Dark Knight Megathread

Yeah, not loving the changes they showed. Free Living Shadow, merged BW+Delirium...it's just...meh.

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

Yeah, not loving the changes they showed. Free Living Shadow, merged BW+Delirium...it's just...meh.

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Also Plunge is gone.

Watch them not rebalance our MP and Blood gain so we also lost 1200 MP (technically gained 30 blood, but that still feels like a net loss with free Esteem)

To the people who asked for gap closers to lose their damage... You are part of the problem with what is wrong with game balance...

As for Living Shadow, I want that ability gone since Shadowbringers media tour info dropped because Dark Knight is NOT a Summon Pet class and NOTHING about it screams "I can summon a pet" and I would rather it get replaced with something that isn't a Summon Pet, like say, another big burst combo. The only way you can get me to actually tolerate Living Shadow, if it was more like old pet mechanics where they take damage and tank for you... otherwise you are not getting Summoners to play tank, if anything you further driving Dark Knight players AWAY from Dark Knight, because if I wanted to play a summon pet class/job, it would be Summoner/Scholar, not Dark Knight or Machinist...

So I'm not touching Dark Knight in Dawntrail and just leave it at that... also I was right about Dark Knight being just more Shadowbringers Dark Knight and not in a good way... thank you Square-Enix for proving my(and others) point about you not listening to player feedback...

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

Watch them not rebalance our MP and Blood gain so we also lost 1200 MP (technically gained 30 blood, but that still feels like a net loss with free Esteem)

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There's also a weird delay in Esteem's dash, and it looks like the new GCD we got only becomes available after Esteem used it. Considering we and Esteem lost plunge, and we likely lost mana gain, we're probably losing a fair bit of dps in our burst too. Also, no word on any of our mits. DT is looking kinda bad for us.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

There's also a weird delay in Esteem's dash, and it looks like the new GCD we got only becomes available after Esteem used it. Considering we and Esteem lost plunge, and we likely lost mana gain, we're probably losing a fair bit of dps in our burst too. Also, no word on any of our mits. DT is looking kinda bad for us.

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I wouldn't be too concerned about damage since that's just up to potency tuning at the end of the day, but the gameplay is yeah :<

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

I wouldn't be too concerned about damage since that's just up to potency tuning at the end of the day, but the gameplay is yeah :<

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Also, they consolidated the 123 into 1 button.
Our damage rotation outside of bursts is going to look like a healer's.
And during bursts, we'll go from 15 ogcd's to 12.

Not excited for DT tbh. We're losing more than we're gaining.
It looks incredibly boring and it looks like the goal is to remove any and all gameplay friction.
Might be time to renew my WoW sub.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Also, they consolidated the 123 into 1 button.
Our damage rotation outside of bursts is going to look like a healer's.
And during bursts, we'll go from 15 ogcd's to 12.

Not excited for DT tbh. We're losing more than we're gaining.
It looks incredibly boring and it looks like the goal is to remove any and all gameplay friction.
Might be time to renew my WoW sub.

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And Dark Knight is still going to be very focused on double/triple weaving during said burst as well, like I expected it to... I'm just going to stick to either Gunbreaker or Paladin this expansion for tanks. As for DPS, Viper, Dragoon and Reaper look promising, with MAYBE Pictomancer, Red Mage and Dancer also looking promising but I'm not holding my breath on that...

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Originally Posted by Hatfright

RIP Plunge, I will miss you and the sound you made.
That dash doesn't even look like dash. We're teleporting now. Ugh.

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We using Chaos Control

The thing they pretty much said was, suffer for 2.5 years with a shitty rotation until we decide if we're gonna fix the job.

Which pretty much just means, to play the other tanks that are actually fun and forget DRK exists because they couldn't be bother to fix it this expansion.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

To the people who asked for gap closers to lose their damage... You are part of the problem with what is wrong with game balance...

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Why? In 99% of situations, Plunge is literally just another random OGCD. You could shuffle the potency of its charges to say, the Shadowbringer charges and literally nothing would change with DRK. That's a failure of design when the primary design purpose of a skill is utilized so insanely rarely compared to its secondary usage.

Removing the potency means that the new gap closer gets to be an *actual* gapcloser as it was designed. I just only hope that it copies MNK's Thunderclap and lets you warp to allies as well, then it can be used as nice skill expression for uptime purposes. Doubly so if they follow through on the 'in DT we wont make boss hitboxes the size of planets' comment Yoshi-P made in a previous liveletter/fanfest.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

As for Living Shadow, I want that ability gone since Shadowbringers media tour info dropped because Dark Knight is NOT a Summon Pet class and NOTHING about it screams "I can summon a pet" and I would rather it get replaced with something that isn't a Summon Pet, like say, another big burst combo. The only way you can get me to actually tolerate Living Shadow, if it was more like old pet mechanics where they take damage and tank for you... otherwise you are not getting Summoners to play tank, if anything you further driving Dark Knight players AWAY from Dark Knight, because if I wanted to play a summon pet class/job, it would be Summoner/Scholar, not Dark Knight or Machinist...

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No offense, but no one is looking at Living Shadow and going "this is a pet class", considering its there for 20s out of every 2mins. MCH can summon Queen more often than DRK can summon LS and no one's saying that's a pet job either.
Hate LS because its effectively just a fancy looking DoT, but to complain about it making DRK be perceived as some sort of summoning based job is just lmao.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

TAs for Living Shadow, I want that ability gone since Shadowbringers media tour info dropped because Dark Knight is NOT a Summon Pet class and NOTHING about it screams "I can summon a pet"

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You're fighting a living shadow rn thinking a 2minute DOT is comparable to pre-EW summon pet.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Why? In 99% of situations, Plunge is literally just another random OGCD. You could shuffle the potency of its charges to say, the Shadowbringer charges and literally nothing would change with DRK. That's a failure of design when the primary design purpose of a skill is utilized so insanely rarely compared to its secondary usage.

Removing the potency means that the new gap closer gets to be an *actual* gapcloser as it was designed. I just only hope that it copies MNK's Thunderclap and lets you warp to allies as well, then it can be used as nice skill expression for uptime purposes. Doubly so if they follow through on the 'in DT we wont make boss hitboxes the size of planets' comment Yoshi-P made in a previous liveletter/fanfest.

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From what it looks like they also only turned them into dashes on the jobs that already had a lot of offensive oGCDs, Dark Knight and Gunbreaker. Warrior and Paladin still seem to have kept their old gap closers.

Now it could be entirely possible that they kept the old animations for those two and just removed the potency, would just be a bit odd.

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Originally Posted by Keagian

The thing they pretty much said was, suffer for 2.5 years with a shitty rotation until we decide if we're gonna fix the job.

Which pretty much just means, to play the other tanks that are actually fun and forget DRK exists because they couldn't be bother to fix it this expansion.

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Get back to me when you found one.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Also, they consolidated the 123 into 1 button.

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That's not how it works.

They have to , if you want new buttons they gonna merge old button to do the same. God bless for gap closer do no dmg, high ping player will not die by server trash ticks.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Also, they consolidated the 123 into 1 button.

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Huh ?? Is this something they are really doing ?? :(
I really hope not.

Any consolidations they've done will be given the option to use or not.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Huh ?? Is this something they are really doing ?? :(
I really hope not.

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No they're not.
Core rotation is exempt from it. The consolidation option is for combo button skills like Gnashing Fang or the new Delirium combo.

So the rotation will still basically be 123 spam until its time to mash whatever button you put bloodspiller on.

I...actually quite like the updates we got, we've even gotten a few things I've asked for.

Delirium actually has a combo now instead of being bloodspiller vomit, and it's really damn cool at that. As much as I would like there to be more to it, this at least will make it feel better to use every minute.

Living Shadow actually does grant a new ability that both you and Fray use. It may not be at the same time, but DAMN does it look satisfying.

These changes don't really fix monotonous 1-2-3 downtime, but we still have yet to see specifics from the media tour. (I'm not really expecting it to be fixed, all things considered. given that they thought it was okay to give us 1-2-3 spam for two expansions in a row somehow. And it's looking like it's going for 3)

I'll miss plunge, don't get me wrong, but frankly I like the new gap closer more, because we actually use it specifically to be a gap closer. A movement tool. I don't like the "gap-closers" that are just used as rotational ogcd's.

Occasional reminder WAR gets to have both Onslaught (unsure if damage stays) and Primal Rend as dashes.

Plunge + Shadow Step do not have to be mutually exclusive, could've always made Plunge something more interesting while adding new dash.

But I am sure the creativity is limited to their favourite tank.

I don't mind the changes either. But if I'm being honest, its very apparent that tanks were the role they put the least amount of time into this expansion. Every tank more or less got the exact same tools again.
Every tanks is getting an upgrade to Rampart, Reprisal and their 30%
Every tank got tacked on Finishers to existing skills

With this you can tell the homogenization complaints are pretty much falling on deaf ears, as unsurprising as that is.

Regardless my only concern about current DRK is how the combined Delirium/BW is going to function with only 3 stacks. It be nice to know if they've properly adjusted the MP gain, as they didn't adjust the blood gain but that seems to be the idea for removing the blood on Living Shadow.

And of course the eternal 123 spam is probably going to feel marginally worse without plunge to use. But its not like that helped much in the first place.

I'm also curious if any of the mitigations we have got adjusted in any meaningful way, or are we still only balancing for week 1 savage clears specifically with all other content being considered disposable.
Hopefully the 30% upgrades are more flavorful than just a universal buff. but my expectations are so low that I'm expecting the trait to lead "Cooldown reduced to 90 seconds".

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I don't mind the changes either. But if I'm being honest, its very apparent that tanks were the role they put the least amount of time into this expansion. Every tank more or less got the exact same tools again.
Every tanks is getting an upgrade to Rampart, Reprisal and their 30%
Every tank got tacked on Finishers to existing skills

With this you can tell the homogenization complaints are pretty much falling on deaf ears, as unsurprising as that is.

Regardless my only concern about current DRK is how the combined Delirium/BW is going to function with only 3 stacks. It be nice to know if they've properly adjusted the MP gain, as they didn't adjust the blood gain but that seems to be the idea for removing the blood on Living Shadow.

And of course the eternal 123 spam is probably going to feel marginally worse without plunge to use. But its not like that helped much in the first place.

I'm also curious if any of the mitigations we have got adjusted in any meaningful way, or are we still only balancing for week 1 savage clears specifically with all other content being considered disposable.
Hopefully the 30% upgrades are more flavorful than just a universal buff. but my expectations are so low that I'm expecting the trait to lead "Cooldown reduced to 90 seconds".

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Yeah, I'm curious to see how they adjust the MP there, or if they adjust the costs across the board.

I really hope that the 30% upgrades actually have flavor to them and not just "it's 40% now lol", but I'm keeping my expectations low and waiting until media tour, because god forbid we see what they do on each tank at the liveletter.

I personally find it easier to accidentally overcap blood without Living Shadow, so I don't see that as an entirely bad change, even if I am a bit iffy on it.

This does make me wonder, though, what level Delirium is going to grant the combo at, and if Delirium is going to be pushed to a higher level, since Bloodspiller looks like it potentially isn't tied to it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Occasional reminder WAR gets to have both Onslaught (unsure if damage stays) and Primal Rend as dashes.

Plunge + Shadow Step do not have to be mutually exclusive, could've always made Plunge something more interesting while adding new dash.

But I am sure the creativity is limited to their favourite tank.

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animation still has impact so probably leaning towards them still having damage on gap closers much more noticeable on the PLD since the Peiste wobbles.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Yeah, I'm curious to see how they adjust the MP there, or if they adjust the costs across the board.
This does make me wonder, though, what level Delirium is going to grant the combo at, and if Delirium is going to be pushed to a higher level, since Bloodspiller looks like it potentially isn't tied to it anymore.

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My guess would be that it's going to be like Berserks into Inner Release and Requiescat into Blade combo - Blood Weapon until 68, Delirium with Blood Spiller spam until whatever level we get the combo at, combo from then on.
if they felt spicy, combo could have 50 blood cost on startup and 30s CD outside of delirium, but that isn't happening

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Originally Posted by Oizen

No they're not.
Core rotation is exempt from it. The consolidation option is for combo button skills like Gnashing Fang or the new Delirium combo.

So the rotation will still basically be 123 spam until its time to mash whatever button you put bloodspiller on.

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Thanks.
Now to just hope that the other changes will at least influence something in anything below savage tier. (doubtful)

The number one thing they need to do to make DRK's 123 downtime not be sleep inducing is to lower all its offensive CD to the 30s and 60s mark. Otherwise, we'll have two minutes of 123 with the occasional Delirium every 60s.

However considering their track record, I highly doubt they even thought about the 123 downtime and DRK will be stuck with the most boring rotation of its life until the next expansion.

"Until next expansion", lol.

I'm convinced at this point that they think current playstyle is a job identity and the only to actually tell them it is not is to kick a door down and deliver a handwritten letter in japanese.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

"Until next expansion", lol.

I'm convinced at this point that they think current playstyle is a job identity and the only to actually tell them it is not is to kick a door down and deliver a handwritten letter in japanese.

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It's also because a lot of people are clearly fine with basically eating tasteless rice gruel every day for 3 years, as long as CBU3 put some pretty sparkles on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

"Until next expansion", lol.

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been reading that since stormblood

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Originally Posted by Duskane

been reading that since stormblood

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Remember patch 4.3 DRK? Those were good times...

4.3 was pretty crazy for DRK huge buff to power slash,dark mind was 30% magic mit,less MP cost on grit and sole survivor was now usable in boss fights.
also speaking of old skills they 100% should have axed delirium for dark side animation wise ill miss blood weapon but if it upgraded into darkside it would have been cool and honestly more fitting than delirium stunt actor gut punched animation

My absolute favourite was when they buffed delirium to have 80s CD to align with every 2nd Bloodweapon, which gave us 47.5% uptime on the Haste buff.

Hey remember when speed on DRK genuinely influenced their damage by generating more MP under BW? CRAZY times.

...all they had to do was x1.5 Dark Arts cost and potency gain and all tbe "spamminess" wouldve been done for...

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

My absolute favourite was when they buffed delirium to have 80s CD to align with every 2nd Bloodweapon, which gave us 47.5% uptime on the Haste buff.

Hey remember when speed on DRK genuinely influenced their damage by generating more MP under BW? CRAZY times.

...all they had to do was x1.5 Dark Arts cost and potency gain and all tbe "spamminess" wouldve been done for...

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The things I would give to have DRK speed tank again...

I just remember the big push with everyone to make blood weapon have charges and I just kinda sat here thinking. "y'know, the haste buff it used to have would really help with that too.." but alas.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

The things I would give to have DRK speed tank again...

I just remember the big push with everyone to make blood weapon have charges and I just kinda sat here thinking. "y'know, the haste buff it used to have would really help with that too.." but alas.

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We really have come a long way that we have quite a number of players miss Stormblood DRK, huh.

8.0, surely. :copium:

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Remember patch 4.3 DRK? Those were good times...

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Pepperidge farm remembers, I miss old HW and SB DRK I would take those over the soulless, basic, interpretation of what ShB > EW > DT DRK is.

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Originally Posted by Awful

Pepperidge farm remembers, I miss old HW and SB DRK I would take those over the soulless, basic, interpretation of what ShB > EW > DT DRK is.

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As much as I am not fond of HW DRK... I take it over ShB+ DRK. Between Scourge management, parry engine, Blood Price abuse and MP management this is probably my 2nd fav rendition.

Let’s be honest here. When I saw the job trailer what got me hyped the most was the fukking dash that drk and gnb got. The rest was sleeper. It’s still gonna be 123 until 1 and 2 minutes and you don’t even have to safe 50 blood gauge for shadow, now it’s a button you press on cooldown without any consequences, can’t wait for tbn to do the same. At least gnb has continuation combo every 30 seconds.

From a purely aesthetic point, the loss of plunge and blood weapon is really not helping me want to play drk in dawntrail. Disregarding wanting to use gap closers in burst for more damage, to me plunge just looks way cooler than the new *teleports in front of you. "nothing personnel, kid"* one. As for blood weapon, putting the great big rune along the greatsword appeals to me. Delirium just doesn't convey the same weight.

Entirely subjective of course.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Let’s be honest here. When I saw the job trailer what got me hyped the most was the fukking dash that drk and gnb got. The rest was sleeper. It’s still gonna be 123 until 1 and 2 minutes and you don’t even have to safe 50 blood gauge for shadow, now it’s a button you press on cooldown without any consequences, can’t wait for tbn to do the same. At least gnb has continuation combo every 30 seconds.

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Wait you don't have to have 50 blood gauge for shadow?!? I didn't even notice this.

feels like they're just making gauges purposely a spender for one thing now.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Wait you don't have to have 50 blood gauge for shadow?!? I didn't even notice this.

feels like they're just making gauges purposely a spender for one thing now.

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They had to make Dark Knight catch up to Warrior in how brainless it is after all.
Waiting for 8.0 where Delirium just gives you 4 free uses of Edge of Shadow so you all you ever need to think about is pressing that knock-off Inner Release button to get all your damage for free...you know, like Warrior.