#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

An active discourse of over 450 pages with a back and forth between two opposing parties clearly suggest that no, it isn't and ignoring the feedback to come to this conclusion is kind of disingenuous.

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Its 450 pages of the same ppl arguing back and forth, its a drop of water that evaporated before it even reached the ocean. lol

Read his name you're being baited lmao

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

An active discourse of over 450 pages with a back and forth between two opposing parties clearly suggest that no, it isn't and ignoring the feedback to come to this conclusion is kind of disingenuous.

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Surely the fact that a thread had even reached four hundred and fifty pages (and counting) indicative of fairly a major issue? Give how threads on the English forum tend to be (short lived then replaced by another thread on the same issue).

That is to say, if there was ‘no real issue’ the thread wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long probably. The fact it has means that there probably very much is an issue with healers lol, even if there may be disagreement on how that should be rectified

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

Gonna repost something i said in another thread, because i feel it's relevant here too.
Let's put dmg complexity and button aside for a moment and look at the core issue.

Every issue with [Healer] can all be indirectly and directly traced back to this:
The damage output in this game is way to LOW to sustain
the insane heals and self-sustaine that exist in this game.

Most dmg is avoidable-->becomes invalid!

How to solve this:

1. Damage needs to happen way more frequent during BOSS fight(s).

2. We need Random and Unavoidable dmg in the game!
This will make it so that even experienced groups,will take dmg.

Solutions (suggestions) :
- (30-40s) AOE DoTs on all players ( this will force healer to use their AoE healing more often ).
- Direct DMG that hits a random player(s). ( forces more spot healing).
- Have % based DMG ( on bosses) ( high ilvl/gear should not make the dmg invalid (in normal content)).
- Have bosses actually do damage to tanks outside just TBs - make auto hits hit harder.

What make [gameplay] boring is:
A.Repetiveness in movement/buttons
B.Predictable outcome(dmg patterns).

Sadly healers suffer from this in both; it's healing and dmg!
which is also why many find healer boring in ffxiv.

Adding randomness and surprises will go a long way.

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Thank you for laying this out in a way the blind can finally see.

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Originally Posted by Amity_Roji

Citation needed. Other games do it just fine, so why not this one? This is a causal fallacy.

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There is an amazing example of good healers over in World of Warcraft, where the healers 1) Have more to heal, 2) Have more interesting heals with more interactions between abilites, AND 3) Have more interesting DPS options. And it doesn't affect the floor really because the floor is the ability to do normal mode dungeons and LFR, both of which are supremely easy with the occasional exception, which is usually mechanics related rather then healing related.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Its 450 pages of the same ppl arguing back and forth, its a drop of water that evaporated before it even reached the ocean. lol

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I'm very curious about this. Have you gone through 450 pages to reach this conclusion and actually mapped out the individuals who are here more actively? Or are you guessing?

Even if, they would not be posting as much if it wasn't for people kneejerk reacting with terribile takes while ignoring the information presented throughout this thread and throughout healer feedback over the course of several expansions. I do not blame them to respond to terrible feedback and saying that their argument makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Read his name you're being baited lmao

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Auuugh... man... really wish they didn't.

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

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Originally Posted by GangWeed

I don’t even get why critics are so heated over people organizing to not play healers in dawntrail. Are they just dps mains who are mad that queue times are gonna go up because healers are tired of consuming Yoshi p’s slop for the third expansion in a row?

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Not sure. I'm a DPS Main so I understand why wanting a DPS rotation that is fun would be a thing even if it's small improvements

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Originally Posted by Connor

Surely the fact that a thread had even reached four hundred and fifty pages (and counting) indicative of fairly a major issue? Give how threads on the English forum tend to be (short lived then replaced by another thread on the same issue).

That is to say, if there was ‘no real issue’ the thread wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long probably. The fact it has means that there probably very much is an issue with healers lol, even if there may be disagreement on how that should be rectified

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It surpassed the multiple-years-old Dark Knight megathread within less than a month, so... yeah, this is significant.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

There is an amazing example of good healers over in World of Warcraft, where the healers 1) Have more to heal, 2) Have more interesting heals with more interactions between abilites, AND 3) Have more interesting DPS options. And it doesn't affect the floor really because the floor is the ability to do normal mode dungeons and LFR, both of which are supremely easy with the occasional exception, which is usually mechanics related rather then healing related.

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Wait a minute, i have it, just a second

Looks at his notes

Ah here it is!

Go back to WoW then if you are not happy here!



Did i say the line in a good way? the script was a bit folded, sorry.
(also was it on the healer bingo, i don't recall)

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

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can't have been a godlike warrior if he didn't manage to solo the dungeon. what dungeon was that?

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

Wait a minute, i have it, just a second

Looks at his notes

Ah here it is!

Go back to WoW then if you are not happy here!



Did i say the line in a good way? the script was a bit folded, sorry.
(also was it on the healer bingo, i don't recall)

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I love how "go back to WoW if you don't like it here" is actually a response, like damn would it cost us an arm and a leg if we actually had things that didn't encourage people to swap games and enjoy staying where they are? :D

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Originally Posted by Gullis

can't have been a godlike warrior if he didn't manage to solo the dungeon. what dungeon was that?

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Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

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Are you really using the lowest common denominator here to argue that "healers are still needed, here is why"? Sorry, it doesn't matter how many healers and warriors you bring, if players are bad at mechanics they will die regardless. It is when people actually have a breath and a pulse in their system that things turn to spoiled milk for healers.

It does not take a god-tier savage/ultimate raider playing Warrior in a 1-3 healerless setup. It takes one that is at least semi-aware of mechanics and spreads out his cooldowns a bit between Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash uses while occasionally healing a party member. You don't need to be a big-time raider to do this, you need basic intuition.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Are you really using the lowest common denominator here to argue that "healers are still needed, here is why"? Sorry, it doesn't matter how many healers and warriors you bring, if players are bad at mechanics they will die regardless. It is when people actually have a breath and a pulse in their system that things turn to spoiled milk for healers.

It does not take a god-tier savage/ultimate raider playing Warrior in a 1-3 healerless setup. It takes one that is at least semi-aware of mechanics and spreads out his cooldowns a bit between Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash uses while occasionally healing a party member. You don't need to be a big-time raider to do this, you need basic intuition.

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but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Lunar Sub..... but remember the whole argument is that a Warrior as a tank means healers are irrelavent and yet, the majority of my runs as a healer and as a dps says otherwise. But nooooooooooooooooo healers aren't needed, isn't that the point of the thread? Because a God Tier uWu tank cleared with 3 dps and no heals. I mean... Warriors don't need healers right? Yet somehow mine couldn't live once the healer ate mechanics and died.

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Just watch the actual run goddamn.

The whole thing complaint about Xeno clearing without healers is that it makes really evident how little healing actually is needed, not the fact that it was run without a healer. If even your non healers can produce enough self sustain to complete a dungeon that means that the healing gameplay is basically barren when we were promised an "updated" battle system in Dawntrail. We have been hoping for six years already that the justification for our DPS kits to be pruned down to 1 nuke and 1 DoT would be "more actual healing to do". But with Xeno's run it became clear that is not going to be the case yet AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

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For the easier content, where the hyper casual players struggle, a DRK is already a valid tank. But that same DRK can't easily do the biggest pulls in those same dungeons without healer support. So apparently it's possible to service both hyper casuals, without making healers irrelevant for somewhat more competent players.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Just watch the actual run goddamn.

The whole thing complaint about Xeno clearing without healers is that it makes really evident how little healing actually is needed, not the fact that it was run without a healer. If even your non healers can produce enough self sustain to complete a dungeon that means that the healing gameplay is basically barren when we were promised an "updated" battle system in Dawntrail. We have been hoping for six years already that the justification for our DPS kits to be pruned down to 1 nuke and 1 DoT would be "more actual healing to do". But with Xeno's run it became clear that is not going to be the case yet AGAIN.

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I did watch the run. I watched it twice.
edit to add:
I also understand what a months old build of a TEST dungeon means. Very well things will change with it. I also understand the group playing, they also all died several times, it took them nearly a half hour to clear the dungeon because of this and because of no healer..... The average run of the mill tank in the game, including casual warriors are not capable of doing what they did.
Also Yoshi P in a current interview specifically stated the difficulty level will be increased in EXPERT dungeons, the level 100 ones, they are going to keep the skill floor low for the story dungeons.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

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So we should balance and design the game around players diving below the skill floor instead? I'm sorry, for how long do we want to enable hypercasual behaviour and when are we allowed to expect them to actually step it up a bit? We are approaching Lv100 for christ's sake.

The existence of hypercasuals unable to do things without a basic setup and still dying does not deny the fact that the moment they aren't hypercasuals you can actually do 1-0-3 parties with a warrior or have the healer be bored out of their mind between filler, dot and using a heal once a minute or 30s to recover "half" the HP lost over that time frame.

I only just recently joined the FFXIV forums and this is the first I've ever heard of the healer strike. I just want to add my own experience as a rather casual player who is a tank main, but has been recently leveling AST from lvl 60. My normal FFXIV routine is to log in and just do my daily roulette's using AST. This is the first time I actually really enjoyed healing in any capacity and I actually find that healing can get pretty hectic during Alliance raids, and maybe even in higher level trials. I actually have a hard time juggling my cards and even keeping DPS uptime at all while also trying to juggle fight mechanics. I think Healer right now is much harder than tank, and sits right below DPS in terms of difficulty level. If I ever die and get rezzed, the fact that I have no mana to help chain resurrect other party members can be a good pressure generator. So I am kind of surprised / was not expecting a healer strike to be going on at all, from my experience alone.

That being said, I personally wouldn't mind more DPS spells to make DPSing more interesting.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

I did watch the run. I watched it twice.
edit to add:
I also understand what a months old build of a TEST dungeon means. Very well things will change with it. I also understand the group playing, they also all died several times, it took them nearly a half hour to clear the dungeon because of this and because of no healer..... The average run of the mill tank in the game, including casual warriors are not capable of doing what they did.

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...they were also clicking their skills, having a giggle and the dungeon was new for them.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

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I have to break a lance for the casuals here.
The vast majority of the playerbase is just casual, nothing more and nothing less. They play the game at their own speed, not perfect but not horrible either. Otherwise there would be far, far more horror stories if the majority was hyper casual.
Casual does not mean bad and I will die on this hill. You can even clear savage with a casual group.

Not saying your experience is wrong but it's not the norm either.
I also had terrible runs but far more good runs.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

So we should balance and design the game around players diving below the skill floor instead? I'm sorry, for how long do we want to enable hypercasual behaviour and when are we allowed to expect them to actually step it up a bit? We are approaching Lv100 for christ's sake.

The existence of hypercasuals unable to do things without a basic setup and still dying does not deny the fact that the moment they aren't hypercasuals you can actually do 1-0-3 parties with a warrior or have the healer be bored out of their mind between filler, dot and using a heal once a minute or 30s to recover "half" the HP lost over that time frame.

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you realize there is a large OLDER player base to this game, as in there are people with disabilites as well that will be locked out of the game if the floor is moved up too much beyond what it is. People in their 50s and 60s who play but don't have the reaction times of young ones in this game? People with disabilites that want to enjoy the normal content.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

The average run of the mill tank in the game, including casual warriors are not capable of doing what they did.

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I must be encountering Pros in 90% if my roulettes then. I am basically almost never needed beyond the odd Recitation+Excog from time to time.

My GCDs in most content are still AoW spam and Broil spam.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better if SE just developed two different kits per class. A simple one that's perfectly capable of clearing casual content and an advanced one that you can select/toggle on and off in your actions and traits window.

The advanced one can be used in every piece of content so if you want to go ham with your rotation on a casual boss you can do that but the simple one can't be used in hardcore content. (For healers this would probably not mean that much more fun re: healing in casual content but you could give them a proper damage rotation for their advanced kit at least.)

I know this will never happen! It's just a thought experiment.

But I really think the problem is that you have so many players of vastly different skill levels and you try to serve them all with one kit. Those groups are so diverse that it seems nearly impossible to serve them all with just one "product".

So if your ideal is that this game is a theme park, as Yoshi says, where lots of different groups can spend their time, but those different groups can't agree on one kit because their wishes and gameplay styles are mutually exclusive, then perhaps you need expand your "product pallette" to live up tp your themepark ideal.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

you realize there is a large OLDER player base to this game, as in there are people with disabilites as well that will be locked out of the game if the floor is moved up too much beyond what it is. People in their 50s and 60s who play but don't have the reaction times of young ones in this game? People with disabilites that want to enjoy the normal content.

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older does not mean they are incapable. at this point SE is about one step away from catering to turnips in the field. I fall into the "older" category... and once I cannot game, I will take up a different game, because at my age, I dont want the equivalent of tapioca pudding every time I log in. I want something to KEEP my brain active... not a snooze fest.
do we start granting "accessibility" to people that are barely capable of turning on their computer or console? maybe we can have someone visit to do it for them.

once it gets to the point where every disability is catered to, then there is no more "normal" content. it is a race to see who drools the least while drinking the koolaid.

Adding on to the accessibility argument, I thought that is what Trusts are for? If you really need the help, then the NPCs can and will straight up do the dungeon for you.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

older does not mean they are incapable. at this point SE is about one step away from catering to turnips in the field. I fall into the "older" category... and once I cannot game, I will take up a different game, because at my age, I dont want the equivalent of tapioca pudding every time I log in. I want something to KEEP my brain active... not a snooze fest.
do we start granting "accessibility" to people that are barely capable of turning on their computer or console? maybe we can have someone visit to do it for them.

once it gets to the point where every disability is catered to, then there is no more "normal" content. it is a race to see who drools the least while drinking the koolaid.

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I kind of hard disagree with that. I think that SE did the right thing by putting accessibility first in their content design, especially since FFXIV has a MSQ system that is not optional and cannot have certain dungeons or trials skipped, such as in WoW, where people can just not do certain content to progress the story.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better if SE just develops two different kits per class. A simple one that's perfectly capable of clearing casual content and an advanced one that you can select/toggle on and off in your actions and traits window.

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The way to do this is by balancing potencies intelligently. For a quick example, take WHM. I often mention my idea for it would be to add a new button, Water (later Banish), with a 15s CD and dealing just 40p more than Glare. Then, lowering Dia to 12s duration, and changing it's potency from 65+65 per tick, to 150+70 per tick, going from 715 total over 30s, to 430 over 12s. By increasing Dia's base potency, clipping it by accident/purposely for movement would lose you less damage, helping those players at the skill floor to keep up. Additionally, if you ignored the proposed Banish (350p) entirely, and just use Glare in its place, you'd lose just 160p per minute, pretty much half a Glare worth of damage. We don't need to have SE's constant ballooned potencies on things, like the new Glare 4 being somewhere in the 500s. By keeping the 'optimal gameplay' that people seek for the 'skill ceiling' as a gain, but a very small gain to keep the skill floor able to clear content easily, then you can have the best of both worlds: A complex rotation to aspire to mastering, yet one that is entirely optional (and can be easily 'dropped out of' to heal when necessary)

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

but that is the crux of the issue as a whole. The vast majority of the player base are HYPER casual players. They are not good at their jobs. Its a small minority that can pull of the things that everyone claims make healers irrelavent in the current state of the game.

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This is a bit exaggerated. At least from my experience, majority of people in my roulettes play OK and they go smoothly: healers AoE, tanks mit, dps do their thing so the run takes expected amount of time - bellow 15min for dungeons.

There was a post on reddit where somebody did the stats on all the duties on mentor roulette grind and by his estimation 17% of the players played their jobs bad enough to be noticed.

As for what is needed, yesterday I had a run of Smileton. After the first pull I was curious what is happening, since Scholar was not using any healing abilities whatsoever (well, technically, Selene :) ) - they were not needed, I was tanking on WAR. I believe he only cast succor outside combat on me for chip dmg when pulling and some whispering dawn for unavoidable damage.

WAR shenanigans aside, there are not enough mechanics that damage dps that don't stand in bad. There is nothing for healer to do than be moral support mascot in this scenario.

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Originally Posted by aquarys

I kind of hard disagree with that. I think that SE did the right thing by putting accessibility first in their content design, especially since FFXIV has a MSQ system that is not optional and cannot have certain dungeons or trials skipped, such as in WoW, where people can just not do certain content to progress the story.

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yes, accessibilty is good, but content outside of the MSQ is and has usually been optional to the story. I mean I am pretty sure that even people with disabilities enjoy being treated like people. its getting to the point where pushing a button is "too difficult"

no healer I know of is arguing for an extreme level skill floor for MSQ or normals. just a bit more of our kit to engage with. thats all.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

you realize there is a large OLDER player base to this game, as in there are people with disabilites as well that will be locked out of the game if the floor is moved up too much beyond what it is. People in their 50s and 60s who play but don't have the reaction times of young ones in this game? People with disabilites that want to enjoy the normal content.

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Oh bröther please... not the "people with disabilities" card...

Our basic GCD is 2.50s, we have cheap and frequently available heals for the most basic players' needs. The game is hardly APM-intensive at all for most jobs, so don't give me the "people in their 50s and 60s" or "people with disabilities" crap. Nobody is asking for every single healer NEEDING TO juggle an extensive DPS rotation and having to deal with healing requirements akin to savage/ultimate level mechanics like Harrowing Hell or Wroth of Flames. But even in standard play I see so many people either having a gap of doing anything but moving because they are waiting for a heal to be required (I respect it, I guess) or having the majority of their filler be a 30s and otherwise the same attack spell over and over again. The moment nobody takes unnecessary damage anymore HEALING BECOMES BORING.

You design a floor that can be reached with basic tools, yes, but even right now, there is such a huge gap where you can't even make use of your basic tools because the incoming damage is just a joke unless players make severe mistakes. And the moment the mistakes aren't done? Back to square one of healers being bored.

We want (or I assume so at least) a reasonable floor where you don't get bored playing a key role of the holy trinity because your service is basically replacable with basic game knowledge and a skill ceiling that ISN'T bound to encounter difficulty (i.e. what everyone has to do anyways) to allow for personal fun and skill expression.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Adding on to the accessibility argument, I thought that is what Trusts are for? If you really need the help, then the NPCs can and will straight up do the dungeon for you.

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Back when before Trust was a thing I heard more people wanting NPC companions due to not wanting to play with others than it being for accessibility reasons.
And there was those amongst them that wanted it simply because then they wouldn't have to feel the pressure if something goes wrong.
Mostly from people playing Tank & Healer.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

I sit here watching this and for funsies queued dutyfinder with a smn since I was distracted by all these threads..... and in expert roulette had 3 party wipes due to mistakes by a healer that couldn't keep up and yet "we don't need healers anymore" and we had the god tier warrior tanking that supposedly can replace a healer

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It's true that healers are needed when other people play badly but that is also the problem: As people become good this changes.

This means that healer is, as somebody else said, more or less a "prog job". It's a crutch as long as people make mistakes. But as soon as people stop making mistakes (because they know a piece of content well enough) their necessity decreases.

Personally I consider this an inherent design flaw because in a trinity system no job should only be needed conditionally or situationally.

In my opinion you shouldn't be able to do content (as efficiently, when we talk about normal mode) without everyone from the trinity present.
1T1H2DPS should always be the most optimal team comp to complete content as fast/successfully as possible, even when players are good and don't make mistakes.

Their necessity should be baked into their design/the encounter design.

A good dps for example will only become better the better the player themselves and everyone else becomes (if tanks and healers are better then this means less dying, ergo more time for a dps to do damage).

But from the perspective of a healer the better people become the less they'll have to do.

Healers are the only class that are the "inverse fun job" in that sense.

(Sorry to everybody else reading, yes I just copied this from an earlier post because I don't want to write the same thing again but with slightly different words.)

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

yes, accessibilty is good, but content outside of the MSQ is and has usually been optional to the story. I mean I am pretty sure that even people with disabilities enjoy being treated like people. its getting to the point where pushing a button is "too difficult"

no healer I know of is arguing for an extreme level skill floor for MSQ or normals. just a bit more of our kit to engage with. thats all.

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I think that's fair enough. I do think DPS on AST (the only healer I really play right now) is kinda braindead in roulettes. Not sure how it's like on other jobs. I would hope that it's more involved for Sage, since I thought that healing through DPS was the whole point of the job? Edit: this is a genuine question because I've been hoping to start leveling Sage soon after AST because I like the idea of doing more DPS

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

you realize there is a large OLDER player base to this game, as in there are people with disabilites as well that will be locked out of the game if the floor is moved up too much beyond what it is. People in their 50s and 60s who play but don't have the reaction times of young ones in this game? People with disabilites that want to enjoy the normal content.

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I'm replying in good faith because I could also be counted as someone that falls into the disability group: Would you consider a fight design for casual content that replaces some of your damage GCD casts with healing GCDs (turning 111111 into 11h11h1h11hh1h) accessible?

I think that “needs a healer” and “is not too difficult” are not mutually exclusive.
Imo there just needs to be enough damage over time that exceeds the healing non-healer jobs can provide/mitigate.

Example:

(This is just a very simple example. I’ll focus on GCD healing for the sake of the argument but of course this should also work with other/more interesting healing mechanics. I’m also not addressing more DPS options here.)

You have your standard dungeon run/boss fight and the boss will cast their usual “big” raid wides. You can deal with those with your oGCD tools as you normally would.

But in-between those raid wides the boss would continuously deal low damage to the whole group (either by bleeds or by high frequency low-damage raid wides).

This damage can be countered by casting GCD aoe heals.

Additionally it could also keep on targeting random players to deal single target damage. That damage doesn’t need to be super high.

One GCD could cover it.

Why could this work:

1. Since the damage isn’t high, one “tick” of this low frequency damage shouldn’t lead to much stress and could be dealt with by replacing one of your regular DPS casts with a GCD heal cast.

1. As mentioned above the goal of this kind of approach is that the cumulative damage should exceed what non-healers can mitigate/salvage.

This means by pure numbers a healer would be mandatory because after too many ticks of low damage (plus “regular” big raid wides) the party would just be dead.

But at the same time dealing with it should be comfortable enough for casual players.


You could argue that replacing 11111 DPS GCDs with heal GCDs doesn’t make a difference but I’m not sure I completely agree (though as said above I’m certain there are more ways to make a healing scenario like this interesting).

Imo it continuously forces you to divert your attention to your party’s health (your party as a whole plus alternating between individual players’ health pools).
This could break up the 111111 tunnel during downtime, at least a little bit.


In harder content you could gradually increase the difficulty of resource management to up the stakes.

In midcore content dealing with frequent partywide and random single target damage should be more taxing than on normal mode but not completely unforgiving.

Hardcore content should really test your resource management.

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Originally Posted by aquarys

I think that's fair enough. I do think DPS on AST (the only healer I really play right now) is kinda braindead in roulettes. Not sure how it's like on other jobs. I would hope that it's more involved for Sage, since I thought that healing through DPS was the whole point of the job? Edit: this is a genuine question because I've been hoping to start leveling Sage soon after AST because I like the idea of doing more DPS

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its not any better on WHM. SGE, might be a bit more involved, I mean I got mine up, but never identified with the job so leveled and went back to WHM. the person I play with bounces between it and SCH so I imagine its roughly comparable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aquarys

I think that's fair enough. I do think DPS on AST (the only healer I really play right now) is kinda braindead in roulettes. Not sure how it's like on other jobs. I would hope that it's more involved for Sage, since I thought that healing through DPS was the whole point of the job? Edit: this is a genuine question because I've been hoping to start leveling Sage soon after AST because I like the idea of doing more DPS

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It's not really better, instead of cards you have a hybrid AoE called Phlegma that's 40s CD/2 charges, it's also an instant cast for movement,

Kardia handles any chip damage and you can just throw around Addersgall recklessly so it's actually really dull.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aquarys

I do think DPS on AST (the only healer I really play right now) is kinda braindead in roulettes. Not sure how it's like on other jobs.

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I can give you the WHM perspective.

Mob pulls: HOLYHOLYHOLYHOLYHOLYHOLYHOLY
Bosses: Dia, GLAREGLAREGLAREGLAREGLAREGLAREGLARE

If you're really lucky and you actually had to heal three times, you get to toss out an Afflatus Misery! Woohoo!