This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Vasch]

Done 12 Yumcax so far (Every fight for him that has started on my server) and have only seen the neck and hands drop. I have also had capped bayld from all of these fights.

[Daemon]

2 things:

1) WKR would still take longer and require more participation than delve to earn that 20k plasm (first do multiple skirmish/reives, then participate enough to cap out exp/bayl in wkr).

Not really Frank. I'm not disagreeing that something needs to be done. I just think Plasm should be left alone for Delve and something else be added to WR. If anyone can join at any % of the fight doesn't mean people are going to spend all day just to wait for the boss to die and earn 20k Plasm.

You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

I even got to Hurkan at 30% HP and it died in less than 15 minutes. That only tells me others could do the same. People that should be focusing on earning Delve Gear/Weapons and maxing those ranks should be doing Delve, not show up to WR.

2) Matsui's response was pretty much blowing that guy off. He basically said "Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I'm not listening to your complaints. It just means I don't care what you think...".

Imagine how unproductive these forums would be (as if they aren't bad enough) if we just ignored differing opinions instead of actually debating with each other. They might as well take away the thread function and make every post a single thread that cannot be responded to like a static website with un-editable pages.

I still think he has proven to us in the last 2 updates that he is trying to make things better. I mean even his people were angry, not just us.

Well people like me who debates on ideas also shows other people different points of view, gives the OP a free bump to bring the thread back up and keeps the topic going longer

As long as we are being respectful with each other then debates are fun!

[OmnysValefor]

You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

This illustrates how little you understand about WK reives. Plasm, like bayld, would be based on participation and you can only participate so much in such a short amount of HP. You wouldn't cap, you wouldn't even come close, especially if the battle was brimming with players. You'd be lucky to get there in time at all. Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

[detlef]

You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

I even got to Hurkan at 30% HP and it died in less than 15 minutes. That only tells me others could do the same. People that should be focusing on earning Delve Gear/Weapons and maxing those ranks should be doing Delve, not show up to WR.

Both of those situations are highly, ridiculously idealized. If I had been able to join every one of my Wildskeeper wins in-progress while the fight was going smoothly and quickly I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread.

[Daemon]

This illustrates how little you understand about WK reives. Plasm, like bayld, would be based on participation and you can only participate so much in such a short amount of HP. You wouldn't cap, you wouldn't even come close, especially if the battle was brimming with players. You'd be lucky to get there in time at all. Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

I know how WoE works. Which yes depending on how much you contribute to the fight. Which is also the same as Colonization Reives. This isn't something new. Which is what you mean by WR.

But then again that's why you see summoner in colonization reives go and spam Garuda heals, Mages in WoE spamming Nukes to get in as much as they can to qualify. But WR is harder and requires much better gear, capped skills than previous content.

The problem is, if no one does Delve anymore because people's interest is directed to WR. Which means all those people who have Delve weapons and STILL need plasm for other gears and weapons for other jobs that their presence to join parties could help those who need delve? What other choice will people coming from Abyssea to Adoulin have other than show up gimp to WR?

You just pointed out the reason why this would separate people further by providing another gap between players.

Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

This comment only tells me this benefit is meant to help high end players succeed better. When I'm saying it won't.

We need people prepared for WR to show up and contribute to the fight, not undergeared players show up and make it harder for those who are ready.

[Daemon]

Both of those situations are highly, ridiculously idealized. If I had been able to join every one of my Wildskeeper wins in-progress while the fight was going smoothly and quickly I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread.

I wouldn't know how your server is but this morning DJ asked me if I wanted to join Yumcax. I saw the shout was 28% HP and in about 3 minutes dropped to 24%. I told him at that rate ill never get there in time and he agreed.

[FrankReynolds]

The problem is, if no one does Delve anymore because people's interest is directed to WR. Which means all those people who have Delve weapons and STILL need plasm for other gears and weapons for other jobs that their presence to join parties could help those who need delve? What other choice will people coming from Abyssea to Adoulin have other than show up gimp to WR?

You can do just fine in the first three with abyssea gear. I got full bayld from my first run on ninja. Currently most delve shouts only want people with delve gear or mage jobs. So a guy on a melee job is gonna get delve gear a lot faster this way and since it caps, the "elite" players don't get any better rewards or plasm. Everyone is pretty much even in that respect. They just get a little more afk time after they hit the cap. Which works out fine because people don't usually start flocking to these until they have been whittled down some and once they do, you don't really want a bunch of uber DDS crushing it before everyone else gets a chance to earn their keep.

You just pointed out the reason why this would separate people further by providing another gap between players.

There is no gap. everyone is illegible for the same plasm / bayld / drops. The only people who get screwed are people who show up late. Which is the case now anyways.

This comment only tells me this benefit is meant to help high end players succeed better. When I'm saying it won't.

We need people prepared for WR to show up and contribute to the fight, not undergeared players show up and make it harder for those who are ready.

I don't really see how anyone with a stack of sushi and a reraise item / spell could be under-geared for the first three and since I'm sure that's where most people would go if they were looking to cap bayld / plasm fast and easy, I don't really see the problem.

EDIT: on a related note, anyone who doesn't have delve gear or a desireable support job is SOL on cerberus anyways. There is literally like 1 shout per day for NQ plasm runs. Everything else is Boss runs looking for 3/4 song bard and stun set scholars.

[OmnysValefor]

The NM probably does need a very geared tank, and a good healer / backup healer / bard / cor ... something.

Beyond that, if people's skills are capped and their gear is decent (I mean, even bayld gear like karieyh, orvail), people can participate and do well, or should be able to if SE would teak the system.

[Daemon]

You can do just fine in the first three with abyssea gear. I got full bayld from my first run on ninja. Currently most delve shouts only want people with delve gear or mage jobs. So a guy on a melee job is gonna get delve gear a lot faster this way and since it caps, the "elite" players don't get any better rewards or plasm. Everyone is pretty much even in that respect. They just get a little more afk time after they hit the cap. Which works out fine because people don't usually start flocking to these until they have been whittled down some and once they do, you don't really want a bunch of uber DDS crushing it before everyone else gets a chance to earn their keep.



There is no gap. everyone is illegible for the same plasm / bayld / drops. The only people who get screwed are people who show up late. Which is the case now anyways.





I don't really see how anyone with a stack of sushi and a reraise item / spell could be under-geared for the first three and since I'm sure that's where most people would go if they were looking to cap bayld / plasm fast and easy, I don't really see the problem.

EDIT: on a related note, anyone who doesn't have delve gear or a desireable support job is SOL on cerberus anyways. There is literally like 1 shout per day for NQ plasm runs. Everything else is Boss runs looking for 3/4 song bard and stun set scholars.

Plasm is the main focus of Delve. Giving that away to WR would take away from Delve. People also relearn how to work as a team dodging or fighting each boss to earn those Kis. I still think giving 20k plasm in WR will direct everyone to WR and kill Delve. As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

People may ask others to have a Delve weapon but not everyone that leads a party will require that from everybody. I still see nice leaders only asking for REM and others who don't have these will show up on another job instead be it Mage class.

Delve parties require specific jobs, WR allows much more freedom to allow people to show up any job they want.

Unless you rather see people skip delve all together and just get Nakuul weapons instead and never have the need to touch Delve first, that's how I see the outcome of this idea. Which means everyone who did spend time earning Delve gear made it effortless to those who never entered Delve to get what you are now killing yourself trying to earn.

[detlef]

As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

Huh. If 3k plasm runs die, nothing of value will be lost. If you're talking about mega boss runs, those will obviously continue to be the best. Even 10k 1-5 runs will be superior to Wildskeeper if time is a factor.