"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Lithera]

This may be a strange point of view coming from an average player, but I think the game would have been better served had Relics, Empyreans, and Mythics been made MORE difficult to the point that they truly would be a rarity. That way content would never have been developed with their existence in mind, and people wouldn't feel they absolutely had to have one just to play certain jobs. Sure there would be some linkshells and groups that still demanded them, but they'd no longer be the norm. But, like SE, I could be vastly underestimating the jerkass nature and unrealistic expectations of the community at large.

The only problem though is SE made some of the mythics at least be the best weapon for a select few jobs. So the min/maxers will still call you gimped even if you have the best for said job in all but weapon because you don't have one. Also, yes you are underestimating the jerkass and unrealistic expectations of the community.

[Lithera]

Unfortunately, there isn't much more to say about the OPs topic. We've gotten a couple more 'I checked; there's no plans.' Some attempts at some more indepth answers. There's not anything to say about it, and if it weren't in this thread it'd just be in another.

Oh I know, but at least those threads normally started talking about something closely related to mythics. This thread tried to become a comic relief thread about the many ways the dev can say they have no plans. Yes I have already slapped my self for replying to Camiie's post.

[Afania]

This may be a strange point of view coming from an average player, but I think the game would have been better served had Relics, Empyreans, and Mythics been made MORE difficult to the point that they truly would be a rarity. That way content would never have been developed with their existence in mind, and people wouldn't feel they absolutely had to have one just to play certain jobs. Sure there would be some linkshells and groups that still demanded them, but they'd no longer be the norm. But, like SE, I could be vastly underestimating the jerkass nature and unrealistic expectations of the community at large.

This isn't strange POV at all, this is the reason why RME became a requirement to play the job before SoA. We already went through the era that everyone own a legendary, it's a proven fact that it made the game unplayable for ppl without one. Been saying that 5 pages ago.

The only problem though is SE made some of the mythics at least be the best weapon for a select few jobs. So the min/maxers will still call you gimped even if you have the best for said job in all but weapon because you don't have one. Also, yes you are underestimating the jerkass and unrealistic expectations of the community.

Real min/maxers are truly minority in this game, even less than mythic owners. Why do you care what they say? Personally I've never meet any real min/maxers in my life.

[Camiie]

The only problem though is SE made some of the mythics at least be the best weapon for a select few jobs. So the min/maxers will still call you gimped even if you have the best for said job in all but weapon because you don't have one. Also, yes you are underestimating the jerkass and unrealistic expectations of the community.

I guess in my (final) fantasy world if, say Ochain and Daurdabla, really were unobtainable by 99.99% of the player base then there would have had to be more viable alternatives to allow players to get stuff done. I realize that's starting to sort of happen now, but there was a long time where there really was no perceived second best in slot.

[detlef]

Putting rewards that 100% of your customers want in content that only 10% of your customers are entertained by enough and / or have time to actually do is pretty bad design. The reason is incredibly obvious. I agree. It really shouldn't take 5 pages to figure it out.

I tend to agree with a lot of your posts on these forums. But you keep arguing that:

A. The weapons are not strong enough to be worth the effort.
B. The effort is too great.
C. The grind is too boring.

Maybe you have another point that I missed. To address the strength of the weapons, Burtgang, Yagrush, Carnwenhan, and Nirvana provide incredibly unique and powerful attributes that will probably make them useable forever. Kogarasumaru, Ryunohige, Conquerer, Glanzfaust, and Kenkonken are all best in slot DD weapons. Laevateinn and Tupsimati are best in slot nuking and macc staves. I don't know where Liberator, Terpsichore, Tizona, Vajra, and Aymur stand in terms of DD potential but at least half of them are likely best in slot DD weapons, again with unique bonuses you can only find on here.

These are true ultimate weapons. Unique models (this matters to a lot of people, and there's nothing wrong with that), powerful performance. And I've already acknowledged that at some point they will be surpassed but the devs have assured us that they will allow them to be upgraded as the ilvl cap increases. The upgrade process might be easy. It might be so hard you piss blood. But if it's too annoying or difficult, the JPs will complain and they'll bring it back down. So I don't think it's worth worrying about.

Maybe that's not enough for you. But I'm reminded of your posts in the Alluvian Skirmish thread.

I don't care if it's instant gratification. I just want it to be guaranteed gratification. It doesn't have to take a day or two, but lets be realistic. If it's probably gonna get outclassed by something else in a month or two, it shouldn't cost a butt load of money and or time. Making an event take 3 hours and you're done or making an event where you do it forever and never get what you want are not the only options for keeping people interested.

Let's be honest here. Those 8~ million worth of stones you spent are probably gonna be wasted when they release the +1 version that wipes all your augments in September.

You know what Mythics are? Guaranteed gratification that aren't going to be outclassed permanently by a +1 version in September.

I have much less to say about the magnitude and fun of the grind. I maintain that just like anyone can cook, anyone can make a Mythic. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of time it takes is a drop in the bucket, a mere fraction of the time you've spent playing FFXI. Demonjustin estimated 4-6 months. What's 4-6 months if you've played for 8 years?

The tasks can all be accomplished with a PT or less, which means that you can progress casually, at your own pace. Sure, Einherjar, Salvage, Nyzul, and Assaults are all easy. But that means that anybody of any level can make progress. No gear check whatsoever. You can come back from a 5-year break, equip yourself in sparks gear, and make a Mythic if you want. As casually as you want.

[FrankReynolds]

I tend to agree with a lot of your posts on these forums. But you keep arguing that:

A. The weapons are not strong enough to be worth the effort.
B. The effort is too great.
C. The grind is too boring.

Maybe you have another point that I missed. To address the strength of the weapons, Burtgang, Yagrush, Carnwenhan, and Nirvana provide incredibly unique and powerful attributes that will probably make them useable forever. Kogarasumaru, Ryunohige, Conquerer, Glanzfaust, and Kenkonken are all best in slot DD weapons. Laevateinn and Tupsimati are best in slot nuking and macc staves. I don't know where Liberator, Terpsichore, Tizona, Vajra, and Aymur stand in terms of DD potential but at least half of them are likely best in slot DD weapons, again with unique bonuses you can only find on here.

These are true ultimate weapons. Unique models (this matters to a lot of people, and there's nothing wrong with that), powerful performance. And I've already acknowledged that at some point they will be surpassed but the devs have assured us that they will allow them to be upgraded as the ilvl cap increases. The upgrade process might be easy. It might be so hard you piss blood. But if it's too annoying or difficult, the JPs will complain and they'll bring it back down. So I don't think it's worth worrying about.

Being upgraded does not = staying best in class. You could very easily see a dagger from new content that gives +60% song duration and Carnwenhan only getting bumped up to 55%. They said they would be brought up to current iLevel. Not that they would be the best in class. This is SE we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they changed the pecking order of best in class RME weapons just to make you go build something else for the jobs you already built mythics for, or just made the weapons from new content slightly better.

Maybe that's not enough for you. But I'm reminded of your posts in the Alluvian Skirmish thread.

It's not. I can already beat everything without them. Carn is the only one that interests me at all really, because that duration makes the job way easier to play. If there was something in the game that you just had to have one of these to have a reasonable hope of winning, maybe. But like cammie said. They shouldn't be designing content around these and apparently they have stopped doing so.

You know what Mythics are? Guaranteed gratification that aren't going to be outclassed permanently by a +1 version in September.

They guaranteed they would be updated. I didn't see anything saying they would all be the best forever. You never know what SE is gonna do. Even if the weapons stay best stat wise, they could do something dumb like give an ability that caps song duration without carn, or a new slew of OAT weapons that beat them or change ws properties in a way that makes them suck.

I have much less to say about the magnitude and fun of the grind. I maintain that just like anyone can cook, anyone can make a Mythic. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of time it takes is a drop in the bucket, a mere fraction of the time you've spent playing FFXI. Demonjustin estimated 4-6 months. What's 4-6 months if you've played for 8 years?

Incidentally, I was a chef for 12 years. A lot of people cannot cook. :P

The tasks can all be accomplished with a PT or less, which means that you can progress casually, at your own pace. Sure, Einherjar, Salvage, Nyzul, and Assaults are all easy. But that means that anybody of any level can make progress. No gear check whatsoever. You can come back from a 5-year break, equip yourself in sparks gear, and make a Mythic if you want. As casually as you want.

Everything is easy until it's not. The whole game is easy if you put it that way. Being easy and being something that people want to pay money every month to do are not even remotely the same thing though.

[FrankReynolds]

Except you don't HAVE an argument, that's why you need a new one. You're asking for a change, a change(no exclusive items) that's different direction from other MMO on the market, thus you should tell us why a change can increase the profit of this game.

I'm talking about taking something that takes 6 months and making it take slightly less. I don't know what you're talking about, but you go with your bad self.

If you want to argue that easy mythic would result a increase sub number in a short amount of time, maybe I'd agree with you. WoW is correct that some ppl may sub a bit longer just to build one.

What about after he's done in 1 month? What about after 3 years? When 50% of the players own 10 mythics, what is THEIR motivation to keep playing?

If I'm not going to build a mythic I guess I have to quit right? I mean Technically I am finished with all mythics I could ever want because I never intend to build one. Now what? I have all the mythics I will ever want. How have you solved my problem?

Further more, that means any future content added into the game would not offer enough reward for ppl to do it.

Says who? You? Did you decide that the weapon slot was the only thing that would ever matter in the game for the rest of it's duration? Are you head developer? Are you canceling development of all new armor, merit categories, job points? Spells, abilities etc?

Tell me now so I don't waste all week stock piling job points and earning gil for nothing.

If 10% of the players own mythic, 90% of the players would still want to do new content for a good weapon. Those 10% mythic owners may also do new content for jobs they don't have mythic.

According to you they can't. It's mythic or quit. They already have all the things and nothing left to live for but mythics.

If 50% of the players own 20 mythics, when next tier of content is out, only 50% of ppl would do the new content, rest of the playerbase would just sit in town complaining about how boring this game is because gears from the new content don't beat their mythic........

And they quit.

Because again, you are head developer and you have cancelled all updates not pertaining to the weapon slot. Got it.

If you look at this from a bigger picture, not how sub goes after 3 months, but how sub goes after 3+ years, it'd hurt the game in the long run.

Only if you disable everything but the weapon slot and make everything not a mythic suck too bad to beat anything.

You can keep twisting my motivation over and over again, but it's not an argument that can make the game better, it only make you feel like winning an internet argument.

I won the argument a long time ago. I just want to see what crazy stuff you'll say at this point.

Except that's not how MMO works. MMO is about having exclusive items for different tiers of players, every other titles have been doing that for past 15 years...you aren't getting the best items in other MMO without beating the highest tier raid as well. It shouldn't take 5 pages nor a masters in game design to know that following the winning formula established in the industry is the best direction.

You don't even know what the industry standard is. You are again pretending to be an authority on something you know nothing about.

[Afania]

Stuff that mostly makes 0 sense blah blah

At this point of time I don't even know what you want to argue about anymore except faster mythics, I read every word you said and I couldn't understand what you're really trying to say, lol.

However, about your opinion on "ppl still gonna play the content without weapon slot!", look at alluvion skirmish, it's dead because of RME/delve weapons. You don't need to be the authority of the industry to see how other titles work.

[Balloon]

At this point of time I don't even know what you want to argue about anymore, I read every word you said and I couldn't understand what you're really trying to say, lol.

However, about your opinion on "ppl still gonna play the content without weapon slot!", look at alluvion skirmish, it's dead because of RME/delve weapons

He said that people would still play content that doesn't reward weapons, but instead rewards gear/accessories/etc. You complain about people misrepresenting your argument when you do it yourself..

Are you canceling development of all new armor, merit categories, job points? Spells, abilities etc?

Tell me now so I don't waste all week stock piling job points and earning gil for nothing.

You also did it with the whole 6 year thing and have done it to me in previous threads. I'm not sure if you do it on purpose... I'm sure you think you know more about Game Design though, when in reality you're postulating on the exact same things we are with the exact same information we have.

As for this argument, it's honestly too long and I don't care enough to put my eggs in either basket. I'll never get a mythic. I don't play frequently or maintain the necessary amount of self control to do the events every day. But I think it's incredibly erroneous to compare the acquisition of a Relic or Mythic to other content in other MMOs. Don't pretend all players that have a mythic are good, a lot of players that have mythics are good, but I know some stinkers too. It's not hard. It's long and tedious and requires dedication.

It is not hard.

Other games have you complete newer content to get newer weapons. Even games like FFXIV, which do tier you through content to get a relic and then zenith and then whatever the hell glowy version requires you to actually do stuff. The mythic quest involves gathering 30,000 things via level 99 content or gil, spam level 75/99 content, kill level 75 HNMs and then eventually gather some beitetsu. Hardly a task worthy of the best weapons in the game.

I don't think Relic/Mythics should have been taken past 75. Then they shouldn't have been taken past 99. I think they're harmful to the game overall. A lot of this content was clearly designed around vertical scaling, as depressing as that is, and it's incredibly hard to get someone to care about weapons if they have the best ever weapons already.

[detlef]

Being upgraded does not = staying best in class. You could very easily see a dagger from new content that gives +60% song duration and Carnwenhan only getting bumped up to 55%. They said they would be brought up to current iLevel. Not that they would be the best in class. This is SE we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they changed the pecking order of best in class RME weapons just to make you go build something else for the jobs you already built mythics for, or just made the weapons from new content slightly better.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if Legato Dagger were better than it is. If the ilvl 109 option only adds 5% duration, it's hard to imagine the devs introducing another higher ilvl weapon that competes with Mythic for song duration.

It's not. I can already beat everything without them. Carn is the only one that interests me at all really, because that duration makes the job way easier to play. If there was something in the game that you just had to have one of these to have a reasonable hope of winning, maybe. But like cammie said. They shouldn't be designing content around these and apparently they have stopped doing so.

Yes, I agree that content should not be designed around some significant portion of the population owning Mythic weapons. I also agree that you don't need them to win anything.

They guaranteed they would be updated. I didn't see anything saying they would all be the best forever. You never know what SE is gonna do. Even if the weapons stay best stat wise, they could do something dumb like give an ability that caps song duration without carn, or a new slew of OAT weapons that beat them or change ws properties in a way that makes them suck.

I did say that Mythics are "guaranteed gratification that aren't going to be outclassed permanently." I've already acknowledged that there will be times in the future where some Mythics may be temporarily shelved in favor of newer weapons. But the duration of that time is entirely up to the player. We don't know how hard the upgrade process will be but people push through it.

Incidentally, I was a chef for 12 years. A lot of people cannot cook. :P

Everything is easy until it's not. The whole game is easy if you put it that way. Being easy and being something that people want to pay money every month to do are not even remotely the same thing though.

I don't think you really addressed my points with these responses. Anyone can make a Mythic. It's not fun for everybody, and the process may only be appreciated by old school grinders. But it's entirely possible for anybody to do if they really want it. I just don't think people really sit down and map out the necessary effort. If they did, they would see that yes, it may be a long process but if you've played the game for 8 years, what's another half year?

Also, like you said, you don't need them to beat any content in the game. So if they are completely unneeded to win but also possible for anybody to make then what's wrong with things the way they are?