On Red Mage melee...

[rog]

Well, I meant without the playerbase at large blowing a gasket over it. If the WoE changes they're supposedly implementing turn out to be any good, I'll likely build a Badelaire +2 as-is (I do have every job that can use it, after all), but I can guarantee you people will still complain if I use it on RDM (but would be fine with me standing there doing literally nothing).

That's why you ignore the playerbase, and do what is most productive, regardless of complaints.

[Duelle]

That's why you ignore the playerbase, and do what is most productive, regardless of complaints.

While at the same time doing nothing to change what people expect of us.

[Aliekber]

That's why you ignore the playerbase, and do what is most productive, regardless of complaints.

Fair enough.

[Mirage]

I f you want to make the playerbase fine with it, you'd have to make rdm close to what the best non-2handed job in the game can do

[rog]

While at the same time doing nothing to change what people expect of us.

I don't think that's really a problem. We certainly won't be invited to melee, so what's wrong with being expected to heal/haste/whatever in between swings?

[Aliekber]

I f you want to make the playerbase fine with it, you'd have to make rdm close to what the best non-2handed job in the game can do

Either that or give them some non-damage-related utility for being up front (think THF's TH3 enhancements). It's basically wishful thinking at this point, though.

[Duelle]

I f you want to make the playerbase fine with it, you'd have to make rdm close to what the best non-2handed job in the game can do

Not really. At the simplest, most basic level it requires adjustments to composure, enspells and access to more weapon skills. None of that will have us wiping the floor with the other DDs.

Another thing to consider is that people are attached to the expectation for heals, refresh and haste because in part they're desperate for those. Desperation and the lack of healing classes in this game had a hand in our being shackled to the back row. That being said, I'm of the opinion the community needs to be weaned off cure/refresh/haste to allow us to start taking up more roles should be choose to. Again, we as players are not enough to bring about such a change, hence why I call on the developers to do something about it.

We're also heavily disadvantaged in terms of gear because while people are capping haste and accuracy with a couple of pieces and thus are able to focus more on attack, double/triple attack and other goodies, we still have to scrape everything we can together just to reach haste cap. We're limited on what we can use to boost accuracy, and that doesn't cover some of the other stats melee value that they have a much easier time getting. It'd be one thing if we were on stuff like Twilight Belt, Epona's Ring, the pink light DD set and so on, but we are not on any of those. Our only sword outside of magians is a sword that drops from a zone boss everyone hates doing. Our "best" gear set is now several echelons below what everyone else can get.

[rog]

Not really. At the simplest, most basic level it requires adjustments to composure, enspells and access to more weapon skills. None of that will have us wiping the floor with the other DDs.

yeah, i doubt that. People don't change their minds of the nonsense they've believed for years easily.

[Mirage]

to be more specific, I think RDM could probably get a melee boost, but that unless they're close to a "real" melee, the rdm is still considered a wasted party spot because a melee could have taken their place and you'd get a party that gets more exp/hour. I'm also saying that even if this is just a very slight decrease in exp/h, the player base is simply not going to be cool with it.

and if they do get a melee boost that will let them melee and backup-heal or whatever other backup duties they could do, while still lettign the party get the same exp/hour as if he was on heal/support duty only, we're going to get a lot of mad melees who want their jobs to be able to solo lv95 NMs.

[wildsprite]

yeah, i doubt that. People don't change their minds of the nonsense they've believed for years easily.

yeah I have high doubts the people who have decided RDM shouldnt melee will ever change their minds,
people forget things like the en spells don't give mobs TP either, so I see less RDMs actually use them when they should, killing the mob faster while feeding it less TP is nice