Paladin: Possibilities

[Akujima]

Some will say that -PDT is the solution here but, they seem to not realize that the jobs that are causing PLD to lose it's place in the game, can also use these things. This is why there needs to be either A) a nerf to DDs being able to wear these -PDT pieces of equipment or B) the scale of STR/attack vs. VIT/defense to be rewritten.

...

People may be outraged by this: "I can't do ridiculous amounts of damage anymore!? /ragequit" > "They want the game to be balanced? Screw that, I want to be inherently better than other jobs!" > "They're nerfing our ability to survive while at the same time being able to deal tons of damage? That's stupid, I want to be able to do both at the same time regardless of job!". Is it really that big of a deal to level the playing field? They could very well level it without affecting damage output.

What I think happened, is that PLD was the only Job out there that could tank effectively in the past. The only other way to defeat certain bosses, was to "Zerg" them before the boss went ape-$hit and killed all the Melee. (IMO "Zerging should not be possible, due to it stripping dynamics completely out of the game, but that in itself is another topic altogether.)

While I agree that PLD should be a tank, I disagree that it should be the only one. That being said, I agree with your point that if a job outputs major damage, it should also have to sacrifice it's survivability.

The flop by the developers, was to add Equipment and Spells (allowing more jobs than one to access them) that allow certain Melee jobs to "Tank" effectively. What they should have done, was to decide which of the other jobs was going to be a "Tank" and give them the appropriate JA and JT in order to do so.

Arhat's Gi set, Jelly ring, ASA augmented legs and Twilight Torque, all opened up the possibility of Melee mitigating so much damage, it turned PLD into just a "precaution" type job. These -PDT gear sets along with shadows from Utsusemi, really tipped the scales too far for Melee's being able to "Tank".

While your other suggestions are great, I really feel that without doing these two major things, it will be very difficult to revive PLD as being seen as "useful" to the majority of the player base. These two things being:

1. Screw it and make PLD a DD. (something I don't want to see happen) or...
2. Nerf other jobs ability to "Tank" effectively, and decide which other 1~2 jobs can than be another "Tank" Class.

#2 would be met with heavy opposition. And I worry that due to this opposition, the developers will "turn a blind eye" to what could (IMO) bring more balance and dynamics to jobs as a whole.

[svengalis]

PLD and DRK still need serious help, I hope that Dev's look into this thoroughly.

What about RNGs?

[Byrth]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas. But there's a patch, so you get my input on your 5th Modifications:

Point 6:
First off, you don't have a specific suggestion or show any understanding of how cRatio and fSTR work. As far as I know from reading your post, you've just regurgitated something you heard in another thread. The equations aren't "broken," they're working exactly as intended. All the patches, Abyssea, etc. haven't really changed the monster -> player damage mechanics at all.
Secondly, they can't rework cRatio in the way you'd probably like, because any job could sub BLU and use Cocoon. You know what other job gets a lot of VIT gear? White Mage. Monk. etc.
Finally, reducing damage taken is the least of your worries on Paladin. Right now Paladin/Ninja is by far the best at reducing physical damage barring, perhaps, a Fan Dance using Dancer with capped Evasion. Any change to damage mechanics that you make is going to necessarily help other jobs more than Paladin and make the job less desirable.

Point 2a - You call it a stupid gimmick yourself, and you're right.

Point 2B - You want your paladins to sub White Mage, which isn't exactly a bad choice if you're forced to bring them to Abyssea. Again, not really a fix to the job. A "supporting role" Paladin might as well be on a mage job.


Paladin's biggest "problem," at least before the most recent patch, is that no monsters exist (excluding PW) that are hard enough to justify sacrificing a DD slot to bring a Paladin. If you want to blame something for this, blame fixed hate cures (WHM) and Abyssites of Merit.

All the other things, inability to generate CE, slower attack speed than other 1H DDs, crappy WS selection, etc. is secondary to this primary problem. You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

[Akujima]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas...

...You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

At least the guy is trying to be positive and come up with solutions to a job that is considered "invalid" by many.

Melee's crying about not being able to "Tank" tipped the game out of balance. Next thing you know, they'll complain about not being able to cure themselves enough, and ask that /DNC get a boost so they don't have to RELY on cures from anyone else.

Pretty soon we'll see everyone running around as SAM/DNC, MNK/DNC and NIN/DNC because Melee will be able to TANK, DO DAMAGE AND HEAL effectively. Is that what you want? To be a God?

And on your last note: Yes they should give us more difficult content.

[GlobalVariable]

You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

If we do that we'll get paladin requiredcontent. People want the jobs to be useful, but not an absolute requirement. The mentality has 180'd. I remember a time nobody would do anything without a pld tank. As much as I love my pld, I don't want a return to those days. We really did need that to change, we needed more tanks. I just want to be useful as a pld again.

[Greatguardian]

Can't say I was expecting much from your response Greatguardian. As all I ever see is you basically calling any form of idea that anyone else has "rubbish" (I have literally yet to see otherwise) without any backing or any form of alternative solutions (which is called constructive criticism). "May as well rewrite the game from scatch" isn't much of a counter-argument. Since you're not denying the fact that the system is broken and seem hell-bent on derailing any train of thought on fixing it, I see no reason to continue this irrelevant debate where all you do is try to insult other people, in a passive-aggressive manner.

The system is what the system is. FFXI is a game, it has rules, it has a system in place. When the ideal playstyle in that system does not coincide with the style you want to play, you can either adjust yourself to match the game, or you attempt to adjust the game to match you.

I don't call every idea rubbish. I call rubbish ideas rubbish. I'm not sitting here insulting anyone. If someone considers being told they're wrong insulting, that's their own problem.

I believe calling the system broken is a matter of perspective. Is it working the way Tanaka-san and the Development Team envisioned it should over a decade ago? Probably not. Is the current system defunct in such a way that it prevents players from playing the game? No. The game can be played perfectly fine. People have been playing it fine for years now, with the same system intact.

Do I think the system is broken? Naw. People can play in this system just fine. The only ones who can't are those who insist that they should be able to play optimally while playing the game "The way they want".

Do I think Paladin could use some adjustments? Definitely. But anything involving Defense is a lost cause. CDC and Ochain were monumental steps in the right direction. Sure, it's a localized boost since it requires two Empyreans, but it's an incredibly solid boost. Paladin needs to not be a waste of a party slot in order for it to be useful, as right now plenty of other jobs can serve as a better tank that deals more damage and takes less.

[Zyeriis]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas. But there's a patch, so you get my input on your 5th Modifications:

Point 6:
First off, you don't have a specific suggestion or show any understanding of how cRatio and fSTR work. As far as I know from reading your post, you've just regurgitated something you heard in another thread. The equations aren't "broken," they're working exactly as intended. All the patches, Abyssea, etc. haven't really changed the monster -> player damage mechanics at all.
Secondly, they can't rework cRatio in the way you'd probably like, because any job could sub BLU and use Cocoon. You know what other job gets a lot of VIT gear? White Mage. Monk. etc.
Finally, reducing damage taken is the least of your worries on Paladin. Right now Paladin/Ninja is by far the best at reducing physical damage barring, perhaps, a Fan Dance using Dancer with capped Evasion. Any change to damage mechanics that you make is going to necessarily help other jobs more than Paladin and make the job less desirable.

Point 2a - You call it a stupid gimmick yourself, and you're right.

Point 2B - You want your paladins to sub White Mage, which isn't exactly a bad choice if you're forced to bring them to Abyssea. Again, not really a fix to the job. A "supporting role" Paladin might as well be on a mage job.


Paladin's biggest "problem," at least before the most recent patch, is that no monsters exist (excluding PW) that are hard enough to justify sacrificing a DD slot to bring a Paladin. If you want to blame something for this, blame fixed hate cures (WHM) and Abyssites of Merit.

All the other things, inability to generate CE, slower attack speed than other 1H DDs, crappy WS selection, etc. is secondary to this primary problem. You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

I think this post is a prime example of how no one agrees on what is wrong with paladin. "0% chance of being implemented" is an opinion, not a stating of fact. I think you misunderstand the purpose of this thread, and the way I try to make it differ from past threads. In that, I am merely listing possibilities and that I am fully aware that perhaps not all of said possibilities have a high probability but it's not 0% probability.

I've got a better question: How is increasing versatility detrimental to the job as it stands? I want something added, something that has potential to make Paladin more useful. Each post is made with the mindset of edging Paladin toward being "fixed" not singular ideas to instantly "fix" paladin. One giant update to paladin (or any job for that matter) is more prone to making that job over powered and thus requiring further adjustments to other jobs. I wish for an end to this cycle, I want equality. Is there really a reason to be against this?

As for not having a specific suggestion on 6A, you're right, I did that on purpose though. The suggestion is to rework the system, I merely gave no specifics as to how it should be scaled. Was it wrong of me to not do so? I don't really think it was, as it gives other people something to talk about and work out.

As for the fact that other jobs also have the VIT/defense gear and /blu that paladin also has access to. This is true (said it was a fact). However, the /blu argument is poor because then /blu would be the only viable sub, which I doubt people would take to. As for the VIT/defense gear, this is another reason why I did not give specifics to my "rework Vit/defense vs. Str/attack" portion of modifications #5. I understood the complexity of the situation, which returns me to my first point of this thread: everyone has different opinions on the matter.

People will argue that DDs are just as good at damage mitigation, then some one else will argue they're not as good. These things play more into personal experience rather than fact. It's the same as me saying that Monk sucks (in general) because of all the bad experiences I've had in the past with them. Was Monk as a job at fault? No, it was the player. I don't deny that Paladin is the best at reducing physical damage (I'd likely agree with you) but that doesn't change the view of other player's who have had bad experiences due to bad players. Adding and adjusting things does that.

[Leonatos]

Now that DD's can safely deal damage with capped enmity and survive enimty is definintely a problem. Pld's are just too slow and you sacrifice to much damage by bringing them when you do not have too. That said here is my Enmity fix.


Proposed Enmity fix #1: New Job Ability
The Knight's Wail
Instant Stun effect reseting hate for all other party/allaince members within A0E say 10' (excluding the PLD's hate)
Recast timer 2:00

You could even make it tiered to improve as you lvl. Say for instance lvl 1 pld would Call of the Squire which have like 10 minute recast timer and minor enmity reduction instead of cancellation of a single target and no stun effect. then have it evolve alittle every 10 to 15 lvl's or so.

[Greatguardian]

Now that DD's can safely deal damage with capped enmity and survive is definintely a problem

They've been able to do that for ... years.

[Leonatos]

They've been able to do that for ... years.

Thank you for being so constructive instead of just trolling on a word play.