A Ninja without Throwing...

[Kazen]

I'm going to have to agree with Greatguardian here, gimp is gimp. Throwing was great pre 50 before you could have access to all of the dual wield bonuses and haste we have available at 90. No one is stopping you from being an inferior throwing ninja, after all it is your $12.95; it is unfair however for you to want the rest of the server to conform to your misguided play style.

It really won't matter what SE adds because it's extremely unlikely that throwing will ever be able to win out against haste and delay reduction. You can call FFXI a strategic game all you want but in reality FFXI is a game about numbers. Very little real "strategy" is needed to accomplish anything in this game.

P.S: Before you pull another RL card and try to call me fat as well I'll have you know I'm currently eating potato chips... however, I also had a full physical last week and my BMI is 20.3.

[Fiarlia]

Really? We've got someone arguing that doing good damage is stupid and pointless?

I mean, even most gimps try to say that they do "big WS's" or exaggerate how their accuracy is, or swear up and down that they attack fast enough and don't need haste, but this has got to be one of the most retarded arguments I've ever seen.

Whining and complaining that people care more about doing damage than using throwing on NIN? Fucking really? I mean, how dare someone want to try and be efficient, and have fun doing so.

[wish12oz]

Whining and complaining that people care more about doing damage than using throwing on NIN? Fucking really? I mean, how dare someone want to try and be efficient, and have fun doing so.

THOSE DIRTY CAPITALIST NA'S ARE TO BLAME! WE SHOULD BAN THEM ALL!!
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/SSDsmall.jpg
(to bad you cant display images in these forums =[ my LS's banner would look so hot right here)

[Guitarman]

Chess

An intelligent game of strategic thought.




Smashing a watermelon with a stick

The route modern video games are going.

chess = what intelligent players are doing; maximizing dps, staying away from throwing which was added just as an afterthought

watermelon = what you're suggesting.

[Bulrogg]

I'm not trying to get Shurikens battles to replace melee DMG. Throwing was better at lower levels, with a few adjustments it could come back into play. Again, not trying to replace melee with shuriken battles. Throwing a star was just as good as using provoke at lower levels in terms of regaining a monsters attention, even now it still will return a mob to me that has run off.

like I said before....

Throwing is situational at best. It could be updated to make it more than that. I am for this update.

and really you guys shouldn't bicker and insult each other so much in all these threads.

[Kensagaku]

To use your own chess metaphor:

Chess is a game of strategy, using every one of the pieces to its greatest advantage in order to win, in order to defeat the foe. Sometimes pieces must be sacrificed to set yourself up in a better position so that you may win more easily by removing obstacles in your way.

The FFXI community has chosen to sacrifice throwing in order to remove the obstacles of a lower DPS as well as cost/scarcity of shuriken, and further increase their overall damage, making themselves more efficient and setting themselves up to defeat their foes reasonably and without the risk of losing in return that slowing themselves via shuriken would bring.

In other words, you're welcome to throw your stars, even shout a good dattebayo or two if you're really feeling froggy (summon a frog too, it's ninja-esque!), but in the end, it's about the equivalent of attempting to get win a game of chess with nothing but a pawn.

You lose. Checkmate. Go smash that watermelon and pretend it's the posters here on the forums, it'll help you vent.

Edit: The tags sum this thread up soooo well.

[AyinDygra]

I'm not one to argue, so I'll just state my observations about this dispute.

It's based on preconceptions that are not written in stone. Despite this, some people seem to think certain aspects of Throwing and the game system are unreasonable to be expected to change. The dev team in recent times have showed that they are not afraid of changing things.

Preconception number 1: Throwing has to match or exceed melee damage to be useful.

This just isn't true. Throwing stars or other throwing items could be made with special effects that make them more useful than damage. They can have effects that expand on the Ninja's current ninjutsu capability: there are many effects that could be added, such as terror, provoke, amnesia, add weakness to weapon types, etc. Also, on the topic of damage/accuracy, they can potentially add a second sweet spot to throwing in general, so they have both "melee range" and the longest ranged distance, or alter Innin/Yonin to change the Throwing sweet spot as well.

Preconception number 2: Throwing items are too expensive and always will be, even if they had/have/will have good stats.

There are many ways for SE to change this in crafting, from changing the needed ingredients to the number of items created from recipes. They could even add alternate recipes through synergy (even though I don't particularly like synergy myself.) Shuriken gained through battle rewards could drop in stacks instead of singles. And NPCs could sell affordable throwing items or materials (even though they're at absurd prices right now.)

Preconception number 3: Throwing can never have weaponskills.

While it's true that SE said it wasn't possible in the combat system at the time, there are other ways to implement this feature to accomplish the same result (or better): My throwing weaponskill solution over in the Battle Content forum.

[Akujima]

Yea AyinDygra, you are right, but guess what?

All they care about is their preconceptions, and %#$@ anyone else who has an imagination or a positive attitude to come up with something legitimate. You can go blue in the face trying to present valid reasons, but they just wont hear you, because it comes down to one simple fact: they're right and you're wrong, no explanation needed.

[Akujima]

To use your own chess metaphor:

Obviously you don't understand the chess metaphor at all "bro".

It takes no skill to be able to kiss @$$ (sry, maybe it takes @$$ kissing skill) to be in line for all the best gear, getting your whole LS to camp empyrean weapon NM's for you, and give you all the coins, cards, stones, jewels needed for your uber set of gear. While you stand in 1 spot, smashing 1~2 macro's in order get the highest dmg.

Even World of Warcraft had better boss mechanics, at least there were times when disengaging from the enemy was a smart thing to do, or backing up and using distance to the advantage.

But, guess what? FFXI is turning into a button mashing-fest, where everyones so happy to have +300 STR and 3000 HP. Because the bigger the better. But that's just the popular mentality, and you lack the imagination needed to even come up with creative ideas, but rather just spew the same #$@% that is already in the game.

If you STILL haven't realized, I'm talking about putting throwing back into the game that is viable.

But all you can do is gang up with everyone else slapping Naruto insults on me, because you lack individuality and can't fight your own battles.

[Greatguardian]

You're one of the most absolutely bitter posters I've ever had the displeasure of reading on these forums.

Maybe, instead of being bitter about "ass kissers" getting tons of shit, you should be proactive, find some sane friends, and get tons of shit with them. It's really not hard if the people involved are half-bloody-decent at the game. That's what the majority of the good players in the game are doing. You know, the actual elite class. Not whoever you've been ranting about that call themselves "elite".

Useless idea is useless anyways. Throwing can never, ever be viable no matter how much they buff it because of the way Haste works in FFXI. Until Haste affects Ranged Attacks (it won't), or NIN is given an auto-throw trait like Kick Attacks (this is highly unlikely due to the fact that it could cause NINs to throw Smart Grenades, etc), Throwing will be nothing more than a toy.