So, Mog station here we are

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

You really need to stop crying over nothing. Maybe reflect on yourself and why you're so upset over an ad and its wording. It's an ad. It amounts to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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I'm not crying. I'm not upset. I've professionally critiqued the marketing from a marketing standpoint and people tell me I'm critiquing "literally nothing".

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Originally Posted by Edax

Yes and people get upset about FFXIV, a virtual game that they don't have to play, an optional game that doesn't make them better then any other. And they come to a place known as a "forum", a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. This has been happening before the quarantine.

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Genuinely not sure what you're upset about though?? My last post was snarky so sorry about that but genuinely, what is your complaint? That they made a bad advertisement? That it used the same kind of negative connotation that those obnoxious makeup ads on TV do all the time and maybe could've done better? Is it the ad, or the dress or the mog station, or what?

Like I seriously don't even know what the debate here is anymore.

Seems like it might be partially miscommunication here because the original comment on the ad that people were responding to was that SE was bashing their own in game outfits and calling everything available in game mundane to push more people to buy mog station outfits, which I still think is one heck of a stretch.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Genuinely not sure what you're upset about though?? My last post was snarky so sorry about that but genuinely, what is your complaint? That they made a bad advertisement? That it used the same kind of negative connotation that those obnoxious makeup ads on TV do all the time and maybe could've done better? Is it the ad, or the dress or the mog station, or what?

Like I seriously don't even know what the debate here is anymore.

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I'm saying they could do a better job with their advertisement which is why I offered constructive criticism and alternative taglines, but others are countering that it is "literally nothing".

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Except you weren't giving constructive criticism, and also used the very word you were so upset about to insult someone else.

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To prove a point that "mundane" was not a word you should be referring to people because they referred to it as nothing. Few people want to be called mundane so it's not nothing. You yourself acknowledged that it is an insult.

Disagreeing with something is not equal to being upset or angry. It's a real shame that thoughtful, productive posts are treated with such disdain around these parts - and I say that as someone who is rather indifferent on the subject of the Mog Station itself.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I'm saying they could do a better job with their advertisement which is why I offered constructive criticism and alternative taglines, but others are countering that it is "literally nothing".

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Except you weren't giving constructive criticism, and also used the very word you were so upset about to insult someone else.

And when presented with the definition the marketing was using, got vehemently disagreeable.

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To prove a point that "mundane" was not a word you should be referring to people because they referred to it as nothing. Few people want to be called mundane so it's not nothing. You yourself understand it is an insult.

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No, I don't think the word is insulting, but you do, and attempted to use it as such, which is what I was referring to. The fact that you think it is an insulting thing to say but used it against someone else rather invalidates your opinion being constructive in my opinion.

I'm not sure if I want to know what are last few pages about...

Just when you think the thread couldn't devolve any further...

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

You're the only one acting like SE is being offensive with an advertisement. You're wasting your own time at this point.

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I think this is a very hard case of "Am I out of touch? No... It's the children who are wrong."

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Originally Posted by Edax

It's a common marketing tactic, but one that results in fewer sales because consumers inherently don't like being talked down to. You use it to target a specific demographic but at the risk of harming the goodwill with everyone else outside of the demographic, which is why it's a no-no. It's the kind of tactic employed by individual salesman trying to one up the other if they have the right charisma, but it's not the kind of tactic the whole marketing team would want to employ.

https://0e5e693ad834c5ded1e039d9-vns...-sign-copy.jpg

"Make your customer look good, and they will love you for it. Make them look bad, and they will resent you and wait eagerly for the chance to get even." - https://zatomarketing.com/blog/stop-...our-customers/

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"You are dumb, so buy from us" is on the nose and lacks no subtext or direction. That is a literal insult to customers and is not clever or has any subtext. So no, you wont win over people with that.

The situation I suggested, however, was to create a situation where you have an 'expert' tell you that you are out of style and that this is the new direction. Yes, there is a bit of 'talking down' but that is expected as experts stereo typically have this mindset as a result of competence. The target demo being people who are keen on being up to speed with things. It was a quick and dirty example, but yes, you can actually take digs at your customers as long as its not mean spirited. Suggesting that you shouldnt do this is foolish because there is a flipside to this - pandering hard to customers or the incorrect customer base can make you appear condescending, patronizing, and disingenuous.

Going back to my suggestion, you missed subtext of it - I said It's last season, out of date, old hat. I did not say teh customer was stupid or incompentent, but suggested that the wardrobe they have is out of date. Its common. At one time, it was teh hip thing, something the customer knew and acted upon, but now its not. If I said "Youre outfit is mundane cause youre a rube who doesnt know anything, but this is where its at. Buy this, and you wont be a rube.", that would be directly insulting and putting down the customer and being mean spirited. That's something which you shouldnt do.

Take this as a consideration - your goal is to sell the customer something. So if you sell them on feel good feelings and dont need to change a thing, why should they buy your product? If youre already beautiful, why buy make up or skin care from you if they havent done so before and your product cant improve upon what is supposedly there already. Feel good is great for PR, but great PR doesnt always translate into sales. I can like what a company stands for, and not buy one of there products cause 'I dont need it'.

No, marketing is about being clever and knowing who you are selling too. Sometimes, some how insinuating the person has a problem they might not even be aware of, and your product can help them with that problem.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Just when you think the thread couldn't devolve any further...

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Yes but I am enjoying my popcorn!

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Originally Posted by Edax

I'm not crying. I'm not upset. I've professionally critiqued the marketing from a marketing standpoint and people tell me I'm critiquing "literally nothing".

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Except that the critique isn't really about this ad, it's about how ads shouldn't insult the people they're trying to sell to.

So for those of us who aren't reading "mundane to marvellous" as an insult, it's not critiquing the ad. It's critiquing a nebulous concept that ads shouldn't be insulting... but this one isn't, so where's the problem again?

This whole debate over the ad was started by the same person who spent several previous posts trying to push the idea that SE was deliberately putting poor-quality gear in game to drive us all to buying from Mog Station instead. They saw the ad wording and seized on it as further proof that SE was promoting their cash shop gear by outright saying everything in-game was "mundane" and not good enough. Which isn't being said in any way, shape or form.

(How many people would have even read the tagline, let alone absorbed it or stopped to consider what it was calling mundane, if it hadn't been pointed out and made so much fuss over?)

There seems to be a misunderstanding about what is, and isn't, part of the Mog Station store.

Retainers are not purchased through the Mog Station store. They are an additional amount to your current subscription on a monthly basis. $2 per retainer. If you get six of them, that's an additional $12 you will be billed for on a monthly basis, from your account subscription page, as part of your subscription. It is not billed from the Mog Station store.

Thank you for your attention.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I'm not crying. I'm not upset. I've professionally critiqued the marketing from a marketing standpoint and people tell me I'm critiquing "literally nothing".

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So, you work in marketing, I assume. What major campaigns have you been involved in, if one may have the temerity to ask?

so we're at "They chose a bad marketing approach".


OK.. and this proves?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Retainers are not purchased through the Mog Station store.

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They are indeed purchased within Mog Station - as is account renewal and any other payment related to the game - although it's a different section to the "optional items" shop.

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Originally Posted by Sabrenn

Today I check my email and see this:

https://i.imgur.com/7T8OSh7.png

Really SE? You're going to full on call out your OWN designs in game mundane?

This is literally what I was talking about. They're not even hiding it.

edit for clarity: this is the definition of mundane: common; ordinary; banal; unimaginative.

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You do realize that outfit is meant to represent Titania, the almighty fae King/Queen, right? Everything is mundane in comparison to being royalty.
Y'all went from "I can't dress my waifu without credit card" to "Mom, Maleficent called me basic".

Seriously, at this point you're just choosing to be offended.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

"Mom, Maleficent called me basic".

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A masterful summary.

Your subscription fee goes to Square-Enix.

The Mogstation profits specifically go directly to the team working on FFXIV.

That's why I support the Mogstation. Yoshi's even flatly admitted it was because of the Mogstation they could do stuff like get new datacenters, which have been a lot better than the old ones by a noticeable amount. The Mogstation funds things that the parent company, SE, won't necessarily fund. There's even a fairly reasonable chance that the Mogstation helped fund Viera and Hrothgar, to be honest--as those were both things fans were wanting and got (admittedly not in the way people probably wanted them, but still better than none at all, yeah?)

This really really does boil down to: If you don't like it, that's fine, don't buy stuff from the Mogstation. But the Mogstation is overall much more beneficial to the game than not having it, despite how gloom and doomy people get about not getting some outfit or mount they wanted.

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Originally Posted by Shofie

Your subscription fee goes to Square-Enix.

The Mogstation profits specifically go directly to the team working on FFXIV.

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I wonder, how long we will fund their other games, 2 more parts of Seven remake for sure, they even pushed Yoshi to work on 16 . People funding server with extra money for a billionaire company is not an achievement, it's embarrassment.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

I wonder, how long we will fund their other games, 2 more parts of Seven remake for sure, they even pushed Yoshi to work on 16 . People funding server with extra money for a billionaire company is not an achievement, it's embarrassment.

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Money from 7 also funds XIV. Money gets pooled at a company, then budgeted out accordingly. Extra money from the cash shop is on top of the budget they receive from SE. Its how nearly every company in the world works.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

I wonder, how long we will fund their other games, 2 more parts of Seven remake for sure, they even pushed Yoshi to work on 16 . People funding server with extra money for a billionaire company is not an achievement, it's embarrassment.

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I'm just going to quote myself on this.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

That's not how it works. SE isn't "siphonng" money from the XIV dev team. Every cent that SE makes from ANY IP THAT THEY SELL goes back to the company as a whole. And when I say "any IP they sell", I mean that proceeds from FF7R will go into FFXIV development, it goes into Nier Replicant ver 1.2~, it goes into Dragon Quest, FFXI, and so on and so forth; any money made from those ventures will fund everything else as well. It also goes into: paying their utility bills (lights/water/the insane internet they probably have), paying their employees, and new equipment just to name a few things. That money also goes into the Fanfest gatherings and the planning/acquisition of them and where they're held. They use the money for more as well, I'm sure, this is just a skim of what it's used for.

This is basic Econ101.

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As for the rest of the dumb that I got to see with my own two eyeballs, I'm just gonna write this in caps because while someone else mentioned that it's Titania and hm, I wonder:

DID Y'ALL MISS THAT PART IN IL MHEG WHERE THE PIXIES FIND US DULL AND BORING BECAUSE WE AREN'T THEM? I WONDER WHY THEY WORDED AN AD FOR THE PIXIE KING'S ATTIRE LIKE THAT.

It's not that deep and god dang are people reaching for offenses now. Go outside long enough to touch some grass, maybe you'll realize that an offense over an ad telling you to be fabulous like the King of the Fae in a virtual game is kind of dumb.

But make sure to keep 6ft/2m away from anyone else whike you do that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Money from 7 also funds XIV. Money gets pooled at a company, then budgeted out accordingly. Extra money from the cash shop is on top of the budget they receive from SE. Its how nearly every company in the world works.

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Sounds like wishful thinking, because distribution between projects are not equal, and if you seen their financial annual report, they milking XIV left and right with amount revenue they get from it. Even Yoshi said that they dont have enough funds to do the content, but people are fine and happy with casual stuff replacements, I don't see any reason for SE to direct more funds into XIV.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Sounds like wishful thinking, because distribution between projects are not equal, and if you seen their financial annual report, they milking XIV left and right with amount revenue they get from it. Even Yoshi said that they dont have enough funds to do the content, but people are fine and happy with casual stuff replacements, I don't see any reason for SE to direct more funds into XIV.

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Conversely I see no reason for players to white knight for the Mogstation and act like spending money there will help the game. It's SE decision to not give Yoshi the money he needs, not the players.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Take this as a consideration - your goal is to sell the customer something. So if you sell them on feel good feelings and dont need to change a thing, why should they buy your product? If youre already beautiful, why buy make up or skin care from you if they havent done so before and your product cant improve upon what is supposedly there already. Feel good is great for PR, but great PR doesnt always translate into sales. I can like what a company stands for, and not buy one of there products cause 'I dont need it'.

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Beauty is something that needs to be preserved. You don't have to tear down your customer to get them to buy your product but you can insist they get the best care for their skin to preserve their beauty and that looking the best will make them feel the best. No advertiser will tell a customer they've achieved already absolute perfection but they may say they could get a step closer to it with their product. Even if a customer believes they are already beautiful, if they care about their beauty, then they will take the next step towards perfection. If they didn't care about their beauty to begin with, telling them they have skin problems might just provoke a grudge when they weren't ever going to buy your product to begin with. Consumers can sense when a company want their money and many will instantly know that company doesn't really care about their health.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

No, marketing is about being clever and knowing who you are selling too. Sometimes, some how insinuating the person has a problem they might not even be aware of, and your product can help them with that problem.

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And it's entirely possible to make your customers aware of problems they didn't know they had without talking down to them. Maybe they weren't aware of the telltale signs of termites in their house and your advertisement was genuinely informative and resulted in a sale. Rather then insinuate that everyone has a problem, you can reach out the people who actually have problems. Instead of saying "You're always hungry, grab a Snickers", say "Hungry? Grab a Snickers"

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

Meanwhile me and other male character players are sitting here like: "Just stop releasing dresses, female NPC only gear and feminine looking attires and give me something already".

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Not just males. Some ladies of us want something cool for once, we want pants and longcoats dammit.

Males get both cute and cool glams while females are just stuck with cute.

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Originally Posted by TwiibieTwuu

Not just males. Some ladies of us want something cool for once, we want pants and longcoats dammit.

Males get both cute and cool glams while females are just stuck with cute.

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We have enough long coats.... No more please.....

We need less gear that goes down to the shins, not more

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

We have enough long coats.... No more please.....

We need less gear that goes down to the shins, not more

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Most are either class locked and/or have a boob window.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Beauty is something that needs to be preserved. You don't have to tear down your customer to get them to buy your product but you can insist they get the best care for their skin to preserve their beauty and that looking the best will make them feel the best. No advertiser will tell a customer they've achieved already absolute perfection but they may say they could get a step closer to it with their product. Even if a customer believes they are already beautiful, if they care about their beauty, then they will take the next step towards perfection. If they didn't care about their beauty to begin with, telling them they have skin problems might just provoke a grudge when they weren't ever going to buy your product to begin with. Consumers can sense when a company want their money and many will instantly know that company doesn't really care about their health.

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To use your example above, if the customer didn't care about their beauty to begin with, the advertising isn't for them anyway. You don't make ads for everyone who may see it. You target your audience. I see the ad you are complaining about targeting their audience who A) love glamours and B) tend to buy glamours off the mog station. As someone stated earlier, this new glamour is a take in Titania - the king of fairies - royalty and anything less than what royalty would wear could be called "mundane". Seems to me SE knows their target audience for mog station glamours.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

To use your example above, if the customer didn't care about their beauty to begin with, the advertising isn't for them anyway. You don't make ads for everyone who may see it. You target your audience. I see the ad you are complaining about targeting their audience who A) love glamours and B) tend to buy glamours off the mog station. As someone stated earlier, this new glamour is a take in Titania - the king of fairies - royalty and anything less than what royalty would wear could be called "mundane". Seems to me SE knows their target audience for mog station glamours.

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It is precisely the people who A) love glamours and B) tend to buy glamours off the Mogstation that might not want to be referred to as mundane. I would know because I happen to be in this category, but I happen to also have no interest in that particular glamour nor would I condone the behavior of the fairies who act like rotten bullies. If Emet's outfit ever went up for sale, the sales pitch shouldn't include a pro-genocide stance in the tagline despite that being part of Emet's beliefs. (ex: Purge them all with style!)

Are people really taking flavour text seriously?

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Originally Posted by Edax

It is precisely the people who A) love glamours and B) tend to guy flamours off the Mogstation that might not want to be referred to as mundane. I would know because I happen to be in this category, but I happen to also have no interest in that particular glamour nor would I condone the behavior of the fairies who act like rotten bullies. If Emet's outfit ever went up for sale, the sales pitch shouldn't include a pro-genocide stance in the tagline despite that being part of Emet's beliefs. (ex: Purge them all with style!)

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I dunno... written funny enough it could be a great sales pitch for them. " Ever feel like you're above the rest? Seeing how your peers aren't made for the cut? Do you want to prove your style is far beyond the sights of the many? Then for 12.99 own your very own EMET COAT and walk among your peers in style. Show them you're above the cut. Become Emet today! "

"Feel irrepressibly smug about how good you look in Emet-Selch's coat!"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

"Feel irrepressibly smug about how good you look in Emet-Selch's coat!"

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Comes with the careless wave gesture

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Originally Posted by TwiibieTwuu

Comes with the careless wave gesture

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you know for a fact that'll cost extra. Emotes don't come with coats xD

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

you know for a fact that'll cost extra. Emotes don't come with coats xD

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Gives square an excuse to bump it to £20

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

I dunno... written funny enough it could be a great sales pitch for them. " Ever feel like you're above the rest? Seeing how your peers aren't made for the cut? Do you want to prove your style is far beyond the sights of the many? Then for 12.99 own your very own EMET COAT and walk among your peers in style. Show them you're above the cut. Become Emet today! "

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That's not a genocide tagline, that's just your typical advertisement towards being a boss.

https://41z6h24c86pu1h3m6x151ecm-wpe...eejones-36.jpg

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Originally Posted by Edax

It is precisely the people who A) love glamours and B) tend to guy flamours off the Mogstation that might not want to be referred to as mundane. I would know because I happen to be in this category, but I happen to also have no interest in that particular glamour nor would I condone the behavior of the fairies who act like rotten bullies. If Emet's outfit ever went up for sale, the sales pitch shouldn't include a pro-genocide stance in the tagline despite that being part of Emet's beliefs. (ex: Purge them all with style!)

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I am also one of those people this ad would be targeting because I also have bought glamours off the mog station. I'm not offended by it, but then again I'm not easily offended. I saw what they were doing with the ad, they were having a play on it and also using alliteration.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

"Feel irrepressibly smug about how good you look in Emet-Selch's coat!"

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Haha I would love that!

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

You do realize that outfit is meant to represent Titania, the almighty fae King/Queen, right? Everything is mundane in comparison to being royalty.
Y'all went from "I can't dress my waifu without credit card" to "Mom, Maleficent called me basic".

Seriously, at this point you're just choosing to be offended.

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If Square Enix wanted to give us Titania's outfit they could well do that precisely, give us Titania's actual outfit and not give us something that looks just like the real thing.


Titania's outfit, including wings is much more majestic than this half-sewed knockoff!.

[QUOTE=Edax;5344647]Conversely I see no reason for players to white knight for the Mogstation and act like spending money there will help the game. It's SE decision to not give Yoshi the money he needs, not the players.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Beauty is something that needs to be preserved. You don't have to tear down your customer to get them to buy your product but you can insist they get the best care for their skin to preserve their beauty and that looking the best will make them feel the best. No advertiser will tell a customer they've achieved already absolute perfection but they may say they could get a step closer to it with their product. Even if a customer believes they are already beautiful, if they care about their beauty, then they will take the next step towards perfection. If they didn't care about their beauty to begin with, telling them they have skin problems might just provoke a grudge when they weren't ever going to buy your product to begin with. Consumers can sense when a company want their money and many will instantly know that company doesn't really care about their health.

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No, you dont have to tear down your customers to buy a product. I said it was one way to market stuff. We're going in circles here so Ill just be blunt - Your position comes across as "This is bad cause you should never insult customers". That simply is wrong. There are ways to take jabs at customers in a way (usually playful) to get them to buy things that is more effective a marketing means than, well, kissing ass. When and where this is used is specific to the ad campaign, who your target demo is, what youre selling, how your selling it. It's not a 'one size fits all' marketing strategy, as there is no one size fits all strategy. If youre savvy on marketing, you should know this. Beyond that, there's not much else to say. We can argue nuances and what not till the were old and grey, but unfortunately I suspect youre not gonna budge on your position at this point.

[QUOTE=Melichoir;5344742]

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Originally Posted by Edax

No, you dont have to tear down your customers to buy a product. I said it was one way to market stuff. We're going in circles here so Ill just be blunt - Your position comes across as "This is bad cause you should never insult customers". That simply is wrong. There are ways to take jabs at customers in a way (usually playful) to get them to buy things that is more effective a marketing means than, well, kissing ass. When and where this is used is specific to the ad campaign, who your target demo is, what youre selling, how your selling it. It's not a 'one size fits all' marketing strategy, as there is no one size fits all strategy. If youre savvy on marketing, you should know this. Beyond that, there's not much else to say. We can argue nuances and what not till the were old and grey, but unfortunately I suspect youre not gonna budge on your position at this point.

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Well yes, you can jab your customers by using comedy, but that is a very difficult tightrope to walk since comedy is subjective. But most amature marketers often result to tearing down others to make their products more important, which is a fundamental mistake. The reason you should be kissing ass instead of jabbing customers is because customers inherently don't want to be watching advertisements. The biggest problem advertisers face is that inherently nobody wants to listen to have they have to say and jabbing customers, even playfully, can make that problem worse. This is why I suggest buttering up the consumer instead.