Is our sub fee not enought

I don't have any problems with the cash shop itself, it the prices I have problem with. If SE cut the prices in half I would buy stuff from the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Kaiden019

Gotta love the fear mongering in these threads. "Soon it will be armor and dungeons!" No it won't. Everything on the cash shop has been for aesthetic purposes and always will be.

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There has been very little fear mongering in this thread. I suppose if you'd rather focus on a few comments instead of every other valid point, that's up to you.

But in regards to the cash shop being aesthetic always and forever, Yoshi has stated that they will most likely be introducing 'jump potions' into the mix sometime after Stormblood.

The cash shop is transforming all the time. It started out pretty small, but now we see more and more exclusive items being placed in there, with prices that continually climb. And it will (most likely) soon start carrying non-aesthetic items as well. Where exactly will it stop? Is that more fear mongering?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

There has been very little fear mongering in this thread. I suppose if you'd rather focus on a few comments instead of every other valid point, that's up to you.

But in regards to the cash shop being aesthetic always and forever, Yoshi has stated that they will most likely be introducing 'jump potions' into the mix sometime after Stormblood.

The cash shop is transforming all the time. It started out pretty small, but now we see more and more exclusive items being placed in there, with prices that continually climb. And it will (most likely) soon start carrying non-aesthetic items as well. Where exactly will it stop? Is that more fear mongering?

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Maybe so, but they offered a legitimate reason why they were offering said potions.It's an extremely daunting task for a new level 1 Marauder to get far enough in the story to be able to take part with their friends.

To give an example, I played WoW for a period with Wrath of the Lich King just came out with some friends at work. They had been playing for months/years prior so they were already up to par with everything. I, on the other hand, had to grind myself up to catch up. This was before they had jump potions even available. So, due to my play type, I played, largely by myself, for 2 months before I could play with them.

SQE is trying to avoid that feeling with new arrivals. New players keep the game alive just as much as veterans do, especially if said veterans take breaks from time to time when the content lull comes into effect.

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Originally Posted by Failia

Maybe so, but they offered a legitimate reason why they were offering said potions.

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Their "legitimate reason" is rubbish. Plenty of superior options that don't involve the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Failia

SQE is trying to avoid that feeling with new arrivals.

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...provided they pay for it.

Else they can go and take a hike.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

There has been very little fear mongering in this thread. I suppose if you'd rather focus on a few comments instead of every other valid point, that's up to you.

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I don't know what thread you're reading, but nearly every person complaining about the cash shop is using fearmongering hyperbole as part of their argument.

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But in regards to the cash shop being aesthetic always and forever, Yoshi has stated that they will most likely be introducing 'jump potions' into the mix sometime after Stormblood.

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And? Nearly all major MMOs include a way to instant level after a few expansions. That's not a sign of "cash shop going bad".

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I don't know what thread you're reading, but nearly every person complaining about the cash shop is using fearmongering hyperbole as part of their argument.

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Nearly every person you say?! Talk about hyperbole.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

And? Nearly all major MMOs include a way to instant level after a few expansions. That's not a sign of "cash shop going bad".

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Nearly all major MMOs do not include a subscription based model. The issue is that SE keeps pushing the limits of what the players will accept. People have defended the cash shop repeatedly as it's only cosmetic/fluff, no harm there, right? Now we're most likely going to get jump potions, and the line of "aesthetic items only" will have been crossed. Brave new waters! It will be interesting to see how the shop is handled moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Now we're most likely going to get jump potions, and the line of "aesthetic items only" will have been crossed.

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Implying it hasn't been crossed with paid retainers long ago. That's extra storage + sale slots + item procurement right there.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Implying it hasn't been crossed with paid retainers long ago. That's extra storage + sale slots + item procurement right there.

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True! I forgot about those things :X

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Their "legitimate reason" is rubbish. Plenty of superior options that don't involve the cash shop.

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Please let me know what these superior options are, I'm interested to know.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

...provided they pay for it.

Else they can go and take a hike.

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And the option is there if they wish to pay for it. And there will be people that pay for it, not just new arrivals but veterans as well.

Besides, first and foremost SQE is a business and a businesses sole goal is to make money. It's not to cater to every whim of ever player. That's impossible.

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Originally Posted by Failia

Besides, first and foremost SQE is a business and a businesses sole goal is to make money.

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Indeed - And for a business, it would be stupid not to work on creating a problem if they can sell the solution to it.

Like selling mines, minesweeping services and prostheses. Works great!

I'm not a huge fan of cash shops in general, but I don't think it's fair to say that releases and subs give us so much more than they used to. If I think about the amount of content that was released in the EQ : Shadows of Luclin expansion (Or Kunark/Velious/Planes of Power).. the sheer number of quests/zones/raids./abilities.. new classes.... alternate advancement,etc... this expansion/sub content isn't even in the same realm.


With that said, production quality (voice overs etc.) are nicer. It is a story on rails, not a sandbox environment- so it is a different type of experience. However, I would say that for the volume of content and the length of play-ability and relevance of content- not even close to older games. I won't even get into the sheer volume of items/gear and recipes. I will say that for EQ expansions, every expansion I bought a thick book that had information on the expansion and it was always a LOT... and you paid for content that would be fun and last a long time, not become obsolete within a year. Just my opinion. Oh, and there were in game GMs that would help you.... that is a really great service that subscriptions paid for that I don't really see here.

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Originally Posted by Failia

Please let me know what these superior options are, I'm interested to know.

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Well, a few I saw or contributed in the potion thread.

Give the story skip potion with the expansion
Give both potions with the expansion
Boost XP gain from the story and introduce an option to teleport straight back to the quest giver upon completion
Allow new characters/players to choose whether to start at 2.0, 3.0 or 4.0
Unlock the first HW quest at 50 and the first SB one at 60 so players leveled past that can choose to skip any remaining story-line from the previous segment
More radically, they could streamline the MSQ and try to rework the quest system so all 3 main story-lines can run in parallel
Various combinations of the above

(also, SE please add a sidequest where the scions sneak a housing district style mini-aetheryte into the waking sands.)

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Originally Posted by Failia

Besides, first and foremost SQE is a business and a businesses sole goal is to make money. It's not to cater to every whim of ever player. That's impossible.

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'SE is a business and their sole goal is to make money' seems to me to be the sort of statement that should realistically increase skepticism towards the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

While I understand you want to just pay everything up front; not everyone cares about the extra items in the shop, so it would potentially cause a drop in subs if people saw their subscription fee go up for the sake of items they weren't even interested in to begin with.

Maybe they could introduce a premium subscription option for those who are interested in getting those additional items tied in without feeling nickel and dimed.

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Accepting for the moment that the MogStation aka Cash Shop is a real and permanent thing (which let's face it, it is)... I would not mind a season pass deal for all MogStation content in a calendar year that we can pay up front - so long as it was available across all characters on my account. If they went with a two tier version of a pass for the account or a pass for a character, I would be OK with that too. Of course this all depends on the cost. There's no freaking way I am paying more than the digital CE cost ($59.99) for a year's worth of DLC, account wide or otherwise), and there would need to be a way to catch up on prior year content if you join later.

However, the main thing for me is that the actual costs of items is too high. It's completely outrageous given the single character limitation. I would still consider some of the content expensive even if it were across my entire account, but the value would be there to justify the cost. Right now, the value is so limited in scope it's really hard to justify spending so much on something as small as an emote or outfit. So a two tier pricing structure of Account wide vs Single character would be far superior to the current system - IMHO.

However a Season Pass for non-consumable items from the MogSation such as mounts, minions, emotes and outfits/accessories, which was account wide would be an option I would be very keen to explore. It does very much depend on the cost however. I don't honestly think that SE could charge more than the cost of the game (new) for a year of items on MogStation, perhaps the Digital CE price at most given we have seen some fairly premium outfits appearing on Mogstation. A Season pass for DLC should never cost more than the game itself - unless of course you're adopting a F2P model - which Yoshi has repeatedly indicated he will not do.

Two tier pricing (of all non consumable items) for account wide vs single character - yes please.
Season pass for a year at the MogStation (for all non-consumable Mogstation exclusive items) with two pricing tiers - yes please.
Catch up 'pass' to catch up prior years items at MogStation (for all non_consumable Mogstation exclusive items), again two tiers - yes please.

If that was something SE would explore, then I would suggest one more option;

Owner's Pass - a one time fee, granting the account access to all MogStation items (not optional services) as long as the player's subscription is active. This one would probably be an expensive option, but honestly I could easily see some players taking it in order to do away with the drip feed of transactions that annoy them. I would certainly consider it as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Because you didn't reply with anything relevant to the conversation.

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Which conversation? I had a reply to a point you had posted, so I made it. Whether you believe it to be relevant isn't really an issue, I thought it was.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I agreed with you that the price is too high on the emotes (twice).

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Great, we agree on something.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I was explaining how there's nothing wrong with or "pay to win" about selling cosmetics in the cash shop and having a subscription, and that we are not entitled to every asset created for the game just because we pay a sub.

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And I was countering that point. When ARR was delivered there was no cash shop we were literally entitled to everything because we pay our subscription fee. We started out with an all inclusive game/resort. Now a degree of premium content has been re-directed to the MogStation for additional charge. People can argue about whether or not the content would exist without the MogStation, to be honest I don't know whether any of us can ever know that answer. I'm not saying anything about it being pay to win (because it's not pay to win), I am simply saying that when I and many others began our customer relationship with SE, the game was an all-inclusive deal. Somewhere along the line things changed, but SE said it was nothing to worry about.

But, now we see expensive outfits, mounts and emotes on the MogStation, not just Fantasia, renaming service, world transfer or extra retainers. Worse than that, things that IMHO should be account wide, aare single character only - despite their price. That Chinese dress - for example - costs more than 2 months full subscription and yet is only available to a single character on your account. My goodness you could repurchase ARR and HW on PC at times for less than that outfit costs for a single character on Mogstation.

Some people have mentioned that WoW has a cash shop. I asked a guy at work that plays WoW and he said to me hes happy to buy stuff off the cash shop. He said ha has only paid for one month of game time over the last couple of years. They have a system you can pay for months with gold for a sub token. He was complaining that they were almost 90k in gold now that other blizzard games use the token.

So cash shop but super free monthly sub. I like the sound of that. I would settle for the idea of tokens for gil and just being cash shop items.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

Some people have mentioned that WoW has a cash shop. I asked a guy at work that plays WoW and he said to me hes happy to buy stuff off the cash shop. He said ha has only paid for one month of game time over the last couple of years. They have a system you can pay for months with gold for a sub token. He was complaining that they were almost 90k in gold now that other blizzard games use the token.

So cash shop but super free monthly sub. I like the sound of that. I would settle for the idea of tokens for gil and just being cash shop items.

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That will never happen and it shouldn't ever happen.
What works for one game wouldn't necessarily work for the other, WoW can afford to do that because in that game gold is laughably easy to obtain and amass a fortune of, FFXIV on the other hand... you can only really get a lot of gil from actively crafting or gathering and gil is just much harder overall to obtain compared to WoW's gold.A FFXIV token would ruin the economy much more then it is now and I imagine gil spammers will be a lot more attractive to some people.

I have zero issue with the mog station. The developers put in a lot of time to make extra things, and it helps keep the game going and pay developer wages, development costs, server infrastructure,etc. Profit for the company also helps drive new and better games. So really, I'm okay with it.

The only thing I am not okay with, is region-locked items such as the chinese/korean exclusive items not being available through some means. Be that cash shop or content in game. I realize these items may have been created by another company, but they should still try to provide us access to them in some way. Either way, I'm not that salty over it, its not something I'd lose sleep over.

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Originally Posted by Grawbad

Their assumption of paying for everything comes directly from the fact that P2P games were always that way.

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Considering WoW has a cashshop since around the same time as ARR was released, and FFXI made you pay for any additional character back in 2002, maybe it's time to stop grieving.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering WoW has a cashshop since around the same time as ARR was released, and FFXI made you pay for any additional character back in 2002, maybe it's time to stop grieving.

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WoW has been around since 2004 and only added a cash shop near the end of 2013. XI allowed you access to all content/items/etc* on your character. Making you pay for additional character slots would be on par with standard account services, e.g world transfer, name changes, etc. It is nice we get those included automatically these days.


*Once again, excluding fan fest, CE/promotional items, expansion packs, etc.

With the way XI worked I don't think many had multiple characters for playing and was mainly just for extra storage which not possible in XIV unless want to jump though hoops to do it.

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Originally Posted by Failia

Maybe so, but they offered a legitimate reason why they were offering said potions.

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And there was a perfectly legitimate alternative solution for them: unlinking the MSQ from progression to the next expansion. They went the cash-grabby route instead.

There is a precedent they are setting here: problems will be solved with cash shop items; increasingly more cosmetics will go straight to the shop instead of being added to the game. It started with simply old holiday items, and then expanded to a few novelty cosmetics, then RENTING storage space (honestly more low-brow than even the crappiest f2p mmo), then the NPC outfits and hairstyles, now unique emotes with no connection to holiday events that SHOULD have been in the game from the start (/playdead, for example)... It's only going to expand from there. That isn't doomsaying, that is literally watching the same thing happen over and over again from MMO to MMO and calling it like it is. And it is crap.

If it were not for Mogstation, there would hae been no funding for FFXV, FFVII Remake, of KH3.

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Originally Posted by Khanscott

If it were not for Mogstation, there would hae been no funding for FFXV, FFVII Remake, of KH3.

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Where did you glean this information from?

I'm not against a cash shop, but it's always been a bit of a delicate balance. Right now, and for a while, that balance has felt a bit off. I mean, we have to pay, on top of a subscription, for a "play dead" emote and Dark Red/Blue dye.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

And there was a perfectly legitimate alternative solution for them: unlinking the MSQ from progression to the next expansion. They went the cash-grabby route instead.

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rewriting the whole MSQ is not really a alternative solution.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

I mean, we have to pay, on top of a subscription, for a "play dead" emote and Dark Red/Blue dye.

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Then get General-purpose Dark Blue Dye or General-purpose Dark Red Dye from Quick Exploration Venture and Market Board instead of the cash shop dyes. It only need luck or gil.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Quick_Exploration

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Originally Posted by Felis

rewriting the whole MSQ is not really a alternative solution.

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It's not rewriting the MSQ. It's literally just dividing it into discreet chunks that you can start when you want - a la GW2. -_-

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's not rewriting the MSQ. It's literally just dividing it into discreet chunks that you can start when you want - a la GW2. -_-

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Will still need a rewrite. 2.0-4.0 is a whole story, not a collection of short stories with not much connection between them.
Or we will get a chronology fragmented story like in FF XIII-2, where you start with fighting for Ala Migho, and then enter your first time Eorzea, following with a raid to the garlean capitol, and at the end to fight against Nidhogg.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's not rewriting the MSQ. It's literally just dividing it into discreet chunks that you can start when you want - a la GW2. -_-

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I believe Yoshida already said no to that because it would require an entire rework of the quest system anyways, but it wasn't exactly to that but it was to a question about redoing quests.

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

Because these quests are all triggered with flags, to make this possible, we might have to recreate the entire quest system itself from the ground up. Now that I think about it, though… each of these battles are created as individual content. If we could create a list of ones that have been completed and use that list to re-create the situation, it might not be impossible… The idea and implementation? Not impossible. It would take a lot of debugging, though, so if you cannot wait… Make a new character.

Source:http://gamerescape.com/2017/02/19/le...017-frankfurt/

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I havent looked nor made a post in this forum for a very long time. I just have to ask... Why is this a real issue with nearly 40 pages?

It's not an issue. People don't understand how an optional item shop works. The items put on the shop are not ones that they made and were like "screw the players, put it on the item shop." These items wouldn't be put in the game if the item shop didn't exist. The items themselves would not exist.

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Originally Posted by Khanscott

If it were not for Mogstation, there would hae been no funding for FFXV, FFVII Remake, of KH3.

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Oh please don't go there, those game would/still be worked on and released. No one at SE sitting around going well if no one buys from the XIV cash shop we can't do these others games.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Nearly every person you say?! Talk about hyperbole.

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Oh, so you like to argue dishonestly, I see.

I said nearly every person complaining about the cash shop has utilized fearmongering hyperbole in their responses at least once in this thread... which is a fact, not hyperbole.

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Nearly all major MMOs do not include a subscription based model.

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Completely irrelevant to whether or not they offer a level skip option. And besides, the main major competitor to FFXIV that also has a subscription offers it (WoW).

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Originally Posted by Felis

Then get General-purpose Dark Blue Dye or General-purpose Dark Red Dye from Quick Exploration Venture and Market Board instead of the cash shop dyes. It only need luck or gil.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Quick_Exploration

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Them putting it behind something with really terrible RNG, does not excuse the fact that at 8.99-14.99 per month, folks have to pay for something as basic as "Dark Red Dye" or a "play dead" emote. I'm not against the cash shop, hell I've even bought stuff from it (and will do so again in the future), but I'm not going to act like the way SE has approached the situation is perfect.

i wonder how long it will be before thay put a gachapon or a form of 'cubing' in the game :/

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Originally Posted by dalta

i wonder how long it will be before thay put a gachapon or a form of 'cubing' in the game :/

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SHHHH! Don't give them ideas!!!

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Originally Posted by Roda

SHHHH! Don't give them ideas!!!

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dont be silly. thay probebly already got a gachapon ready for storm blood >_>

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's not rewriting the MSQ. It's literally just dividing it into discreet chunks that you can start when you want - a la GW2. -_-

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GW2 runs on a different engine and GW2 offers a free jump to lvl 80 if you own HoT. FF14 is actually one of the few MMOs which don't offer such a service in the west at this point.

We don't know if FF14's engine is really flexible enough to separate the MSQ and maintain its quest flagging and phasing. Do remember things change an unlock as you progress. Let's just say that in SB we get sent to the Rising Stones. Would that mean starting there would unlock it? What would that mean for the flagging process during the 2.X MSQ that leads to it unlocking?

I don't think its a simple as 'just dividing it into discreet chunks'.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Oh, so you like to argue dishonestly, I see.

I said nearly every person complaining about the cash shop has utilized fearmongering hyperbole in their responses at least once in this thread... which is a fact, not hyperbole.

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You either don't understand the meaning of hyperbole or fear mongering. Most responses in this thread have been just fine. Also, you changed the wording in your comment above. Minor, but it still lessens the effect.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Completely irrelevant to whether or not they offer a level skip option. And besides, the main major competitor to FFXIV that also has a subscription offers it (WoW).

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And it is completely relevant. F2P/B2P and P2P games have completely different business models. If XIV is wanting to give the option for new players to skip MSQ, why not build that into the game? Instead, they're content to add it to the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Most responses in this thread have been just fine. Also, you changed the wording in your comment above. Minor, but it still lessens the effect.

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1) Again, I didn't say "nearly all the responses in this thread". I said nearly all the people complaining about the cash shop have used fearmongering hyperbole, which is a fact. There are several examples on the last 3 pages alone.

2) I didn't change the wording of anything. Stop lying in order to attempt to score "interwebz points".

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And it is completely relevant. F2P/B2P and P2P games have completely different business models. If XIV is wanting to give the option for new players to skip MSQ, why not build that into the game? Instead, they're content to add it to the cash shop.

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No, it is not. Whether a game has a level skip option is not at all relevant to whether it has a subscription or not. Zero relevance.

And just to hammer that point home for you a second time, the main major competitor to FFXIV which has a subscription (WoW) has level skip options purchasable in their cash shop along with mounts and plenty of other cosmetics.

I will never put one cent in the cash shop besides my sub an expansions.
An the reason why they keep adding exclusive to cash shop is because people are buying...
To me..I don't know... I prefer to go out an eat that money or use it in something else.