.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Ixion and Sandworm were sort of like that. People still camped them.

As said before. Bots don't work.

Also, no one is forcing you to wake up at 4 am and camp it.

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ixion was funny not much of an nm realy imo.

2 yes bots still happen they just tweeked their programs under the new claim rules


3 99% of the time a king spawn time was between 12am-6am. It was rare to have it during US time. I took time exploring the game when I hit 75 and went to the king pop areas never seen them up in the US morning. And I visited them regulary.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

You should understand that most HNM ls's are very large, given some people play much more than others, but its not always the same people around the clock, they invite people in most timezones so its always there ls getting drops, they take care of there own.

Even though i would love 21-24hr respawns with 1hr windows, 3hrs wasnt bad either. Do you really think we sat there for 3hrs strait? Even though its a 3hr window total, the actual windows were 30min's appart, people would do homework/eat dinner/spend time with familly then for 2 min's watch the screen and pay attention, if something popped, they take 5-10min's to kill then do w/e.

I dont think ive seen the 30min windows mentioned once.

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The game isnt heading into a direction to cater big linkshells.Whatever i or you agree or not makes no difference.
Look at the current changes, you will see what i mean.

You cant want the best gear in the game and be against camping and for long respawns, atleast if getting the best gear in the game involves NM's. If your solution is the random spawning of mobs anywhere in the game with no pattern of any kind, you sir, will never see the gear i promise you.

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Originally Posted by Visch

If someone only has to run around collecting super mario coins to get the best gear then everyone will have it. It's not the point of the time spent, it's the rarity along with the commitment.

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It does NOT need to be collecting currencies, another example would be putting a super tough HNM like absolute virtue as final boss of an instance(with 72hr reenter time, same like hnm respawn) which will drop the best gear in game.

That way, the best gear will still be rare even among the elites, and there will still be commitment needed to find ways and gear up to kill it.

Bottom line is, there is no need for mindless, time wasting camping of nm.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

You cant want the best gear in the game and be against camping and for long respawns, atleast if getting the best gear in the game involves NM's. If your solution is the random spawning of mobs anywhere in the game with no pattern of any kind, you sir, will never see the gear i promise you.

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If the mob is hard enough to be super difficult with a party of 8 , it is possible.Like i said, please notice the direction the game is taking.

Sounds like your asking for abyssea in ff14, you dont want big groups that takes strategy, you want to duo all but 3 mobs in the game (Pugilist+Thaum).

New thread asking for Primal Brews otw.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

It does NOT need to be collecting currencies, another example would be putting a super tough HNM like absolute virtue as final boss of an instance(with 72hr reenter time, same like hnm respawn) which will drop the best gear in game.

That way, the best gear will still be rare even among the elites, and there will still be commitment needed to find ways and gear up to kill it.

Bottom line is, there is no need for mindless, time wasting camping of nm.

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If it's killable anyone will be able to kill it which means the gear won't be limited and also there will be no competition.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Sounds like your asking for abyssea in ff14, you dont want big groups that takes strategy, you want to duo all but 3 mobs in the game (Pugilist+Thaum).

New thread asking for Primal Brews otw.

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eh not asking for anything. Im mainly just saying you should look the direction the game is heading . no game is gonna cater to all kind of players and ffxiv is not the exception, at least not in a short time spawn(ffxi might be more balanced for diferent type of gamers but that took what 10 years to achive?).Some people should just realize the game is not catering to them anymore.I might fall into this category , maybe.

edit; going to the movie to watch earth invasion .Thanks for the discussion i enjoyed it.
Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

I think this is quite ridiculous, asking for 24-hour NMs


Everyone finds it incredibly easy to forget the fact that Dynamis Lord Loot was harder to Acquire than most every 24 hour HNM, HQ Version or not.


Dynamis Lord loot wasn't hard to acquire because it was on a random ass spawn timer, in fact you could challenge him any time you wanted to. But it really required a lot of work to get to him, and once you reached him it was pretty challenging to defeat him, especially as a solo LS who could only pull maybe ~40 members max in your Dynamis.




I would LOVE Content to match this movement, Along with the entire Sea system, Where you find items to pop first tier, who drop second tier pop items etc.

Or just do Dungeons, Aion took an interesting approach where sometimes when you ran a dungeon the "HQ" Version of a boss would spawn. I thought that was extremely clever and a cool mix of the FFXI System and the WoW Dungeon system.




There are many routes to take for exciting new content, and 24-hour highly contest pop NMs are a thing of the past, and add almost nothing to gameplay.

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^this. Challenge > time spent waiting

There used to be a similar argument in ff11 about needing less people to do events.

Something like a party of 6 should be able to do anything, simply make things weaker so a party of 6 can kill it but still be hard. The problem is, if 6 people can kill something, its not hard, even if its hard for you, it took almost no cooperation with others and most likely very little strategy. Something that would take 18 people and still be hard is many many times more difficult.
You only having 5 friends shouldnt be my problem either.