Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

@Sorel enough with the unique snowflakes bull???? not everyone else thinks that way so stop using it that way.

how many god dam time i have to say they could make a bcnm version with a good drop rate that is a non rare,ex version then hardcore players would go for the rare,ex version which at the end it the dam same item so both get what they want. they can even do it so ls don't make mess up rules that you can't get the item you want yourself they can even make it as low as 2-3 members.

So enough with the complaining ppl and stop with the snowflake thing it's really rude -.-

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I'm sorry, but I think you may have mistaken me for another poster.

I don't use terms like "snowflake", and I never actually complained about anything. I just offered an opinion, then asked another poster (Visch, I think) to clarify their opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

I'm completely fine with an instanced version available of the same encounter (could even make it a bit more challenging) for the same item, even keeping the drop rate the same between the two, hey i'm all for it. What surprises me is Visch, who wants to be completely unique in the game, agrees with an option to allow people to get the same gear without the same "effort" it takes to stand there waiting on a pop. This option (while I highly approve) still doesn't keep that gear "rare".

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It does if you have to do 100 BCNM type of battles until you can get the final item.
It is really simple to make challenge without time sinks and/or repetition(grind), or at least a grind that is a bit more enjoyable (than killing same thin over and over and over,,,)

Im all about hardcore play, im completely against ground kings HNM pop mechanics.Zillions of ways to make gear "rare"

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'm not hardcore or casual, no need for labels here.

Something can be challenging and take time, that's fine. The amount of time however is the problem. If something takes 3+ hours to do, that's fine as long as I'm not waiting and sitting doing absolutely nothing. If the drop rate on something is low, that's fine as long as I can try again within a reasonable amount of time. I'm okay with instanced dungeons with NM bosses doing lockouts or something, that's completely fine. I only have so much time to play on some days, I don't want to spend all of it sitting around doing nothing. I'd rather be playing and powering through challenging content.

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QFT. No one asked for things to be "handed to them", create challenging content, not time sinks that encourage you to not play while you wait for a pop.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

It does if you have to do 100 BCNM type of battles until you can get the final item.
It is really simple to make challenge without time sinks and/or repetition(grind), or at least a grind that is a bit more enjoyable (than killing same thin over and over and over,,,)

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The only reason you would have to do 100 BCNM's is if you have piss poor luck with drop rates. You could very easily have the same piss poor luck with the current NM setup, probably even moreso since drops rates have been abysmal (which is fine) since BCNM's were usually a more challenging encounter. I'm all for BCNM's though if SE wanted to create long time sinks to the current NM's.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

The only reason you would have to do 100 BCNM's is if you have piss poor luck with drop rates. You could very easily have the same piss poor luck with the current NM setup, probably even moreso since drops rates have been abysmal (which is fine). I'm all for BCNM't though if SE wanted to create long time sinks to the current NM's.

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No you missed the point or i guess i didn't explain myself correctly.
Think nyzul style , or chaine of events were you need the gear from X to beat Y.
Not repeat to no end until you get the drop, is not what i meant.

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Originally Posted by Visch

It's nice to know there are people out there more concerned with everyone getting everything than making a good game.

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It's nice to know that there are people out there more concerned with preventing other people from getting the same items as them, than making a good game, enjoyable for everyone.

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I whole point is that the gear is rare no matter what level you are. The point of an NM is you have to actually try for more than 15 minutes to get something not just roll up and have a "challenging fight" and get it.

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If a fight is truly challenging, it'll take most people quite a lot more than 15 minutes to win it (not to mention the fact that they possibly have to kill the mob more than once to get any drop, and to get sufficent drops in the group). And if people can defeat a challenging mob, then they deserve the reward. That's all there's to it.

Being able/willing to waste more time than other players is simply not an indication of merit, and there's no reason to reward it more than it already it.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Edit:Nvm waste of my time to fight with players that have a way diff mind set so better of del what i said.

So like most of you want a mmo you can log in play 3hours get best item in game and level up to max and do raids/endgame in less then 2hours. But at the end you have to deal with point system which would take you months to get any giving item but i guess they can fix that but making the drop rate high and everyone can have it within 3-4days of doing it -.-

i can't believe some of you post but w/e i guess that players are now at days :) i guess i become a casual type player.

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What you just said is that you'd rather none of those people get the best items, level up to max, and do raids if they play less than 3 hours a day than to not have your personal game.

So...bye.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings, fellow adventurers!

As some of you have mentioned, the notorious monsters that were added on Patch 1.17 are designed for mid-rank players. So for those of you who have already reached to a higher rank, they may feel less of a challenge.

However we are planning to introduce new notorious monsters with more devastating strength and a complete new look in the future. We will give you an update once more details become available so please look forward to it!

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Maybe the other R50's will stop whining now...

yea not likely

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Originally Posted by Visch

I whole point is that the gear is rare no matter what level you are. The point of an NM is you have to actually try for more than 15 minutes to get something not just roll up and have a "challenging fight" and get it.

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That's your point, because that's the only point you're actually better than anyone at. It's pretty clear that the only reason you figured this was because FFXI made the mistake of telling you that from years 2-4. Nevermind that FFXI's spent the last four years apologizing for catering to players like you with ridiculously time-wasting weedouts.

The point's not rarity. The point is entertaining content. To you, entertaining is making yourself feel good about how you look compared to others at all costs.

And that's just not very relevant. Content aimed at you is a mistake. Was a mistake. They don't even make it any more. Because whoops. Kinda got entertainment confused with ratracing.

OK. I think I finally understand where Visch is coming from in his argument. It's not so much the NM combat or the waiting for the combat, it's the rarity and inherent value of the spoils from that combat.

In that case, I think we are trying to have one argument over two closely related, but different things.

• NM Item Drops (Equipment Issue)
• NM Combat Access (Content Issue)

One is about how often you get to participate in NM combat. The other is about how rare the spoils from NM combats are.

Some players are arguing that the respawn time should be relatively short to allow for everyone to be able to participate in NM "content". The drops are a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

Some players are arguing to increase the respawn time in order to statistically make the drops less available to players and thus increase their rarity and value. The actual combat is a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

To reiterate, I do believe that 3-5 minutes is too short. But I also believe 3 hours is too long, in my opinion.

However the case, I do believe I am beginning to understand some of the arguments being made.

Aiming for compromise is dumb. Nobody has stated why 3-5mins is "too short". Except "its too short" and perhaps "too extreme change from XI", to which I reply, who cares? If there is no proper argument for the cooldown it should not be changed in any way. "I can't deal with this massive of a change without getting a seizure" is not a proper argument.

I'm having a lot of fun camping these with some friends, or with random strangers. Teaming up and getting everyones drop, there is plenty of teamplay around now! The items are nice and the respawn time keeps things active.
I'm looking forward to some real challenge too tho! (And a new r50 Bow!!!!!!!)

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Originally Posted by Sorel

OK. I think I finally understand where Visch is coming from in his argument. It's not so much the NM combat or the waiting for the combat, it's the rarity and inherent value of the spoils from that combat.

In that case, I think we are trying to have one argument over two closely related, but different things.

• NM Item Drops (Equipment Issue)
• NM Combat Access (Content Issue)

One is about how often you get to participate in NM combat. The other is about how rare the spoils from NM combats are.

Some players are arguing that the respawn time should be relatively short to allow for everyone to be able to participate in NM "content". The drops are a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

Some players are arguing to increase the respawn time in order to statistically make the drops less available to players and thus increase their rarity and value. The actual combat is a secondary motivator for fighting the NM.

To reiterate, I do believe that 3-5 minutes is too short. But I also believe 3 hours is too long, in my opinion.

However the case, I do believe I am beginning to understand some of the arguments being made.

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Doesn't fool me for a second. Visch only wants gear rare for everyone but his playstyle so he can roll around town in the best gear 2 weeks after the expansion and have everyone else lament that they don't even have gear from the last expansion.

He doesn't *actually* want it to be rare gear. He wants it to be rare to *your kind*.

Get RID of these players once and for all. Challenging, accessable content. End. Success. Players like Visch never change. They want challenge, but more than that they want non-accessable. Makes them feel SPECIAL.

And the game quality suffers for listening to them.

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Originally Posted by Lilith

I'm having a lot of fun camping these with some friends, or with random strangers. Teaming up and getting everyones drop, there is plenty of teamplay around now! The items are nice and the respawn time keeps things active.
I'm looking forward to so real challenge too tho! (And a new r50 Bow!!!!!!!)

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Exactly. Shorter spawn times encourage teaming up with other people, even strangers -> Good.
Long spawn times encourage hating and foaming at the mouth on anyone that happens to be in sight as you wait for a pop -> Bad.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Nobody has stated why 3-5mins is "too short". Except "its too short" and perhaps "too extreme change from XI", to which I reply, who cares? If there is no proper argument for the cooldown it should not be changed in any way. "I can't deal with this massive of a change without getting a seizure" is not a proper argument.

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Fair enough. There is no practical difference between a 5-minute respawn and a 10-minute respawn, except an additional 5 minute wait.

But there is something to be said for having "some" wait in between spawns. Like I said before, it is mostly psychological, but I still see some value in it.

It's when the wait makes participating in the content completely impractical (e.g. staying up until 1am for a 5-hour respawn because you decide to tuck you kids into bed at 8pm). That's not only not necessary, but also discouraging for players.

At this time I think that the choose of a very short repop-time is right. I would not be happy to "fight" to take down a NM that drops mid-equip, moreover rare-ex.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

But there is something to be said for having "some" wait in between spawns. Like I said before, it is mostly psychological, but I still see some value in it.

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The longer the spawn rate, the less teamwork is encouraged, as people decide it's better to solo to have a higher chance at the drop if they get it, than to work with others and sharing the loot.

The 5 minutes spawn is the sweet spot that ensures that a bigger group will make the mob spawn more times (getting more chances at dropping the item), instead of taking more than 5 minutes soloing or with a small group, and making the mob skip every other spawn.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

I guess it all depends on what you definitions as low-rank, med-rank, and high-rank.

Currently, the highest rank is 50. Adding a ten-rank spread, that makes high-rank = 40-50. Working backwards, mid-rank is 25. Adding a ten-rank spread with 25 as the midpoint makes mid-rank = 20-30. Low-rank would be anything below 20.

This is all just my opinion, though. Others may have different definitions in there mind of what it means to be high & low rank. However the case, it will be difficult to have a discussion if we don't know what each of us means when we use certain terms.

In any case, I think 2 hours should be the absolute maximum respawn time for the highest rank NMs. Any longer than that, you make those NMs practically inaccessible to any player that works 9-5 and has children ... no matter their rank.

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So if we get Jormy/Tiamat style NMs, you want them to pop every 2 hours? Now, that is something I am definitely against. The whole point of those fights was that they were epic. Making them pop every 2 hours would defeat the purpose entirely.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

When you say "try" do you mean "wait"? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually honestly asking. I just want to know.

I'm my opinion, NMs are more about the "challenging fight". If your party wins that fight they get the spoils.

I guess one could argue that the spoils become more psychologically valuable if you had to wait an excessive period of time before you had a chance to fight and get those spoils. Personally, "waiting" seems a more illusionary achievement than actually defeating the NM. But that's just me.

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Let's make a distinction here. Are we talking about repop timer or a pop window? I can handle a smaller window so long as the repop timer is not short.

Hell, 5 minutes is enough to get out of the way before the NM pops again. Any longer is not necessary, any shorter is not practical.

NM rewards are the last kind of rewards that need to be made rare. Leave that kind of reward up to content that can not be bottlenecked. This is casual, lighthearted content and you better start thinking it like that, because XI is not coming back no matter how much you want it to.

seeing how much discussion this have brought i would remove any worthy/high level/rare gear from world nms.
Would put it instead on dungeons,with tier succession of some kind.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Aiming for compromise is dumb. Nobody has stated why 3-5mins is "too short". Except "its too short" and perhaps "too extreme change from XI", to which I reply, who cares? If there is no proper argument for the cooldown it should not be changed in any way. "I can't deal with this massive of a change without getting a seizure" is not a proper argument.

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I'm a FFXI vet, and I can tell you first hand that a good portion (but not all) of the players are masochists. They complain about everything. It's like if you were locked up in a cave your entire life, and you suddenly find a way to get out. You see the sunlight, then complain it's too bright, and you want to go back in. They are very very very afraid of change :P

Like it or not SE is not going back to the old staple of having 3~24 hour nm pops. If you haven't been paying attention to XI lately the NM's outside of abyssea are about to have pop time reductions all around. Even the land kings are going to see a massive redux. As I said before Notorious Monsters should be notorious because of their difficulty to kill, not notorious because of their timmers. Spawn time =/= difficulty, it just means exclusion of people with windowed playtimes. If you're worried about everyone wearing the same gear as you, it's going to happen if the gear is good enough. For those saying they don't want to see everyone going around with the awesome gear, even if the spawn timmer was 6 hours and it had a horrid droprate; you'd only get to lord that special gear around for a few months before you'd start seeing a lot of other people trotting around with it.

This is XIV. This is not XI, and this is not WoW. The dev team knows what they're doing, so have a little patience. If you don't find this content enjoyable, then wait till they add the endgame stuff (which probably won't be for a while since it's still F2P and the battle system is being reworked). I've gotten maat's cap before abyssea, I've done limbus, I've done sky, I've done dynamis, I've done abyssea, I've tagged along for HNMs, I've done salvage, etc... I have hardcored in xi big time. I like XIV's change of pace from XI. I think the dev team knows what they're doing, and I think by summer it's going to make a big turnaround.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

No. I didn't. I obviously talked about "Some", and it's rather obvious that some people around here are quite clearly giving the timesink aspect of old-style nm hunting a higher priority than any kind of challenge.

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Engineered timesinks are retarded. It adds no challenge whatsoever to a game. Period.

It's a game mechanic that no longer adds substance to a game, instead taking away from the game. The point a hardcore player should always go for is the level of challenge.

Let's say we have a NM that takes only a specific type of damage, be it piercing or elemental. The average hardcore player won't know that, and he waltzes up and starts beatin' on that NM.

"WTF? Y NO DMG?"

While those who are smart enough to actually analyze the monster would figure out the answer and promptly drub the pissant.

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

I'm a FFXI vet, and I can tell you first hand that a good portion (but not all) of the players are masochists. They complain about everything. It's like if you were locked up in a cave your entire life, and you suddenly find a way to get out. You see the sunlight, then complain it's too bright, and you want to go back in. They are very very very afraid of change :P

Like it or not SE is not going back to the old staple of having 3~24 hour nm pops. If you haven't been paying attention to XI lately the NM's outside of abyssea are about to have pop time reductions all around. Even the land kings are going to see a massive redux. As I said before Notorious Monsters should be notorious because of their difficulty to kill, not notorious because of their timmers. Spawn time =/= difficulty, it just means exclusion of people with windowed playtimes. If you're worried about everyone wearing the same gear as you, it's going to happen if the gear is good enough. For those saying they don't want to see everyone going around with the awesome gear, even if the spawn timmer was 6 hours and it had a horrid droprate; you'd only get to lord that special gear around for a few months before you'd start seeing a lot of other people trotting around with it.

This is XIV. This is not XI, and this is not WoW. The dev team knows what they're doing, so have a little patience. If you don't find this content enjoyable, then wait till they add the endgame stuff (which probably won't be for a while since it's still F2P and the battle system is being reworked). I've gotten maat's cap before abyssea, I've done limbus, I've done sky, I've done dynamis, I've done abyssea, I've tagged along for HNMs, I've done salvage, etc... I have hardcored in xi big time. I like XIV's change of pace from XI. I think the dev team knows what they're doing, and I think by summer it's going to make a big turnaround.

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Once again, we need to make a distinction. Are we talking about repop timers or pop windows? I have a feeling that a lot of people are getting their wires crossed.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

Once again, we need to make a distinction. Are we talking about repop timers or pop windows? I have a feeling that a lot of people are getting their wires crossed.

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The effect is pretty much similar. With pop windows you can go do other stuff in the meanwhile (still sinking a lot of time in traveling) or go afk (which is what most do, but it's silly to setup a game so that it can be enjoyed only once every X hours), but you make the pop much more predictable, which means that it will be even more overcamped turning it into an equally bad timesink.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

So if we get Jormy/Tiamat style NMs, you want them to pop every 2 hours? Now, that is something I am definitely against. The whole point of those fights was that they were epic. Making them pop every 2 hours would defeat the purpose entirely.

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Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The effect is pretty much similar. With pop windows you can go do other stuff in the meanwhile (still sinking a lot of time in traveling) or go afk (which is what most do, but it's silly to setup a game so that it can be enjoyed only once every X hours), but you make the pop much more predictable, which means that it will be even more overcamped turning it into an equally bad timesink.

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I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

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Exactly. There's *NOTHING* epic in waiting and yawning. What is (or can be) epic is the fighting itself. If a fight is not epic, the problem is in the battle, not in the lack of timewasting before it.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

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There's no reason for them not to. To make a fight epic, you *actually make the fight epic* (IE: make the encounter challenging, well balanced, with a cliffhanger of phases and so forth). You don't make getting to it more boring and it's spawn overcamped.

There's really nothing epic in an army of goons standing in a spot, then some of the goons get to fight, while the others stand behind and watch.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

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But why would it be a horrible decision? What is the value that you see being lost by making HNMs respawn every 2 hours? No sarcasm. I'm honestly asking for your thoughts on this.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I don't see a problem with long repops so long as the windows aren't excessive. But really, Jormy-like HNMs should not be popping every 2 hours. That would be a horrible decision, as I see it.

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Come on. Everyone keeps saying "they should not be popping so fast", but nobody is giving any reason why this is such a sacrilege. Even in XI the wyrms could have been up for days before they were killed at best. What's the damn difference? It doesn't take away from the monster's epicness due to it's immense strength and size, not it's rarity. It is an inspiration for the lower level people "someday I will be fighting her too!"

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Well I guess it depends on how one defines an "epic" fight. Personally, I take an epic fight to mean that the actual combat was epic. I personally don't believe epic is the correct adjective to describe waiting over 3 hours to fight a particular enemy. That is unless I am fighting through minions for 3 hours to get to the NM boss. That would be truly epic. But just waiting for a game timer ... not so much, methinks.

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It's all part of the appeal. No one is wrong here. It's about personal preference.

If you can fight Jorm every 2 hours, that fight would soon cease to become special. At least in my opinion. I don't want those epic fights, however you want to define it, to become the norm. I want them to occur rarely, thus enhancing the experience.

I would like to see random spawn NMs (of all levels) pop in multiple places across multiple zones. Eliminate the camping. Just ensure that the area is level appropriate and flag it as a possible spawn point for an appropriate level NM.

Spawned NMs can (and should) remain location-specific.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

If you can fight Jorm every 2 hours, that fight would soon cease to become special. At least in my opinion. I don't want those epic fights, however you want to define it, to become the norm. I want them to occur rarely, thus enhancing the experience.

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Even if Vrtra or Jormy was up, that didn't automatically mean they ceased to be special. They were so hard that they were special, even if they were always up initially. And like it or not, the wyrms did cease to be special and at that point the repop times became an annoying hindrance and nothing else. There was nothing "epic" about the fight anymore, so why the hell do we need to wait for it to pop? It's a routine procedure at best.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Come on. Everyone keeps saying "they should not be popping so fast", but nobody is giving any reason why this is such a sacrilege. Even in XI the wyrms could have been up for days before they were killed at best. What's the damn difference? It doesn't take away from the monster's epicness due to it's immense strength and size, not it's rarity. It is an inspiration for the lower level people "someday I will be fighting her too!"

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I have given plenty of reasons. The main reason is that short repops undermine the experience. The big fights would cease to feel special if you could take part in them every 2 hours. I cannot for the life of me imagine why people would want such short repop timers for every NM. Is there no compromise here? I'm not complaining about the timers for these NMs; however, there has to be a balance.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

If you can fight Jorm every 2 hours, that fight would soon cease to become special. At least in my opinion. I don't want those epic fights, however you want to define it, to become the norm. I want them to occur rarely, thus enhancing the experience.

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The fact that they require an ogranized group linkshell, with an high number of people gathering the the same place at the same time, to fight a challenging monster already secures the fact that such fights are not the "norm".

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Originally Posted by Clydey

The main reason is that short repops undermine the experience.

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No, it doesn't. What undermines the experience is a fight *in itself* not being fun. Waiting in line to get a shot at a mob like at a supermarket cashier is honestly ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

Once again, we need to make a distinction. Are we talking about repop timers or pop windows? I have a feeling that a lot of people are getting their wires crossed.

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I was talking about the flat out timmers for nms. When I say 3~24 I'm not including windows. As Abriael said though, it's pretty much the same effect. The windows were in place to combat the same ls claiming over and over again with the other situation you talked about.

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but you make the pop much more predictable, which means that it will be even more overcamped turning it into an equally bad timesink.

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It's not as bad in XI now since hardly anyone gives a crap anymore, but what you end up with is a NM that everyone wants. People would get the ToD then you'd get to play the waiting game for however long the window was. The exclusion led to greed, botting, MPK'ing, and mob stealing.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Even if Vrtra or Jormy was up, that didn't automatically mean they ceased to be special. They were so hard that they were special, even if they were always up initially. And like it or not, the wyrms did cease to be special and at that point the repop times became an annoying hindrance and nothing else. There was nothing "epic" about the fight anymore, so why the hell do we need to wait for it to pop? It's a routine procedure at best.

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No, it becomes routine if you shorten the timers to the extreme. Indeed, that's the very definition of routine. There is nothing routine about fighting an HNM that takes days to spawn. If they ceased to be special for you, then that is your problem. I can only imagine how routine those mobs would have become if they had popped every 2 hours, as you seem to be suggesting.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

But why would it be a horrible decision? What is the value that you see being lost by making HNMs respawn every 2 hours? No sarcasm. I'm honestly asking for your thoughts on this.

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Because they would happen too frequently. It would become the norm.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

No, it becomes routine if you shorten the timers to the extreme. Indeed, that's the very definition of routine. There is nothing routine about fighting an HNM that takes days to spawn. If they ceased to be special for you, then that is your problem. I can only imagine how routine those mobs would have become if they had popped every 2 hours, as you seem to be suggesting.

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Actually a routine is simply a task that gets repeated over a period of time. Whether it's two hours or two days or two minutes, it still becomes a routine.

On the other hand drastically reducing accessibility to content means that the developer effectively developed content for just the few people that manage to get a shot at it. Advocating such a possibility in a game that already *lacks* content is rather funny.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

Because they would happen too frequently. It would become the norm.

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"too frequently" is arbitrary.
Even with a short respawn timer, linkshells would have to organize in order to bring a sufficent number of people with the right class mix to the fight (if it's challenging enough). Which, by itself, makes the situation different than "the norm".

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

I was talking about the flat out timmers for nms. When I say 3~24 I'm not including windows. As Abriael said though, it's pretty much the same effect. The windows were in place to combat the same ls claiming over and over again with the other situation you talked about.

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Well, there's actually a huge difference because it isn't much of a time sink if you only have to wait, for example, half an hour. Take an NM that pops every 24 hours, but you know that it will pop within a half hour window. It ceases to be a time sink. What is the issue with that?

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Originally Posted by Clydey

No, it becomes routine if you shorten the timers to the extreme. Indeed, that's the very definition of routine. There is nothing routine about fighting an HNM that takes days to spawn. If they ceased to be special for you, then that is your problem. I can only imagine how routine those mobs would have become if they had popped every 2 hours, as you seem to be suggesting.

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Fighting a HNM that spawns every couple of days remains routine if you do it all the time. Routine involves repetitive actions, whether is is every 5 minutes, everyday, every week or every respwan.
Routine: "A prescribed, detailed course of action to be followed regularly; a standard procedure."