Paladin: Possibilities

[GlobalVariable]

You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

If we do that we'll get paladin requiredcontent. People want the jobs to be useful, but not an absolute requirement. The mentality has 180'd. I remember a time nobody would do anything without a pld tank. As much as I love my pld, I don't want a return to those days. We really did need that to change, we needed more tanks. I just want to be useful as a pld again.

[Akujima]

It's quite obvious that GG has no intent on contributing anything positive in terms of how to improve PLD's worthiness amongst the player base. Simply because his popularity depends on how skilled his attempts are at bashing peoples ideas, as opposed to improving ideas that have potential.

@GG
Crunching down on people, because their ideas aren't "good enough" in your eyes, serves no purpose in re-establishing a symbiotic relationship between Jobs. We're in this thread to figure out how to improve PLD, not to continually bicker amongst one another about how PLD "sucks" in the first place.


Symbiotic relationships in an RPG, consist of Classes (or in this case Jobs) that have a NEED for one another.

"Healers" need "Tanks" and "Support"
"Melee" need "Healers" and "Tanks"
"Tanks" need "Healers" and "Melee"
"Support" need the other 3

If you don't agree with this system, that's great for you. But RPG's have consisted of this type of symbiosis since the dawn of the first RPG: Dungeons and Dragons. A Warrior with a Great-Axe going into battle without any form of healing or someone with heavy armor and a shield to aid them, is going to have their @$$ handed to them. Granted they might kill a few enemies in the process, but if the idea is to "Zerg" and not give a crap about your Hit Points and Death Penalties, then I fail to see a point in this even being a game at all.

Melee that do incredible damage in a role-playing point of view, leave themselves open for attack. It makes no sense why those same Melee should also have access to amazing defensive capabilities. You can argue this point all you want, but it's still not going to change how RPG's are AND should be played at the core.

[Greatguardian]

snip

If an idea here had potential I'd run with it. All I see in your post is:

"I want to play Dungeons and Dragons Online. I do not care that this is Final Fantasy XI, and is its own Entity with its own rules and mechanics. If Class A and Class B do not do what they do in other games, then the rules and mechanics are obviously flawed."

If you want to play a game that is not Final Fantasy XI, play a game that is not Final Fantasy XI. Meanwhile, those of us who can cope with the fact that there are certain fundamental things about the game that will always remain the same will be brainstorming ideas for the advancement of the Paladin job that are feasible to implement and actually address the problems Paladin has.

And for what it's worth, Byrth's post was directed at Zy, not me.

@Zy: I never said Paladin has never been the best at anything. I said, for the past few years, other jobs have been able to tank better than Paladin on pretty much every NM in the game. From a purely defensive standpoint? RDM does it way better, Dark Knight does it just as well, Monk does it better, Samurai can do it just as well, and Ninja can do it just as well depending on the NM. From an Enmity standpoint? Pretty much every DD in the game does it as well or better. From a Damage standpoint? Again, most jobs do it better.

This has nothing to do with personal experience. This has nothing to do with some Paladins sucking or some DDs being amazing. I've had the privilege of playing with some absolutely amazing Paladins, and I'm not a huge slouch myself. Other jobs can simply mitigate damage more consistently while dealing more damage and, thus, maintaining equal/greater enmity values and ending fights sooner.

Edit2: As for Paladin being the best damage mitigation right now, blame that on Ochain. It's an incredibly powerful shield, and I've mentioned another half dozen times in this thread alone that I'm leaving it out of the picture for now.

[Akujima]

If an idea here had potential I'd run with it. All I see in your post is:

"I want to play Dungeons and Dragons Online. I do not care that this is Final Fantasy XI, and is its own Entity with its own rules and mechanics. If Class A and Class B do not do what they do in other games, then the rules and mechanics are obviously flawed."

If you want to play a game that is not Final Fantasy XI, play a game that is not Final Fantasy XI.

I said nothing of wanting to play D&D online, but it still doesn't change the fact that FFXI is an MMORPG. And MMORPG's consist of certain gameplay mechanics that define them as such. The same goes for any other type of game, so let me give you an example.

First person shooters: Looking through the eyeballs of someone holding a gun and running around in a 3D environment shooting "bad guys" coming from all directions.

Side-Scrollers: Looking at a character from the side, running through a 2D map, avoiding obstacles/defeating enemies to eventually reach their goal.

Single Player Role-Playing Games: Following the main protagonist on his adventure, defeating enemies, leveling up and gaining equipment, in order to progress through more difficult areas.

MMORPG's: Following a group of protagonists on their adventure, each having abilities that compliment one another (In order for them to stay as a group!), using their abilities together as a team to defeat difficult enemies (not being able to defeat difficult enemies or Level Bosses solo, forces them to stay as a group!), leveling up together and gaining new equipment and abilities in order to progress through more difficult areas.

Meanwhile, those of us who can cope with the fact that there are certain fundamental things about the game that will always remain the same

Well, I don't think you can cope with the fact that this is FUNDAMENTALLY an MMORPG and MMORPG's will always remain the same. Let alone most of the jobs do or feel nothing like what they did in another Final Fantasy's.

[Greatguardian]

Last I checked, you determined a game's genre based on what it is; you don't determine what it is based on the game's genre.

If it is so disturbing to call FFXI an MMORPG, call it something else. Or just call it FFXI. I thought you were the one telling me to think outside the box in your Shuriken thread. Now you want FFXI to conform to the box or else? Classy.

Finally, if I piss you off so much, you're welcome to vent about me on other sites where you're free to call me a doo doo head without fear of moderator reprisal. Link me for lulz please.

[Akujima]

Last I checked, you determined a game's genre based on what it is; you don't determine what it is based on the game's genre.

If it is so disturbing to call FFXI an MMORPG, call it something else. Or just call it FFXI. I thought you were the one telling me to think outside the box in your Shuriken thread. Now you want FFXI to conform to the box or else? Classy.

Finally, if I piss you off so much, you're welcome to vent about me on other sites where you're free to call me a doo doo head without fear of moderator reprisal. Link me for lulz please.

All or most of your posts just consist of a simple formula: You're wrong. This is how you are wrong. I'm right. This is how I'm right. Completely leaving out the point or subject matter the OP was trying to portray.

Games are never going to become real life, so there's a limit to how far it's possible to think outside of that. Games in themselves are "Boxes", but many who get too into the game mechanics, have made a "Box within a Box" and can't creatively think outside their own viewpoint, in order to improve those mechanics which have failed somehow.

So yea, whatever man. Still doesn't change the fact that most of your posts don't contribute anything. Just continuing to pick at peoples faults and point out their inconsistencies, doesn't make you a savior to the developers the way you think it does. And if your intention is to discourage creative thinkers, instigate people and instill hopelessness towards their ideas, then you've succeeded. Because I'm tired of this forum and all it's negativity, so I'll leave it up to you to run things the way you want. I'd rather be doing other things, than wasting my time in a heated battle with everyone trying to get their point across.

Adios.

[Kuishen]

All or most of your posts just consist of a simple formula: You're wrong. This is how you are wrong. I'm right. This is how I'm right. Completely leaving out the point or subject matter the OP was trying to portray.

Games are never going to become real life, so there's a limit to how far it's possible to think outside of that. Games in themselves are "Boxes", but many who get too into the game mechanics, have made a "Box within a Box" and can't creatively think outside their own viewpoint, in order to improve those mechanics which have failed somehow.

So yea, whatever man. Still doesn't change the fact that most of your posts don't contribute anything. Just continuing to pick at peoples faults and point out their inconsistencies, doesn't make you a savior to the developers the way you think it does. And if your intention is to discourage creative thinkers, instigate people and instill hopelessness towards their ideas, then you've succeeded. Because I'm tired of this forum and all it's negativity, so I'll leave it up to you to run things the way you want. I'd rather be doing other things, than wasting my time in a heated battle with everyone trying to get their point across.

Adios.

ahahahahahahahaha

Good god your reasoning is terrible and your ideas are terrible, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

[Zyeriis]

ahahahahahahahaha

Good god your reasoning is terrible and your ideas are terrible, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

I'm going to have to agree with you, that post is....an embarrassment. The first paragraph made me facepalm so hard I nearly died, Akujima.

[Akujima]

I'm going to have to agree with you, that post is....an embarrassment. The first paragraph made me facepalm so hard I nearly died, Akujima.

Whatever man. I was on your side, but now you can face-off against the rest of those who will dish out never-ending bitter arguments against you. It's clear to see that all this mathematical BS that's stuck between everyone's ears has blinded them from actually having fun with a video game.

I can give a rat's @$$ about mathematics, because stuff like that is just childs-play. What is actually going to make a video game GOOD is content that can appeal to everyone, and not just to sour-puss mathematicians whom fight amongst one another, about how much work it will take to rehash a system that has failed in the first place.

Economics involves more than just numbers, and if people aren't going to play the game because it doesn't feel like a typical MMORPG, nor does it resemble much of the other Final Fantasy series... SE will lose money. Simple as that.

And if that first paragraph doesn't make sense to you, just don't blame me for your inability to comprehend the concepts in which I'm trying to explain.

@GG

I can guarantee other forums would understand what I'm talking about, when I say "It makes sense for NINJA's to THROW".

[Akujima]

All or most of your posts just consist of a simple formula: You're wrong. This is how you are wrong. I'm right. This is how I'm right. Completely leaving out the point or subject matter the OP was trying to portray.

Nevermind actually. This is $%#@'ed up because I was drunk while writing this... But just goes to show you that posting on these forums is so depressing, it resulted in my having to drink just to bring my consciousness down to the same level...-_-...

So I take back some of what I said, but not the points about RPG's or whatever...