[dev1115] Job Adjustments: Red Mage

[Lastranger]

@Lastranger

RDM has never EVER been an "enhancer" aka buffer job, ever. People got that idea stuck in their had back in 2003/2004 when it was BRD or RDM for "Refresh". RDM was actually shoved into the "Healer" role because they had Haste, Refresh and Cure IV and thus was useful for XP parties.

At 75 RDM's "buffs" were
Haste
Refresh
Protect
Shell
...

And now all of those are available as /RDM. Eventually SE introduced Phalanx II but at a vastly inferior level then Phalanx I.

So you can see that SE's idea of RDM is actually in line with what the job always did, RDM was never BRD, COR or WHM. The only AoE buffs RDM got was from /WHM barspells and now accession /SCH. RDM has always been about self buffing while casting enfeebling / nuking magic on the target while also casting cure spells on people.

As far as enhancing goes among pure mage jobs not including the main buff like brd/cor Rdm has the highest level enhancing magic at a B+ rank , sch is only one that come close with white arts giving it a same rank, whm is on the other hand is a C+ witch is way lower.

Also Rdm two highest magic tiers is Enfeebling A+ enhancing B+ , Whm two highest is healing A+ and Divne at A-
Following this it is among whm blm and rdm the one that stands out on enhancing magic.

Id dare to say Enhancing was more natural then healing on rdm although like all i too hate the idea of cycling single target spells.
Even Phalanx 2 goes against what u say, it was meant to be cast on others , hence Enhancing just like haste and refresh they are alll enhancing spells.

Why Se decided to give all aoe to whm has more to do with their idea of rdm should never have aoe not that whm is a better enhancer, yet for some reason who know's why we got diaga, guess they just forgot to remove it like flash.
Had rdm had the bar merit instead of whm from start it would greatly have outdone whm on that front.

But my mainpoint in the post was rdm should be a master of its aspects of whm/blm/war that it indeed outshines it on like enhancing/enfeebling and as for war it uses enspells instead of heavy 2 hand wepons so it should have been doing more through that.
Some might say its odd for a game that revolved for so many years around Party elementh to have job so locked to self enhancing as rdm is.

As for the hated area of rdm healer wich i feel like is what u fear coming back, no just no...
i feel the natural part of rdm role could revolve around sabotage as main elementh and secondary enhancing, but these should be posible to merit/gear/buff to reach a peak where they are indeed master of their own versions of said magic.
as soon as rdm got haste in old days u where designated haste job + refresher and enfeebler, if u had time to spare u might be allowed to mb.

refresh/haste was infact the most potent enhancing magic around before level raise and new gear magic etc added abundant mp, witch is why rdm/brd was so potent in lolbird pt and lolcrab pt, and only brd and rdm got it witch speaks volumes of what role they had.

My argument for Aoe now is that aproaching 75 and after cap raise cycles have gotten bigger and keeping gain( if allowed on other targets) haste/ refresh 2 etc on 4-5 people + barspell would make rdm play one ofthe heavyiest button mashing jobs in game, it's not about stealing whm job, it is about become the mage we always was supposed to be and utilizing the magic skills we are supreme in, actually i think rdm should have gotten A- in enhancing after sch came out.

However the main focus i want Se to focus on is fixing Enfeebling wich is Rdm no 1 skill but i still maintain rdm is indeed a buff job but it was only ever meant to be support job with whm/blm in group set's not main heal or main nuke nor main physical DD.

[Kuvo]

In short I just want to see RDM be usefull again. I'm not sure adding a whole list of new spells is the "be all, end all" answer but i would greatly welcome new enfeeble spells. What SE needs to do is remove mob immunity to enfeebling spells and make self buff spells that we have as target buff spells. I'm not even asking for party but AoE but just as long as we can cast enhancing magic on others would be a major turn around for RDM in parties again. Just imagine with RDMs ability to enfeeble and then enhance party members with single target bar spells (based off enhancing skill) could be higher then whm buff, single target gain spell with a higher value then whm, and so on...this would make rdm a value to the game again.

I know all the whms would hate that a support job can out enhance them but given they get the AoE spells and an obvious boost in healing over us this wouldn't out balance the game at all.

Even if SE would increase our refresh potency with RDM as main job to like double what it is now wouldn't be a game breaker but it would also increase our value even further. Inside abyssea it wouldn't matter much but now with the game pulling away from abyssea and the god like atmas, these may be good and simple adjustments SE can make. But until that time... switching my main from RDM to anything else seems to be the way i'm taking it. Also because of their lack of attention to RDM i've been put off by this game more and more so i've been playing other games. Way to go SE.

[Duelle]

Can you please bring this back to the devs. RDM's tier II merits DO NEED UPDATING. Specifically Dia / Bio / Phalanx II need their duration extended to max and have the rest do potency.

Or just release them as scrolls and make the merits raise potency instead. There problem fixed.

If we're gonna make the merit spells scroll spells, then I want new actual merits over potency tweaks.

RDM has never EVER been an "enhancer" aka buffer job, ever. People got that idea stuck in their had back in 2003/2004 when it was BRD or RDM for "Refresh". RDM was actually shoved into the "Healer" role because they had Haste, Refresh and Cure IV and thus was useful for XP parties.

.....

So you can see that SE's idea of RDM is actually in line with what the job always did, RDM was never BRD, COR or WHM. The only AoE buffs RDM got was from /WHM barspells and now accession /SCH. RDM has always been about self buffing while casting enfeebling / nuking magic on the target while also casting cure spells on people.

Agreed.

Some might say its odd for a game that revolved for so many years around Party elementh to have job so locked to self enhancing as rdm is.

Logical progression suggests that as the RDM reached higher levels, they would get access to "shortcut" spells to decrease their casting load and make them as a whole more efficient when self-buffing. That never came to be between what happened to RDMs in TAU, getting trolled with Rainemard in WotG, and our AF3 set being mage stats.

[saevel]

@Lastranger

RDM's have C skill in Healing Magic, yet for years RDM was considered a "main healer". WHM/SCH has the same Enhancing Magic as RDM, and SCH can get A-. Neither COR nor BRD have any Enhancing Magic skill, yet their buffs are stronger then anything a WAR / MNK / SAM can dream of. DRK's have retardidly low club skill, yet for years club was regarded as their best "end game" weapon. If it's anything we've learned in 10 years of FFXI, skill level means nothing.

So I'll repeat it again, RDM isn't now a buffing job, RDM wasn't a buffing job in 2007, it wasn't a buffing job in 2004 nor was it a buffing job in 2003 when I started playing. To start expecting RDM to be treated as a buffing job now shows how little you actually know about the job. SE's statement about RDM only receiving self-buffs is in line with what RDM has had since it's creation in 2002 and while SE could radically change the job tomorrow, I'll bet money they won't. A RDM that had aoe buffs would be called SCH, WHM or BRD, not RDM.

[Rezeak]

@Lastranger

RDM has never EVER been an "enhancer" aka buffer job, ever. People got that idea stuck in their had back in 2003/2004 when it was BRD or RDM for "Refresh". RDM was actually shoved into the "Healer" role because they had Haste, Refresh and Cure IV and thus was useful for XP parties.

At 75 RDM's "buffs" were
Haste
Refresh
Protect
Shell
...

And now all of those are available as /RDM. Eventually SE introduced Phalanx II but at a vastly inferior level then Phalanx I.

So you can see that SE's idea of RDM is actually in line with what the job always did, RDM was never BRD, COR or WHM. The only AoE buffs RDM got was from /WHM barspells and now accession /SCH. RDM has always been about self buffing while casting enfeebling / nuking magic on the target while also casting cure spells on people.

LOL

Back in the 75 days

in exp people invited RDM over WHM cause there had Haste and Refresh which are BUFFs.... btw i main healed merits on bird as COR sooooo COR ISN'T A BUFFER by ur logic

in endgame people used RDMs because of Refresh for WHM and PLD it was vital and therefore it was a buffer job i could explain further but you thought RDM is about NUKING more than buffing others with refresh/haste/phalnx lol please RDM couldn't nuke there way out of a paper bag in endgame.
My ideas to bring RDM back "Exclusive buffs"

Finalskin (Stoneskin II)
It;s basically a 500 dmg stoneskin that can be AoEed w/ Accession or single targeted in party that only takes DMG once a person reaches 1 HP (stacks with normal Stoneskin)

Decoy
simple a buff that is single target that will negate Death via Doom or the effect Death

Goading
Gives a 10% Enmity Multiplier that breaks hate cap.

(spells can be balanced by long recasts)

As for enfeebles Dia III alone is epic when used but one spell i'd add is ....

Bypass
Removes all DMG resistance for 60 secs (NMs will not resist but will have an enhanced resistance for 4-5 mins afterwards)

if they added any of those RDM would be back in the game

[saevel]

See, non RDM's making assumptions about RDM.

Here let me repeat myself

At 75 RDM's "buffs" were
Haste
Refresh
Protect
Shell
...

That's it, and the two important ones are both accessible as /RDM. A BRD/RDM can give all the buffs a RDM does plus their own aoe buffs that are vastly superior. A COR/RDM can do the same along with dealing damage from the back.

[Lastranger]

See, non RDM's making assumptions about RDM.

Here let me repeat myself



That's it, and the two important ones are both accessible as /RDM. A BRD/RDM can give all the buffs a RDM does plus their own aoe buffs that are vastly superior. A COR/RDM can do the same along with dealing damage from the back.

sry for long delay answer.

First of im not saying RDM is buff only like brd or cor ( besides brd do get loads of specific skill for their song powering them up, in a way its their version of enhancing skill for instruments/song )

And Rdm was never ever good at healing, its in fact a lesser skill just like enhancing is a lesser skill on whm meaning whm are not a good enhancer.
Back when exp party was the thing at low levels this was very evident from the fact that a rdm doing main heal in at level 10 would just suck flatt out, at best their healing was supliment to whm and this was true in many low to mid levels party, u might accept a smn + rdm shared main heal but only if whm was not availible coz it usally meant slow exp or risk of fdeaths due to lack of proper healing power for the level.


It wasnt until Refresh/convert came around at higher levels combined with rdm native FC that rdm was abused as that since they had less downtime then whm due to abundant mp, their heals where still second or even third rate compared to a whm but people did it because it meant u could combine 4 DD with a brd and rdm for fast pace kill ( btw i remember this was done also before toau on crabs etc, but Toau really increased on killsspeed and lowered need for high skill/gear, btw brd + smn also was used this way, but 2-3 off the DD would have Nin sub)

Of the original 6 jobs there was 3 main mages and this was my point there are a total of 6 magic skill catagorys these had, off these 6 whm excelled at healing and had potent Divine magic, Blm excelled at Elemental magic and had potend dark magic.
But rdm that was a mix of these 2 + war ( also of the 6 original job's) Had the highest enfeebling skill from dark magic side and highest enhancing skill from white magic side while healing/nuking was third rate skill.

even before sch came around rdm could do phalnx 2 in 75 endgame stuff on tank.


after sch was released it changed the magic landscape due to book's ability to gain b skills in said magic's even subbed and the fact that Se just gave sch a ability to aoe stuff rdm had never been allowed to like stoneskin etc, but that dosnt change the fact that rdm is indeed a enhancer although much of the history most of our spells where done single self only and rest was splitt up between whm getting AOE version even though they had lower skill in enhancing and smn getting the rest of the AOE stuff like hastega stoneskinra etc.

But il repeat myself, for level 60+ stuff SE should have let rdm get aoe of the spells they where allowed to cast on others, and with advent of sch they should have redone a lot of the single target spells to just ra series as well as given rdm the aoe versions of enfeebles that they indeed are masters of, or do u thin enfeebles should never be given as aoe either on rdm?


However i think we could argue back and forth about this and never agrea or get anywhere, my wish is we could unite to bring a change to current RDM into the 3 roles we all want to see wether u are melee pro, nuke/enfeeb pro or enhancing/support supporter.
the endgoal im talking about is allowing rdm to take on the roles we want of the 3 job's it embodies in its own uniqe way.

Btw just out of curiousness if rdm did get hastega stoneskinra etc with still be against it ? or is your no to all this a protest in fear of them not working on the other aspects if they do ?

[Llana_Virren]

Honestly? Take Tier II enfeebles out of Merit Category 2 and allow us to learn the spells with scrolls.

Let the merits increase potency/accuracy, or unlock AOE versions of existing spells.

Buffs like Brave (ATK+ACC up), Faith (MATK+MACC up) and Debuffs like Wait (a short-term Amnesia) or Confuse would be an interesting concept.

Ultimately, if RDM is going to have spells like Temper, they shouldn't be self-cast only.
Or, Merit Category 3 should allow us to unlock AOE versions. (Temper, Enspell, Haste, Refresh, Phalanx, for example).

[ManaKing]

Nova : single target Multihit firebased spell, doing 2-8 hit. amount of hit depends on enfeebling skill amount dmg on element skill, making it a balance game for Rdm to get most out of the spell.

Good Idea. You could also...you know let spells double attack based on double attack rate...TEMPER FTW!!! (Including Cures)

[saevel]

Good Idea. You could also...you know let spells double attack based on double attack rate...TEMPER FTW!!! (Including Cures)

Well other games do allow crits on healing / damage spells along with double casts.

Honestly the mistake the devs made, the biggest one anyhow, is that after 75 they didn't scale our HP. So now we've got level 99 players with only a little bit more HP then at 75 but fighting monsters that deal double the damage we did at 75. To make matters worse the enmity system is balanced for level 60 and thus there is no such thing as tanking anymore. Those two combined with monsters using AoE's for EVERYTHING means every fight is just another zerg, how fast can you kill it before it kills you.