Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

Well, probably the real kicker...

I honestly think jobs, at least in the implementation chosen, were a cop-out.

While I don't wish for it to be a sudden, incremental jump, I'd love to see the devs actually start to give endgame below Savage raiding some fangs.

Someone mentioned PotD traps in dungeons, and I'm actually okay with that, with some interactivity added per se (i.e. lure mobs to the traps to use against them, or if willing to detour a bit, you can deactivate the traps ahead).

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Someone mentioned PotD traps in dungeons, and I'm actually okay with that, with some interactivity added per se (i.e. lure mobs to the traps to use against them, or if willing to detour a bit, you can deactivate the traps ahead).

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In addition to traps, I think adding a jumping puzzle(that has a switch at the top to open a path/teleport/elevator/whatever to get those who can't do it past) in a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL dungeon. That doesn't give gear that will increase your ilvl. Maybe make it so that ALL(from 2.0 - 100.0) relics gain decent amount of light/aetheric density/whatever.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

In addition to traps, I think adding a jumping puzzle(that has a switch at the top to open a path/teleport/elevator/whatever to get those who can't do it past) in a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL dungeon. That doesn't give gear that will increase your ilvl. Maybe make it so that ALL(from 2.0 - 100.0) relics gain decent amount of light/aetheric density/whatever.

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Whoa, calm down there, Satan :P

And I thought I was in a crabby mood. . . Be good, now. /hug

Probably an unpopular opinion: Eureka will suck cause FFXI sucked.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Whoa, calm down there, Satan :P

And I thought I was in a crabby mood. . . Be good, now. /hug

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But I actually ENJOYED the jump puzzles. :(

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Originally Posted by Avatre

In addition to traps, I think adding a jumping puzzle(that has a switch at the top to open a path/teleport/elevator/whatever to get those who can't do it past) in a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL dungeon. That doesn't give gear that will increase your ilvl. Maybe make it so that ALL(from 2.0 - 100.0) relics gain decent amount of light/aetheric density/whatever.

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I'd like to see a JP at the end of some dungeons that leads to an extra chest or something. That way, if people want to deal with it, they have ~5m or so to attempt it before getting auto-booted by the dungeon. Could be fun :)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Someone mentioned PotD traps in dungeons, and I'm actually okay with that, with some interactivity added per se (i.e. lure mobs to the traps to use against them, or if willing to detour a bit, you can deactivate the traps ahead).

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Why? they are random annoyances, and you really want people to slow down pulls to only take one group at a time? Cause that's what they do in PotD.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Why? they are random annoyances, and you really want people to slow down pulls to only take one group at a time? Cause that's what they do in PotD.

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Because dungeon crawling is an actual thing...not speed running everything in sight. A little variety adds spice to the game. That and it would be freaking hilarious.....and embarrassing....lol!
And its has nothing to do with "one pulling" it has everything to do with thinking about your next move tactically.

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Originally Posted by Laurawrzz

Confusing and wildly unpopular opinion: I loathe the entire concept of rotations. There ceases to be any kind of individuality in gameplay when everyone is the equivalent of a robot; all pre-programmed with a specific set of moves for 'optimum DPS', usually taken from some guy/gal on Reddit posting along with some unfathomable chart of numbers. I adore spontaneity and instinctive gameplay - something which, for me, only a healer role really has in abundance.

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While it is true that healing is better about this than the other roles, it's still not what I would call good. Good healers have every single oGCD planned out and which heals are precasted to offset incoming damage. It's very binary. The only thing that changes is when someone makes a mistake, but in the upper echelon of content forms, a mistake is generally a full party wipe anyway.

I'd be really curious how you would improve the existing design paradigms (DPS/healing/tanking) taking into consideration how encounters are currently designed.

Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Unpopular opinions you say.....
Here are some of mine that I am sure lots of people (most?) will disagree with:

Big pulls are a sign of bad tanking.

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Lol. It's not an unpopular opinion, it's a completely asinine one. Others covered it so I don't need to rehash it.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

No, it was a direct result of speedruns that progressively became easier and easier to do as our gear increases. It's power creep.

I hate the mass pull meta. The only class that has anything "dynamic" to do is the tank handling the aggro and properly balancing CDs. DPS are forced to smash their one or two AoE skills or be "bad". Healers are often left either doing exactly the same one button AoE spam or, if they're *lucky* that day, desperately over exert themselves to keep a lackluster tank that's overcompensating alive. Or be the one blamed or kicked if tank dies.

There is nothing remotely entertaining about that. Especially when alternative of regular pulls still lets you play rotations and while moving along quickly. It's just impatient people being so enabled to play the game in the most monotonous way possible because meta demands it.

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I agree there's nothing remotely interesting about it. BUT, there's an EVEN less interesting experience waiting for you going slowly. Doing rotations on 1-3 mobs isn't any more fun for most people either. I had to go slow last night in my EX dungeon because I had a 1.8k dps SAM and a 0DPS healer and it literally almost put me to sleep it was so boring.

At least in WoW when I play I have actual decisions to make when AOEing/doing dungeon content.

As a Ret, my Judgement spell puts a debuff on up to 5 targets. It auto crits on anything above 50% HP. I then dump my resource on an AOE finishing attack that travels in a linear AOE as well as hitting directly around me. If I want to try and maximize Judgment, I want to try and make sure I am using it on a target that won't die immediately, and ideally has the most HP to generate the crit damage component.

Because trash packs have "priority" enemies, I have to focus on who is the threat, while cleaving damage onto other enemies or focusing them downright entirely, while also managing my position to ensure I do not pull extra enemies. Couple that with another AOE ability that pulses point blank damage in a very small radius it means managing positioning is even more in depth.

On my DRG? Yeah I have to position myself to land 2 different Line AOEs that are repeatedly cast over and over.

IMO - the bigger issue is the encounter design utilized in this game. I think that stifles the job design more than the other way around.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

A good tank should minimise the danger and risk as far as possible. Each pull should therefore be as small as possible to make it as easy as possible.
If this makes a run boring because it becomes so easy - then people are doing things right. During a really good run one should never be in any real danger.

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Who is in danger during a large pull? I sure as hell am not (PLD). The DPS aren't either. The healer? Nope not them either.

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In a few places it is almost necessary to make small pulls, and it is therefore a good habit to get into.
Large pulls are just sloppy tanking that only works because parties usually outgear content significantly.

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Would you mind citing your examples where "in a few places it is almost necessary to make small pulls?"

You do realize that parties outgear everything on release right? It's been that way forever. That's SE's intent. Why? I don't know.

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One could also say that large pulls being common is a sign of bad encounter design.

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Now this is one thing you said that is actually reasonable and I can get on your team about. I agree that the encounter design is 100% the underlying issue that stifles the game more than anything else. You can see an example above I gave regarding WoW.

I'd have 0 issue pulling one mob at a time, if the game GAVE me a reason or made me. Because it doesn't there's no reason to go small. I'd fully support changing that up. I even made a full workup of a Eureka concept that covered my idea of the above mentioned paradigm. Feel free to give it a read.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Eureka-Concept

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

It's all efficiency>enjoyment.

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Agreed. That's because they're not enjoyable though. There's no danger, no urgency, no consequences, etc. That's why efficiency is king.

I'd fully support revamping the encounter design paradigm to change that. If you look at the poster I quoted above, I linked my Eureka concept I made last year. It covers some ideas for more engaging ideas for a repeatable battle content form.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Because dungeon crawling is an actual thing...not speed running everything in sight. A little variety adds spice to the game. That and it would be freaking hilarious.....and embarrassing....lol!
And its has nothing to do with "one pulling" it has everything to do with thinking about your next move tactically.

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I'd love actual dungeon crawling where there was danger/consequences, but unfortunately dungeons aren't that. As such efficiency ends up being the only thing that matters. I've said it a few times in this post. I'd be down to change it so that we had to tank dungeons slower, but because the game doesn't currently encourage it, I won't.

If you look a bit further up my in my reply I linked a post to a Eureka concept I created. I doubt it's something you'd be interested in based on previous posts, but it might be worth a read if you're curious what I consider to be more engaging content.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Because dungeon crawling is an actual thing...not speed running everything in sight. A little variety adds spice to the game. That and it would be freaking hilarious.....and embarrassing....lol!
And its has nothing to do with "one pulling" it has everything to do with thinking about your next move tactically.

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^ This.

itsmondayimtired10char

Pharos Sirius on release was a good difficulty for a dungeon, pity they went on a constant decline after that out of fear from people autobailing their roulettes as they do.

Also sharing the Eureka opinion... as Diadem seemed to also attempt to appease oldXI fans as it reminded me of those city dynamis runs I'd fall asleep on... but diadem should be the "not that" example so i'm not in despair for now.

I guess you dont do potd that much. Those traps add nothing to the game, because there's really only one way to deal with them; pull mobs to safe spots. At best they randomly screw a dps over by making them a frog now and then, or the lovely paci/silence trap which you wait out unless the healer keeps echo drops on them. There's no tactics about it; pull to the safe spot. I'm not sure why this is more engaging.

They did add a little to Hell's Lid in that some of the mobs do a decent tank buster, and all that did was make it so people slow down on the last pull. But the jobs really aren't flexible enough to respond to things; you find the one strat that works and stick to it.

I dunno, maybe give people 9 buttons and make the markers highly visible or something? Let's see how flexible and engaging it is then.

Or not. Dungeons are fine as they are, or something.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I dunno, maybe give people 9 buttons and make the markers highly visible or something? Let's see how flexible and engaging it is then.

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Don't forget to make mobs heal themselves so fast that you need to coordinate a maximum burst combo with the other party members to kill any of them.

If nothing else, it might teach people how to do a proper opener <.<'

Whoa whoa, I know these are unpopular opinions, but you're asking for effort. Coordinated effort! Let's not get crazy, man. . .

Yes, we really needed three separate jumps plus one backjump on DRG, plus a single buff dedicated to jumps alone along with the four + other buffs and miscellaneous pvp abilities. I'm sure you loved trying to get geirksogul to work in 3.0 pvp. Much flexibility, meaningful options. I too enjoyed spending feast hoping to god my OGCDs would get back up in for the brief instances I could actually heal through PLD cc, while getting berated for not healing anybody. And come on, you were MCH; the only reason you weren;t a total joke in 3.0 was because between the eyes was so overpowered. I could esuna your wildfire ffs.

Like there was any flexibility in getting stunned + melee limit break. Only reason PvP even got done the amount it did was because we needed tomes nonstop for the relic, and then garo. if it were 3.0 now no one would bother.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And come on, you were MCH; the only reason you weren;t a total joke in 3.0 was because between the eyes was so overpowered. I could esuna your wildfire ffs.

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Didn't need Wildfire to burst. If fact, it wasn't even factored into said burst. Nice as a little insurance if you wanted to use it, but entirely unnecessary (unlike now). Made for a great feint when you threw it on one guy then burst the other though.

Purify Wildfire, not Esuna.

We also had every cc except sleep and pacification. <3

P.S. it's the supposedly "better" 4.0 PvP now, it's notably worse in many ways (though there is some good), and people still don't want to bother. Especially the ones who actively did it for more than tomes and Garo long before that. Or did all those guides and videos create themselves?

Anyways, let's not do this here in this thread. Not tonight, honey. I have a headache.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Whoa whoa, I know these are unpopular opinions, but you're asking for effort. Coordinated effort! Let's not get crazy, man. . .

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Truth be told: I would really like to see them try it. Like, just once, as an experiment. See how people react to it in a PvE context, see how popular it becomes. I could imagine it being dropped like a hot popoto, but without data, that's just an opinion/assumption.

"Something-something go back to Savage. Something something [use of the term elitist]."

Begone with you and your progressive-thinking witchcraft! *throws salt*

Yeah, I'm sure you also loved your burst randomly getting half its damage because you were in melee range, and 3.0 had ranged job damage fall off. Or starting out and having reduced potency and longer cooldown until you ranked up to get your kit not sucking. I don't miss that time at all; so many useless abilities, and pvp didn't really vary any in tactics from now.

Back to unpopular opinons.

Often closed the gap, even as a ranged, and not just for the damage.
Forgot to reset PvP points after switching to healer a few times; still blew people up with no problem.
Switched GCs and had to grind back up, again not having full PvP points; still blew people up with no problem.
*laughs in lack of turrets and oGCDs, half of which made up MCH burst*

No wait, that last one isn't funny.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

"Something-something go back to Savage. Something something [use of the term elitist]."

Begone with you and your progressive-thinking witchcraft! *throws salt*

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*Comfort* <3 :)

Extremely unpopular opinion, read at your own risk:

I hate this obsession with Glamour.

There, I said it.

I hate the fact that SE spends a lot of resources on Glamour, I hate the fact that most questions asked during Live Letters or during FanFests are about glamour.

I hate that this game is becoming a Final Fantasy version of a dress up game, just because some people need an audience to tell them their Glamour is awesome.

Now a little glamour is fine, especially if you don't like the look of your current set or something, but it seems that more and more people play this game just for the Glamour, and I don't like where it's generally going.

Because I'll give you another unpopular opinion (more of an observation really): people obsessed with glamour are usually bad players.



Man... that felt good.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

*Comfort* <3 :)

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In all seriousness, thanks. I needed that today.

Unpopular? Ok!

I love housing.

PvP was better before they dumbed it down. I had a ball getting my Garo mounts and gear. Now I won't go near it.

Gender locks aren't going anywhere because fantasias are a thing.

And lastly....
If SE really wanted a male bunny suit, it would already be in the game.

*hides*

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Often closed the gap, even as a ranged, and not just for the damage..

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people must suck on aether then, because any decent healer could handle a MCH in 3.0. Come to primal some time, we'll show you how to play.

Any decent healer could handle them on Aether as well. Still blew up plenty a healer back then and enjoyed it (in that way).

Also, already on Primal, Lamia actually, and still not terribly impressed! \o/

I like how the thread turned from posting "unpopular" opinions into just bashing people who hold different opinions.

But on topic: my "unpopular" opinion? People need to stop shoving meta down the general player population's throats. Unless you are literally doing world prog/world first/speed kills, meta will never matter and usually the people harping on having "correct" parties are the worst in the parties they form

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Any decent healer could handle them on Aether as well. Still blew up plenty a healer back then and enjoyed it (in that way).

Also, already on Primal, Lamia actually, and still not terribly impressed! \o/

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Then you can say hi and we can go to the duel center sometimes, cause that's my home server. I don't see people there much, so I'm guessing you aren't here often.

edit..i got distracted from my opinion, again.

..honestly, I feel they should consider sunsetting this game early and making a new one. Just take the lessons they've learned, and design a new game appropriate for their level of staff and content creation. don't think I'd blame them if they did.

I've popped in here and there but not as much since 4.2. Up for a duel whenever though.

I hate the Manderville quest line and everything involved with it. I didn't find a single solitary bit of that chain to be funny, charming, clever, or endearing. The only reason I suffered through it was to unlock the scholasticate chain so I could get my /spectacles emote.

I'm on less too, but if you pop on, search for me. I tend to be quieter in game than here, though. I see winter occasionally, but hvent had him on a team.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

people must suck on aether then, because any decent healer could handle a MCH in 3.0. Come to primal some time, we'll show you how to play.

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I'm gonna plug this in here from an old thread:

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Originally Posted by Korihu

My friend, surely as a fellow healer you should also know that of course if you duel 1v1 someone they can never kill you because you'll have full attention on them and no teammates to worry about. Calling for a 1v1 to test healing prowess just seems silly and even a little conceited.

It just sounds like you've never fought against some of the high level MCH. And let me tell you MCH CC make me want to blow myself up because if they're not doing as much damage they sure as heck are going to make it hard for you to heal from their other teammates' damage. I used to have a similar mindset to you until I fought against a couple of really good MCH players. Or maybe I'm just a baddy healer who knows.

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Dark Knight is FINE.

When people rant about DRK, they go on about "being behind DPS, mitigation, and utility." Remember WAR pre-SiO buff? People were not complaining about WAR's lack of utility. It was desirable because it had damage and a great solid mitigation kit. That established, "utility" isn't a deal breaker. By comparison, the only real thing about DRK that is behind is its damage, but it's not by a significant amount. This is no way mirrors Gordian PLD. Remember that? Remember how they were incapable of completing A4S without being 10 ilvls ahead of the other tanks? Not the case at all with current DRK!

You look right now at data from o6s, the most uptime friendly fight, and you'll see DRK only lags behind WAR by less than 8% in dps. From that fight onward, the gap only shrinks.

Anyways, TBN is great and can mix and match with all CDs to get all the mitigation you need. Considering in dps stance, you could very well argue DRK's mitigation surpasses WAR's.

I think housing is fine.

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Originally Posted by Ryxxis

I hate the Manderville quest line and everything involved with it. I didn't find a single solitary bit of that chain to be funny, charming, clever, or endearing. The only reason I suffered through it was to unlock the scholasticate chain so I could get my /spectacles emote.

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I don't really see this as an "unpopular" opinion tbh. I mean, I disagree with you, as I did enjoy it, but many people don't like the kind of humor used in the Manderville quest line.

SE should have forced players who owned multiple homes to choose which two they wanted to keep (Personal and FC) and opened the rest up. SE should also start putting there foot down on players that abuse the current system to set themselves up with multiple FC houses. The housing situation is far from okay because exactly what SE wanted to prevent is just happening anyways because you only need 4 people in an FC to buy a house, and with houses lingering for so long on FC only purchase, who wouldn't be tempted to just start buying them out to make the most of the new subs?

SE needs to stop playing around and take a hard stance on housing and enforce it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Actually, they stated a while back Au Ra aesthetic were changed due to how JP players overwhelmingly dislike bestial race options. I believe complications with armour also led to the change.

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Which is sad since recent data showed that we have more NA players than JP players and together with EU, the western part makes up the majority of the playerbase. And its not like they already dont have their cute option. I honestly hope that the next race will be something less cute otherwise I just see their introduction as useless..then use your time and budget to increase the options of the existing races. (Not sure if that is an unpopular opinion or not)

*Holds shields up* New unpopular opinion: I hate it when people use threads for their own personal conversation. Its fine if its one post or if you at least have a bit of the thread topic in it but posts full of no usefull information for the thread itself annoys me a great deal because I like reading about opinions on a topic but not about something soo off topic. When you have a thread with one page of good talk and then 3 pages of off topic it kinda wasted my time.

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Originally Posted by WilhelmWhite

I don't really see this as an "unpopular" opinion tbh. I mean, I disagree with you, as I did enjoy it, but many people don't like the kind of humor used in the Manderville quest line.

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I'd say that it is an "unpopular" opinion in that most people like the Manderville quests - but hardly a unique opinion since a number of people dislike it.
I do think most people think that the 3.x Manderville questline was far less funny than the 2.x one. Better story in some ways, but less funny.