Shaper's Shawl - Why?

[Triffle]

I think they added six of the desperately needed skill up items. They're called Macarons and Rusks, made via cooking.
•Sugar Rusk (46) Minor boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.
•Chocolate Rusk (66) Moderate boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.
•Coconut Rusk (86) Significant boost to HQ rate & reduces mats lost from failed synthesis.

•Cherry Macaron (36) Minor boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.
•Coffee Macaron (56) Moderate boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.
•Kitron Macaron (76) Significant boost to skill ups & reduces failed synthesis attempts.

All of these last 30 minutes each.

All you need is Patissier which costs 8k GP and the skill level. Everything except the Kitron for the Kitron Macarons can be bought in NPC shops for a hundred gil or so. Now all you need is the level for it which you can get in a day or two for virtually no loss of gil.

You're welcome.

[Sotek]

Three of those have nothing to do with skill up and I'd wager the remaining three are hardly a significant boost. Though when I'm complaint is that such skill up items shouldn't be obtained by a single profession, I do have to wonder why you think moving the argument to Cooking would work.

This cape still doesn't belong under Fishing and it never will. Pointing out macarons doesn't counter a single point that has been made in the entirety of this thread.

[Triffle]

Three of those have nothing to do with skill up and I'd wager the remaining three are hardly a significant boost.

Why do you think the cape gives a significant boost? I'd wager it gives about the same boost as the Cherry Macaron minus the bonus of having less mats lost.

I do have to wonder why you think moving the argument to Cooking would work.

Something to help with skill up rates was desperately needed.

^ Because you said this.

Turns out they added those already, as I've already mentioned.

[Sotek]

And macarons have been in the game for a while, they are almost completely irrelevant.

Why do you think the cape gives a significant boost? I'd wager it gives about the same boost as the Cherry Macaron minus the bonus of having less mats lost.

Because it's hard to obtain hurhur

No. I know why it gives a significant boost but you're completely deluded if you think only being reasonably obtainable by people still leveling Fishing is the only means to make this item hard to obtain. The macaron doesn't give a boost anywhere near as potent as this cape, nice to see you're ignorant of the bonus provided by both these items. This cape actually gives a significant bonus while Kitron macarons hardly give a noticeable increase.

If you have 110 Fishing, everything I've said about opportunity costs holds true and this cape is effectively a waste.
If you haven't leveled Fishing but would level it to obtain it, the same argument roughly applies.
If you hate Fishing and you're only reasonable way to obtain this is buying hundreds of Matsya, guess what this cape it?

Currently this cape only benefits you and you are seemingly completely blind to how biased you are because of that fact. Do tell me why it would be worse for Matsya to instead be used to obtain something that is both valuable and sellable? How is it a worse alternative for Matsya to become a new source of income for Fishers and for crafters to obtain this cape through reasonable means? Fishers would be happy, crafters would be happy. Seemingly the only reason you're against such a suggestion is because you're in a favorable position to obtain this cape now which lets you go "hurhur u mad u no lv fish".

[Triffle]

Just because something is hard to obtain, doesn't mean it is better than something that is easier to obtain. Why is it that you think that? Take some Empyrean and Mythic weapons. We can all agree that Mythic weapons are quite difficult to get, requiring numerous quests and hundreds of millions of gil. Empyreans are easy to get. Empyrean Armageddon gun is the best gun for Corsair while the Death Penalty falls short of it. 2 weeks versus what can take 2 years or more to make. That is one example out of hundreds.

Turns out you need actual facts when making arguments. Just because something is HUR HUR HUR harder to get doesn't mean it is infinitely better. Your arguments are falling short of the goal. Anywho, I'm done with this argument. Me and the hundreds of other fishermen will be happy when we get it. You can continue to whine about it all you want.

[Sotek]

So far I've seen reports of the cape bringing skill up rates to 40%~50% (60-100 is naturally 25%~33%, maybe same for 100-110), most I've seen macarons do is 35%~40%. I'd post facts but I'm pretty sure everyone else would contest to the fact that macarons are trash and this cape may actually do something. I doubt I even need to, since they probably stack in which case "macarons are irrelevant".

Nice of you to give up on the argument rather than actually attempt to counter a single argument I've put forwards. Can't explain why Matsya being worthwhile and crafters getting this somewhat reasonably would be a better alternative? Better pretend to be done with the argument and return to your "HURHUR I CAN GET THIS AND YOU CANT" posts, from start to finish your posts have been steeped in bias, nice going.

[Triffle]

Okay then, thanks for the facts. I have one last thing I might as well say to you that will end your arguments since my last few have already defeated most of yours.

You whine about how it doesn't come from a Synthesis craft. This actually makes perfect sense to do. Something that useful, were it to come from a synthesis craft, would definitely have to be in the range of level 100 to 110. If it wasn't, everyone and their mules could get it easily.

If it indeed were to come from level 100-110, which craft would get it? Last I checked each player can only have one Synthesis craft over 70. If for example it were to come from cloth craft, everyone who leveled other skills would get shafted. Logically it should be put into a craft that all players can level, no matter what levels they have in other crafts.

This leaves us only two crafts. Fishing and Synergy. Since the release of Synergy, it has been getting constant updates. Augments for a tonne of gear, new items to make such as the Chatoyant staff. It has been updated way too much as SE already saw.

This leaves us with fishing. It is a skill anyone can level, no matter what levels in other crafts people have. It hasn't had a good update in ages. Oooh congrats, we got like 5 new fish in past few years of which around only like 3 are useful for something. Matsya has been a troll fish in the fishing community for ages and we've been asking SE to make it so we can gut it. SE finally made it worthwhile to fish after so many years. It is the only logical choice.

You gave the idea that it should be by GP. That would be silly. This way everyone can easily get the item. GP items aren't challenging to get, they're just time consuming. The point of it is that it isn't required to get a craft up, it's just a nice addition to have via something that is actually challenging.

If your idea were to happen, I would demand SE to make an unlimited skill up item for fishing that you could get from GP. Instead we have something that can be difficult and something that not everyone can do. It's called the Fishing Contest and the Pelican Ring isn't even permanent. You ever try fishing up Liks or something similar for the contest? Sometimes it's not even accessible to the people doing fishing unless they buy the fish.

[Sotek]

You gave the idea that it should be by GP. That would be silly. This way everyone can easily get the item. GP items aren't challenging to get, they're just time consuming.

And Matsya gutting is the epitome of skillful gaming and in no way time consuming? Are you kidding me? It doesn't even require skill to gut Matsya, get Fishing to 30 and have 100M to buy the damn things, done. At least with Guild Points you'll probably have to craft the items yourself since nobody can sell a single item for Guild Points considering the required items at least vary. Matsya is exactly the same as Guild Points except, you know, any crafter can obtain Guild Points while gutting Matsya is practically a privilege held by very few.

And why shouldn't everyone be able to get this? The developers themselves have stated that it was meant to be on par with a hard NM, everyone in the game can make an attempt at NMs, very few people can make a reasonable attempt at this. Why the hell should a select few be entitled to this item? Your bias is showing again.

If they slapped this on Guild Points with a 500K cost I wouldn't complain, though plenty of people would. That is an achievable goal for any craft but some are certainly going to resent it, but at least it's possible for everyone this cape would be relevant for to obtain it. They could easily correlate a cost to it with Guild Points as well as the amount of time it would take to obtain rather than more ridiculous RNG bullshit that this game has been suffering from for the past year. Heck, I down right hate this suggestion but they could put it on GoV Chests as well like the Torques, then it truly is like a NM drop. I absolutely abhor that suggestion but it's a much better alternative than Matsya.

If your idea were to happen, I would demand SE to make an unlimited skill up item for fishing that you could get from GP. Instead we have something that can be difficult and something that not everyone can do. It's called the Fishing Contest and the Pelican Ring isn't even permanent.

And guess what? I wouldn't be against that. But hey, mention Pelican Ring if you like, that's obtained through Fishing for Fishing, just adds to my point if anything.

Matsya has been a troll fish in the fishing community for ages and we've been asking SE to make it so we can gut it. SE finally made it worthwhile to fish after so many years. It is the only logical choice.

You argued earlier that practically nobody buys Matsya for this cape, so Matysa is damn near worthless by that logic. Any Fisher who has no interest in crafting or has already capped their crafts (unlikely but possible) effectively has Matsya retaining its title as "troll fish", since they still have absolutely no purpose behind it. Again, your bias is showing.

This cape being obtained in this way benefits you and you alone and you see that as justification for it. You've still yet to argue why something better for Matsya wouldn't be a preferable alternative and your only argument against this being obtained through crafting is completely ridiculous. I hope you get the cape so you can come back with some childish "HURHUR I GOT THE CAPE QQ MOAR".

Heck, once you get the cape Matsya is effectively back where it was before the update. At least if they let you obtain something that had a viable market from it you could justify continually obtaining Matsya for a viable source of income. This cape on Matsya is nothing short of a waste for Fishing and a waste for crafting. So not only are you apparently incredibly biased, but apparently shortsighted as well. This cape coming from Matsya is so far from "the only logical choice" that I shouldn't even be humoring you with a response, they could have given Matsya something with a viable market and Fishers could have had an extra source of income, this cape could have come from Guild Points and it could have been extremely time consuming to make it rare but more than possible to obtain for everyone who wants it. That is the only logical choice and until you can counter that point your argument will hold absolutely no weight.

[Triffle]

That is one giant wall stating that you are too lazy to get a craft up as your only argument. It's not that you can't level it, it's that you don't feel like it. Oh well, no rewards for you! HUR HUR HUR. Guess only the elite few will be getting this Relic of Crafting. =)

[Sotek]

No, it's one giant wall depicting why you're dead wrong. Feel free to post absolutely nothing again instead of even attempting to counter a single point I've made, though it would be hilarious to hear your reasoning for why gutting Matsya isn't just a massive time sink and why it's the most skill intensive thing in this game.

Too lazy to get Fishing up? Right, because it offers one item I'd ever want which is not worth in any way shape or form the amount of time it would take to obtain going from 0 Fishing. I could cap several of my crafts (I don't even want to touch on how ridiculous obtaining several of these capes is) in the time it would take to get anywhere near to obtaining Matsya myself. Opportunity costs strike again, continue posting more ignorant comments, please.