A Ninja without Throwing...

[wish12oz]

Ok, do that exact same equation, but now with Sange, and not just 1 regular throw with low level shuriken.

I already explained why sange doesn't work in another thread, but it's the same thing, you lose between 4 and 8 attack rounds using sange and recasting utsu ni.

4-8 rounds is 12->24 attacks worth of damage and tp gain. Sange doesn't come close to this, if you can prove it does, go for it. I just said how much it needs to do to keep up, if you can prove it can do this much, you can prove it can be useful.

I also didn't give exact damage numbers, I only gave delays, and # of attacks, and amount of TP.
If your throwing damage can exceed 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain, then throwing can be better. It just doesn't do that much, unless you're incredibly gimp, or have super duper amazing effing shurikens, like 500+ base damage.

[Akujima]

I already explained why sange doesn't work in another thread, but it's the same thing, you lose between 4 and 8 attack rounds using sange and recasting utsu ni.

4-8 rounds is 12->24 attacks worth of damage and tp gain. Sange doesn't come close to this, if you can prove it does, go for it. I just said how much it needs to do to keep up, if you can prove it can do this much, you can prove it can be useful.

I also didn't give exact damage numbers, I only gave delays, and # of attacks, and amount of TP.
If your throwing damage can exceed 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain, then throwing can be better. It just doesn't do that much, unless you're incredibly gimp, or have super duper amazing effing shurikens, like 500+ base damage.

All I get from this post is that you're happy with the way the game currently is, so why the hell are you even on these forums making suggestions, unless you're protesting creativity?

[wish12oz]

All I get from this post is that you're happy with the way the game currently is, so why the hell are you even on these forums making suggestions, unless you're protesting creativity?

I like the way the job works, and want to keep it the way it works, but I want ninja to do more melee damage, because it cannot keep up with with warrior. Very good Ukon warrior's are about 10% damage above me, I know ninja could make up this differance with new JAs and JTs, but not with BS stuff like throwing, so I put down the bad ideas and explain why stuff like throwing is dumb, to prevent SE from thinking it's a good idea. Like when they added yonin and innin, and suddenly thought ninja was all fixed and super good, when in reality those buffs were complete crap.

Ninja has been my favorite job since I first leveled it in 2004, all the nerfs to ninja and upgrades to every other job made it crap after awhile. Abyssea made it good again, because ninja was only good for weak mobs, and everything has now been weak for awhile. Once we leave abyssea if stuff is suddenly hard again, ninja will go back to the gutter, so we need to get SE to make GOOD improvements, not BS like adding new shurikens that can NEVER keep up.

[Akujima]

I like the way the job works, and want to keep it the way it works, but I want ninja to do more melee damage, because it cannot keep up with with warrior. Very good Ukon warrior's are about 10% damage above me, I know ninja could make up this differance with new JAs and JTs, but not with BS stuff like throwing, so I put down the bad ideas and explain why stuff like throwing is dumb, to prevent SE from thinking it's a good idea.

Please tell me which other Final Fantasy games you have played? Explain in which of those that "Throwing" was not a key feature to the Ninja Job or a Ninja-like Character?

Great you want Ninja to be "uber", but worrying about 10% less damage? Are people you hang around with in game calling you on it? Because if they judge you for doing 10% less damage in a video game, you need to hang out with some different people... People with decency.

10% less damage than a freaken WARRIOR no doubt, the king of melee jobs. I still don't understand how you would want to eradicate Role Playing from an RPG. But whatever I guess?...

The real problem is elitists calling out people for not being "the best" or "perfect" when they themselves can't give a definition to those things. Because there is no definition. You can do your hardest at anything, but there's always going to be someone that comes along and is "better" than you.

Next time someone calls you for doing 10% less damage, ask them to define the word "Perfection".

[Kuishen]

The real problem is elitists calling out people for not being "the best" or "perfect" when they themselves can't give a definition to those things. Because there is no definition. You can do your hardest at anything, but there's always going to be someone that comes along and is "better" than you.

Actually eventually you can hit perfect in this game because it is finite, unlike rl where everybody is imperfect, in this game once you obtain all the gear and skills that could possibly pertain to a job then you are perfect. Granted the game is designed to make that take a very long time but it's still possible.

So no, in this game, when dealing with a single job there won't always be somebody better than you. The same level as you sure, but not better.

Part of the definition is knowing what not to do because it isn't efficient, and throwing isn't efficient. Therefore if you're using throwing you are not being "the best". End of story. Your arguments about morals and all that other bullshit do not apply to a game that deals with absolute numbers. If you are doing less damage than you could be doing, then you are being inefficient and wasting everybody's time during an event. There's no room for morals in that formula.

Again, calling you out on the fact that you complained about casuals yet you are the textbook definition of one. Saying this in a nicer way so as to not get my post edited. Please kindly leave; while there is room in this game for casuals, there isn't room for you spewing your white-knight bullshit on a useless outdated ability that nobody cares about anymore, except for you. It can't possibly be fixed because of in-game limitations and balance issues, therefore, leave it alone.

[Akujima]

Actually eventually you can hit perfect in this game because it is finite, unlike rl where everybody is imperfect, in this game once you obtain all the gear and skills that could possibly pertain to a job then you are perfect. Granted the game is designed to make that take a very long time but it's still possible.

So no, in this game, when dealing with a single job there won't always be somebody better than you. The same level as you sure, but not better.

Yea, exactly. Because you're both just standing in 1 spot, mashing a couple of the same macro's, in the same gear, and you both look exactly the SAME... did I say same?

Part of the definition is knowing what not to do because it isn't efficient, and throwing isn't efficient. Therefore if you're using throwing you are not being "the best". End of story.

Example: Two Ninja's, exact same gear, exact same merits, etc, etc. Fighting a magic resistant boss... The boss starts flying... One Ninja, switches to his ranged attack gear, and to shuriken, doing damage to the boss while its in flight... The other Ninja stands around waiting for the boss to land, because he just wants to melee it.

Which Ninja is doing more damage?

Your arguments about morals and all that other bullshit do not apply to a game that deals with absolute numbers.

Since when did I pay $12.95 a month to play a freaking MUD?

If you are doing less damage than you could be doing, then you are being inefficient and wasting everybody's time during an event. There's no room for morals in that formula.

Again, calling you out on the fact that you complained about casuals yet you are the textbook definition of one. Saying this in a nicer way so as to not get my post edited. Please kindly leave; while there is room in this game for casuals, there isn't room for you spewing your white-knight bullshit on useless outdated ability that nobody cares about anymore, except for you. It can't possibly be fixed because of in-game limitations and balance issues, therefore, leave it alone.

Um... Would you like me to post screens of my playtime? I bet it's even more than you. Of course this is pre-abyssea playtime. Since then, I haven't been playing because it's boring and easy, with atma's that give you stat boosts through the roof.

The biggest mistake Square-Enix ever made, was firing the guy who was the lead developer of Chains of Promathia. Done and Done.

[Kuishen]

Yea, exactly. Because you're both just standing in 1 spot, mashing a couple of the same macro's, in the same gear, and you both look exactly the SAME... did I say same?



Since when did I pay $12.95 a month to play a freaking MUD?



Um... Would you like me to post screens of my playtime? I bet it's even more than you. Of course this is pre-abyssea playtime. Since then, I haven't been playing because it's boring and easy, with atma's that give you stat boosts through the roof.

The biggest mistake Square-Enix ever made, was firing the guy who was the lead developer of Chains of Promathia. Done and Done.

Because of how easy af3 is to get and seeing as how it's the best right now, yeah you're gonna look the same, later on when they add more shit for the hardcore players it won't be as bad. But yes I agree that I hate looking like the same as everybody else, but there's a reason for that, and that is because the gear is good.

Have you ever played a MUD? Because they have a lot less numbers and a lot more RPing, something you should prolly switch to if that's how you want to play.

Playtime has nothing to do with being a casual you twat. Yeah sure you may have been playing longer than me but I guarantee you I'm better geared and more skilled at my jobs than you will ever be with this kind of retarded attitude you keep spewing all over these forums.

CoP was terrible gameplay-wise, I have no clue why you are bringing this up, way to dodge all arguments again.

[wish12oz]

Please tell me which other Final Fantasy games you have played? Explain in which of those that "Throwing" was not a key feature to the Ninja Job or a Ninja-like Character?

Not every FF game has been exactly the same, quit thinking it has been, basic elements are there for jobs, and thats it. Ninja still has throwing in this game, its just not good once you get haste gear. You need to figure this out and stop thinking throwing is all a ninja should be doing.

Great you want Ninja to be "uber", but worrying about 10% less damage? Are people you hang around with in game calling you on it? Because if they judge you for doing 10% less damage in a video game, you need to hang out with some different people... People with decency.

10% less damage than a freaken WARRIOR no doubt, the king of melee jobs. I still don't understand how you would want to eradicate Role Playing from an RPG. But whatever I guess?...

The real problem is elitists calling out people for not being "the best" or "perfect" when they themselves can't give a definition to those things. Because there is no definition. You can do your hardest at anything, but there's always going to be someone that comes along and is "better" than you.

Next time someone calls you for doing 10% less damage, ask them to define the word "Perfection".

"Perfect for a job" is having everything useful the job can use. I'm 3-4 items away now for my ninja.

No one has called me out for being weaker then others, because its not that big of a difference. If you're asking if my group would bring a completely inferior job to anything though, we would not. It's a waste of time/manpower, and the person could bring something useful. I have 9 jobs leveled, guess which ones I play? Thats right, I only play the useful ones, my pld, drk, sam, and rng never see the light of day. When ninja wasn't useful as a tank anymore, I leveled pld, and I tanked on that. My idea of fun, is not bringing some gimp job and playing like an idiot, if that's your idea of fun, then I hope I never run into you in game. And maybe if you were better at ninja, and bothered to learn how the game worked instead of wishing it worked differently, you could solo your kannagi instead of pleeding with people to do it for you. I solo'd half of mine at 85, I'm sure you could do it even easier at 90.

[Akujima]

And maybe if you were better at ninja, and bothered to learn how the game worked instead of wishing it worked differently, you could solo your kannagi instead of pleeding with people to do it for you. I solo'd half of mine at 85, I'm sure you could do it even easier at 90.

I actually don't do that. But according to your motto "faster is better", then it would help to have an LS wipe my arse, so I can get a really cooool looking weapon that I don't really give a crap about. Heck, it could be a gnarly tree branch with thorns on it, so long as it does good damage, then it will make me happy right?

[Fiarlia]

Please tell me which other Final Fantasy games you have played? Explain in which of those that "Throwing" was not a key feature to the Ninja Job or a Ninja-like Character?

Final Fantasy. Yes, the original. Ninjas didn't throw anything, they cast black magic. Not Ninjutsu versions, actual Black Magic spells.

Final Fantasy VII, though arguable. Granted, she uses a shuriken and throws it, but that's just her attack animation. This is only throwing in the graphical sense, not in the sense that Ninjas from other games throw stuff. It can be done by equipping the "Throw" Materia, but since every character can also equip this Materia, it doesn't really count as it's not specific to Ninja-like people (Yuffie).

Final Fantasy XII (International version, as the normal has no "jobs").

Final Fantasy XII Revenent Wings.