It's still being worked on, the WAR analysis on the tool is quite weird, for some reason it says I overcapped gauge by 270 on my best Godka logQuote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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07-23-2018, 05:59 AMSir_Johni
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07-23-2018, 06:02 AMKaivaCYeah, I saw that. But even for a beta, I saw a lot of things that were useful to me personally. Something for me to remember when I get back to that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Johni
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07-23-2018, 06:05 AMMarxam
I would say that a lack of "meaningful" content has created a community of shallow posers seeking affirmation among their peers. Watching people brag about dps is like watching kids brag about their new sneakers. Sure I can buy some but why would I want to spend that much when I got shoes that work for me already? High dps is only good for one thing savage raids in the first month of a new tier patch. After that it's redundant because ilvl creep makes content easier. Now for the next 6-8 months you got a group of people who have nothing to do with raid gear other than brag to others to justify said gear.
The rise of superficiality in this game I think contributes to why parers and high dps are dominating hardcore players. Raid gear is just for glamour and that's it. It's the only reason I pug'd through o1s - o4s in 4.0 just so I can glam that sweet looking Genji Axe and get the snake mount. -
07-23-2018, 06:05 AMSir_JohniYou gotta thank Nemehk for that, he is one of the devs behind it and is a Summoner main so he implemented the SMN analasys relatively well, for WAR they needed to consult some people, it'll take some time before all jobs are implemented but it shapes up to be a very powerful toolQuote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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07-23-2018, 06:08 AMKaivaCYeah, I'm eventually going to go back to SMN - hanging with DRK/BLM for MSQ progression for the time being. BLM is...interesting. Right now, I'm unlearning some of the bad habits I picked up before. I don't venture over to discord much anymore, but if you communicate with him, give him my thanks for this tool. Hopefully once I reach SB, I'll be more prepared for the raid scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Johni
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07-23-2018, 06:09 AMMoroMurasakiPlease tell me more, based on achievments you earned from years and years ago I'm sure you are an absolute wealth of knowledge and insight xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Tiaque
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07-23-2018, 06:15 AMNekohauscatQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeal
Hi! First off all, Sorry for my bad english. Its not my native language, and Im trying my best to talk to you guys!:)
I choose to qoute you there, because there is one thing that annoys me - Why do you call people that pushes their numbers and try to be the best they can "not normal"?
Like, for me, I play a Tank. I view tank more as a support role - I shield my party (If I dont forget it >_>), try to weak things with reprisal.. and then? I dont have anything to do, except trying to support my team.
Thats where damage comes in. I dont want to hinder my team, thats why I try to improve in every content I can, because thats what I understand under "Breaking your limits!"
You said Its boring to copy a rotation, and its not your achievment. Thats untrue. Because you, as a player, still break the limit to perform it correctly. You should never stop to improve, and improving is not all about damage, even you JohnSeal did break your limit - Or else you would be stuck in o5s first Phase. It doesnt matter where..
If you want to look at my logs, go for it. Im a bit above average, but by no means a top raider like Johni, or any other that replied before me. Im Shiro Jagaimo from Omega server, and I hope you understand what I just wrote, and have a nice Day and//or evening! -
07-23-2018, 06:19 AMSir_JohniI am not a top raider, I don't consider myself to be so and I don't have the qualifications to do so tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Nekohauscat
Especially when I am comparing myself against the people I usually talk to on some discord servers
All that matters to me is your desire to improve, push your limits and good luck lad or lass -
07-23-2018, 06:42 AMSargentToughieYO!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiorinol
This tool looks amazing! I know it's super simple right now, but are there any plans to expand it to cover more jobs? I'd absolutely adore having something like this available, especially if I ever end up flexing jobs/roles in later tiers. -
07-23-2018, 06:44 AMNekohauscatMan your best kill on godka is really impressive. xD Like my best run was.. on pld? With 4,4k lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Johni
(Until, somehow, it all gone Downhill and we had like 3 damage down stacks, and the Warrior died...xD but thats offtopic.)
Anyway, thank you for those Kind words!
Hopefully im gonna break the 5k on chardanook lol. (Or on Phantom train, but god forbid there is a Ninja that uses trick, and im To bad to get 5k without raidbuffs lolol)
Anyway, thanks! -
07-23-2018, 07:06 AMluicei375
I feel like I shouldn't add fuel to the fire, but isn't OP basically contradicting himself by being the selfish one here? Or did someone already brought this up?
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07-23-2018, 07:21 AMSiggurdArda
"How about.....No." (c)
First of all, you mixed up everything in your message. Almost all issues of bad players in one place. And these issues have absolutely nothing to do with parses. Bad players will stay bad no matter if there is parsing tool in the game or not.
I think you don't understand main purpose of parsing and fflogs. I mean, AT ALL. People (I mean, decent people) are using it for learning, for analyzing, to improve themselves. To understand what they've done wrong, where they made mistakes. Mostly for good players it's only a tool for improvement.
And I can assure you, almost none of "orange players" will blame you for green/gray parses as long as you are willing to learn and want to become better. And those who are blaming others for bad parses mostly end up in everyone's blacklist. So there is no discrimination at all.
So in the end... instead of blaming a tool (a great tool, i'd say), I would suggest you to learn more about game you are playing and your class in particular, and - exactly! - to have fun, instead of bringing these SJW-kind wars into the game.
Cheers! -
07-23-2018, 07:26 AMGenoreaper
Personally I'd love my own parser. Let's be real they are already against the rules but still obviously around. So why not balance it out for console players. Let me view my own parses even if just as a little fluctuating number on my hud during encounters. As a black mage a huge part of my gameplay is maxing out my damage, doing the most I can every fight, testing different spots to stand to maximize uptime. There is no concrete way to do this right now.
We have the "good enough" dps stones but they don't really tell you much of anything except "sure that's alright"
But let's say I want to play around with openers, check my burst windows with cooldowns vs without. Check my pvp damage ect.
There is no harm in me seeing my own numbers, comparing my productivity between my classes. Specifically knowing if this Roration is better than that one. I actually am happy to pug into a group with a parser and am always curious about my numbers. If we remove the taboo then all kinds of resources can become openly available as everyone works on theory crafting as a community.
As of right now console players are at a disadvantage and have to rely on finding a pc player for all info, what if I would like to compare stat weights, try different melds ect? Why would people want to play blindly, if this was strictly enforced to where NO parsers exist then fine, but if you can't stop that at least level the playing field. -
07-23-2018, 07:57 AMBourne_EndeavorYes. They have an outline of their projected plans on reddit. Currently, the development only consists of a WAR, SCH and SMN, which is why those jobs are showcased. It's still early in development. They simply wanted to show a public release. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SargentToughie
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07-23-2018, 08:14 AMKaivaCAre there any tools that you would suggest, either complete or in development, from trusted parties, that you would say are worth paying attention as well? I wouldn't have known about this without this thread, tbh. Could be helpful for other potential raiders to know about as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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07-23-2018, 08:56 AMIlanIts funny that almost always these anti parser people are the real toxic people who insult others and force their will on them (yes playing how you want in groupdungeon is exactly this). Also a hint for you: A lot of people who do speedruns are people who are working and want to get things done and don't want to waste their little free time with people who think they are the gods of the game just because they pay a sub.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKusakabe
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07-23-2018, 09:00 AMvan_arn
I keep seeing people throw "toxic elitist" around, but a lot of people seem to give the toxic casuals a free pass in this game, for some reason. The original post is what I'd consider toxic, as well as the followups that attempt to justify that toxicity.
Running an expert, extreme, or Savage while not at the very least being able to clear SSS *IS TOXIC* and the players that attempt this because they're just in it for a free carry deserve every kick and blacklist they earn. -
07-23-2018, 09:20 AMSigma-AstraIf only common sense and humility was mandatory and not a volunteer skill for some people...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaque
If only...
There was no point into reading your nonsensical garbage in-depth nor fast, my intellect would have suffered for it.
I have a Bachelor's degree and graduated at the top of my class, own several of my own storefronts online for my art. And you are.....what? Why should I care?
You got the Mesuline Mauler title, congrats, that makes you believe to be a better player and forum poster than Bourne and Hyo, who I have seen to be nothing but nice players and people, while you, good sir, are being less than that towards everyone for no reason.
Sorry for late response, I was at work multitasking several things at once since that tends to happen when you work. -
07-23-2018, 09:29 AMSargentToughieDidn't you get the memo? Our desire to have an efficient run with little in the way of setbacks or wipes makes us jobless neckbeards that only clear content because our evil, voodoo magic parsers allow us to. In order for them to work, we must make our ritualistic sacrifice of the innocent casuals. If you don't flame at least 10 casuals before going for a legitimate clear, you'll be cursed with a PURPLE fight on FFlogs, the horror!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
They're entitled to join us no matter how many times they die, how little damage they do, or how little they care to improve themselves! And if you dare attempt to take away this sacred, Yoshida given right, god help you they will make a very angry, passive aggressive forum post about how toxic and rude the raiding player base is.
We are OBLIGATED to give them our time, or we're the assholes. -
07-23-2018, 10:12 AMBourne_EndeavorSadly, the rDPS hasn't been updated in a while. So I can no longer recommend that. Outside of programs, there are some very good guides available on The Moogle Post or simply joining The Balance are your best bets.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
Sadly, Yoshida only threw gasoline on that fire. I'd have to dig for the exact quote but he basically said he wants veteran players to "pick up the slack for those struggling." Now I suspect he meant people still learning, not simply players who couldn't give a damn except to show up. Of course, people are going to run with a comment like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SargentToughie
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07-23-2018, 10:28 AMSigma-AstraThe classic "You don't pay my sub" probably stemmed from that nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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07-23-2018, 10:32 AMPaladinleedsoh yeah, and as a result, it's now created a real situation in which petrol (or diesel, dependent on your choice of fuel) is being thrown on by both sides and it has ultimately reached a stalemate. Now, for those struggling (i.e. still learning, or at their performance cap due to disabilities etc), I say "Yes, do support them and pick up the slack!" - especially as someone with a disability myself, if someone is worse off than me due to disability, I will do the best I can to support them. I've also spent more money than I probably should on tools to help me out (such as an MMO mouse to help me more easily and accurately hit abilities, mostly - I do sometimes still fatfinger the wrong key, damn it Razer!), because you know what, I do need to get better. Anything that'll help me bridge that gap, is a worthy investment...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
Basically, if you're struggling/learning but trying your best, I'll do my best to cover the slack and bridge the gap, perhaps mentoring you if I can. If you're just an "I don't care about others, I play how I want" person, then I'm going to be pretty peeved. I don't advocate for watching guides in learning parties, I don't see that as required (as people should get the chance to learn blind IMO). But in farm parties, I expect a basic level of competence outside of mitigating circumstances such as disability. For example let's say we had a colour based mechanic and a colour-blind member. Yeah, they can't help that. I'll help them pick up the slack. We'll work around that no issues. -
07-23-2018, 11:29 AMRanetsu-Akagane
Sorry guys we can't have parsers in game, don't you know they insult everyone and their living room sofa? Jokes aside, I don't see the harm in adding an official one.Would be nice if players on PS4 could have access to one as well.
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07-23-2018, 11:54 AMKisaiTenshiNot going to happen since people won't behave and would end up making the game's regular content competitive in aspects that are completely irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranetsu-Akagane
The fact is, fflogs makes money off people obsessively checking their irrelevant stats. You don't need the tools to play the content, and anyone telling anyone else they have to use the tools, is a bad player to begin with.
Privacy issues aside, SE needs to come up with a better tool themselves that provides the combat information from all content, and thus people won't rely on inaccurate hacking and data mining tools to to be asshats to other players. The real problem is that the existence of unauthorized tools gives the impression that things are a certain way, that is in fact, wrong. It could be accurate under some circumstances, and inaccurate under many other cases. But that real time DPS meter is completely unreliable, and the way fflogs actually operates is by spinning up cloud servers to parse data and thus they don't want to parse garbage from bad players or stale content, as it costs them money.
SE clearly has the combat data, and a way to play it back, that's what the duty recorder apparently does. However the way it's implemented is basically useless because it's not as useful and immediate as the unauthorized tools people are already using. -
07-23-2018, 12:21 PMRanetsu-AkaganeWhen I did Haukke manor (I think that is how it's spelled?) for the first time I was tanking it. We got ready to start and the Dragoon and healer ran off and pulled everything I tried to get aggro as fast as I could, once I had aggro on things the healer said they would not bother healing me as I was a waste of mp. The dragoon told me to do everyone who plays a favor and uninstall the game. I was also told to kill myself 5 times. The insults just kept coming (some I can't even say here) I ended up leaving the dungeon ,I have bad anxiety and I was literally shaking. I got a friend request not too long after the dungeon, it was the black mage that was in the party. They made an alt on my server to check on me and tried to calm me down. I reported the 2 players, and me and the black mage talked for a while and I managed to finally calm down. I've never had anyone talk to me that way in a mmo before.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Why am I bringing this up? because that mage was an end game raider from the cactuar server, she also uses parsers. My point is not everyone who uses parsers does so to hurt someone. The people who had me so shaken up did not use a parser to harass me they just used the normal chat we all use. Can people honestly say that black mage was toxic and elitist just because she used a parser, she went out of her way to check on me, but going by what some are saying in this thread just because she uses a parser or raids she is toxic and an elitist. -
07-23-2018, 12:25 PMBourne_EndeavorYou seem to be neglecting the fact we can already do this if we're so toxic. They only difference is we can eject someone from the party without a word said under the nebulous term, "difference of playstyle."Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
And yet... this rarely happens. If wanton abuse was going to happen, why hasn't it? Why aren't people getting kicked left and right from DF for their terrible DPS? Why are good raiders putting up with 4k DPS SAM while pugging a weekly clear? No! It couldn't... it couldn't possibly be your doom and gloom scenario is little beyond a figment of your bias and this abuse doesn't actually happen? My god! -
07-23-2018, 12:34 PMSargentToughieAnd here's your daily reminder, dear readers: Kisai is exaggerating to an extreme degree, parsers and FFlogs as they currently stand vary about 100ish DPS at the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Don't be fooled by the toxic casual propaganda, know the facts. -
07-23-2018, 12:38 PMSigma-Astra
Honestly, let's not pretend that raiders who already parse don't suffer from others who also parse, but those in particular may also have their heads up their butts as well. Plenty of people I know of, myself included, have gotten flack from people who DO parse and people that DON'T. There's no completely good nor evil side as both have various shades of people in them. I'm sub-average in Savage, but much better in EX trials and 24-raids mostly....the train on BLM is just rough for me for some reason.
The painting is easier and I've been trying to figure out how to squeeze more damage. -
07-23-2018, 12:41 PMJijifliI don't need a parser to say that you're bad. And in Ranetsu's case, I don't need a parser to try and tell you to kill yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
It's the player, not the application. And can I ask, what is so scary about seeing yourself not doing as good as someone else. For like... literally all but 1 person, there's going to always be someone ahead. Do you wanna hide that fact, and just intentionally play poorly because you can't be bothered, or do you want to see it, work on it, improve yourself. Become great at it, maybe inspire someone to feel the same?
Plus using the site these get uploaded to, parsers tell a LOT more than just your dps numbers. It's also telling me how often I'm sitting on cooldowns, what's specifically killing who to improve on fixing that, my active time on spells, etc etc. You wanna hide this information because poor Jimmy got told in expert roulette he can't be an ice mage? -
07-23-2018, 12:46 PMSaitoHikariYou keep disappearing from threads and reappearing ~10 pages/1 entire day later while ignoring everyone that asked you questions beforehand. Why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
You still haven't answered this question, by the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
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07-23-2018, 12:55 PMRiyahArpTerrible dps wont wipe the run, because they didn't design casual content assuming everyone would parse it. That means no dps checks and no enrages. when DPS can wipe the run, like in ex and savage you do get a lot of griping, kicks, and disbands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
It's mostly because casual content is so trivial that we don't see more problems. It's not really the good naturedness of the raiders, because believe me, we see you complain in FCs and on forums about others, when the content is 100% optional and only attracts some people. -
07-23-2018, 12:56 PMKaivaCStill waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is and actually do some raiding without using said tools. Or at least respond to a point I made to you about it. I see a whole lot of barking about something that doesn't conc-Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Wait, you know what, since I know for a fact that you will not put your money where your mouth is, because it's far easier to rant about anti-parser nonsense, how about you answer how it affects you personally in-game. Reasonably. Speedruns in dungeons and mass pulling are not a symptom of parsing, so don't try that. But seriously, how does this affect you personally when you're in game? If you're being parse while doing...whatever it is you do in-game, what kind of nightmare happens in the daily in-game life of Kisa? Do tell me so that I may understand.
TMP is still around? Huh...didn't even know they had guides there. I'll look them up momentarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
Haukke HM? The big bomb in Brayflox HM? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Sohr Khai? Castum Abania? Ala Mhigo?!Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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07-23-2018, 12:59 PMSargentToughieUm, I would strongly advise against giving TMP any of your ad money for the foreseeable future. Some really skeezy things happened with the upper management, and there's no telling who profits from your clicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
Look up other community guides. The ones on TMP are great, but there's a ton out there that will relay the same information. -
07-23-2018, 01:00 PMVstarstruckTo maximize up times is to know the scripts down to the second. For example, if you know you are going to need to dodge and run (before the fact) you can, sharp cast fire, thunder, have swiftcast ready, triple cast (best would depend on the specific time stamp) just before you have to run. There is also Aether manipulation and between the lines, using these well can maximize uptime and I rarely see people using all these for these purposes, if worse comes to worst shoot a scathe, but doing that REALLY depends how much you have to go without casting. if it is only .5 sec you lose in up time for example it might not be worth it. Always observe what tools you can use to maximize uptime, and not as an emergency button. If you know the scripts that well you shouldn't need an emergency button use from say between the lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
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07-23-2018, 01:21 PMBourne_EndeavorHalf the time those players complaining are nowhere near as good as they perceive themselves. About a month ago, I got talked down to and told how "shit" I was by a SAM with a 1,000 less DPS than my NIN. And they were actually a higher ilvl.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Will you get asshole raiders? Of course. Just like you get asshole casual players. A parse won't suddenly make a normally decent person into a raging jerk. They already were one to begin with. The only difference is they can't outright mention your DPS. -
07-23-2018, 01:22 PMRiyahArpThat means no dps checks and no enrages. when DPS can wipe the run,Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
None of them really are dps checks of any stature, where bad dps wipes it. You need afk dps to wipe on all of those. Those are all phase changes for variety's sake honestly, with the way the game has been for 3 years. Even with the harder HW rotations, no one really wipes on the vault's orb phase, or tioman's wings from low dps. I feel they are built assuming people are learning their jobs, not expected to know them. All it takes is a limit break if people struggle.
Everyone complains, not everyone does it openly. They do it in FC, or on forum threads, or in discord, or link. It's not because people are good that it isn't worse, its that most people can achieve what they want quickly enough that it never needs to go past that. If we ever saw a difficulty spike that blocked people from content a lot more, we'd get the Feast in PvE, in other words. (the block was matchmaking and the huge curve to heal it, imo)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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07-23-2018, 01:24 PMMaloraYukiUmmm but there are dps checks in dungeons and I’ve seen groups fail them sooo? Huh? I’m so confused by this?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Bad dps can 100% wipe you on dps checks in dungeons. Last boss in Vault was a prime example. -
07-23-2018, 01:26 PMSargentToughieThis is actually true. And the only times anything even resembling an enrage show up in casual content, it's bombed so badly that people either cheese it, or demand that it's nerfed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloraYuki
See: the Tear in the Chrysalis fight, or Steps of Faith. -
07-23-2018, 01:35 PMJijifliWait, people can fail the dps checks?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloraYuki
I can almost beat the check on my AST alone. How little can people actually do and make it so far? -
07-23-2018, 01:43 PMHestzhyenThe answer to this question is evident and very sad. Just look at all the people who don't even read tool tips or understand the core theme of their jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
There's a reason XIV is seen as an easy, hand-holding MMO by people who play others. XIV goes out of it's way to make sure that abysmal play isn't punished... until you get to certain end-game fights where a parser is all but required. And that's where a lot of people get a rude awakening and think parsing is the problem.