Please don't nerf beastmaster

[Arthos]

....you also want to get the pet some TP inbetween to boost the move.

I was wrong on that. In Theory it looks like a good idea, but after some testing it seems the TP collected under 1000 doesn't count towards the TP bonus.

[bazookatooth]

Let's be honest here. Most of the gear ( Especially the axes) that give the pet enough accuracy to hit anything difficult, doesn't give the master any accuracy. Then you lose other melee stats to DT-, DA etc. for the pet. So even if you get to melee on BST, either the master or the pet is gonna have horrible damage output and take massive damage. Even if they add more gear to compensate for that, the best case scenario is you wasted hundreds of millions on augments and / or the new gear still isn't as good as what we had before. If they make the gear good enough that both master and pet are capable of being front-line on difficult stuff, they will be invincible against med-low difficulty stuff. Forcing the master into melee range is a horrible idea.

[kylani]

Let's be honest here. Most of the gear ( Especially the axes) that give the pet enough accuracy to hit anything difficult, doesn't give the master any accuracy. Then you lose other melee stats to DT-, DA etc. for the pet. So even if you get to melee on BST, either the master or the pet is gonna have horrible damage output and take massive damage. Even if they add more gear to compensate for that, the best case scenario is you wasted hundreds of millions on augments and / or the new gear still isn't as good as what we had before. If they make the gear good enough that both master and pet are capable of being front-line on difficult stuff, they will be invincible against med-low difficulty stuff. Forcing the master into melee range is a horrible idea.

I agree. The master doesn't survive as well as other jobs. My WHM with much less effort equipping survives melee far better than my BST. Beast requires trade-offs between buffing the pet and master.

It's rather frustrating that after all of the time that Beast is laughed at for end game content and considered a joke by the 'play a real job like Monk or Sam' players, now that there is one end game event that BST is good at, it's kill BeastMaster vs. making other jobs able to do the content.

I don't do much endgame anymore, so I don't care as much about the magic blast nerfs (though I feel terribly bad for those who spent a fortune equipping to take advantage of it), but I'd hate to see the job destroyed. I like a lot of jobs, but I've played BST and made it work when others, including friends, laughed at how 'useless' it was in the scheme of endgame. I played bard, whm, or rdm for group events because BST was unwanted, but still duoed with a PUP friend for some of the best times I've had in the game. Even if it wasn't the conventional, optimal way to accomplish goals, it was fun figuring out a way to work with the jobs strengths and weaknesses. This whole thread is depressing.

[Ulth]

Gear is a problem for the pet jobs where the master engages in combat. The problem is, like bazooka said, they make the owner choose between gearing the pet or gearing themselves. One set they need to add is a heavy armor set where the master gets accuracy, attack, double attack, and store tp, while the pet gets damage taken, accuracy, and HP. That way beastmaster can have pet tanking armor while still attacking, and dragoon can have a DD set where its wyvern doesn't get one shot. Fix two problems right there. A master mab, and pet mab set wouldn't hurt either. Giving beastmaster more mab would help make fencer more useful for weaponskills like primal rend, and cloud splitter. Speaking of fencer, some 119 shields wouldn't hurt.

You need some carrots to go with your stick. It's not enough to penalize beastmaster for not engaging with its pet. You also have to incentivize that play style. In the original Japanese response that trigger this thread it was mentioned that the 10 second ready timer was fine because by using charmer's merlin the player gives up all the damage that the master would do. Which to players is a pretty no brainer trade off. The master does not do enough damage to not have the pet use a tp move 50% faster. Especially when the master standing out of aoe range is safer. Lowering the range ready can be used make it a little less safe, but only changes one half of the problem.

[bazookatooth]

Gear is a problem for the pet jobs where the master engages in combat. The problem is, like bazooka said, they make the owner choose between gearing the pet or gearing themselves. One set they need to add is a heavy armor set where the master gets accuracy, attack, double attack, and store tp, while the pet gets damage taken, accuracy, and HP. That way beastmaster can have pet tanking armor while still attacking, and dragoon can have a DD set where its wyvern doesn't get one shot. Fix two problems right there. A master mab, and pet mab set wouldn't hurt either. Giving beastmaster more mab would help make fencer more useful for weaponskills like primal rend, and cloud splitter. Speaking of fencer, some 119 shields wouldn't hurt.

You need some carrots to go with your stick. It's not enough to penalize beastmaster for not engaging with its pet. You also have to incentivize that play style. In the original Japanese response that trigger this thread it was mentioned that the 10 second ready timer was fine because by using charmer's merlin the player gives up all the damage that the master would do. Which to players is a pretty no brainer trade off. The master does not do enough damage to not have the pet use a tp move 50% faster. Especially when the master standing out of aoe range is safer. Lowering the range ready can be used make it a little less safe, but only changes one half of the problem.

The unfortunate problem with adding those armor sets is they won't come before the nerf, if they come at all. And if they do actually make a set like that, people will just cry nerf again because the pet and the master are doing decent damage. Either that, or go back to using other DD jobs instead of beast master because Not getting killed is literally the only thing that beast master is better at.

[zataz]

Name all the mobs post Delve that constantly petrify. Status cures take time to cast, especially if you don't have a Yagrush present. Slow, plague, paralyze etc will all have worse effects on player than a pet. My debuff argument makes plenty sense, have you never gotten debuffed before in content? At this point we are going in circles, people who are all BST 4 eva vs people who feel its OP atm. At this point we need parses or proof of your NIN beating a well geared BST with all buffs equal, because I am not buying that. I wanna see gear and parse, on paper they should not be losing to a NIN at all (FYI I have access to multiple BSTs account well geared.) Final point is, 10s ready time is the issue and needs to be remedied.

idk about all the mobs =P but in the words of tony montana fly Pelican

[Gwydion]

Grekumah,
Beastmaster's ready distances don't need to change. They've been the same way for 13 years. Just leave it as is. If you want to adjust individual moves, fine...but just leave the mechanics of playing BST the same.

Besides, we play with trusts and shortening Ready distances could impact how we play with Trusts and may cause them to disengage unintentionally.

Edit: I'm all for enhancing other jobs if one truly feels that Beastmaster has an advantage here. I think BST is fine the way it is right now.

[Arthos]

The unfortunate problem with adding those armor sets is they won't come before the nerf, if they come at all. And if they do actually make a set like that, people will just cry nerf again because the pet and the master are doing decent damage. Either that, or go back to using other DD jobs instead of beast master because Not getting killed is literally the only thing that beast master is better at.

Those Armor exists already.
Taeon, Despair, some Empy pieces. For ready moves you can simple switch to a full pet-set. You loose some points of Pet dt, but this is still acceptable in group content.
The problem is more located in the weapon section, here you have to decide, if you want to see a good ready move, or be able to hit with master on a D battlefield e.g..
If you stick with Ready move, you can disengage, because your hit rate will be not high enough. And this is what happened.

[Calatilla]

Many would like to melee alongside their pet. It's mainly limited by gear. You loose all your TP on a ready move or you gimp your ready move alot. In theory you can balance this out with a self SC, but that's more for solo play, it will rarely work in a group.
If you don't change available gear, you will just see us run in and out (or maybe just shutdown because of the stupidity), but not engage the mob, because it's senseless.

It's also a bit funny trying to solve that problem with just letting us run into the AoE's. While we on it, let's also bring the mages at higher risk, 21 yalm is a bit easy mode. Reduce casting range to 10 yalm atleast. They mostly can survive AoE's even better than a bst anyway.

I mean seriously, ...

Like the adjustment to the evasion moves though. That's fair game.

SMN has had to brave AoE's to use Rages since day one and it hasn't done them any harm, and SMN is a wet paper bag compared to BST when it comes to taking a hit.

[Arthos]

SMN has had to brave AoE's to use Rages since day one and it hasn't done them any harm, and SMN is a wet paper bag compared to BST when it comes to taking a hit.

SMN is a wet paper bag, that's true, but not when it comes to magic damage, which most AoE are.
There it is much more durable than bst:

-MDB from subjob redmage or whitemage
-MDB from light armor, which gives more than heavy armor
-Shell V, which is alone ~25% magic damage taken less
-several bloodpacts like earthen armor, earhen ward, ...

+ you can cure yourself over and over again, with bloodpacts or elementals or with subjob

Looking into BST now:

....nothing