Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vaer

I was more responding to the other person saying people wanting a high success rate is a bad thing, and one of the reasons is because of the unique reward they put all the way at the end that people want which falls in the "design" being at fault. Let's be real here, if there was no unique reward for clearing the entire thing or if you could buy the ozma mount for fragments the salt wouldn't even be as high since the rest of the stuff can be bought off the MB and the fragments can be slowly farmed even if you don't make it very far.

Who wants to gamble on having enough people and the right amount of jobs to get to the end when you can delevel and waste more time. The player base just took things into their own hands.

---

perhaps, i never really got the mount craze. most people i know who want to it want the fragments and the challenge if beating it, the mount is just a trophy to show they can do it.

i have a crazy and wild idea regarding BA. why not let the people who want to run it in premades run it with a que (you could restrict it to requiring a full alliance premade, or what ever.), and let the people that want to pug it use the portals in hydatos? for me personally, despite how much i enjoyed BA and the logos system, i've given up on BA because i'm tired of having to deal with BA portal / instance queueing Savage.

BC at this point its too late, most bend to the "you can only clear with Discord" so youll never get enough parties - I tried everytime i was there, 1/4 or more isnt even 60, 1/4 does bunny for mount or Lockboxes or needs stuff for their gear. We already broke it and it could only be fixed by nerving it to the ground and let us ress in there or my not allowing any premades to que...
(Besides the actual fix to make it an 56ppl raid for DF or creating a new zone without the support fate or anything that needs more work)

One thing that really needs to happen due to BA is an increase in the availability of some of the logograms with the big offenders being Protective and Curative. Either having them drop from more sources or increasing what you get from the bunny chests since the supply is not keeping up with the demands on most servers which is leading to these logos being extremely expensive on most market boards.

I do wonder if the 56 person design was to prevent instance server crashing with so many people trying the new content.

I honestly think it needs to be balanced around a 24 man raid team.

There's a reason other games don't have that many people as a requirement for content. Organizing them SUCKS. It's not fun. It's just time consuming.

Also, there absolutely needs to be another way to get fragments. I think more people would attempt BA if they could get that elemental gear before hand. It would help people who make mistakes live through them. One shot mechanics aren't fun either.

Make the fragments have a low drop chance from the regular lockboxes and a higher drop rate from moisture boxes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

I do wonder if the 56 person design was to prevent instance server crashing with so many people trying the new content.

I honestly think it needs to be balanced around a 24 man raid team.

There's a reason other games don't have that many people as a requirement for content. Organizing them SUCKS. It's not fun. It's just time consuming.

Also, there absolutely needs to be another way to get fragments. I think more people would attempt BA if they could get that elemental gear before hand. It would help people who make mistakes live through them. One shot mechanics aren't fun either.

---

its meanf to be like a tougher endgame map event. Its not supposed to be pre organized. Basically a tougher more involved fate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its meanf to be like a tougher endgame map event. Its not supposed to be pre organized. Basically a tougher more involved fate

---

That would be fine if the difficulty was that of a tougher FATE, but honestly it's not.

It also has no business being in what for 3 other iterations was extremely casual content.

SE: Lets throw some of the hardest content in the game, where a single mistake can screw 56 other people, into content that doesn't cater to that crowd. Not to mention, with 55 other people in the instance, said one shot mechanics can't be seen due to our server stability issues and culling.

Which is exactly why, IMHO, it should be balanced for a 24 man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its meanf to be like a tougher endgame map event. Its not supposed to be pre organized. Basically a tougher more involved fate

---

It's not meant to be a tougher fate. Else why why warn people before attempting it that it's a very hard content? All these requirements SE put and not making it easy for premades to enter along with the party wipe mechanics and enrage timers was to make the content more difficult to even start it and make it last longer. Similar to how Naxx 40 was difficult in WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

That would be fine if the difficulty was that of a tougher FATE, but honestly it's not.

It also has no business being in what for 3 other iterations was extremely casual content.

SE: Lets throw some of the hardest content in the game, where a single mistake can screw 56 other people, into content that doesn't cater to that crowd. Not to mention, with 55 other people in the instance, said one shot mechanics can't be seen due to our server stability issues and culling.

Which is exactly why, IMHO, it should be balanced for a 24 man.

---

its no where near being the hardest content in the game, its probably around the difficulty of a 24 man, the only difference is its a lot harder to raise.


they have mechanics very similar to the things you see in BA other fates you see in Eureka, and other bosses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

It's not meant to be a tougher fate. Else why why warn people before attempting it that it's a very hard content? All these requirements SE put and not making it easy for premades to enter along with the party wipe mechanics and enrage timers was to make the content more difficult to even start it and make it last longer. Similar to how Naxx 40 was difficult in WoW.

---

yes, hence tougher.


basically take most of the other fates, now make it so that if you die, you cant raise, then put like 3 of them together, its not that different. plus i hear its super easy for people with max gear. 5 minute ozmas. Its also commonly pugged in japan. This is not savage level content by far.


watch a guide for bahamut coil nero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msMUIogugL4


vs a explanation for raiden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC-z57QG7PY


this is not much harder than loughi, skoll, etc. it just you cant get up if you die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its no where near being the hardest content in the game, its probably around the difficulty of a 24 man, the only difference is its a lot harder to raise.

---

The hardest part of the 24 mans is getting that many people to all play together cohesively. And somehow SE thought that twice as many people could do that? Yeah, no.

Heck, most of the time the only reason 24 mans are successful is because everyone is carried by raises.

When I heal them, I'm constantly picking people up multiple times every single boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

The hardest part of the 24 mans is getting that many people to all play together cohesively. And somehow SE thought that twice as many people could do that? Yeah, no.

Heck, most of the time the only reason 24 mans are successful is because everyone is carried by raises.

When I heal them, I'm constantly picking people up multiple times every single boss.

---

thing is they do it all the time. people learn and adapt. look at the vid i linked, they can explain the fight in 3 minutes, heck the rabanster 24 man is considerably more complex.

yeah, you need to not screw up drastically, but its also not very hard to execute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

thing is they do it all the time. people learn and adapt. look at the vid i linked, they can explain the fight in 3 minutes, heck the rabanster 24 man is considerably more complex.

yeah, you need to not screw up drastically, but its also not very hard to execute.

---

Just an FYI your raiden video is the Nael video.

Regarding the content: Raiden isn't AV or Ozma. Of course he's going to be easier to execute than those two. And those AV and Ozma is where most groups fail due to the death mechanic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Just an FYI your raiden video is the Nael video.

Regarding the content: Raiden isn't AV or Ozma. Of course he's going to be easier to execute than those two. And those AV and Ozma is where most groups fail due to the death mechanic.

---

guess i linked the same video, Av is definitely more complex than raiden, but its still a lot less crazy than savage, and probably on par with the latest 24 man.

They are indeed 24 man level of mechanics, what makes it harsh is that they do much more damage than 24 man mechanics, that you can't be raised normally and that it's easier to kill other people or not meet enrage DPS check if you fail mechanics (24 mans have no enrage). I don't think there has ever been a 24 man run where no one did any mistakes no matter how minor, and this is what makes it hard to fully pug, in NA/EU at least.

Should have been a way to reserve instances then allow remaining portals to be open to whomever. A Dynamis Hourglass system of sorts would have been great.
It's all great to call it a "public dungeon" but it seems in bad taste how far the devs went to prevent premade groups from happening.

No large-scale queuing.
No group chat aside from party/yell.
Instances arbitrarily "locking" and preventing Ovni from spawning for up to your entire lockout. (<-- the worst)
Red portal spawns randomly elsewhere if someone uses a stabilizer.
Support FATE red portals spawning in totally random locations independent of the blue portals.

It's like they wanted 99% of the difficulty to be in the logistics of finding 56 randoms with the gear, fight knowledge, and CORRECT JOB ROLE inside the same Hydatos. You can't even change jobs inside.

It's a shame because the fights themselves are pretty fun when you're not dying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeykama

Should have been a way to reserve instances then allow remaining portals to be open to whomever. A Dynamis Hourglass system of sorts would have been great.
It's all great to call it a "public dungeon" but it seems in bad taste how far the devs went to prevent premade groups from happening.

No large-scale queuing.
No group chat aside from party/yell.
Instances arbitrarily "locking" and preventing Ovni from spawning for up to your entire lockout. (<-- the worst)
Red portal spawns randomly elsewhere if someone uses a stabilizer.
Support FATE red portals spawning in totally random locations independent of the blue portals.

It's like they wanted 99% of the difficulty to be in the logistics of finding 56 randoms with the gear, fight knowledge, and CORRECT JOB ROLE inside the same Hydatos. You can't even change jobs inside.

It's a shame because the fights themselves are pretty fun when you're not dying.

---

its not meant to be premade content. job roles are less important due to logos options, and you dont need to have a winning run every time. I hear it scales down to at least 24, fight knowledge is supposed to be shared by those who know.

So i have managed to get in two times now.

First time we wiped to Raiden because all the casters got one-shotted by a raidwide AOE, they went from full to zero in an instant, leaving only tanks and physical DPS alive.
Suffice to say, people kept dropping after that due to the lack of healers, then Ultimate Zantetsuken finished off those who were still standing because there weren't enough of us left to burn down the spears in time.

Second time went a bit better, got to 36% on Ozma before Black Hole spat us out due to nobody standing on one of the platform things.
Oddly enough i was the only one still alive in my party by the time that happened, in spite of being a first timer on Ozma...

Only real mistake on my part was during Absolute Virtue when i got one of the orbs...and the dang orb was invisible, i couldn't see what color it was so i had no idea where to go with it, 50% chance of putting it in the right place, got it wrong, boom.
Still killed him though.

Actually getting into the instance is still by far the worst part of it all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Actually getting into the instance is still by far the worst part of it all.

---

Yeah, that's the annoying part. But it was intentional by SE, since the content would be easy to finish if they let premades go in. As you saw, you managed to get to Ozma on your second run.

Hope you had fun, though. I know Ozma can be nerve wrecking when fighting him for the first time lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its not meant to be premade content. job roles are less important due to logos options, and you dont need to have a winning run every time. I hear it scales down to at least 24, fight knowledge is supposed to be shared by those who know.

---

It's been explained to you previously that it's not prudent to have DPS and healers running defensive logograms. People need offensive to meet AV's and Ozma's DPS checks, especially those who do not come in with elemental gear on.

Yes bc its not meant to clear in one go but to level up first and get that gear, jsut the way we do it its not happening....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alimdia

They are indeed 24 man level of mechanics, what makes it harsh is that they do much more damage than 24 man mechanics, that you can't be raised normally and that it's easier to kill other people or not meet enrage DPS check if you fail mechanics (24 mans have no enrage).

---

By definition, content that is "much harder than" something else isn't that. If it's "Much Harder" than a 24 man, it's not 24 man level content. It's a tier higher. It might be O9S level, but it's still savage level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its not meant to be premade content. job roles are less important due to logos options, and you dont need to have a winning run every time. I hear it scales down to at least 24, fight knowledge is supposed to be shared by those who know.

---

Nope. Running less than 6 tanks is going to lead to a bad time. Running less than 6 healers is going to lead to a bad time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

By definition, content that is "much harder than" something else isn't that. If it's "Much Harder" than a 24 man, it's not 24 man level content. It's a tier higher. It might be O9S level, but it's still savage level.

---

It's only Savage-level because of your 55 stacks of People Debuff. Mechanically, the fights aren't hard.

But, I forget people struggled with Vanilla Ozma. And that was only with 23 stacks of People Debuff!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It's only Savage-level because of your 55 stacks of People Debuff. Mechanically, the fights aren't hard.

But, I forget people struggled with Vanilla Ozma. And that was only with 23 stacks of People Debuff!

---

Funny enough my first Ozma wipe happened about 6 weeks after that 24 man duty was added. Oddly those seem to go so much smoother for me when they first come out and I do them on patch day. Maybe its cause more of the players queueing actually observe and learn what is going on and actively think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Funny enough my first Ozma wipe happened about 6 weeks after that 24 man duty was added. Oddly those seem to go so much smoother for me when they first come out and I do them on patch day. Maybe its cause more of the players queueing actually observe and learn what is going on and actively think?

---

I remember vividly wiping during Week 2 to Ozma. And that's only because of how salty the chat got from those who had done it already versus those that had not (I think that I might have even referenced it in my first ever forum post in the Tales of the DF thread). Inevitably, it gets worse. Kind of like Orbonne - my Day 1 run where everyone was blind wasn't as bad as some of the ones I've had recently. The mechanics aren't hard, but people don't want to pay attention. And some think you can ignore the mechanics, because that's what you can do in most of the dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I remember vividly wiping during Week 2 to Ozma. And that's only because of how salty the chat got from those who had done it already versus those that had not (I think that I might have even referenced it in my first ever forum post in the Tales of the DF thread). Inevitably, it gets worse. Kind of like Orbonne - my Day 1 run where everyone was blind wasn't as bad as some of the ones I've had recently. The mechanics aren't hard, but people don't want to pay attention. And some think you can ignore the mechanics, because that's what you can do in most of the dungeons.

---

Its something this game sorely lacks at the lower difficulty of content, these need not be strict in any way but they do need to start making players accountable they could be like need 1k dps minimum to clear a 1v1 story instance or add enrages to dungeon bosses that have a timer between 8 to 10 mins and have job quests that require basic rotation that are mandatory(as in you cannot queue into say Ala Mhigo without having done your lv70 job quest) to enter max level content

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It's been explained to you previously that it's not prudent to have DPS and healers running defensive logograms. People need offensive to meet AV's and Ozma's DPS checks, especially those who do not come in with elemental gear on.

---

people would have gear after doing it a few times, naturally, over time a percentage of the players would be experienced and some would be newer, thats actually how its balanced.
56 people with full elemental is, from what i heard face roll difficulty.

a monk with platebearer and elemental armor takes less damage than a fully geared elementless tank. The point is, BA and eureka is made such that players can adapt if need be. Its not optimal, but its doable to meet the checks.

also your argument about dps needed tor ozma and av is irrelevant, because you can bring multiple logos for different parts which is already recommended. You dont need 7 tanks for AV.

depends on the skills, gear, and adaptability of the people involved. But, i would say its harder to run with less than 6 healers than it is to run with less than 6 tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

also your argument about dps needed tor ozma and av is irrelevant, because you can bring multiple logos for different parts which is already recommended. You dont need 7 tanks for AV.

---

For prog, you absolutely want to have at least 2 tanks per platform plus a backup in the event one of the MTs die and don’t get Remembered. Ozma’s autos will truck anyone that isn’t a tank.

For clears, it’s better to have the same number. Better safe than sorry.

Got kicked out by black hole after dying to the stack marker due to not enough people being alive to stack.

And off course Remembered didn't proc...

At 3%

The last survivors then went on to clear.

Feels bad.

Still, 3% on the second attempt


EDIT: So it turns out one of my FC mates recorded a video of the run in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=T6kjTYkmSHw

If you look at 31:41 that was the point where i died and then got kicked out.

So techically i died on 4% and got booted on 3%

Now, can anyone tell what went wrong there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Now, can anyone tell what went wrong there?

---

People that died didn't have full HP due to a ticking DoT (one healer was outside). In addition to that the right meteor was too close to the group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Now, can anyone tell what went wrong there?

---

The big things were the right meteor was pretty close (killing some people right away) and that the healers were staying stacked during the pyramid form. When ozma goes pyramid shape he starts to drop aoe attacks on the healers that apply a pretty decent bleed that also stacks, so they're supposed to all spread away from each other and the parties.

Well, on one hand i finally got my BA clear.

On the other hand, THAT WAS HORRIBLE! NEVER AGAIN! *Jumps off a cliff, screaming and on fire the whole way* YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO BACK THERE!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Well, on one hand i finally got my BA clear.

On the other hand, THAT WAS HORRIBLE! NEVER AGAIN! *Jumps off a cliff, screaming and on fire the whole way* YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO BACK THERE!

---

Now go get the achievement for doing it 10 times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Well, on one hand i finally got my BA clear.

On the other hand, THAT WAS HORRIBLE! NEVER AGAIN! *Jumps off a cliff, screaming and on fire the whole way* YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO BACK THERE!

---

Same, except I'm going back for fragment runs because now I do not have to care if the group fails at Ozma.