"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Afania]

I don't need a new argument. My first one was fine. You haven't proven it wrong, why would I change it?

Except you don't HAVE an argument, that's why you need a new one. You're asking for a change, a change(no exclusive items) that's different direction from other MMO on the market, thus you should tell us why a change can increase the profit of this game.

For 5 pages your only argument was twisting my motivation into something else and your personal subjective opinion about what makes the game fun.

If you want to argue that easy mythic would result a increase sub number in a short amount of time, maybe I'd agree with you. WoW is correct that some ppl may sub a bit longer just to build one.

What about after he's done in 1 month? What about after 3 years? When 50% of the players own 10 mythics, what is THEIR motivation to keep playing?

Further more, that means any future content added into the game would not offer enough reward for ppl to do it.

If 10% of the players own mythic, 90% of the players would still want to do new content for a good weapon. Those 10% mythic owners may also do new content for jobs they don't have mythic.

If 50% of the players own 20 mythics, when next tier of content is out, only 50% of ppl would do the new content, rest of the playerbase would just sit in town complaining about how boring this game is because gears from the new content don't beat their mythic........

And they quit.

If you look at this from a bigger picture, not how sub goes after 3 months, but how sub goes after 3+ years, it'd hurt the game in the long run.

You can keep twisting my motivation over and over again, but it's not an argument that can make the game better, it only make you feel like winning an internet argument.

Putting rewards that 100% of your customers want in content that only 10% of your customers are entertained by enough and / or have time to actually do is pretty bad design. The reason is incredibly obvious. I agree. It really shouldn't take 5 pages to figure it out.

Except that's not how MMO works. MMO is about having exclusive items for different tiers of players, every other titles have been doing that for past 15 years...you aren't getting the best items in other MMO without beating the highest tier raid as well. It shouldn't take 5 pages nor a masters in game design to know that following the winning formula established in the industry is the best direction.

[FrankReynolds]

Except you don't HAVE an argument, that's why you need a new one. You're asking for a change, a change(no exclusive items) that's different direction from other MMO on the market, thus you should tell us why a change can increase the profit of this game.

I'm talking about taking something that takes 6 months and making it take slightly less. I don't know what you're talking about, but you go with your bad self.

If you want to argue that easy mythic would result a increase sub number in a short amount of time, maybe I'd agree with you. WoW is correct that some ppl may sub a bit longer just to build one.

What about after he's done in 1 month? What about after 3 years? When 50% of the players own 10 mythics, what is THEIR motivation to keep playing?

If I'm not going to build a mythic I guess I have to quit right? I mean Technically I am finished with all mythics I could ever want because I never intend to build one. Now what? I have all the mythics I will ever want. How have you solved my problem?

Further more, that means any future content added into the game would not offer enough reward for ppl to do it.

Says who? You? Did you decide that the weapon slot was the only thing that would ever matter in the game for the rest of it's duration? Are you head developer? Are you canceling development of all new armor, merit categories, job points? Spells, abilities etc?

Tell me now so I don't waste all week stock piling job points and earning gil for nothing.

If 10% of the players own mythic, 90% of the players would still want to do new content for a good weapon. Those 10% mythic owners may also do new content for jobs they don't have mythic.

According to you they can't. It's mythic or quit. They already have all the things and nothing left to live for but mythics.

If 50% of the players own 20 mythics, when next tier of content is out, only 50% of ppl would do the new content, rest of the playerbase would just sit in town complaining about how boring this game is because gears from the new content don't beat their mythic........

And they quit.

Because again, you are head developer and you have cancelled all updates not pertaining to the weapon slot. Got it.

If you look at this from a bigger picture, not how sub goes after 3 months, but how sub goes after 3+ years, it'd hurt the game in the long run.

Only if you disable everything but the weapon slot and make everything not a mythic suck too bad to beat anything.

You can keep twisting my motivation over and over again, but it's not an argument that can make the game better, it only make you feel like winning an internet argument.

I won the argument a long time ago. I just want to see what crazy stuff you'll say at this point.

Except that's not how MMO works. MMO is about having exclusive items for different tiers of players, every other titles have been doing that for past 15 years...you aren't getting the best items in other MMO without beating the highest tier raid as well. It shouldn't take 5 pages nor a masters in game design to know that following the winning formula established in the industry is the best direction.

You don't even know what the industry standard is. You are again pretending to be an authority on something you know nothing about.

[Afania]

Stuff that mostly makes 0 sense blah blah

At this point of time I don't even know what you want to argue about anymore except faster mythics, I read every word you said and I couldn't understand what you're really trying to say, lol.

However, about your opinion on "ppl still gonna play the content without weapon slot!", look at alluvion skirmish, it's dead because of RME/delve weapons. You don't need to be the authority of the industry to see how other titles work.

[Balloon]

At this point of time I don't even know what you want to argue about anymore, I read every word you said and I couldn't understand what you're really trying to say, lol.

However, about your opinion on "ppl still gonna play the content without weapon slot!", look at alluvion skirmish, it's dead because of RME/delve weapons

He said that people would still play content that doesn't reward weapons, but instead rewards gear/accessories/etc. You complain about people misrepresenting your argument when you do it yourself..

Are you canceling development of all new armor, merit categories, job points? Spells, abilities etc?

Tell me now so I don't waste all week stock piling job points and earning gil for nothing.

You also did it with the whole 6 year thing and have done it to me in previous threads. I'm not sure if you do it on purpose... I'm sure you think you know more about Game Design though, when in reality you're postulating on the exact same things we are with the exact same information we have.

As for this argument, it's honestly too long and I don't care enough to put my eggs in either basket. I'll never get a mythic. I don't play frequently or maintain the necessary amount of self control to do the events every day. But I think it's incredibly erroneous to compare the acquisition of a Relic or Mythic to other content in other MMOs. Don't pretend all players that have a mythic are good, a lot of players that have mythics are good, but I know some stinkers too. It's not hard. It's long and tedious and requires dedication.

It is not hard.

Other games have you complete newer content to get newer weapons. Even games like FFXIV, which do tier you through content to get a relic and then zenith and then whatever the hell glowy version requires you to actually do stuff. The mythic quest involves gathering 30,000 things via level 99 content or gil, spam level 75/99 content, kill level 75 HNMs and then eventually gather some beitetsu. Hardly a task worthy of the best weapons in the game.

I don't think Relic/Mythics should have been taken past 75. Then they shouldn't have been taken past 99. I think they're harmful to the game overall. A lot of this content was clearly designed around vertical scaling, as depressing as that is, and it's incredibly hard to get someone to care about weapons if they have the best ever weapons already.

[Afania]

He said that people would still play content that doesn't reward weapons, but instead rewards gear/accessories/etc. You complain about people misrepresenting your argument when you do it yourself..

I didn't misrepresent his argument, and I understand what he said just fine. I just don't find it'd work in future update. The content still has to include weapon for those without mythic, on the other hand most ppl wouldn't be interested in the content because they have mythics. That's reason why legion was unpopular, because half of the weapons from legion was inferior to empy, and most endgame player has empy. And yet SE still has to implement weapons as reward in new content.

You can't rely on armor/accessory for future update only.

As for this argument, it's honestly too long and I don't care enough to put my eggs in either basket. I'll never get a mythic. I don't play frequently or maintain the necessary amount of self control to do the events every day. But I think it's incredibly erroneous to compare the acquisition of a Relic or Mythic to other content in other MMOs. Don't pretend all players that have a mythic are good, a lot of players that have mythics are good, but I know some stinkers too. It's not hard. It's long and tedious and requires dedication.

Why do you(and Mrkillface) bring up this "hard" argument in mythic over and over again. I'm not talking about difficulty, I don't care about the difficulty, I only care about longevity. If you want to talk about difficulty, killing trash mobs in Ein is as easy as killing NMs in tree, I don't think that's even relevant in this discussion.....unless you're very eager to find an excuse not to do it.

It is not hard.
Other games have you complete newer content to get newer weapons. Even games like FFXIV, which do tier you through content to get a relic and then zenith and then whatever the hell glowy version requires you to actually do stuff.

Do lol Fate with a weapon equipped for KI you mean.

I don't think Relic/Mythics should have been taken past 75. Then they shouldn't have been taken past 99.

I'm not sure about the above statement tbh, I have a mixed feeling toward the existence of RME, I'd like to explain why though, since I'm not sure if you're around during 75 era.

Old Relic/mythics used to take a LOT more effort to obtain than current mythic, and designed as some sort of "ultimate weapon" that takes years to obtain. When SE released empy after Abyssea expansion, those weapons were outclassed by empy, AND 10x harder to obtain. So the old relic owners Q.Q on the forum about their weapon being outclassed by an easier option. Because it wasn't fair for them to spend more time and effort and ended up with an inferior weapon. So SE buffed relic and mythic past 75.

As the time goes on, Mythic and relics became a lot easier to obtain so more ppl have them, as SE move on to ilv119, they have to adjust RME to 119 as well or else it wouldn't be fair for them as well.

If RME never exist, then it wouldn't be an issue at all. Since SE already created RME to be a time consuming long term goal so it's only logical for it to stay relevant forever. There are only 2 options for legendary weapons: 1) Don't put weapons like this in game at all 2) Keep it relevant forever. You can't leavet at 75 or 99, RME didn't get an update after SoA release is the reason why this game lost half of the sub in 2013.

IMO, having RME in FFXI is one of the more unique aspect of FFXI. Instead of spend some time to grind a weapon you'd need to toss next update, there's another type of weapon that's always the best as ilv go up, a virtual weapon with emotional attachment and personality.

I don't think I'm an expert in game design, I just play the games and analyze them based on the facts, what makes them successful and what makes them fail.

Every MMO is built upon "not everyone can have every item", fact. Raid based MMO's like that, Diablo's like that, F2P's like that.

FFXI lost sub when RME didn't get an update......fact as well.

[FrankReynolds]

I didn't misrepresent his argument, and I understand what he said just fine. I just don't find it'd work in future update. The content still has to include weapon for those without mythic, on the other hand most ppl wouldn't be interested in the content because they have mythics. That's reason why legion was unpopular, because half of the weapons from legion was inferior to empy, and most endgame player has empy. And yet SE still has to implement weapons as reward in new content.

You can't rely on armor/accessory for future update only.



Why do you(and Mrkillface) bring up this "hard" argument in mythic over and over again. I'm not talking about difficulty, I don't care about the difficulty, I only care about longevity. If you want to talk about difficulty, killing trash mobs in Ein is as easy as killing NMs in tree, I don't think that's even relevant in this discussion.....unless you're very eager to find an excuse not to do it.

You are misrepresenting both my argument and the one above. Not sure if on purpose or accident.

I'm not sure about the above statement tbh, I have a mixed feeling toward the existence of RME, I'd like to explain why though, since I'm not sure if you're around during 75 era.

Old Relic/mythics used to take a LOT more effort to obtain than current mythic, and designed as some sort of "ultimate weapon" that takes years to obtain. When SE released empy after Abyssea expansion, those weapons were outclassed by empy, AND 10x harder to obtain. So the old relic owners Q.Q on the forum about their weapon being outclassed by an easier option. Because it wasn't fair for them to spend more time and effort and ended up with an inferior weapon. So SE buffed relic and mythic past 75.

As the time goes on, Mythic and relics became a lot easier to obtain so more ppl have them, as SE move on to ilv119, they have to adjust RME to 119 as well or else it wouldn't be fair for them as well.

If RME never exist, then it wouldn't be an issue at all. Since SE already created RME to be a time consuming long term goal so it's only logical for it to stay relevant forever. There are only 2 options for legendary weapons: 1) Don't put weapons like this in game at all 2) Keep it relevant forever. You can't leavet at 75 or 99, RME didn't get an update after SoA release is the reason why this game lost half of the sub in 2013.

IMO, having RME in FFXI is one of the more unique aspect of FFXI. Instead of spend some time to grind a weapon you'd need to toss next update, there's another type of weapon that's always the best as ilv go up, a virtual weapon with emotional attachment and personality.

I don't think I'm an expert in game design, I just play the games and analyze them based on the facts, what makes them successful and what makes them fail.

Every MMO is built upon "not everyone can have every item", fact. Raid based MMO's like that, Diablo's like that, F2P's like that.

FFXI lost sub when RME didn't get an update......fact as well.

Solution: make the weapons less relevant and easier to obtain, shift focus to other gear slots.

[Afania]

Solution: make the weapons less relevant and easier to obtain, shift focus to other gear slots.

We have enough "irrelevant and easy to obtain" weapons in this game, we don't need more.