A Ninja without Throwing...

[Akujima]

This thread in one post:

Well I congratulate you on your mathematical algebraic biased summary of this entire thread. You seem to be forgetting other people who might actually be FOR throwing, bringing back the nostalgia that was once in the Final Fantasy series. But you wouldn't care about such nonsense now would you?

As far as making something that would work, to please so called "fanboys" or "RP'ers who lack skill" which is some stereotypical hogwash, your best excuse is "It's too hard, so just %@#! it." Alright then continue to be lazy and unimaginative.

Not every piece in chess moves like a pawn, it's actually a colorful and thoughtful game where each piece is unique and has endless possibilities and outcomes. You seem to want to diminish this factor in favor of using less, doing less, being less, less, less, less.

Well great, once you can graduate from checkers, I'll be over playing chess with other thoughtful people, discussing complex battle tactics, while you peer over from your duo-tone world of black and white. Just don't be upset when you come over to have a game with me, because I have all my angles covered.

[Karbuncle]

I like throwing shuriken on stuff... Should I quit ffxi asap?
I like some RPG in a MMORPG game... Should i quit ffxi asap?
I like to play a job, my way... Should I quit ffxi asap?
I like to read CS in ffxi, doing quest for the story and the fun of doing them not just for the silly reward they can offer... Should I quit ffxi asap?

If you answer "yes" on most question, then I'm sorry for you guys, but I will continue to play ffxi and I don't f...in care about being an elite if that mean I can't be myself and have "fun" on a "game" I "play" to pass good time with friends.

About OP, I'm agree that Shuriken could be improved a little. At least, having some 99 stack than can be higher then lv48 and decntly obtainable (or w/e it spell). Throwing skill was some good kick ass at 75, now everyone seem to forget how cool its was to deal massive DMG from those lil spiky stars...

Admitedly I don't know much after Page 2, but this Thread began with "Ninja Should get a buff to throwing" in which i replied "The amount of time/effort required to buff Throwing would be impossible. You would either need to nerf Ninja, Or buff throwing to the point NIN would be a better Ranged attacker than RNG"

To which i got something a long the lines of "BRRHRLJGLHRLBBRLBRLUELITISTS"

To which i said "It just wont happen, But that doesn't mean you can't RP, Go throw Shurikens. You don't seem to mind others opinions on your damage"

To which the thread continued to degrade.

Point Being, This thread could have ended on page 1 with "Ninja will likely never get a throwing buff, But it doesn't mean you can't throw if you want too"

It didnt, And its not entirely the fault of those opposing the OP. Its a joint failure. Everyones to blame, and no ones immune to it.

At the very least I told him to play how he wants, but don't expect a Buff to Throwing, because it wont come.

[Greatguardian]

At the very least I told him to play how he wants, but don't expect a Buff to Throwing, because it wont come.

This is pretty much what I've ended my past few posts with. Shit, it's not a crime to go and goof off on your own time. It's just annoying as shit to force other people to deal with your goofing off in a group scenario. Negatively impacting other people with RP shuriken bullshit is the only problem I've ever had with it.

Saying the game can't buff Shuriken enough to make them worth a damn is not me being "Anti-Shuriken". It's me being realistic and knowing how the game functions.

[Bulrogg]

there isn't a single Ranged WS that works without a Ranged equipment component.

Mistral Axe anyone... Would that be a Boomeraxe?

But I guess Mistal Axe would be the exception?

[Akujima]

This is pretty much what I've ended my past few posts with....

Saying the game can't buff Shuriken enough to make them worth a damn is not me being "Anti-Shuriken". It's me being realistic and knowing how the game functions.

Just because you're too lazy to make the changes, that has nothing to do with the developers who might actually care about nostalgia. And just because the NIN you've encountered have their throwing skill below 3 digits, doesn't mean that Sange does completely terrible damage that it wastes your valuable playtime.

Would it hurt you to think outside the box for once?

[Khajit]

Thinking outside the box only works when the box doesn't represent things that are actually possible to do in any way shape or form.

[Karbuncle]

Mistral Axe anyone... Would that be a Boomeraxe?

But I guess Mistal Axe would be the exception?

Gust Slash, Cyclone, and Bora Axe are also Ranged.

Everyone makes mistakes though :x, his point still stands. SE themselves said its impossible for them to make Throwing Weaponskills due to the nature of throwing Weapons (boomerangs, Darts, main/Sub, infinite/Ammo'd), etc. That the game wouldn't recognize the two as seperate. So the game couldn't tell the difference between Shuriken or a Boomerang.

Something like that, Its been a long time, Either way SE said at the least Ranged WS are out of the question, it could have been excuses but we don't know.

Really, I've even considered this, I have brainstormed, But there is no logical way to make Throwing Viable without giving NIN a supply of throwing items with the DMG of Sky-winds and about 50 Delay in mass supply that stack to 99. Even that is still stretching it in terms of being useful. I tried to think of any other way that did not involve a nerf of the job and i cannot simply think of a way to make it work. Throwing is Limited. as is ranged as a whole. Maybe
SE can just make a WS that throws the katana like a Kunai "bora axe' Style. there we go, NIN's throwing Kunai.

[Greatguardian]

@Bul, ITT: "Ranged Attacks call a Ranged equipment function" = "Any attack with a range greater than 6.0' requires a Ranged weapon"

Melee WS with greater than 6.0' range are still Melee WS using Melee functions with a range exception. You don't use Ranged Attack for Mistral Axe, do you? No. Ranged attacks and Melee attacks have been completely separate beasts since 2002.

That said, I really really really don't know how "THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE AT ALL UNLESS THEY MAKE A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" comes off as "I THINK THE DEVELOPERS ARE TOO LAZY TO DO IT". Christ. They're nowhere near the same thing. The Developers are the ones who said Throwing WS is impossible. The game itself precludes Throwing for TP ever being a decent source of damage. They can't just "Get rid of Haste". Sorry. That's a pipe dream.

@Karbuncle, the only thing I could possibly think of was making a new Shuriken synth with high damage, low delay, and expensive but abundant mats like something in the high-end Smithing or Goldsmithing line (Ingots?). Then, giving NIN a JA which can be potentially fulltimed that acts like Velocity Shot; Increasing melee attack Delay (WITHOUT touching Melee Attack, or possibly Acc as well if made more important later) while allowing the NIN to throw 3 Shuriken at once every throw. The reason Melee Attack/Acc need to stay untouched is the fact that you *WILL* be using Blade: Jin/Blade: Hi despite TP'ing with Shurikens. You're also going to be in Melee attack range fulltime anyways. Using Shuriken from greater than 6.0' away is just dumb, your Ranged Attack/Acc get shot.

Yeah, it's an expensive as shit solution, but Ranged DD has always been expensive. Using consumables for damage = paying out the nose. The only issue with Oberon's Bullets and such for COR at the moment is the completely screwed materials supply.

[Akujima]

So I decided to test my own things out and walk the walk, instead of talking the talk all the time.

For all you number crunchers out there.
Try not to get a boner, because you finally get to see a chart.


THROWING SKILL: 359

FOOD: SQUID SUSHI
ATMA'S: STOUT ARM, GNARLED HORN, RAZED RUINS


STATS

Elvaan 90 NIN/45 WAR

STR 94+106
DEX 80+119
VIT 83+60
AGI 77+146
INT 68+60
MND 70+59
CHR 70+60

ATK: 691 (Berserk ON)


GEAR

MAIN: SEKKA+2 (AGI)
SUB: SEKKA+2 (AGI)
AMMO: MANJI SHURIKEN
HEAD: SAIKA HACHIMAKI
NECK: ARCTIER'S TORQUE
L.EAR: VISION EARRING
R.EAR: SUPPANOMIMI
BODY: WAR SHINOBI GI
HANDS: NINJA TEKKO+1
L.RING: CROSSBOWMAN'S RING
R.RING: BEHEMOTH RING+1
BACK: AMEMET MANTLE+1
WAIST: HURLING BELT
LEGS: NINJA HAKAMA
FEET: MISSLE BOOTS

AREA: ABYSS-GRAUB

MOB: STYGAN DJINN (Decent Challange)

THROWS:

#1 Crit 288
#2 Crit 299
#3 Strikes True 182
#4 Crit 295
#5 Crit 292

SANGE: 1490 (4 shadows) All 5 hits landed


AREA: ABYSS-ULEG

MOB: SIERRA TIGER (Incredibly Tough)

THROWS:

#1 Crit 214
#2 Strikes True 131
#3 Crit 221
#4 Crit 223
#5 Crit 202

SANGE: 830 (4 shadows) All 5 hits landed


AREA: ABYSS-ALTEP

MOB: SAND SWEEPER (Tough)

THROWS:

#1 Crit 249
#2 Crit 256
#3 Crit 260
#4 Crit 260
#5 Crit 244

SANGE: 664 (4 shadows) 4 hits landed


SPECIAL: SWIFTSHOT TONIC

AREA: ABYSS-GRAUB

MOB: GOBLIN MEATGRINDER (EASY PREY)

THROWS:

#1 539 -----> Crit 331 + Strikes True 208
#2 664 -----> 2X Crit 332 + 332
#3 660 -----> 2X Crit 325 + 335
#4 522 -----> Crit 318 + Strikes True 204
#5 402 -----> 2X Strikes True 202 + 200



So basically it looks like Sange throws dont factor in crits, because you'll notice the damage difference between 5 regular throws and Sange (Being 5 hits as 1 Throw). Keep in mind that I'm using Lv48 Shuriken, But still 1 Throw doesn't seem to bad for damage, even with such low level shuriken.

Get Sange to factor in critical damage, get in higher level shuriken, so that every once in awhile we can have a spike damage from Sange, and change Sange to not have you lose shadows, so that it doesn't annoy people.

[wish12oz]

I'm gonna spell this out for you, try not to get lost, read it til you get it.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Argue against me, go ahead.