WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

[Hiroshiko]

I'm pretty sure most of the posters understand where the OP is coming from. It's obvious that WHM doesn't have any form of "natural" MP restoration/conversation like the other mages jobs and has been given the lowest tier of Clear Mind. However, there is no clear cut answer to the "why" question that we as the playerbase can give. Especially not one that will please the OP given his criteria. Over the years, the development team has made a lot of arbitrary decisions that don't make sense to the playerbase. But we adapt strategies from what we have at our disposal.

Several posters have come forward and offered their input on the issue. Not everyone has adhered to the OPs strict conditions, and they have brought up good points. "Naturally," WHM has a B+ in club skill (which is the 2nd highest of all jobs with club skill.) Yes, I know that requires gear and that it's not a very practical form of MP restoration, but it is still a tool nonetheless. Just like Aspir is a tool despite not having a use on a large amount of mobs. However, I agree that it really makes no sense that WHM has next to nothing outside of melee and lower tier Clear Mind.

The point many have tried to make though is that this isn't as much of a problem inside or outside of Abyssea nowadays because we do have subjobs, gear, and everything else that the OP has chosen to negate as part of his argument. You even listed jobs that wouldn't have a use for MP restoration (i.e. BRD and COR) outside of their main function of being support jobs or to power their subjobs. I know Wolfe only mentioned them as a means for an argument that WHM has nothing, but I honestly don't see the problem with that specific scenario. It really just shows that we have options to overcome this design flaw (if you can call it that.) And anyways as Alkimi pointed out, even if we had an Auto-Refresh trait, would we really be that much better off? Or would it just placate you since we'd have something? Other than a definitive answer that nobody but the design team can adequately answer, what is it that you want that we can't get from subjobs, gear, etc.?

I wouldn't shun a trait or something that provides WHM with its own form of MP restoration/conservation. Something (anything...) would be nice, but really just icing on the cake at this point. From that point, I understand the argument Wolfe is trying to make. What I don't see is why this thread is so hostile to people who "aren't reading" (agreeing with the OP) when honestly the conditions that are set for argument purposes ignore large aspects of how the game functions. You can't ignore tools that exist in the game because they ultimately attribute to balance.

TL; DR: Everyone knows WHM has no "natural" MP restoration/conservation, but there is no easily answer as to "why" that we can give. However, the hostile responses to people's opinion about the necessity, or lack there of, in today's game for a natural trait/spell/etc. considering what we have with what's implemented in the game already is unnecessary.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They have the same clear mind V as SCH, BLM and SMN, as it stands their is no higher tier.

--

Part of this game has always been about subjob choice, and as it stands WHM has only two choices.

RDM - Convert and Refresh
SCH - Sublimation, Penury and Conserve MP

Both of which make up for any negative WHM may have on the MP Restore front.

[Hioki]

Don't need it.

Discussion over.

[Gael]

Don't need it.

Discussion over.

I dont think there is more to say :P

[Karumac]

Stand next to the BRD.

[Lithera]

I wish whm had a refresh that did not depend on gear, sub job, or the need to endanger ones self. Outside of abyssea there is the whm maat fight, all dream land dynamis zones before you kill the mobs or click the ???, and if you are new to the game and have not yet unlocked the ability to have a sub job. Also until you are 90 you have to depend on /sch as a sub, a Brd, smn, cor, or Rdm to be in your party. Then there is food but even yag drinks can fail you at times. Only what lv 82 onward does /Rdm become a subjob option for refresh. Only time I have a Brd is during limbus in<3 you Deezma! In dynamis, which yes I still do I rarely if ever got refreshed by the Rdm in my party. Hell there were times when I would be lucky enough to have a Rdm in my party. Also not everyone has a Kclub and I doubt I will ever get one due to the friends I have being to busy with getting things for their selves or dragging me along on whm so they can get stuff.

Yes my gear might be Lolable but I blame that on having ninja having been my one love for a long time so I don't have somethings other whm do to help with mp conservation and other aspects of the job. Along with not having much luck in the generating money to spend on the top of the line stuff for whm.

[annewandering]

I agree that throughout the years the main issue with WHM was its lack of MP conservation/restoration tools compared to the other mages. I never understood why WHM had the lowest Clear Mind trait of all the mages but had no form of MP restoration. Our potency makes up for a bit of that (“why cast 2 Cure IVs when you can cast Cure V once?” kind of deal), but overall we really had nothing naturally. However, with the introduction of /SCH, the ability to sub RDM (I still prefer /SCH but to each his/her own), and, in Abyssea, Refresh atma, some of our MP issues are becoming less severe. Would I like to see some form of natural MP conservation/restoration tool? Sure, but I don't think it would need to be anything drastic. Maybe a decent Conserve MP trait tacked on at a lower level, or a trait similar to the Orison Pantaloons +1/2 that stacked? Even something like a light-based Aspir that actually works on more than a handful of mobs would be nice. Drains a monster’s HP and converts it to our MP? I don't know. I'll leave that to someone creative.

Also, Cure II isn't as terrible as its predecessor. While it's still not great and I still don't use it as much as Curaga, it does come in handy for some older content mobs (Salvage gears mainly and maybe Cactuar) where I can sit in range of a moderate AoE and actually heal more than I was damaged for (unlike Cura which usually couldn't keep up). However, it is still a slap in the face for larger fights. Cure VI on the other hand is a nightmare. Like the OP said, the ratio of Cure/MP is terrible and is even worse outside of Abyssea when people aren't taking ridiculous amounts of damage. It’s a nice alternative if Cure V is down and someone really needs it.

Overall though, WHM is doing a lot better than it was in the older days. Afflatus Solace/Misery, Esuna, Sacrifice, etc. were nice starts and we have gotten other decent additions (especially inside Abyssea). However, a few tweaks here and there would still be appreciated.

Recently in abyssea I have found that cura 2 can be quite useful. I can cure up party from an aoe quickly, getting them out of immediate danger if not all the way to full heal and get back to the tanks. Sure I could use a curaga but cura 2 just seems to do a good fast job.

[Septimus]

I wish whm had a refresh that did not depend on gear, sub job, or the need to endanger ones self. Outside of abyssea there is the whm maat fight, all dream land dynamis zones before you kill the mobs or click the ???, and if you are new to the game and have not yet unlocked the ability to have a sub job. Also until you are 90 you have to depend on /sch as a sub, a Brd, smn, cor, or Rdm to be in your party. Then there is food but even yag drinks can fail you at times. Only what lv 82 onward does /Rdm become a subjob option for refresh. Only time I have a Brd is during limbus in<3 you Deezma! In dynamis, which yes I still do I rarely if ever got refreshed by the Rdm in my party. Hell there were times when I would be lucky enough to have a Rdm in my party. Also not everyone has a Kclub and I doubt I will ever get one due to the friends I have being to busy with getting things for their selves or dragging me along on whm so they can get stuff.

Yes my gear might be Lolable but I blame that on having ninja having been my one love for a long time so I don't have somethings other whm do to help with mp conservation and other aspects of the job. Along with not having much luck in the generating money to spend on the top of the line stuff for whm.

The whole point of the lack of support job in the Maat fight and CoP Dynamis is that it is designed to be a hardship. If you didn't need anything from your support job then there would be no purpose to bother to take it from you. For example, Bards are not able to cure anyone when they are unable to access a support job. Does that mean that they should get native Cure and status removal spells? Paladin do not have Provoke and Defender or Utsusemi without a support job. Does that mean that they should get native Provoke, Defender, and Utsusemi? According to the "logic"™ of this thread, they obviously should.

[Vortex]

He's right. they don't need it, if you havn't noticed, every single reasonable armor WHM can wear has refresh on it..
in fact Af3+2 body has a 2 tick refresh, which is only useful for idling and barspells
compared to other mage jobs, WHm dosn't just empty thier Mp pool like that.

[Kaych]

Allow me to break this down into nice little categories for everyone.

Cura II
As if the first spell didn't suck enough already, now you add in Cura II. Wouldn't have been too bad of a spell if you could target people outside of your party, then it would ALMOST make sense to have it. All Cura is, is an under powered Curaga. And no, it does not matter if Afflatus Misery is up or not, the spell still sucks. Being able to cure 100+ HP, ONLY if you have sustained sufficient damage and ONLY to yourself makes it stupid. Guess what? White Mages are NOT supposed to sustain damage. Hence why there is enmity down armor. Curaga may take up a little bit more MP, but the amount of HP recovered is more stable and reliable than Cura AND you can cast it on other people instead of having to run down to the DD's and put yourself in harms way. Which ALSO makes Cura useless because in a pinch, I am going to throw out a Curaga spell first (especially to wake other sleeping teammates!), that way I do not have to worry about accidentally moving and interrupting my spell casting (which seldom happens for me, but happens quote often if you are not used to playing the job). I am a seasoned White Mage, I have been playing it for 6+ years. Cura is a joke. Care to guess what that makes Cura II?

What to Give White Mages
How about Reviviscence? WHM are already the kings of "ga" spells, right? Why not Stoneskinga, Aquaveilga, Blinkga, give some power back to and potency back to WHM? Hastega? Hey, you already gave it to Garuda, why not give it to a WHM so that it can NOT suck horribly? If a BLU uses Diffusion, they can cast an AOE Haste that is MUCH more potent than a WHM Haste (something else that now sucks). Clear Mind V at a lower level? Since they have NO refresh ability, they should have the highest Clear Mind in the game. Ooh, how about Clear Mind VI? No, that would make too much sense. Can't have that now, can we? Then people might actually think you care about your fans and don't want to royally screw over WHM, like you have been doing for years. I'll be the first person to admit it, I'm biased towards WHM. But come on, Cure VI is crap (its less efficient than Cure II). Cura I & II are a slap in the face of WHM everywhere. The only good thing you have done for WHM since I have been playing is Afflatus Solace. Misery is useless unless you are soloing/DD'ing and pop up Auspice for Light damage to try and make your lolddwhm less of a joke. Oh man, give a WHM Razed Ruins and let them Hexa Strike and it can out parse Randgrith 1,000 times over.

I have been playing WHM for over 5 years. I didnt bother going through all the 10 pages to see if anyone has said this, but...

What I dont agree with:

Afflatus Misery is not worthless>_> Obviusly you dont mele in EXP partys. I do, always. (Yes even outside Abyssea) The only time I dont mele is when we take NMs. Thats what Solice and Sacrifice is for. So, if you learn how to mele, you will see how Cura's are good. Its very MP-saving, along with Esuna. Cura was designed for meleing, so that when you get hit by a AoE WS or magic, the potency gets better. The Auspice helps you hit the mob and Mystic Boon gives you MP back.

If you dont like to mele thats fine, but dont tell me who has done it for years that its "useless". My party is always the last one to die in Events (if they die at all), and they all get Haste, Cures etc. If you are scared of getting slept by a mob, go /SCH for Sublimation.

So there you have it. Cura, Misery and Auspice is not useless, and we have a couple of "give-MP-back" Abilitys. Starlight, Moonlight, Mystic Boon, Dagan for club and Spirit Taker for Staff^_- Boon is my favorite, but I havent gotten Dagan yet so Iunno if thats good.

If people dont want you to mele, /ignore them. As long as u keep theyr HP up and give haste, they have nothing to say.

So here is what I agree on.

Hastega, yes please

I have no idea why we havent gotten this yet. This would make things alot easyer. Either that or make Haste last much longer. I think both WHMs and RDMs should get Hastega. I was VERY dissapointed when I found out that SCHs Accension ability dont work on ALL healing and Enhanching spells like it says in the description: "Extends the effect of your next healing or enhancing white magic spell to party members within range. " I remember thinking that FINALLY! we get to use hastega now. Since the lvl cap was lvl 75 when SCH came out, only WHMs and RDMs could benefited from Accension + Haste. It made perfect sence. But noo>_> It should have said "Extends SOME of your Healing and Enhanching effects"...

So I really hope that SE makes this possible the next level cap. Maybe and Augment to Divine Seal or Divine Veil could make AoE Enhanching magic. Perhaps even lowering the recast of Divine Seal to 5 minutes. Just a thought^_-