BST adjustment did not address the problem, Devs please read

[saevel]

So now that smn can do physical bps significantly stronger than any ready move tell me again how strong physical pet moves are too strong to let master be at range

Pet damage output was never the reason BST was broken in the first place. Buffed melee's could always do more damage then pets. The problem was BST's pets had such absurdly high HP, and so much pet -DT, that it wasn't difficult for the master to keep them alive while staying comfortably out of range of the nasty status ailment spam most NM's have these days. There were only a few other ways to deal with it but BST zerg was the simplest method with the least chance of error and thus the preferred strategy. Now people use the SCH + GEO + BLM strategy because it's the second least chance of error followed by RNG Decoy Shot spam and finally melees. RNG Decoy is slow and a bit complicated but if done right it's safe and effective. Melee zerg is effective but lots of things can go wrong and requires the most attention from support, meaning people can't multi-box it effectively.

To address the problem of BSTs SE had a few options. First they could nerf the content so that it didn't spam AoE status ailments and other cheap tactics that discourage people being close to it. They could of severely nerfed pet HP down to 2.5~3K while lowering the DT cap and defensive stats. They could of created some sort of gimmick that punished the pet for it's master being too far away, or they could of just reduced the range of the JA's. The best option would of been the first but SE instead chose to do the easiest way and just force BST's to stand in the same spot melee's have to stand. Thus while the pet, with it's 6K HP and super -DT, could easily eat the NM's super cheesy attack, the master with his/her 2.2K HP couldn't.

People need to first understand exactly what was unbalanced before they attempt a fix. I know BST's everywhere want to go back to the days of killing the hardest mobs while eating cheeto's and watching youtube cat videos, but that is extremely unbalanced and bad for the long term health of the community.

As for SMN, their pets are still super duper squishy. Avatars have the stats of a Black Mage without manawall. They have low HP and limited DT except against their strong elements. They now have some pretty powerful offensive moves but are still made of glass and the BP timer sucks. Unlike BST, SMN doesn't get a charge mechanic to enable them to spam, they need to burn a SP in order to do that for a limited time. To be perfectly honest pet jobs in FFXI have always been hit or miss. They are either Godlike broken powerful, or nearly useless, never something in between.

[Urmom]

Pet damage output was never the reason BST was broken in the first place. Buffed melee's could always do more damage then pets. The problem was BST's pets had such absurdly high HP, and so much pet -DT, that it wasn't difficult for the master to keep them alive while staying comfortably out of range of the nasty status ailment spam most NM's have these days.

See here's the thing though... avatars actually have access to plenty of dt and while less hp they can be very easily resummoned so that same argument held true with smn as well unless you trying to tank with them. But outside of doing the right set of buffs/debuffs or getting great MB (in which they could do crazy capped dmg) avatars tended to do less dmg move per move while at the same time having longer timers, that combined with the fact no one cared until they buffed ready and the fact no one still cares rng has the same benefits, or the fact automatons have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more durable for awhile makes it clear dmg output was clearly a huge component in it. If it truly was just about avoiding AoEs and durability then their is a clear argument to reduce the range of all pet commands, ranged attacks and casting distance by a good deal

As for SMN, their pets are still super duper squishy. Avatars have the stats of a Black Mage without manawall. They have low HP and limited DT except against their strong elements. They now have some pretty powerful offensive moves but are still made of glass and the BP timer sucks. Unlike BST, SMN doesn't get a charge mechanic to enable them to spam, they need to burn a SP in order to do that for a limited time. To be perfectly honest pet jobs in FFXI have always been hit or miss. They are either Godlike broken powerful, or nearly useless, never something in between.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of jug pet dts. Almost all of it came from gear. The main exceptions being if you used the right pet against the right elements and even then only a small number of pets were strong against elements most of those pets being pretty bad and only about half the elements being covered. Only a couple of pets had any physical dts and all of them came with an extreme weakness to another physical dmg type. Meanwhile avatars all have a weird 50% pseudo pdt. As far as gear/trait dt perfectly geared bst including stout servant will have 58% pet dt I believe and 4 more pet pdt. While smn would have 46% dt with another 4 pdt. A difference for sure but not some a omg completely squishy vs the most durable thing in the world. Especially when factor in the weird pdt it actually gives them higher physical dmg reduction outside of again the pets that had reductions to specific types but weaknesses to others. Similarly if the mob focuses on a particular element you could gain even greater reduction to elemental dmg. Meanwhile my auto over here can get capped pdt and mdt over 50% bdt a bunch of mdb and a few weird separately factored dts while riding a permanent 200 regen <.<. Also will never come close to either bst or smns dps in a million years even if I didn't have to wait on tp and stupid pet AI

Not that it matters as much as you make it out to be because their is a huge fundamental difference between the need to keep the pet alive. You lose your avatar oh no summon it up again assuming you didn't ya know dismiss it on your own after the bp and maybe miss a couple of seconds off of riding your bp if you weren't paying attention... bst loses a pet well hope bestial loyalty is up. It isn't well call beast a possibly worse pet (or use up a really expensive hq jug). Oh that's not up too well shit just sit there and do nothing.

As far as system... spamming isn't all it's cracked up to be. A lot of the more powerful moves are 2 charges anyways and every single one with a lvl 2 element is except the ones that are 3 charges so even if they moved bps to a charge system you still wouldn't be spamming the most powerful if they went that same route. Regardless using 2 moves in 20 seconds for a top end of 20-30k dmg each doesn't beat out the now top end of 70k every 22 seconds. No one really cares if you can do smaller spikes more often if the dps is less. Especially given the sp2s of the 2 jobs. In fact with the range as it is right now it can actually be hard to ride your timers and not die at times especially in group play and it would probably be better for bst if our moves did a bunch more dmg but had longer timers.

Let's not forget it's more than just dding. Because while they have pretty much destroyed the entire debuff and magical section of jugs and made them into a hammer avatars have way more utility being able to do wards while still doing rage. Or just doing the debuffs. Heck how many of the fights with really bad dmg moves at least start out revolving around lullaby?