With Apologies to Sena Bryer

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Originally Posted by AdmiralAngeldust

Newsflash pal, you live on the internet. There are literally BILLIONS of people that use it, and there will never be a time where people will just "not post" stuff like this. It's not normalization I'm talking about, its realism. Its better to laugh at these crazy weirdo's and not take them seriously. Out of the thousands of comments about this VA and Wuk, a tiny fraction of a minority are probably death threats, made by bots, random people who are blowing off steam or genuine schizo's or ESL's who barely speak english. Apologies if I can see through the bullshit that 99% of the people who complain about "death threats" online complain about, especially when proof of them don't exist.

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https://31.media.tumblr.com/57d76ba2...tafeo1_400.gif

I have no idea what you hope to gain defending sending someone death threats but good luck with that lol

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

https://31.media.tumblr.com/57d76ba2...tafeo1_400.gif

I have no idea what you hope to gain defending sending someone death threats but good luck with that lol

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I'm not defending it. You just don't understand my point. My point is it is an inevitability you will see this kind of shit online, so it's better to ignore it and not take it seriously, and certainly not try to use baseless threats as a chip to try to garner sympathy when you're a shithead online.

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Originally Posted by AdmiralAngeldust

Newsflash pal, you live on the internet. There are literally BILLIONS of people that use it, and there will never be a time where people will just "not post" stuff like this. It's not normalization I'm talking about, its realism. Its better to laugh at these crazy weirdo's and not take them seriously. Out of the thousands of comments about this VA and Wuk, a tiny fraction of a minority are probably death threats, made by bots, random people who are blowing off steam or genuine schizo's or ESL's who barely speak english. Apologies if I can see through the bullshit that 99% of the people who complain about "death threats" online complain about, especially when proof of them don't exist.

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None of this is compelling.

We live on a planet of billions yes, and a relatively small percentage actual murder. It will happen. "it's realism" doesn't make it right.

Sure the stakes of a threat are lower, but we live in a time of daily mass shootings in the US. More and more people act out to "blow off steam" or are "genuine schizo's" and we shouldn't laugh off warning signs.

As someone who has a friend who was shot in the head in front of his 2 year old daughter, I take murder and the threats of extremely seriously. While most threats go nowhere, they should not be minimized or tolerated. Even one realized threat is too many, and it's nothing to "laugh at."

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Originally Posted by AdmiralAngeldust

Newsflash pal, you live on the internet. There are literally BILLIONS of people that use it, and there will never be a time where people will just "not post" stuff like this. It's not normalization I'm talking about, its realism. Its better to laugh at these crazy weirdo's and not take them seriously. Out of the thousands of comments about this VA and Wuk, a tiny fraction of a minority are probably death threats, made by bots, random people who are blowing off steam or genuine schizo's or ESL's who barely speak english. Apologies if I can see through the bullshit that 99% of the people who complain about "death threats" online complain about, especially when proof of them don't exist.

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I have a friend whose background is explicitly in criminology. He's done a lot of research into this sort of behavior, and, paraphrasing slightly:

"For every genuine threat someone sends on the internet, there's a thousand sent that aren't. They're sent because they're crackpots, because it's funny, because they stepped on a lego or got cut off in traffic. They're sent because they didn't have their pills, or their morning coffee. They're sent because it's funny. They're sent because it gets a reaction. There's as many reasons as there are threats sent, and the overwhelming majority of them are the equivalent of yelling for the guy who cut you off in traffic to go **** himself."

I have no doubt Sena received threats. The question is how many of them are valid, and how many are 'I'mma make Mr. and Mrs. Tenorman Chili'.

It doesn't change that the behavior's not warranted. It really isn't. What needs to be kept in mind is that law enforcement would track down a threat made to a woman in... I dunno, Cali? And find it came from a 14 year old boy in Maine who thought it was really funny to tell her that he was going to cut her open and use her as a canoe or something. That's what most of them are.

Tell law enforcement all the same, but shut up because if that woman goes online and posts that she was told she was going to be turned into a meat toboggan, you'll get the people coming out of the woodwork to argue what bones would make the best skis for it. That doesn't mean the internet's full of human-vehicle conversion serial killers, it means it's funny to be an ***hole.

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Originally Posted by AdmiralAngeldust

I'm not defending it. You just don't understand my point. My point is it is an inevitability you will see this kind of shit online, so it's better to ignore it and not take it seriously, and certainly not try to use baseless threats as a chip to try to garner sympathy when you're a shithead online.

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Oh no I understand you completely. I just disagree with you that we should "just ignore it" when people are being a shithead to people. You know, like any decent person would, would you want people to "just ignore it" when people are being a shithead and sending death threats to you?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Now this is a fact. (Blaze Blue is better than Guilty Gear)

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Worst take in this thread, and there's some stiff competition.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Worst take in this thread, and there's some stiff competition.

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Clearly it is not a fact, that part was a joke. Though I do think BB is better than GG on a personal level. I prefer GG and BB's neutral game is different and I prefer BB's over GG. Also in terms of gameplay I love the longer combos in BB. By no means do I really think BB is factual better, it was just an comment. Both have a place I just prefer BB over GG.

It's extremely simple

Death threats = bad
Wuk Lamat = bad
Wuk Lamat Voice Acting = bad
Sena = bad

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

I didn't like the job she did with Wuk Lamat but I stopped mentioning it because genuinely I saw nothing but the grossest, nastiest comments laden with transphobia and all kinds of stuff completely unrelated to the VA job she did attached to the majority of people criticizing her work after a certain point.

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I remember you being present when people from latam was saying her accent is fake but no, that's all you saw.

I guess I'm transphobic for thinking that she's faking a latam accent, I learn every day how there's always a new requisite to hit that label, and the bar keeps getting lower.

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Originally Posted by Midare

I remember you being present when people from latam was saying her accent is fake but no, that's all you saw.

I guess I'm transphobic for thinking that she's faking a latam accent, I learn every day how there's always a new requisite to hit that label, and the bar keeps getting lower.

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You left off the next part of what I said.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

I didn't like the job she did with Wuk Lamat but I stopped mentioning it because genuinely I saw nothing but the grossest, nastiest comments laden with transphobia and all kinds of stuff completely unrelated to the VA job she did attached to the majority of people criticizing her work after a certain point. At the start of the expansion there were legitimate criticisms, but most people just stopped caring as they finished the MSQ and moved on and all that was left were the bigots.

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And here is some proof of a thread the mods literally had to close because the transphobia and harassment towards Sena got too bad:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-English-Voice

A thread that you posted in and saw the transphobia happening for yourself. Why are you lying and pretending like it never happened?

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

...let us be honest, I am pretty sure the voice actor did not get a wave of threats as they claimed.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

3) This is the internet. Everyone receives threats or insults.

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No agenda whatsoever, sure.

Bet you would be dying on the cross if it was a straight white man getting the same abuse.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

No agenda whatsoever, sure.

Bet you would be dying on the cross if it was a straight white man getting the same abuse.

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Bet you would be accusing it of being fake if it was a straight white man getting the same abuse, bigot hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You left off the next part of what I said.



And here is some proof of a thread the mods literally had to close because the transphobia and harassment towards Sena got too bad:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-English-Voice

A thread that you posted in and saw the transphobia happening for yourself. Why are you lying and pretending like it never happened?

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And I'm assuming you reported it.

It's not my job to moderate what's being said, it's no one's job aside from mods. I'm only responsible for what I say, and I'm no one to tell anyone what to say. I'm not their mother.

And you keep on acting as if that was all you saw.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You left off the next part of what I said.



And here is some proof of a thread the mods literally had to close because the transphobia and harassment towards Sena got too bad:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-English-Voice

A thread that you posted in and saw the transphobia happening for yourself. Why are you lying and pretending like it never happened?

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The mod didn't say it was being closed because of transphobia or harassment. They said it was getting off topic. I don't see any transphobia in the final page or two.
Do you have any examples of quotes from the thread? An overwhelming number of quotes showing that there wasn't just one or two posts, but so many that that was the reason the thread was closed?

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Originally Posted by Midare

And I'm assuming you reported it.

It's not my job to moderate what's being said, it's no one's job aside from mods. I'm only responsible for what I say, and I'm no one to tell anyone what to say. I'm not their mother.

And you keep on acting as if that was all you saw.

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I did indeed report posts for transphobia, and then soon after the mod showed up to close it.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

The mod didn't say it was being closed because of transphobia or harassment. They said it was getting off topic. I don't see any transphobia in the final page or two.
Do you have any examples of quotes from the thread? An overwhelming number of quotes showing that there wasn't just one or two posts, but so many that that was the reason the thread was closed?

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Here you go, this guy quoted a lot of them: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6562718

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You left off the next part of what I said.



And here is some proof of a thread the mods literally had to close because the transphobia and harassment towards Sena got too bad:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-English-Voice

A thread that you posted in and saw the transphobia happening for yourself. Why are you lying and pretending like it never happened?

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Was there anyone saying “ I hate trans people” or “ trans people shouldn’t exist”?

I don’t see any

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Oh no I understand you completely. I just disagree with you that we should "just ignore it" when people are being a shithead to people. You know, like any decent person would, would you want people to "just ignore it" when people are being a shithead and sending death threats to you?

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Is that the reason you people bringing the garbage from social media into this forum? As far as I know, no people here had issued "death threat", even if and when such things come up, I'm pretty sure it will be deal with swiftly. So again, why do people like you insisting on dragging that crap in here? You don't want to ignore it? Fine, go defend and criticize it on the site of the crime, the heck you're doing throwing it on the people who did not do so?

If I have to guess, what you want to do is create a false connection. You want to paint the people who deal harsh criticism of the VA on this forum and make them look like they're the same as those who made death threat on some trashy ss site. Like ... it's fairly obvious really, seeing how you're going around and hand out the "you're defending deaththreat, you're defending death threat, every not agree with me are defending death threat!" It may have worked 20 years ago, but I think by now most people have already wised up to this kind of BS.

The reason I'm on forum discussing the VA's performance because I play the game, and the performance is part of the game. I give no **** to what people saying outside of the forum. If you feel strongly about defending it, go to the guilty platform and talk about it there. If you want to collect the garbage, wouldn't it make more sense to go to the "garbage site" itself? The way I see it, you actually don't want to deal with it neither, so instead you stand 1000ft away virtue signaling while covering you nose and ask others to do it for you.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Was there anyone saying “ I hate trans people” or “ trans people shouldn’t exist”?

I don’t see any

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i have hunch that it's wasn't so black and white, and those who did get offended were offended by people meaning:
"i don't like that fact that they picked mtf for this female character role, actor's vocal range is noticeably limited while the writing portrays character who would benefit her actor to be able to portray wider arrange of emotions and tone. actor plays the role oddly monotonically. i can't understand what the casting director was thinking!"

and then in the minds and eyes of some people all that looks like: "something something transphobia"

which ironically would made it depressingly black and white

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

i have hunch that it's wasn't so black and white, and those who did get offended were offended by people meaning:
"i don't like that fact that they picked mtf for this female character role, actor's vocal range is noticeably limited while the writing portrays character who would benefit her actor to be able to portray wider arrange of emotions and tone. actor plays the role oddly monotonically. i can't understand what the casting director was thinking!"

and then in the minds and eyes of some people all that looks like: "something something transphobia"

which ironically would made it depressingly black and white

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You know people can just open up the link and see people calling her a man with their own eyes? Why even bother pretending like people can't see it for themselves?

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You know people can just open up the link and see people calling her a man with their own eyes? Why even bother pretending like people can't see it for themselves?

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Yes, yes. People calling the VA "Woke Lamat", or "Wuk LaMan" or whatever, still doesn't change the fact that Sena is a terrible person too.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Yes, yes. People calling the VA "Woke Lamat", or "Wuk LaMan" or whatever, still doesn't change the fact that Sena is a terrible person too.

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You can dislike her as a person without being transphobic.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You can dislike her as a person without being transphobic.

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Cool, can Sena stop being cisphobic and misogynistic? Cause until then, I see no point in caring that they're getting exactly what they dish out. All I see here is hate getting hate. There is no moral high ground to be had here regardless.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Cool, can Sena stop being cisphobic and misogynistic? Cause until then, I see no point in caring that they're getting exactly what they dish out. All I see here is hate getting hate. There is no moral high ground to be had here regardless.

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You're making a poor case that someone is a bad person because they are a bigot by also being bigoted to her and other trans people.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You can dislike her as a person without being transphobic.

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It's what a lot of people did on this thread.... So i wonder why white knight just point the very few real transphobic post present in this thread, and say that hey are the majority.

This attitude will, in the end, derserve the LGBT community. If you don't start to realize this soon, it will turn ugly.... Because, when the neutral silent majority will be fed up with all of this, and will start to voice it, you'll have a real problem on you hands.
And, the silent majority is starting to get fed up...

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You're making a poor case that someone is a bad person because they are a bigot by also being bigoted to her and other trans people.

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You can go through my entire post history if you'd like. I've said absolutely nothing bigoted about her at all. Even used the proper gender for her and everything like you want. I simply do not care that others are returning the same level of behavior that Sena is. Because everyone wants to use that to deflect the actual points. Go on. You can check. Find a single instance of me being a bigot towards Sena. And no, just hating them for their behaviors, performance and nepotism doesn't count. That's not bigotry.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

It's what a lot of people did on this thread.... So i wonder why white knight just point the very few real transphobic post present in this thread, and say that hey are the majority.

This attitude will, in the end, derserve the LGBT community. If you don't start to realize this soon, it will turn ugly.... Because, when the neutral silent majority will be fed up with all of this, and will start to voice it, you'll have a real problem on you hands.
And, the silent majority is starting to get fed up...

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Voice it, tell me how exactly it will turn "ugly". Don't be silent any longer, air it out. What do you plan to do about it? Tell us.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You're making a poor case that someone is a bad person because they are a bigot by also being bigoted to her and other trans people.

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We don't owe anything to hypocrites. No one cares if a horrible person tries to force them into speaking about them a certain way when they don't deserve it, and they don't deserve it if they don't extend the same courtesy to others.
Everyone is tired of this dishing it but can't take it bs.
Besides, you can't force people against their will to speak a certain way. Respect is earned, not obligated. Compelled speech is fascistic.

I call Sena She to be polite and I'm used to it from talking to my own trans friend, even though Sena doesn't deserve it and makes trans people like my friend look bad by being a terrible person.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

We don't owe anything to hypocrites. No one cares if a horrible person tries to force them into speaking about them a certain way when they don't deserve it, and they don't deserve it if they don't extend the same courtesy to others.
Everyone is tired of this dishing it but can't take it bs.
Besides, you can't force people against their will to speak a certain way. Respect is earned, not obligated. Compelled speech is fascistic.

I call Sena She to be polite and I'm used to it from talking to my own trans friend, even though Sena doesn't deserve it and makes trans people like my friend look bad by being a terrible person.

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Trans people are individuals and they don't make the entirety of all trans people "look bad" by being bad people as individuals. Do you think all men are bad because one man murdered someone?

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Trans people are individuals and they don't make the entirety of all trans people "look bad" by being bad people as individuals. Do you think all men are bad because one man murdered someone?

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Three words to tear apart this stupid argument immediately.

Man. Versus. Bear.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Voice it, tell me how exactly it will turn "ugly". Don't be silent any longer, air it out. What do you plan to do about it? Tell us.

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See, this is this attitude that will cost LGBT community all they hard fought effort to be able to voice a little their concern.
If you continue to have this attitude eveyrbody will say STFU, GTFO we don't care anymore.... And your cause will not advance at all for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

See, this is this attitude that will cost LGBT community all they hard fought effort to be able to voice a little their concern.
If you continue to have this attitude eveyrbody will say STFU, GTFO we don't care anymore.... And your cause will not advance at all for a long time.

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So what do you plan to do then to silence us and not advance the cause of LGBTQ+ rights? Go on, tell us.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Trans people are individuals and they don't make the entirety of all trans people "look bad" by being bad people as individuals. Do you think all men are bad because one man murdered someone?

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Men are kinda one half of the entire human race.
Whereas trans people are kinda, 0.00001% of the US population alone.
If you were actually involved with trans issues and not just taking advantage of trans people to virtue signal and feel good about yourself, you would know that there is a scaling problem. The smaller the minority group, the more any individual's actions reflect upon that group. We are just enough not to judge people by the groups they belong to but by themselves as an individual, but naturally, prejudice exists.
Trans people see people like Sena be misogynistic, and they get too scared of being judged by others' prejudice to feel comfortable or open about themselves and look and present the way they want to.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

So what do you plan to do then to silence us and not advance the cause of LGBTQ+ rights? Go on, tell us.

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The most dangerous thing about people like you is you don't realize there is a very (dangerous) difference that extremist fail to recognize the damage they do to their platform.

- If people want to silence you, that's actually the easy fight. That's what people have been doing since the 60'

- The much harder fight is when people no longer care about what you said. This trend started around a decade ago and getting worse.

Just think what's the most dangerous threat to democracy isn't far left or far right, it's about a population that has grown apathetic to the process. And before you go and blame the population for being apathetic, think why they become apathetic in the first place.

It's used to be a moderated things with a lot of genuine support, that's why social movement have been able to gain a lot of advancement. But the last decade or so some movement have movement felt empowered enough to believe themselves can't do no wrong, allow them to insert in any situation and gaslit everyone ... at best, I think a lot of people just become jaded when we have to be exposed to a constant 24/7 issue. Remember, even when there is a war with hundred people dying daily, being in the news long enough and most just look at all those deaths as trivial evening news.

People are not telling the activist to shut up because they want to silence others, but no one want to listen to the same crap repeat ad-nauseam.

Remember even when a medicine is good, an overdose will sometime create the opposite effect. That's exactly the (dangerous) difference people like you can't recognize.

That's even assuming you're being genuine, but I seriously doubt that.


I'm old enough to remember that one of the pillar of social activism used to be no person should be denied a job based on who they are, but only on their own merit.

To think these days you see some minority is brazen enough to believe they should get the job simply because of who they are despite lacking the ability to do it.

Yeah, get that crap outta here. Just because originally people have a good cause, doesn't mean they're immune to take it too far. If anything, the history human is a gigantic show case of that very risk.

i admire your tenacity for trying to argue with this person, even though you're wasting your time, they clearly want to just paint you guys in a certain light and not actually say anything meaningful.

My thread wasn't closed for transphobia lmao. FlowerMilk is Sena's greatest warrior I guess. Don't even bother arguing with her.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

You know people can just open up the link and see people calling her a man with their own eyes? Why even bother pretending like people can't see it for themselves?

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Are they wrong?

I have no problem seeing Sena as a woman, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to.

The concept of transgenderism is still new to our world. People with various backgrounds from different cultures are going to have questions. Whether transgender man is a man or transgender woman is a woman is still on debate. Just look at Olympics which is currently underway. People all over the world are still arguing about it.

There is still no worldwide consensus about this topic, so don’t act like it’s a hard cold fact that has been set in stone for decades. It’s not.

I think people that called Sena a man doesn’t necessarily mean they harbor hate towards transgenderism. They simply believe it’s the right thing to say. The context implying them hateful just isn’t there.

In order to make it about transphobia, you have to lay a foundation where people can agree that transgender woman is a woman as an objective facts. Only with this foundation can you convince people they’re hateful and discriminatory by using the “wrong” word intentionally. None of you did that. Of course people don’t think they’re being transphobic.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Are they wrong?

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Yes

It's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Smallbunny

Yes

It's not that hard.

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Suddenly the world believes you

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Originally Posted by Smallbunny

Yes

It's not that hard.

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Never in my life will I find that denying an obvious reality in my face is "not that hard."
I almost envy people capable of doing this.

I come back to this thread after 42 pages and people are discussing if it's okay to deny someone's identity because "transgenderism is still new", which is plain wrong. This is why outsiders say the forum is used by the most toxic 1% of players. People might listen to you when threads don't devolve into hating voice actors.