"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

lmao my post got deleted

I guess it makes sense considering how inflammatory it was. I still have nothing but contempt for YPYT players though.

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lmao yeah they've been deleting posts like crazy in this thread, a few of mine were deleted too haha. although tbf I was just straight up trash posting with some of them.

but yes YPYT players legit do nothing but waste people's time

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Originally Posted by LukaRoselia

Depends on how you see it. It might be a tank player that's very inexperienced and has little confidence in themselves or knows they're undergeared. I see pulling extra mobs as rude personally and its caused a wipe many times.

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A lot of these cases are occurring in later game'd dungeons, or capped. By the time you're in SB+ content, I'd expect you to have some experience. After all, by then you've had 2 entire expansions to figure it out.

On top of that, if you know your gear is bad, you can replace it easily. Crafted gear on the market is great, and if you don't want to spend gil at all, poetics gear literally carries even tanks to following expac's gear. So there's not much excuse on gear. And if you really, really feel like your experience level is that low by the later part of the game... You have trust system, where you can practice. The game gives you tools to help yourself, and keeps punishments for failing to an absolute minimum, and yet people won't because they somehow get tankxiety in a hallway.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Because they aren't actually interested in 'taking things slow' - they just want to get by with minimal effort on the backs of actually competent players who put effort into at least contributing meaningfully when placed into a team-based activity.

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Also, literally this. It's exhausting to drag people who don't wanna even try.

I don't really mind when I'm tanking and the DPS pull for me. It happens rarely and I understand they may have some proc about to expire and it sucks wasting it, so I don't usually say anything and just AoE. But I wish they didn't do it.

There are some petty tanks out there though. When I was leveling SAM I was going at the same pace as the WAR and I used the dash skill just a few milliseconds before they pulled the boss (The Great Gubal Library). Their reaction? Remove tank stance and stood there at the door for a good 15 seconds, then started attacking the boss still without the stance. I tanked the boss for the most part but I slowed down with the rotation a bit to let the tank gain some enmity naturally and they ended up tanking even if their majesty didn't want to.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

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First and foremost there is no good reason for you to pull as a dps, but if you wanna intentionally pull before the tank, you can also bring what you pulled to the tank's location and they will naturally pull aggro even if they don't want to.
Regardless though of if you pull on purpose or by mistake and whether the tank taunts or not, the only person you are hurting is the poor healer.
My advice is for people to stop being so selfish and arrogant and work as a group, if you don't like the speed the tank goes you can always just type it on chat instead of sprinting ahead and pulling.
A healer pulling can even be beneficial, like sage pulling to burst his shield so he can do more dmg but even this, which is beneficial, in contrast to a dps just being impatient, still needs to be communicated with the tank so you don't put unneeded stress on them.
This is a team game and you need to decide as a group on how you will proceed and not force your way on others and after you selfishly impose your will on them, blame them and say they are petty for doing the same mistake you just did (being selfish and childish). You are not better than the rest and you don't have the right to be mad for there being consequences to your actions. Even if the tank is wrong to not get the aggro back, it doesn't excuse your own mistakes.
Simply put, don't be a selfish prick (regardless of role) and communicate with the team.
A wild idea I know xD

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Originally Posted by Metalface_Villain

First and foremost there is no good reason for you to pull as a dps, but if you wanna intentionally pull before the tank, you can also bring what you pulled to the tank's location and they will naturally pull aggro even if they don't want to.
Regardless though of if you pull on purpose or by mistake and whether the tank taunts or not, the only person you are hurting is the poor healer.
My advice is for people to stop being so selfish and arrogant and work as a group, if you don't like the speed the tank goes you can always just type it on chat instead of sprinting ahead and pulling.
A healer pulling can even be beneficial, like sage pulling to burst his shield so he can do more dmg but even this, which is beneficial, in contrast to a dps just being impatient, still needs to be communicated with the tank so you don't put unneeded stress on them.
This is a team game and you need to decide as a group on how you will proceed and not force your way on others and after you selfishly impose your will on them, blame them and say they are petty for doing the same mistake you just did (being selfish and childish). You are not better than the rest and you don't have the right to be mad for there being consequences to your actions. Even if the tank is wrong to not get the aggro back, it doesn't excuse your own mistakes.
Simply put, don't be a selfish prick (regardless of role) and communicate with the team.
A wild idea I know xD

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This isnt exactly what OP is talking about, a classic "you pull you tank" player will swap to single target rotation or drop tank stance to ensure you keep aggro. That is what's actually "hurting the poor healer". Taking a couple of auto attacks isnt a problem and especially in trash pulls you can frequently let DPS sit on pretty low hp because almost no trash mobs have raid wide aoes. The only point of health that technically matters is the last one.
DPS that take aggro in whatever way possible and dont stack up with the tank are dumb, there's no two ways about it. Doesnt even matter who's fault it is. If there is a tank alive and you have aggro bring the mobs closer.
I am confused about your logic however, why is for a sage ok to pull extra for the shield break but not for dps who want to keep their cooldowns as synch'd as possible. Dragoon for example wants to avoid jump drifting as much as possible and ideally as much as possible inside of burst windows. Or get out that last nastrond before it expires.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This isnt exactly what OP is talking about, a classic "you pull you tank" player will swap to single target rotation or drop tank stance to ensure you keep aggro. That is what's actually "hurting the poor healer". Taking a couple of auto attacks isnt a problem and especially in trash pulls you can frequently let DPS sit on pretty low hp because almost no trash mobs have raid wide aoes. The only point of health that technically matters is the last one.
DPS that take aggro in whatever way possible and dont stack up with the tank are dumb, there's no two ways about it. Doesnt even matter who's fault it is. If there is a tank alive and you have aggro bring the mobs closer.
I am confused about your logic however, why is for a sage ok to pull extra for the shield break but not for dps who want to keep their cooldowns as synch'd as possible. Dragoon for example wants to avoid jump drifting as much as possible and ideally as much as possible inside of burst windows. Or get out that last nastrond before it expires.

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Even for sage I said that they need to communicate this beforehand with the tank.

ITT: We discover that most people just really suck at communication and cooperation. Doesn't matter what role they are playing.

I LOVE chatting with my random matchups. And usually that develops enough of a rapport that we can work around things. The few times I have had really bad experiences as a tank/healer, it was usually due to me not being in a chatty mood.

I'm new to tanking and I really don't mind when someone pulls things to me so I can just AE them. My runs are probably slower than a veteran FFXIV player would like, but it's a decent compromise. I can still pull one or two packs while I'm learning, and they can be a little bit happier with speeding up the run when they feel the rest of the party can handle more.

I don't agree with purposely letting another player die as a Healer main or a new tank. Our jobs is to keep the group alive to the best we can within our level of skill. If someone keeps pulling more than the group can handle, ask them to stop. But don't take it as a personal offense if a DPS or healer pulls mobs to you - they are likely trying to help you, and the group move a bit faster.

Communicate and respect one another. If you are in a party finder, you are getting random players whose playstyles may differ. In game, I've had very few issues with my mediocre tanking since most people are pretty indifferent to moving at the pace that I set. I always communicate I'm not a great or experienced tank so I think that helps set expectations. I do try to compromise and it doesn't always work which is fine. For example, I haven't been to Aurum Vale in like 5 years and I shared I don't remember the dungeon and don't want to pull too much. The healer told me to stop pulling mobs because only bosses give XP. They they said "It's a straight line to the boss, just go to the boss" so I did this and we wiped. The healer then said "ROFL I didn't mean to skip ALL The mobs!" I'm sorry I can't mind read that you meant to kill some trash when you just told me not to. *shrug* I said I'd continue the dungeon normally and the two DPS commended me even though I wasn't super fast as the healer wanted but we didn't die again.

I think my point is sometimes things work out by challenging yourself, which includes having other more experienced players bring you mobs, and other times it doesn't, and it's all okay. But you won't know until you try :)

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Because they aren't actually interested in 'taking things slow' - they just want to get by with minimal effort on the backs of actually competent players who put effort into at least contributing meaningfully when placed into a team-based activity. You know, like normal people do IRL in similar situations.

It always reminds me of back in school, during times we were forced into groups for activities or projects. You always had one or more people who contributed heck-all, but still got a good grade for it based on all the work of the people who actually bothered to be courteous and put in the effort. It's why I vastly preferred when such projects were graded based on individual contribution, and everyone in the group was pre-assigned a task to complete.

I already have to deal with people at work not being courteous and doing their jobs poorly (or not at all), leaving I or others to clean up after them and work harder to make up for them putting us behind. It's incredibly tiring to also have to deal with it in a video game meant to be used to unwind from the capitalism grind and enjoyed.

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Thats a huge an unfair generalization to make tbf

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Originally Posted by Skiros

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

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It's a "WoW" mentality. They coined it. :cool:

Once again I am asking for player uninterested in performing the role to leave it alone. W2W is the norm, tanking is easy, hit your buttons and stay out ahead of the party. "Teaching a lesson" is nothing but griefing.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Thats a huge an unfair generalization to make tbf

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But are they wrong? I don’t think so

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Thats a huge an unfair generalization to make tbf

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

But are they wrong? I don’t think so

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Given that my statement has held true for basically every single instance I've encountered of people refusing to play to even a basic modicum of effort, screaming insults at people asking them to do so, and generally refusing to acknowledge any and all other options offered to them when they say "I play to have fun" (such as Trusts, FATEs, Bozja, you name it) - no, I'm really not.

I'll stop making 'generalizations' when people stop proving the point over, and over, and over, and over again to the point it makes me sick.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It will forever be a mystery as to why players who claim to want to "take it slow" are seemingly so averse to using Trusts, and insist on subjecting the entirety of Duty Finder to their whims.

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Aside from the issue that Trusts are not available for everything, I wanted to asking a genuine question - Can you use Trusts for Roulettes? If not, I'm sure players of skill levels and attitudes different from yours are trying to use Roulettes for the XP or Tome rewards like everyone else. Not a huge mystery there.

The number of people extremely dedicated to the game are probably overrepresented on these forums. A higher percentage of people on these forums seem to have little patience for anyone and really only care about themselves. That or they are just so utterly bored with running the dungeons they want them to be over as quickly as possible, which I can understand yet that doesn't mean you have to be so dismissive of newer/less skilled players/tired players who don't want stress after a long day of work/whatever. Luckily my experience in the game is nothing like what I read here on the forums. Also, you are not the entirety of the duty finder.

If you need your personal standards met, form a group for your duties yourself with people you approve of. Else you agree to be matched with random players who may not play like you. And if you treat those players as some suggest in this thread, I doubt those players really wanted to be matched with you either- no matter how wonderfully competent you think you are at the game and what a gift you think it is for those players to be matched with you. *shrug*

I don't consider tanks who are unable to handle more than 1 pack at a time in any dungeon above level 50 worthy of the time investment needed for me to carry them into content that they will then proceed to slow down for another group of unsuspecting individuals. If a tank is at the bare mininum able to perform on the level of NPC AI, then we're ok, because NPCs can actually handle w2w no problem.

If you are going into a roulette, the most courteous thing you can do is to be aware of the basic expectations of your role and to not give attitude whenever someone dares to hurry things along for whatever reason. People do not go into roulettes expecting an instance lasting longer than 20 minutes, that is the overarching community standard. Single pulling *will* drag things out to usually 30 minutes or beyond, at which point I cannot justify remaining in the party. There's usually some other unusual behavior going on, like refusing to use cooldowns or not using aoe skills "because the damage is smaller" or other similar excuses I've heard over the years.

The time for new players to learn their jobs is in pre-50 ARR dungeons or Hall of the Novice. My patience extends only within those dungeons and absolutely not into current levelling or endgame dungeons. You are not entitled to taking up double the amount of time a normal run takes when I could just as easily drop and requeue after 30 minutes of crafting or Beast Tribes. Come 6.1, if you want to "take things slow and relax" then use trusts. Grind experience and tomes to your hearts content with them instead. At that point and beyond when further updates come, there is no more excuses.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I don't consider tanks who are unable to handle more than 1 pack at a time in any dungeon above level 50 worthy of the time investment needed for me to carry them into content that they will then proceed to slow down for another group of unsuspecting individuals. If a tank is at the bare mininum able to perform on the level of NPC AI, then we're ok, because NPCs can actually handle w2w no problem.

If you are going into a roulette, the most courteous thing you can do is to be aware of the basic expectations of your role and to not give attitude whenever someone dares to hurry things along for whatever reason. People do not go into roulettes expecting an instance lasting longer than 20 minutes, that is the overarching community standard. Single pulling *will* drag things out to usually 30 minutes or beyond, at which point I cannot justify remaining in the party. There's usually some other unusual behavior going on, like refusing to use cooldowns or not using aoe skills "because the damage is smaller" or other similar excuses I've heard over the years.

The time for new players to learn their jobs is in pre-50 ARR dungeons or Hall of the Novice. My patience extends only within those dungeons and absolutely not into current levelling or endgame dungeons. You are not entitled to taking up double the amount of time a normal run takes when I could just as easily drop and requeue after 30 minutes of crafting or Beast Tribes. Come 6.1, if you want to "take things slow and relax" then use trusts. At that point and beyond when further updates come, there is no more excuses.

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Unfortunately for you, demanding/requiring all players to some unknown "community standard' is specifically a prohibited behavior. Particularly your requirement that content has to be completed in X number of minutes and people have to pull to your liking.

This is especially true if you end up being condescending towards others who don't play up to your standards.

That's quite alright, you can refuse to perform your role or "teach me a lesson" and I will promptly leave the duty so as to avoid friction. I do not bother speaking in game usually, because nearly everything someone says can be misinterpreted as hostile. People get mad whenever someone only types "aoe plz" or "its ok to pull more :)" no matter how nice you word it.

You may get another person that enables the present behavior, but I wash my hands of the inevitable argument that will occur when a single-pull tank causes an issue in a current levelling dungeon or 90 dungeon and the resulting fallout. That won't be my problem, and my conscience remains clean on that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

That's quite alright, you can refuse to perform your role or "teach me a lesson" and I will promptly leave the duty so as to avoid friction. I do not bother speaking in game usually, because nearly everything someone says can be misinterpreted as hostile.

You may get another person that enables the present behavior, but I wash my hands of the inevitable argument that will occur when a single-pull tank causes an issue in a current levelling dungeon or 90 dungeon and the resulting fallout. That won't be my problem, and my conscience remains clean on that.

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Nowhere did I say anything about "teaching you a lesson." Your issue is that your definition of "refusing to perform a role" goes into prohibited behavior.

The devs have invited players of all skill levels to enjoy the game. They even recently stated so in the live letter where they anticipate some people won't be great at the game. Most content is designed to be cleared with this in mind - including content post level 50 that you believe they shouldn't be able to enjoy with others at all. As long as someone is putting in honest effort to the level they are capable of, they are performing their role. But for you, it doesn't sound like that's good enough on some occasions.

Then we fundamentally disagree on the definition of what constitutes an honest effort in a multiplayer environment. That's perfectly alright, because I retain the option to leave groups according to ToS so long as I don't abruptly disconnect and make replacing missing party members a hassle for the remaining players.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

That is probably for the best for all involved. I only laugh in that you probably save no time whatsoever leaving a dungeon and having to join another one a half hour later. The 5 minutes you would have saved are likely more than lost given you probably spent some time in the dungeon before deciding you were too good for the group and needed to leave anyway.

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I'm an omnicrafter who keeps up with the markeboard and my daily crafting leves. I am still in the process of levelling various Beast Tribe reputations/jobs that have yet to reach level 81. I also have multiple alts, so if I wanted to get into another instance that bad I could easily just switch over to another character. You however do not retain the ability to lord the status of "tank=leader" over my head given my variety of options for my time. 30 minutes allocated to these other activities is time better spent than enabling gameplay that I do not consider appropriate beyond a certain level.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Then we fundamentally disagree on the definition of what constitutes an honest effort in a multiplayer environment. That's perfectly alright, because I retain the option to leave groups according to ToS so long as I don't abruptly disconnect and make replacing missing party members a hassle for the remaining players.

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That is probably for the best for all involved. I only laugh in that you probably save no time whatsoever leaving a dungeon and having to join another one a half hour later. The 5 minutes you would have saved are likely more than lost given you probably spent some time in the dungeon before deciding you were too good for the group and needed to leave anyway.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Unfortunately for you, demanding/requiring all players to some unknown "community standard' is specifically a prohibited behavior.

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Forgive me a moment, but... They do have AI's literally designed for the minimum expectation. And said AI is perfectly capable of handling w2w.

I don't think it's considered an "unknown community standard" to be bat least on par to a literal bot. A literal bot no less designed specifically to make the run slower than average, so the already in game expectation isn't even an average expectation.

I don't ever, ever wanna think to myself "Dang, I wish I had Thancred instead" when I queue.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Forgive me a moment, but... They do have AI's literally designed for the minimum expectation. And said AI is perfectly capable of handling w2w.

I don't think it's considered an "unknown community standard" to be bat least on par to a literal bot. A literal bot no less designed specifically to make the run slower than average, so the already in game expectation isn't even an average expectation.

I don't ever, ever wanna think to myself "Dang, I wish I had Thancred instead" when I queue.

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Here you go.

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It is prohibited to force personal views or disregard the opinions of others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

It is prohibited to make statements such as:
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"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!"

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Again, ffxiv is a business open to the public, and players Less skilled than the AI are entitled to enjoy content too.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Again, ffxiv is a business open to the public, and players Less skilled than the AI are entitled to enjoy content too.

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You're right. They are free to. But if someone really doesn't wanna actually play that content, I'd rather they use the trust system. The AI isn't ever going to care about how slow you take it, how little you interact with the game, or any other excuse to be made.

Heck, soon it'll be updated for ARR, and we're just gonna get more from there until it covers 100% of the MSQ. Once that finally happens, maybe the people who don't wanna actually play either will stick to that too. Right? (They won't just avoid it because they can't clear it with Trusts, right?)

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

That's quite alright, you can refuse to perform your role or "teach me a lesson" and I will promptly leave the duty so as to avoid friction. I do not bother speaking in game usually, because nearly everything someone says can be misinterpreted as hostile. People get mad whenever someone only types "aoe plz" or "its ok to pull more :)" no matter how nice you word it.

You may get another person that enables the present behavior, but I wash my hands of the inevitable argument that will occur when a single-pull tank causes an issue in a current levelling dungeon or 90 dungeon and the resulting fallout. That won't be my problem, and my conscience remains clean on that.

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Gosh I would hate to even do runs with your attitude. Granted Im one for wall to wall pulls anyway but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth knowing that there's players out there who just think too much of themselves in group content. With me when I sign up for doing roulettes, I go with whatever the flow the group wants to go apace. I value more on making sure everybody else is having a good time no matter their play style, than what I normally try to do. Call me old-fashioned but I always go with whatever the tank I run with decide to go, if Im a healer or a dps. If they want to go at it with one mob at a time go right ahead, if they want to pull more mobs more power to us. Im not gonna be "that guy" who just silently bails just because the tank or group isnt going at the pace I WANT.

At the end of the day though, you're free to keep on doing you, and I'm sure my tsk tsk's at your impatient behavior will not matter to you in the slightest (nor do I expect you to really). Just yeesh, I just cant help but roll my eyes whenever I read your posts sometimes.

Anyway, if a computer AI can handle w2w with the bare minimum use of any skills or cooldowns, people can too.

Least Thancred won't start screaming bloody murder and threatening to MPK people to 'teach them a lesson' like some sort of sociopath when they pull the second pack to him. Which we wouldn't even have to do if they gave Trusts an Engage button, but that's another topic altogether. Which is the only reason I welcome this focus on 'solo playability' via putting Trusts in all content levels, as it's come to a point I'd much rather deal with them over other players (if friends aren't available or I don't feel like tanking).

If you can't do better than an NPC, mayhaps tanking isn't the role you want to be playing.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

You're right. They are free to. But if someone really doesn't wanna actually play that content, I'd rather they use the trust system. The AI isn't ever going to care about how slow you take it, how little you interact with the game, or any other excuse to be made.

Heck, soon it'll be updated for ARR, and we're just gonna get more from there until it covers 100% of the MSQ. Once that finally happens, maybe the people who don't wanna actually play either will stick to that too. Right? (They won't just avoid it because they can't clear it with Trusts, right?)

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It’s fine to have a preference, but it’s not your decision to make to exclude those players from all roulettes. They are playing the content. Just not to your whims.

You shouldn't try to pull if you are not a Tank.
Not because tanks cannot pull them back but because it's super annoying for the tank.
You pretty much mess with the position of the mobs making in unescesary hard to pull them back.
Not to mention some smart ashes run around jumbing tinking they are playing Lara Croft or whatever.
There are roles for a reason.
DPS should burn the targets, Healers should heal and support whenever they can and Tanks should pull and manage the crowds.
If you want to pull just play as a tank.

If you're DPS and like to pull, may I recommend ESO or GW2?

This has always been a stupid mentality, and actually one that should also be reworded to say "If you snatch aggro away from the tank then does that mean the tank is super bad"? Cause that is what I do all the time, or so it has been lately. Some tanks just are that bad and don't know their class and how to maintain aggro.

If you're a tank that prefers pulling single groups, may I recommend Trusts? It's even the same exact game, I'm not suggesting that you go and play a completely different game even though your play style is in the minority (and really has no objective reasoning behind it).

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

This has always been a stupid mentality, and actually one that should also be reworded to say "If you snatch aggro away from the tank then does that mean the tank is super bad"? Cause that is what I do all the time, or so it has been lately. Some tanks just are that bad and don't know their class and how to maintain aggro.

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A tank has to be really really really really really really bad for that to happen, yes. IF the tank has tank stance on, you need to do 10 times the amount of damage as them to pull away from them. I find it very difficult to believe that is happening "all of the time."

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

If you're DPS and like to pull, may I recommend ESO or GW2?

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If you're a tank and don't like to pull, may I recommend Trusts?

well then the tank I ran into last night either did not do that, or I am a bad ass. Sorry if I don't speak tank. I just saw what happened and got killed. Tank apologized afterwards. But yeah. and then it happened again this morning in another dungeon. this time the healer kept me healed until the adds died. But the healer did say something along the lines of the tank not being in tank stance. So whatever on your point that you juts said. However things do happen even if you don't witness it to be so.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

If you're a tank and don't like to pull, may I recommend Trusts?

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Trusts arent applicable for every dungeon yet. So your response is a bit intellectually lazy.

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Originally Posted by Coratanni

Trusts arent applicable for every dungeon yet. So your response is a bit intellectually lazy.

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Hmm intellectually lazy response....

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Here you go.

——
It is prohibited to force personal views or disregard the opinions of others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

It is prohibited to make statements such as:
….
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!"

——

Again, ffxiv is a business open to the public, and players Less skilled than the AI are entitled to enjoy content too.

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Good thing it’s not prohibited to kick someone for what can be deemed as “difference of play style”. I won’t say a word. Just initiate the vote on people who don’t want to raise their level of play to the average at minimum. No longer my problem once they’re gone

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

If you're a tank and don't like to pull, may I recommend Trusts?

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Sorry, Trusts aren't available in all content yet, you must deal with the single pulling tanks until then.

I entered a duty once and the tank had a macro stating that they play with one hand and they apologize for the inconvenience if the run is slow. That tank was a better tank than a good portion of the general community I have encountered. Probably a better tank than some of the people in this thread arguing on the side of laziness under the guise of "tankxiety" in 60+ content.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Sorry, Trusts aren't available in all content yet, you must deal with the single pulling tanks until then.

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Even then unless you can Roulette with trusts for those rewards, they will still have to. The roulettes give bonuses specifically as a reward to encourage grouping with random players in the greater community, so it is what it is if you want those rewards.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

You shouldn't try to pull if you are not a Tank.
Not because tanks cannot pull them back but because it's super annoying for the tank.
You pretty much mess with the position of the mobs making in unescesary hard to pull them back.
Not to mention some smart ashes run around jumbing tinking they are playing Lara Croft or whatever.
There are roles for a reason.
DPS should burn the targets, Healers should heal and support whenever they can and Tanks should pull and manage the crowds.
If you want to pull just play as a tank.

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As a Tank-In-Progress I love when people pull more for me. Makes my job not annoying, but easier. Last night for example - I got Copperbell Mines. My least favorite dungeon in the game as I find it so boring. I have no idea what a healer can handle at level 20, but the healer rushed ahead and pulled wall to wall and I just ran after her and picked up everything and to my surprise for that dungeon, no one died and I barely lost much HP. Wall-to-Wall Copperbell isn't something I've had seen before in my personal play experience, so it's not something I would have attempted. So, she taught me something and I thanked her for pulling. She thanked me for tanking in a Speedo. Wins for all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Good thing it’s not prohibited to kick someone for what can be deemed as “difference of play style”. I won’t say a word. Just initiate the vote on people who don’t want to raise their level of play to the average at minimum. No longer my problem once they’re gone

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If you vote kick because they are not pulling enough (IN YOUR OPINION) and otherwise doing their role and not being disruptive, and you can still clear the content - this is still an infraction for which you can be reported. You may want to review.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...5382&kid=68216

Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss
Refers to the act of dismissing a player in a way that is unjustified under the intended use of Vote Dismiss.
Key Points
If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

Please note that Square Enix may conduct investigations and issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed if the act was confirmed publicly through online video, streaming services, or other means.

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The spirit of these rules is to create a welcoming environment for the game's playerbase, and that includes people with less skill and differing playstyles. As far as I'm aware, "Difference in playstyle" comes from 6 years ago - and these prohibited activities supplanted that.

If you are unaware of why you can vote dismiss - here is an image of a vote dismiss: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/f/f7/151712.png

- AFK
- Offline
- Harassment
- Cheating

I don't see "difference in playstyle" anywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

If you are unaware of why you can vote dismiss - here is an image of a vote dismiss: https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/f/f7/151712.png

- AFK
- Offline
- Harassment
- Cheating

I don't see "difference in playstyle" anywhere.

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Here is an official response from a GM on the matter.

https://i.imgur.com/wEZmGa8.png