Empyrean weapon needed adjustments

[Cream_Soda]

Yeah a nice nerf for them would indeed be awsome. I'd say lets reduce the odd aftermath to 100tp = 10% 200tp 12.5% 300tp 15%

Not really. 100 tp = 10%? Triple procs are 5% on mandau, spharai, etc, which is the same as getting double damage 10% of the time and no ws is required for that and it's all the time, not for a limited amount of time.

[Cream_Soda]

I do not understand what you want emp weapons to do, it is too vague.

can you be more detail? what weapons you expect to be booted and how?

Well in general, Byrth summed it up pretty nicely

Currently 2H Empyreans get the same ODD% as 1H Empyreans, though ODD can proc on all of their swings compared to 50% of a dual wielded empyrean's swings. Monk counts as a 1H Empyrean in this case, as ODD can only proc on their second fist. The obvious solution here is to give ODD to both hands for 1H users instead of confining it to the main hand. The same should be done for Mythic 1H Aftermath level 3s, as it is a similar problem.

The second big issues with Empyreans (and Mythics, I think) are that 300TP Aftermaths do not overwrite themselves. 100TP overwrites 100TP. 200TP overwrites 100TP. 300TP overwrites 100 or 200TP, but 300TP doesn't overwrite 300TP. Assuming someone wants to keep an activated level 3 Aftermath, they need to start TPing up to 300TP before their aftermath wears off. One or two lucky Triple Attacks with a 2H Empyrean or Mythic can put you at 300TP early and waiting for your aftermath to wear off so you can reapply it. It would be easier if you could just WS as soon as you get 300TP and reset the timer like you can for 100TP. I can't imagine this would be hard to fix, and would allow for smoother gameplay.

My final issue is with multiple aftermaths at once. There's about one (quasi-)practical application of this, and that's Mythic GKT with Relic bow. I know someone with both, and he can't have both Aftermaths active at once despite being able to equip both weapons at once and use both weaponskills. Why limit it?

A good place to start is fixing what's currently wrong w/ them.

After that, I'm not asking for anything specific. It seems vague because it's open ended. Each relic, mythic, and emp have an aftermath. Mythics enhance JAs and/or job traits etc and have stats. Relics enhance things (like crit hit rate, or counter) and some have stats (or just multiple things they enhance). Emps just have stats. They should get something extra, just as relics and mythics have.

[Rambus]

Not really. 100 tp = 10%? Triple procs are 5% on mandau, spharai, etc, which is the same as getting double damage 10% of the time and no ws is required for that and it's all the time, not for a limited amount of time.

K

it should be 100 tp 5%, 200 tp 10% 300 TP 15% then

not like it is hard to get tp every 30 seconds to keep it up

has to be joke thread.....

[Cream_Soda]

it should be 100 tp 5%, 200 tp 10% 300 TP 15% then

And what are you basing this on?

If it were going to be such a small percent, should just be on perma, lol. Same as with the relics.

[Michaeluk]

Not really. 100 tp = 10%? Triple procs are 5% on mandau, spharai, etc, which is the same as getting double damage 10% of the time and no ws is required for that and it's all the time, not for a limited amount of time.

2 hand weapons don't get triple procs, something like 6-8% double proc isn't it. What i said above is what they should be nerfed down to, not like it matters empyreans currently get 30,40,50% odd and yet you feel they need buffing maybe that car accident you were in a while back affected your brain slightly.

[Cream_Soda]

not like it is hard to get tp every 30 seconds to keep it up

It is when you're avoiding ruby lights

[Insaniac]

5% is an exaggeration. It's more like 3-4%. It's also a different type of triple damage. Mandau triple damage seems to triple the base damage of your weapon or something along those lines. Emp ODD is a direct 2x multiplier of the damage you would have done. Also the Relic damage increase can only proc on the first swing of any attack round. For example the 2nd and 3rd attacks of a triple attack can not gain the mandau damage bonus while an emp could proc on all 3 swings.

The unfortunate thing about this discussion is that very few players have both a relic and an empyrean. Being one of those people I feel I have a certain understanding and I'm more trying to enlighten than I am trying to debate.

[Byrth]

Byrth, I do agree with you on overwriting aftermaths. Even though it does add a new dimension to using the weapon it's more annoying than anything. ODD on your offhand I can't agree with though. You are dual wielding for the insane damage increase from the delay reduction already. It's a trade off. Sure 2Hs get the ODD on all hits but they also have 20-30% less delay reduction in most situations. There's also the potential stat increases from your offhand like Triple att +3% or Waltz potency or w/e. If you want ODD on all hits then you have to give up your DW delay and sub a shield =)

2H Empyreans (like Ukon) also WS harder due to their higher base damage, which makes up a lot of ground. This is less true inside abyssea than it will be outside. 1H weapons have always had the DPS advantage, and 2H weapons make up the difference with much stronger WSs. Denying 1H weapons OADD on the offhand makes the Empyrean Aftermath that much less attractive. If Rudra's gave 30% ODD to both hands, I'd be using it over Dancing Edge outside of Abyssea. As it is, Dancing Edge is better for my overall damage.

This is all considering a WS at 100TP which for SAM of all jobs doesn't happen a lot. Sekkanoki is an Auto 200tp WS, conserve TP, Meditate, DAs, TAs, Ikishoten procs, Moonshade earring all lean in Fudo's favor and come into play quite often.

Ah yeah. It loses even at 100TP due to the 15 STR, but it gets crushed with Moonshade and stuff.

[Rambus]

And what are you basing this on?

If it were going to be such a small percent, should just be on perma, lol. Same as with the relics.

your own quote, can't you see?

Not really. 100 tp = 10%? Triple procs are 5% on mandau, spharai, etc, which is the same as getting double damage 10% of the time and no ws is required for that and it's all the time, not for a limited amount of time.

You are being too vauge you are not offering real fixes , are you sure you are not doing this as bait?

what is current ODD rate on emp?

[Cream_Soda]

2 hand weapons don't get triple procs, something like 6-8% double proc isn't it. What i said above is what they should be nerfed down to, not like it matters empyreans currently get 30,40,50% odd and yet you feel they need buffing maybe that car accident you were in a while back affected your brain slightly.

Well, did you see me post a 2handed weapon when I was naming things?

But if you want to put it that way, they could even it out and keep the double damage procs on the 2handed weapons ODD for emps and change the ODD to OTD (triple damage) for non 2handers.

Great idea.